10/15/2014 10:50:19 AM

Those in the fanbase craving for that first ACC win(OMG DOEREN JUST WIN ONE ACC GAME FFS!!!11), do you really think it would make a difference if we win 0, 1 or 2 ACC games this season? We would still be bottom rung of the ACC regardless. Let the guy build the program through solid recruiting. He may fail miserably, but his ceiling is very high. It's not like the 7-8 win seasons were thoroughly enjoyable anyway. Our school can afford to show him patience coz we're a mediocre program historically and can afford a couple of 3-9 seasons if it means we get a solid coach. The only way our program can move to the next level is if we get a Diamond in the rough Frank Beamer or Coach K(lol, jk) kinda guy. Hope Doeren is it.


[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 10:58 AM. Reason : nom saying?]

10/15/2014 10:56:39 AM

Quote :

"do you really think it would make a difference if we win 0, 1 or 2 ACC games this season?"

um... yes? lol

10/15/2014 11:26:22 AM

Quote :

". Let the guy build the program through solid recruiting. "

L MOTHER FUCKING OL

10/15/2014 11:53:11 AM

Yes very much. 0-8 is hard enough with how terrible the ACC is. If you want to show at least progress no one expects you to beat FSU or Clemson but you need to win some games like BC and Wake at home and maybe a road win at syracuse or UNC. If you go 0-8 again then you have a serious problem.

10/15/2014 11:55:00 AM

^^

Trust me, I'll LOL harder if he gets fired, but you gotta give him a chance mane...

10/15/2014 12:14:18 PM

^^
So you're OK to keep him if Wake is the only W we get here on?

10/15/2014 12:21:38 PM

Our sucking is tearing us apart!

10/15/2014 12:27:00 PM

It doesnt matter what he does if you fire him after year 2 you are dooming your program long term anyways. I believe he got a 5 year deal? If so it doesnt matter what he does he is gonna get at least 4. If the only game we win is wake at home then I will be very concerned that he may not be the guy that is correct. I have always pointed to next year as the year where I will make my decision personally as Brissett will be a senior and he will have a lot of his recruits in the system and with some playing time.

10/15/2014 12:29:16 PM

IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM ARE WINNING AND REBUILDING MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

10/15/2014 12:47:01 PM

uhhh, they often are in the first year or two

10/15/2014 12:54:23 PM

^^

Wouldn't really disagree with you, but the fact that we're the 3rd youngest team in FBS(?) should mean that is not the case.

Man, we all want microwaved results, me included, but rebuilding this team and winning is gonna take time( lol)


[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ]

10/15/2014 12:56:17 PM

Checklist

[x]Officials
[x]Lack of Talent
[x]Young Players
[ ]Wind

10/15/2014 1:02:33 PM

rawr rawr rawr

http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/story/1463418-analysis-how-young-is-the-wolfpack

10/15/2014 2:40:00 PM

The only thing Doeren has going for him right now is his youth.

10/15/2014 2:50:10 PM

^

Quote :

""Two years in a row I haven't had an ACC player on the preseason list," said Doeren. "It's going to take me time. At Kansas we had a bunch of freshmen playing on defense and four years later our defense was No. 1 in the nation." "

Tell 'em Coach!

10/15/2014 2:52:19 PM

some of the blind homerism on this board is comical.

10/15/2014 3:00:09 PM

Checklist

[x] Officials
[x] Lack of Talent
[x] Young Players
[ ] Wind
[ ] Critics?

10/15/2014 3:03:18 PM

Some of the bitching and moaning and use of all capital letters on this board is comical

10/15/2014 3:07:21 PM

Well we pulled in a DT 4 Star Recruit (42nd Nationally, 1st in NC) from a HS about 20 miles from me, Lincolnton High School's Darian Roseboro. This is the first 4 star recruit of this year and I just hope Doeren can continue to bring this type of talent in. I've seen this guy play and he looks like he has a good knowledge of the game with obvious raw talent.

You can see his highlight here: http://youtu.be/buH_NHW4Kac

It is 22 mins, but you get the gist after just a few minutes, hell this guy is even a decent ball carrier. However we have all seen great looking talent in HS, but jumping to D1 from a 2A school is always a question. However at least he is at a public school and not some BS academy like what we see with basketball. We all know where David Thompson came from and that school has a hell of an athletic program for a public school (Crest High School (3A)).

