Quote :

"Let's get one thing straight here, there never even should have been a war. This whole mess got started when Toshiba walked away from the negotiating table because Blu-ray wasn't going to be using the disc structure Toshiba patented for DVD. Hell, they originally wanted to use the same old red laser too, but realized it wouldn't give them enough storage. So, they decided to go up against Sony, Philips, Matsushita, and the rest of the CE industry with only half-assed backing by Microsoft and meager studio support. "

I hardly think you can blame Toshiba for starting a war when it they were both a) first to market and b) actually came to market without rushing their specifications as the BDA admitted they did.

2/20/2008 2:38:46 PM

^

2/20/2008 2:42:22 PM

^^

2/20/2008 2:53:08 PM

But they did start the war. They were the only major CE not on board with Blu-ray, and were the ones who stopped negotiations to go launch HD DVD. That's like saying Japan didn't start World War II because they attacked first.

And don't tell me Toshiba didn't rush HD DVD. The first players launched without 1080p, support for lossless audio codecs, and took over a minute to load. Seriously, this revisionist history is getting out of hand. The first Blu-ray players launched were far more capable then the first HD DVD players, they just launched later.

2/20/2008 2:58:05 PM

Quote :

"That's like saying Japan didn't start World War II because they attacked first."

Yeah, dude. It's exactly the same as that.

2/20/2008 3:05:46 PM

^^ of course they launched later...did you SEE the first wave of blu-ray? it looked like absolute shit...what would you call it if not rushing?

2/20/2008 3:12:46 PM

SWEET. I was wondering when these guys would get into it:

http://www.avrev.com/news/0108/03.marantzbd226.shtml
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/hands-on-with-the-marantzs-first-blu-ray-player-the-bd8002/

It...will be...auditioned.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 3:45 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2008 3:44:27 PM

OH BOY! I can't wait to spend two months rent on it !!!

2/20/2008 7:15:24 PM

Wow! Some of you are complete idiots! Impressive! How did you manage to get into NCSU?

2/20/2008 7:18:17 PM

wut?

2/20/2008 7:28:33 PM

^^^ Wait'll you graduate. Life gets much better w/ a job.

2/20/2008 8:08:27 PM

Uh, I have a job. Just not a high paying one.

2/20/2008 8:13:04 PM

This from NAD's website:

Quote :

"Q: When will NAD come out with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players? A: The first mechanisms and chipsets to support Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are just emerging. This early state of development is reflected in the first players on the market which do not fully support the new formats features. NAD is watching this technology very closely and we will move forward with DVD players that support Blu-Ray and HD-DVD when the timing is right. "

2/20/2008 8:22:00 PM

explain that for me


What is NAD and what does that really mean?

2/20/2008 8:23:08 PM

NAD is a reputable hi fi A/V brand. They've not started development on a Blu Ray solution yet. Just it was worth noting in this particular thread.

2/20/2008 8:24:57 PM

lol, if they're high quality (a.k.a. expensive) there might be a reason I haven't heard of them.

2/20/2008 8:26:03 PM

NAD is very conservative when it comes to new technologies, but everything they release is upgradeable. That being said, I will soon be investing NAD's T175 processor and T975 amp.

2/20/2008 8:35:59 PM

^ you seem to be that rarest of TWW residents: the educated one. Do you have a Blu Ray player, perchance? If so, your thoughts?

2/20/2008 8:51:02 PM

You probably meant to put an extra "^" on that.


I'll forgive you for now. And no I don't have a BR player, but I'll probably get one of the Samsung dual format players once 2.0 firmware comes out.

2/20/2008 9:03:47 PM

Really, you think he wasn't asking the person who actually seemed to know something about NAD's product line instead of you- who probably thought it was some kind of hair removal product?

2/20/2008 10:24:07 PM

Your sarcasm sensor busted?

2/20/2008 10:29:07 PM

^^^^
If you're talking to me, yes I do have a Blu-Ray player. But the thing is that I am a video game critic, so my Blu-Ray player is in the form of the PS3.

At first I was a little turned off by the fact that my console was going to be my primary Blu-Ray player; but then I started looking at current players. The PS3 offers all the features I could want or need for the lowest price.

