Quote :

" "No luck yet on a BR player that also supports SACD and DVD-A. Probably have to wait on Denon for that." --- Are you trying to be funny or do you really have no remote idea about either of those technologies."

Neither. Why not just get to your point? I'm anxious to hear it.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2008 2:09:08 PM

Ah, I see what you did there. You're thinking in black and white. Samsung has some problems with the BD-P1200 model, therefore the BD-P1400 is also bad. The BD-P1400 is not the BD-P1200.

Quote :

"Maybe, but you really can't put a price on such features as "completely outdated" and "potentially involved in a class action lawsuit"."

First things first, please explain how the BD-P1400 is outdated. It was released 2007-11-05, and is one of the few players currently on the market to output HDMI 1.3a and DTS HD-MA (not that you need it).

2/23/2008 2:09:50 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure its accurate to say it won't play newer discs. Do you have a source for that? My player has only failed to play one movie, Live Free or Die, and that was before the latest firmware update which is supposed to allow newer discs to be played. It played Across the Universe just fine the other day. "

In reading reviews I've seen a lot of people having trouble with Live Free or Die Hard, in particular. Not to mention a number of issues with failed firmware flashes.

Quote :

"Cheaper than a PS3."

Yeah, awesome $19 savings on one of them. Meanwhile, wasn't it you pages ago that kept saying that sale prices weren't relevant because that's not the actual price of the player? Just checking.

Or maybe you should try making some more World War II comparisons.

Quote :

"Honestly, how much longer are we going to have to put up with the sour grapes? By the way, speaking of paper weights, how's that HD-A2 and 360 HD DVD drive treating you?"

Combined (even though I don't own the 360 drive), still cheaper than a Blu-ray player and still functional and not outdated within the HD DVD specs. Isn't that a novel concept? If only I could've spent $400-$600 for such a blessing!

You're not going to find me having any regret for spending $100 to watch high definition movies and own an upscaling DVD player. At the very least, no more shame than someone who spent $600 to use a game console with no games as a DVD player, or around that price for players that lack functionality or simply don't play discs.

Quote :

"Ah, I see what you did there. You're thinking in black and white. Samsung has some problems with the BD-P1200 model, therefore the BD-P1400 is also bad. The BD-P1400 is not the BD-P1200."

No, but people are still having issues with it.

In regards to how it's completely outdated, it's a 1.0 only player. Or am I incorrect that they've already announced two additional specifications called 1.1 and 2.0?

Meanwhile, there's this review with this awesome editors' note strapped onto it from a week ago:

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/samsung-bd-p1400/4505-6463_7-32514521.html?tag=sub

Quote :

"Editors' note: The rating of the BD-P1400 has been lowered since its initial publication to reflect the disc compatibility issues that have occurred since we reviewed it. While many of the issues were eventually fixed by firmware upgrades, the new rating reflects our decreased confidence, based on the company's delays in the past, that Samsung will offer timely firmware upgrades for newly released movies."

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2008 2:20:50 PM

Quote :

"In regards to how it's completely outdated, it's a 1.0 only player. Or am I incorrect that they've already announced two additional specifications called 1.1 and 2.0?"

These are backwards compatible. A disk with Bonus View (1.1) or a disk with BD-Live (2.0) will still play on a 1.0 player.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2008 2:26:35 PM

I honestly couldn't care less if every HD DVD disappeared off the shelves and was never seen again.

edit: Awww, philihp -- you edited your post because after going through all the trouble of getting those "no one is going to stock HD DVDs anymore" links, I told you I didn't give two shits.

How sweet of you

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2008 2:28:47 PM

You guys are arguing about the most retarded thing.

Home electronics is always a losing game.

A 299$ PS3 is a very good argument for upgrading to Blu Ray though, if the rumored price drop ever materializes.

2/23/2008 2:34:54 PM

Quote :

"Are you trying to be funny or do you really have no remote idea about either of those technologies.""

^ Well?

2/23/2008 2:39:11 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, awesome $19 savings on one of them. Meanwhile, wasn't it you pages ago that kept saying that sale prices weren't relevant because that's not the actual price of the player? Just checking. Or maybe you should try making some more World War II comparisons."

You asked for players around the price or cheaper than a PS3, I showed you a couple, and there are going to be dozens more in the next couple months. What exactly do you want here? $100 Blu-ray players? That's simply not going to happen. HD DVD players weren't even that cheap until the desperation price cuts after they already knew they were hawking a dead format off on ignorant consumers. Before that, feature comparable HD DVD players were only $50-100 cheaper than Blu-ray. DVD players were $700 in 1998, Blu-ray is already way more affordable than that. I'm sorry you picked the wrong format but the constant bickering is just getting sad.