10/15/2014 5:15:22 PM

I just confused BrickTop with


I apologize BrickTop.

[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 6:52 PM. Reason : -]

10/15/2014 6:48:57 PM

I confused that picture of Patrick Swayze with Randy Orton.

10/15/2014 7:06:20 PM

hence the expression, "AS. GREEDY. AS A PIG!"

10/15/2014 7:23:55 PM

10/15/2014 8:59:56 PM

As of right now, he's not credible

We've lost 11 straight conference games under his "watch". Let's just toss out the 4 games with FSU and Clemson since they're great teams. So he's lost 7 straight winnable conference games against non-great opponents. And he hasn't been able to even go 1-6.

[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2014 9:09:45 PM

Quote :

"but yeah, think you gotta let him fail with his own guy like TOB did with glennon."

Yeah those 8-5 and 7-5 seasons were just awful.

Quote :

"It's not like the 7-8 win seasons were thoroughly enjoyable anyway."

Dick Sheridan did this and is a God to most NCSU fans.

[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 9:32 PM. Reason : But TOB was hated for them, so I don't really know]

10/15/2014 9:30:36 PM

If O'Brien would have gone multiple seasons averaging 7-8 wins a season, it would widely have been considered the best era of State football. Not only that, but the position would have been much more desirable as a school that was "ready to break through."

But our impatient fanbase wanted to fire him for a young new whippersnapper. Those same people are now telling the rest of us to be patient as this loser approaches the same number of games coached here at NCSU as he coached at NIU.

10/15/2014 10:34:05 PM

the 7-5 season with a senior NFL quarterback that included wins over a sub .500 Big East team, South Alabama, The Citadel and blowout losses to jaybee and a 4-8 Virginia team at home was pretty fucking terrible, yes

[Edited on October 15, 2014 at 11:07 PM. Reason : we can still get to 7 wins this year against wake, cuse and unc or a trash bowl team. still shit]

10/15/2014 11:07:02 PM

HAI GUISE, JUST HOLD UP

DOOREN IS REBUILDING, OK? HE CAN'T WIN ANY GAMES UNTIL HE'S REBUILT THE PROGRAM!!!!

10/15/2014 11:16:52 PM

Quote :

"senior NFL quarterback"

Wait the same one you constantly ripped to shreds? Who was bad TOB or Glennon? I get confused in your arguments.

10/15/2014 11:19:46 PM

People figured by firing TOB, the grass would be greener on the other side

Turns out the grass was placed inside a dumpster and set on fire

10/15/2014 11:21:11 PM

Remember last year when Pete Thomas and Brandon Mitchell were the reasons why we kept losing? And we were going to see improvement with Jacoby? What's the excuse going to be this year when we can't blame it all on the QB?

Funny how O'Brien gets no credit for putting two QBs into the NFL (and they're starters, no less). But Doeren totally gets a pass for making Jacoby look less impressive each successive week.

10/15/2014 11:29:25 PM

When you run off a great quarterback for a very good one on the basis that you have an extra year with the very good one, then it turns out that extra year wasn't anything special...

On the other hand, when you throw your entire team under the bus before the season by calling it "the year without jacoby" then the year(s) with jacoby aren't any good either,,,

10/15/2014 11:39:36 PM

I get the whole 'we're young' thing that Doeren keeps preaching because it is true. Difference is that that may be an excuse against FSU, but BC isn't FSU or Clemson or a team close to the top 25. Our defense didn't match up well with BC sure, but our offense should never have hit such a road block after those first 2 drives.

We keep Shadrach on the bench and give him 4 carries and keep trotting Creecy out there, and for some reason hardly ever target our most experienced WR with Underwood unless he's coming around on a jet sweep. Doeren can preach about inexperience, but our best/experienced skill players at RB and WR barely even touched the ball last week. That's 100% on Doeren.

10/16/2014 12:01:43 AM

Quote :

"We keep Shadrach on the bench and give him 4 carries and keep trotting Creecy out there, and for some reason hardly ever target our most experienced WR with Underwood unless he's coming around on a jet sweep. Doeren can preach about inexperience, but our best/experienced skill players at RB and WR barely even touched the ball last week. That's 100% on Doeren."

The first legit criticism to break through all the noise from the whiny little bitches. Thanks for the post!

10/16/2014 12:52:24 AM

There are a lot of whiny bitches in Sports Talk, for example people who freak out that the sky is falling if we miss a jump shot, or run the ball for negative yardage.