It is fully upgradeable, so it will handle profile 2.0 and BD Live. It also processes DTS-HD and TrueHD. I can't think of anything that I will ever need out of a Blu-Ray player that the PS3 can't accomplish. The only drawback is the Bluetooth remote. I mean, I've got a shit ton of remotes anyway, so one more doesn't hurt me; but I'd like to eventually upgrade to one of those mammoth universal remotes and the Sony Bluetooth remote obviously won't fit into that scheme.

I guess you can get some kind of IR dongle for the PS3, but that's something I've never played with.

I got the 40GB PS3 for $400. It lacks the 3,000,000 USB ports, but everything is wireless now; so why the fuck do I need that? I upgraded the HDD to 120GB (easily) and now I have a beautiful system that is capable of playing Blu-Ray movies, playing (shitty) games, Folding@home and is ready for all my DVR needs if PlayTV ever comes to the United States.

The long and the short of it is to look at the PS3 for its value. Ignore the proprietary games, because they suck at this point. But look at it as a Blu-Ray player. It's upgradeable. It's full featured. And it's comparatively cheap. Why not?

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 10:43 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2008 10:42:52 PM

AMENDMENT:

****
Apparently the PS3 does not process DTS-MA. So your best bet if you are holding off b/c of the lack of DTS-MA would be to wait for the Marantz BD8002 ($2,100) or Panasonic BMP-BD50 ($499?).
****

Here's a handy chart:
http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

Note that I stand by that the PS3 is upgradeable and will therefore reflect profile 2.0 and BD Live.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2008 10:59:22 PM

How can they fit all the game console features into it for cheaper than the stand alone?

2/20/2008 11:04:22 PM

It does lack DTS-MA, which is huge for some people -- idk. I've read that Sony just breaks even on the 40GB PS3s. So I'm sure that their standalone players make them $texas.

2/20/2008 11:06:27 PM

What is so special about that Marantz player that makes it worth $2100? All you need is a $400 amp that will decode DTS-MA, and any number of cheaper players will suffice.

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR605-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000OBLARC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1203569389&sr=8-3

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 11:50 PM. Reason : ,]

2/20/2008 11:48:11 PM

Quote :

"How can they fit all the game console features into it for cheaper than the stand alone?"

Probably because the PS3 has no game features. They forgot that part during their rush to production. But don't worry...its coming with an online update.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 11:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2008 11:52:01 PM

I'm not claiming (read my previous posts) that the PS3 is a top-notch game system. It is a great Blu-ray player for a low price (comparatively).

As for the Onkyo TX-605 -- that's a great standalone receiver, but I'd probably consider the TX-SR875 or the Intergra DTC-9.8 (http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTC-9.8&class=Separates&p=i) for a better all-in-one.

But really, if I'm sweating over high definition audio, I'm not going to put all my eggs in the basket of a receiver. If you're really going to enjoy the difference between DTS and DTS-HD, roll with separates; like the NAD T175/975 combo.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 12:05 AM. Reason : ]

2/21/2008 12:01:35 AM

My point was that you don't need to spend $2000 on that player to get DTS-MA.

2/21/2008 12:39:24 AM

oh, definitely not. The Panasonic is $499 and passes though DTS-MA. I guess Marantz just banks on the high-end customers to recognize their name, see the price tag and think that all means the best.

2/21/2008 12:45:56 AM

^That's basically it.

^^You don't need to spend any money on a player with DTS-MA. You will get the same audio bit-for-bit as you would if the disk held the audio in Uncompressed PCM. You may not have been in this thread, it was discussed somewhere between pages 25 and 35 IIRC... Read this for a refresher: High-Def FAQ: Blu-ray and HD DVD Audio Explained.

2/21/2008 2:00:12 AM

^ Helpful FAQ. Good to know there's still wide support for multi-channel analog, rather than mere HDMI or optical.

2/21/2008 8:53:51 AM

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/02/21/lessons-from-the-death-of-hd-dvd/

I don't really agree with his anti-MS agenda as a whole, but he does raise some pretty valid points on MS's current position in the market how the rest of the industry views them. Decent read that I'm sure will piss off a lot of people.

2/22/2008 9:42:19 AM

It's a shame if what he says about content producers moving more towards h264 is true. VC-1 seems to require way less processor to play not to mention is more widely available than h264 players.