Quote :

"You're not going to find me having any regret for spending $100 to watch high definition movies and own an upscaling DVD player. At the very least, no more shame than someone who spent $600 to use a game console with no games as a DVD player, or around that price for players that lack functionality or simply don't play discs."

Seriously? PS3 bashing that stopped being relavent 6 months ago? Try harder please.

2/23/2008 2:40:20 PM

I would love a $100 Blu-ray player. Might actually get me to buy one.

2/23/2008 2:47:09 PM

I'll assume SandSanta cleared up his own confusion.

Anyways, I'm naturally cautious of anything Pioneer, but their Elite line has always made a good impression on me. This one's worth checking out:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/Blu-rayDisc+DVD/Blu-rayDiscPlayers/ci.BDP-95FD.Kuro

2/23/2008 3:00:33 PM

Quote :

"A 299$ PS3 is a very good argument for upgrading to Blu Ray though, if the rumored price drop ever materializes."

I really want one with a 60gb hard drive though.....I would consider spending 600$ for it

laaaaawl

2/23/2008 6:27:18 PM

Wyloch

DVD-A and SACD are competing formats that both failed terribly and while Denon does love to cram useless shit into their hardware so they can charge retards more money, you actually probably won't be finding any significant content for either.

Research more next time.

2/23/2008 6:55:21 PM

I have a decent collection of SACDs. I enjoy them an incredible amount, and have enjoyed them for ~5 years now. While both formats will likely go to 0% production eventually, they currently still release new titles.

Denon added playback capability to their universal players (like mine) for those who do use the format (therefore rendering it not useless).

Additionally, I don't think Denon's goal there was as a marketing scam, as you say. There's lots of electronics companies that will do that (this thread has had some discussion along that line), but Denon isn't one of them.

The one thing you are correct about is that they failed as formats. The mass populace (>99.9%) do not perform dedicated home listening sessions, and therefore is pretty much satisfied with the mediocrity of CDs.

Not sure what "research" you meant. That I made the original post reflected the fact that I did search for any news on a universal solution, and did not find one. But thanks for playing.

Assume less next time.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 8:16 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2008 8:15:34 PM

You bought SACD's.

Thats what I refer to by asking you to do more research.

So you can avoid wasting money.

2/23/2008 8:19:43 PM

? I don't understand. I get tons of value from them. How is that a waste?

2/23/2008 8:21:38 PM

if it's not a waste to you, then it's not a waste.

I have 800+ DVDs. I'm pretty miffed at the idea of buying them again on Blu-Ray. But I would never consider my investment a waste because I have derived great enjoyment from my movies.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 9:11 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2008 9:01:42 PM

^ Bingo.

2/23/2008 9:10:59 PM

Its a waste because you can get lossless audio on the internet for free.

Its a waste because the vast majority of shit you'd want to actually own isn't even on either format and you're essentially listening to select tunes that don't particularly sound ecstatically better then their CD counterparts.

Ahh fuck it, if you think a DVD analogy actually works in this case then there's no point to even arguing.

2/24/2008 1:20:33 AM

So far, we haven't argued anything. You've simply made some erroneous statements, like:

Quote :

"Its a waste because you can get lossless audio on the internet for free"

Yes, you can. But that "lossless" content is only "lossless" for a certain encoding scheme, which is far inferior to that of SACD.

Quote :

"Its a waste because the vast majority of shit you'd want to actually own isn't even on either format"

A matter of personal preference. Or are we all required to like only what you do?

Quote :

"and you're essentially listening to select tunes that don't particularly sound ecstatically better then their CD counterparts."

You really ought to get a proper demonstration between the two from someone who knows what they're doing and has a real system. I assure you, you would categorize the difference as FAR more than ecstatically better.

2/24/2008 1:27:31 AM

Quote :

"Its a waste because the vast majority of shit you'd want to actually own isn't even on either format"

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Moon-30th-Anniversary/dp/B00008CLOA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873219&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Kind-Blue-Miles-Davis/dp/B00003XAQ5/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873219&sr=1-12
http://www.amazon.com/Come-Away-Me-Norah-Jones/dp/B00008WT49/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873276&sr=1-13
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Train-John-Coltrane/dp/B00008XESD/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873307&sr=1-34
http://www.amazon.com/Tommy-Pete-Townshend/dp/B0000DJZAH/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873336&sr=1-39
http://www.amazon.com/Highway-61-Revisited-Bob-Dylan/dp/B0000C8AVR/ref=sr_1_129?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873466&sr=1-129
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Tracks-Bob-Dylan/dp/B0000C8AVM/ref=sr_1_152?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873500&sr=1-152
http://www.amazon.com/At-Folsom-Prison-Multichannel-Stereo/dp/B00006312A/ref=sr_1_176?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873551&sr=1-176
http://www.amazon.com/Blonde-Bob-Dylan/dp/B0000C8AVU/ref=sr_1_190?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873584&sr=1-190
http://www.amazon.com/Every-Breath-You-Take-Classics/dp/B000088NSZ/ref=sr_1_252?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873674&sr=1-252
http://www.amazon.com/Downward-Spiral-Nine-Inch-Nails/dp/B00066N8JS/ref=sr_1_264?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873705&sr=1-264
http://www.amazon.com/Surfer-Rosa-Pixies/dp/B000MM1F6E/ref=sr_1_337?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873797&sr=1-337
http://www.amazon.com/Monks-Music-Thelonious-Monk/dp/B0002NY880/ref=sr_1_400?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873876&sr=1-400

and ...