I wouldn't call complaining about the coach in charge of our longest conference losing streak in 122 years being a whiny bitch.

10/16/2014 1:23:50 AM

Yes the Shadrach thing is concerning to me. Clearly our best back. And Creecy's clearly our worst of the 3 RBs. It's frustrating to see Shad not get at least 15 touches/game.

Quote :

"People figured by firing TOB, the grass would be greener on the other side Turns out the grass was placed inside a dumpster and set on fire"

Firing TOB was the right move. Even now, after losing 11 straight conference games. It's still the right move. Feel free to argue that DD was the wrong guy to hire (given current results, you'd have a good argument). But just because DD is off to a poor start, doesn't mean we should've kept TOB around.

Similar to in basketball when Herb left. Sure Sid was shitty. But it didn't mean we (well, the majority of the fan base) wished Fowler had pulled out all the stops to keep Herb.

10/16/2014 8:18:36 AM

I think dmspack is saying that hiring DD/firing TOB are the same argument and that if you criticize DD you must still want TOB. He must think that TOB shouldn't have been fired.

10/16/2014 8:41:49 AM

lol fowler. the opposite of knowing how to conduct a coaching search.

10/16/2014 8:48:00 AM

Quote :

"I think dmspack is saying that hiring DD/firing TOB are the same argument and that if you criticize DD you must still want TOB. He must think that TOB shouldn't have been fired."

reading the last few pages, it certainly seems like that's what several people are saying

10/16/2014 8:54:28 AM

Quote :

"Firing TOB was the right move. Even now, after losing 11 straight conference games. It's still the right move. Feel free to argue that DD was the wrong guy to hire (given current results, you'd have a good argument). But just because DD is off to a poor start, doesn't mean we should've kept TOB around."

I think it's pretty silly to say firing Coach X was the right decision, even if you hire Coach Y afterwards and he sucks. Who is to say that keeping Coach X around another year or two wouldn't help you land Coach Z, who recruits = ballers? That's almost like saying "selling my house was the right move. Maybe I shouldn't have moved into a cardboard box, but selling my house was the right move."

I didn't expect the continued vitriol for TOB, especially since his replacement hasn't proven anything yet. When people are like FIRE HERB! FIRE SID! FIRE GOTT! I always ask who are you going to hire to take his place, since, you could easily do worse than what you had before.

[Edited on October 16, 2014 at 10:20 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2014 10:17:29 AM

I think people think that if we keep firing and hiring random coaches, there's a statistical probability that we'll stumble onto the next Nick Saban or Rick Pitino.

except with that strategy, we'd probably fire them before they ever got a chance to turn things around, and they'd go win their national titles elsewhere resulting in state fans demanding the firing of anyone that's part of the obvious conspiracy in our administration to suck at sports.

10/16/2014 11:22:22 AM

I'm still not committing one way or another on Doeren but I can certainly understand the frustration with what is going on of course.

And yes getting a few wins, while it wouldn't completely change our season, is so very important to the program and the fan base.

10/16/2014 11:38:35 AM

More scrolling on my phone made me realize my post was already said by someone else

[Edited on October 16, 2014 at 11:41 AM. Reason : phone posting is hard]

10/16/2014 11:39:33 AM

^^^^that's a fair point. Obviously, when making a move like that you have to consider what the replacement options realistically are.

But it's still fair to criticize DD and point out his shortcomings without constantly comparing him to TOB, right? Because if my memory serves me correctly most people on TWW (and State fans, as a whole) were pretty cool with firing TOB. It just seems inconsistent to me that many people wanted TOB gone...then once he's gone and his replacement is off to a bad start, people constantly say "TOB would be doing better with this team" or "how many more wins would TOB have?" or whatever

[Edited on October 16, 2014 at 11:45 AM. Reason : d]

10/16/2014 11:45:01 AM

I agree, TOB would be 6-1 right now.

10/16/2014 12:22:27 PM

^Are you kidding? TOB won with 2 and 3* recruits, hell we had a horrible OL and he was stashing 2 future NFL starting OL on his DL, and he put 2 QBS IN THE NFL! We'd easily be 7-0 and top 10.

10/16/2014 12:33:18 PM

Quote :

"It just seems inconsistent to me that many people wanted TOB gone...then once he's gone and his replacement is off to a bad start, people constantly say "TOB would be doing better with this team" or "how many more wins would TOB have?"