2/22/2008 10:31:26 AM

An article that blatantly supports sony while simultaneously blasts Microsoft for being proprietary highlights how bias the writer is. Sony? Champion of open standards? Really?

Ok.

2/22/2008 12:35:03 PM

You must admit though... in every industry that Microsoft has a hand in, it has a habit of turning friends into enemies.

2/22/2008 2:39:59 PM

They're aggressive and arrogant no doubt, but uhh so is Sony.

In fact, Sony and MS are about par as far as which hates consumers more.

2/22/2008 3:19:05 PM

No luck yet on a BR player that also supports SACD and DVD-A. Probably have to wait on Denon for that.

2/22/2008 5:12:06 PM

Quote :

"How can they fit all the game console features into it for cheaper than the stand alone?"

Waiting...

2/22/2008 6:24:04 PM

Get ready to get a link from philihp about economies of scale, which isn't overly relevant. Everyone else, will of course ignore the question.

2/22/2008 6:56:14 PM

Isn't the Samsung BD-P1400 the cheapest Blu-ray player?

2/22/2008 7:53:44 PM

Maybe, but you really can't put a price on such features as "completely outdated" and "potentially involved in a class action lawsuit".

2/22/2008 8:24:31 PM

Quote :

"How can they fit all the game console features into it for cheaper than the stand alone?"

I would guess that they still lose a substantial amount of money on the PS3 console in hopes to both make up for it in game profits and to help push the blu-ray format. The stand alone players, however, HAVE to make a profit, and they probably try to make enough to help offset the losses from the PS3.

2/22/2008 8:48:05 PM

^^Oh, okay, the PS3 is the cheapest player as long as we don't consider that one player you don't like.

^You are entirely correct, PS3s cost about $400 to make. The question they've been dancing around is, "Is what Sony did an ethical business practice?"

2/22/2008 9:26:21 PM

Quote :

"How can they fit all the game console features into it for cheaper than the stand alone?"

Most stand alone players have vastly superior circuitry, transports, and decoders. They also support discrete multi-channel audio. Quality = $.

2/23/2008 12:18:30 AM

Quote :

"^^Oh, okay, the PS3 is the cheapest player as long as we don't consider that one player you don't like."

Are you fucking kidding me? Yes, the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market right now is the BD-P1400 however it's made by a company that is currently being faced with a class action lawsuit (of which this player may be involved) for making Blu-ray players that DO NOT PLAY NEWER BLU-RAY DISCS and on top of that it DOES NOT IMPLEMENT ANY OF THE NEW BLU-RAY FEATURES.

So yes, I guess if your game plan is to play the original BD Fifth Element disc, then surely it's a fine choice; however, if you want to play anything released within the last couple of months, it goes from being the "cheapest Blu-ray player out" to the "most expensive BD branded paperweight".

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : Seriously, you've got to be an absolute moron.]

2/23/2008 1:20:55 PM

Quote :

"No luck yet on a BR player that also supports SACD and DVD-A. Probably have to wait on Denon for that."

Are you trying to be funny or do you really have no remote idea about either of those technologies.

2/23/2008 1:47:58 PM

^^You're so excitable...

I'm not sure its accurate to say it won't play newer discs. Do you have a source for that? My player has only failed to play one movie, Live Free or Die, and that was before the latest firmware update which is supposed to allow newer discs to be played. It played Across the Universe just fine the other day.

I would have to agree with you in general, though. The player is one of the worst pieces of technology I've owned in a long time (second only to a TWC DVR) and the only reason I would recommend it is if you really want to watch Blu-rays for the lowest price.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 1:55 PM. Reason : ^]

2/23/2008 1:55:03 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S300-1080p-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B000PALZE0/ref=pd_ts_e_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Cheaper than a PS3.

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-Aquos-BDHP20U-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B000W8SSXQ/ref=pd_ts_e_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Cheaper than a PS3.

Honestly, how much longer are we going to have to put up with the sour grapes? By the way, speaking of paper weights, how's that HD-A2 and 360 HD DVD drive treating you?

2/23/2008 2:01:36 PM

I'm going to buy an HD-DVD player this weekend

2/23/2008 2:01:42 PM