http://www.amazon.com/Every-Breath-You-Take-DVD-Audio/dp/B00004NKFE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873560&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Marvin-Collection-DVD-Audio-Surround-Sound/dp/B0000C8AR0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873560&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Love-CD-%2B-Audio-DVD/dp/B000JJS8TM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203873987&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Tommy-Who/dp/B0001Z53F6/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874008&sr=1-22
http://www.amazon.com/L-Woman-DVD-Audio-Doors/dp/B000056HUA/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874049&sr=1-36
http://www.amazon.com/Fleetwood-Mac-Rumours-DVD-Audio-Surround/dp/B00005B5L4/ref=sr_1_46?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874076&sr=1-46
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Train-John-Coltrane/dp/B0007YXQRI/ref=sr_1_98?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874153&sr=1-98
http://www.amazon.com/Somethin-Else-Cannonball-Adderley/dp/B0007YXQR8/ref=sr_1_119?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874179&sr=1-119
http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Ryan-Adams/dp/B0000TAZY2/ref=sr_1_169?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874289&sr=1-169
http://www.amazon.com/Yoshimi-Battles-Pink-Robots-Deluxe/dp/B0000B1A2O/ref=sr_1_213?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874340&sr=1-213
http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Sounds-DVD-Audio-Surround-Sound/dp/B0000A14WB/ref=sr_1_233?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874384&sr=1-233
http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-DVD-Audio-DTS-Surround-Sound/dp/B00006L7MT/ref=sr_1_300?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874452&sr=1-300

So STFU

[Edited on February 24, 2008 at 12:37 PM. Reason : That's just a quick scan]

2/24/2008 12:35:56 PM

Quote :

"http://www.amazon.com/Tommy-Who/dp/B0001Z53F6/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203874008&sr=1-22"

The one i own!

2/24/2008 12:45:15 PM

^^ This dude fucking rules.

2/24/2008 12:48:28 PM

by the way - you can get the Toshiba HDA-3 player with 2 movies in the box and 5 more by mail for $99 now until they are out of stock (forever).

not a bad deal for a great dvd upconverter and 7 free HD movies, IMHO.

2/24/2008 1:41:13 PM

"In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren’t professional engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A processor. That means there’s no audible difference between the original CD standard (“Red Book”) and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD."

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1

more info on their setup: http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm

[Edited on February 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM. Reason : more]

2/24/2008 1:53:02 PM

I thought I remember reading reports that SACD actually picked up distortion at the upper frequency levels. Maybe that distortion only occurs outside of the audible frequencies.

2/24/2008 2:59:54 PM

[Edited on February 24, 2008 at 3:39 PM. Reason : never mind. that article is saying something way different than I thought it was.]

2/24/2008 3:34:04 PM

sacd definitely seemed to have more life than the standard cd on quite a few things I have listened to. having 5.1 was very nice on well recorded live sessions, but the processing (whether through the converters in the player or decoded in the adcom receiver) made a noticeable difference even on the same disc.

2/24/2008 3:35:58 PM

You may think that posting anecdotal evidence (ie: amazon listings) shows that a format is alive and well.

Indeed, maybe I should go ahead and post all the movies available on HD DVD to QED this entire thread then?

2/24/2008 3:46:01 PM

Never said "alive and well."

YOU said there was "nothing worth owning." That is the point that was disproved.

2/24/2008 3:49:21 PM

no he didn't. His exact words were:

Quote :

"Its a waste because the vast majority of shit you'd want to actually own isn't even on either format "

you listed a few albums that I might want to own, but the vast majority of what I'd want to own isn't on the format. He is correct; you're just trying to justify why you own failed technology.

2/24/2008 4:31:07 PM

Unlike most in this thread, I don't feel the need to "justify" anything. I've got what works for me.

To sum up: waiting on a universal player. Let's move on.

2/24/2008 4:45:09 PM

Interesting article up there. It should be noted that the tests involved 2-channel playback. Many SACDs are recorded in multi-channel, and allow high bit-rate multi-channel playback which lends a much more realistic soundstage and ambience that is not possible with CDs using some kind of Dolby encoding. That alone can make an SACD recording blow you away.