I did not think we should have fired O'Brien. I'll go on record with that. I don't think I'm alone, either. I thought it was wrong then, and I think it was the wrong decision now. I also think that very few people are going to come around and consider that it was a mistake, especially Yow. We're stuck with Doeren, because this is HER guy. But how do you fire a guy who turned NC State into a consistent 7-8 win team? If he were allowed to coach his bowl game last season, it's very likely that he would have gone his last three seasons with 9 wins, 8 wins, and 8 wins. I would have been happy letting him string together those types of seasons until his retirement. Can you imagine how enticing the NC State coaching vacancy would be if we had had 5 or 6 seasons of 7-9 win seasons in a row? I was majorly dissapointed when we lost to UVA, because I knew that the excuse to fire him was made right then and there, and that those with an itchy trigger finger were going to jump all over that opportunity.

Firing O'Brien completely undid all of the progress and strides that were made into making NC State football a solid football program. We decided to tear it down and build it back up from the foundation, instead of building on the foundation that was already poured. And we took a huge gamble on an unproven coach who was able to run through the mighty gauntlet of the MAC with Heisman finalist Jordan Lynch. Woooooowwwwww. They really showed Toledo, Buffalo, and Ball State what was up.

Now the argument for O'Brien was that he had reached his ceiling. If you think that 3 seasons of 7+ wins is enough of a sample size to rightfully determine if the coach can break through, then it's really hard for me to listen to you argue that Doeren needs 2 seasons to get ONE goddamn ACC victory.

The other argument is this: Doeren doesn't have any talent! They're soo young!

Look, at some point in the ACC, NC State is going to have to be able to beat Clemson and Florida State. We're not going to have more talent than them. We're going to have to win those games with less talent. And if this coaching staff can't string off one ACC victory in 1.5 years of play to a team with equal or more talent now, it's really hard for me to imagine that same staff competing for the ACC championship in the future, which will also require winning a game or two with inferior talent.

And that's why we hired the guy, right? We hired him to break the barrier that his predecessor supposedly couldn't break? Then he needs to show us, SOON, that he can coach his way into a conference win now with less talent in order for me to realistically believe that he can coach his way to a conference championship later (which will also be with less talent).

Because, if he can't do that, and people still support him while bashing the previous guy, then they're not looking at results, but just picking favorites. Doeren is young, so his ceiling is theoretically high, while O'Brien was old, and his 30 some odd years of coaching experience is somehow completely ignored.


[Edited on October 16, 2014 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2014 12:43:04 PM

TOB underachieved, plain and simple. That was his reputation before coming to State, too, so it was a safe bet that wasn't going to change.

The nine win season should've been 12-13 win season, but TOB couldn't beat an ECU team that finished with a losing record, a Clemson team that finished with a losing record, and a Maryland team we were leading 21-0.

8 wins with first year QB Glennon the following year was good, but we got dominated by a Wake team that finished with a losing record and a BC team that finished with four wins.

2012 was a milestone season for TOB. Despite his efforts to ensure otherwise, he got his first road division win when Maryland's kicker failed to convert the winning field goal as time expired. TOB's defense continued the trend of his previous defenses by giving up an unacceptable number of points, including 35 to Tennessee, 44 to Miami, 43 to UNC, 33 to a horrible UVA team at home, and 62 to Clemson.

You say you were pleased with TOB and he was making progress. I say he couldn't get through a season without stalling out, and that was never going to change, no matter what kind of team he had. If you continue to have head-scratching loss after head-scratching loss when your quarterbacks include Matt Ryan, Mike Glennon, and Russell fucking Wilson, you're going to do it your whole career. You're never going to win a championship, and you're doomed to play in second and third tier bowl games.

Sure, those last three years under TOB are better than anything we've seen under Doeren. I'm hopeful Doeren will still pan out. I gradually lose hope every week, and ultimately it may turn out he was a bad hire. But at least we got rid of TOB.

10/16/2014 1:27:21 PM

Quote :

"The nine win season should've been 12-13 win season"

C'mon, man.

Quote :

"Sure, those last three years under TOB are better than anything we've seen under Doeren. I'm hopeful Doeren will still pan out. I gradually lose hope every week, and ultimately it may turn out he was a bad hire. But at least we got rid of TOB."

In other words.....you just didn't like the guy.

10/16/2014 1:47:23 PM