2/24/2008 11:05:32 PM

I wonder if the two discs are mastered any differently?

2/24/2008 11:59:31 PM

Quote :

"You may think that posting anecdotal evidence (ie: amazon listings) shows that a format is alive and well."

Holy butt fucking jesus. Are fucking retarded? I mean, if you are, I'm sorry if I just insulted you. But I really had no idea that you were so fucking dense. I mean fucking hell, man. How do you function on a daily basis? Really? It astounds me that you can even open your eyes and breathe at the same time. That is the level of fucking retarded I think you are. If Dante Alighieri wrote about the Circle of Retarded, you would most certainly be housed in the inner ring of the seventh circle.

So if you were able to comprehend in your vegetative state any of what I just wrote, let me explain that neither Wyloch nor I ever alluded to SACD or DVD-A being "alive and well." In fact, half of the fucking catalogs are discontinued. The point is that there are/were great albums available in both formats. And if Wyloch finds some value in a degenerative medium, then who the fuck are you to tell him he's wrong?

As for your little HD-DVD argument -- go ahead and post the movies. See if I give a flying fuck. I'm considering buying an Xbox 360 HD-DVD extension because they're cheap as hell and I have money to burn just to watch "The Big Lebowski" a handful of times before it's released on Blu-Ray. Then I'd toss the player in the trash and say, "That was worth every penny because I got to watch one of my favorite films in high definition four times before it was released on Blu-Ray. Oh well, thus is technology."

2/25/2008 12:54:12 AM

this thread has turned into "lets fight about something for the sake of fighting"

2/25/2008 2:10:57 PM

Quote :

"In fact, half of the fucking catalogs are discontinued.(LOL) The point is that there are/were great albums available in both formats. And if Wyloch finds some value in a degenerative medium, then who the fuck are you to tell him he's wrong? "

Someone not remotely dumb enough to invest in a retarded format.

I don't subscribe to the idea that opinions can't be foolish or wrong.

Bought an HD DVD player with an extensive HDDVD library? Grats, you failed and wasted your money.

Bought SACD/DVDA? Grats, you clearly missed the internet revolution.

Revel in your failure all you want. It doesn't make you seem anymore intelligent.

2/25/2008 2:47:18 PM

Quote :

"Best Buy has Xbox 360 HD DVD drive on sale for $50. The drive comes with King Kong HD DVD movie and qualifies for 5 free movies after mail-in rebate. Choose in-store pickup to save on shipping, otherwise it's $5. Thanks Eric90GT"

from slickdeals.net

2/25/2008 2:52:19 PM

^^ at this point I'm convinced you have almost no grasp on logical thinking. I pity you for your blissful ignorance, and I'm done with you now. Move on.

I'm in the process of finding a new home for my current player to lessen the blow when I go to buy a Blu Ray player - see classifieds if you're interested.

[Edited on February 25, 2008 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ]

2/25/2008 3:25:48 PM

^^ wow...i wish i had an xbox for that reason alone

2/25/2008 4:22:19 PM

http://www.xkcd.com/386/

2/25/2008 4:50:20 PM

^^you can use it in a PC. You just need a HDCP compliant video card to display it.

2/25/2008 6:40:44 PM

dude...just ordered one from best buy, i'll pick up tomorrow

anyone know...does the hd-dvd xbox add-on play regular DVDs?

2/25/2008 10:49:16 PM

Yes, it does.

2/25/2008 10:50:45 PM

Doesn't the 360 play regular DVDs by itself?

2/26/2008 9:28:55 AM

ah, forgot i had a $24 gift card from circuit city for having to wait too long for one of their orders...so got it for $53 - $24 = $29 and 6 movies...not bad IMO

i needed something to put in the HTPC anyway, and since burning isn't really a necessity right now (we've got a gigabit network going), this will be perfect

2/26/2008 9:31:51 AM

Quote :

"Doesn't the 360 play regular DVDs by itself?"

Yes, it does.

2/26/2008 10:22:01 AM

The Best Buy at Crabtree is selling "Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium" a few days early. I'm watching it now and must say that the sound and picture on this is remarkable. I've had my receiver (about to upgarde to the NAD separates) for seven years, and I've never heard a movie sound so impressive. Makes me wonder if I even need to upgrade ...

2/29/2008 2:24:42 PM

Rule number 1: does it sound good to you?

2/29/2008 2:34:21 PM

exactly. I'll still upgrade just so I can pass the HDMI through my processor to the TV. Right now I have about four connections running to the TV.

2/29/2008 2:44:28 PM

FYI, the Samsung BD-P1400 is only $360 - http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P1400-1080p-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B000TME35W

$40 less than the PS3, and as far as I know it's firmware is updatable, and while profile 2.0 has been announced, i'm not familiar with a player that has it yet.

2/29/2008 2:58:54 PM