It's good to know HUR and Smath74 are in favor of raising the minimum wage.

3/31/2014 5:13:42 PM

wat?

3/31/2014 6:30:51 PM

Quote :

"in the sense that republicans want to encourage the poor to work to bring themselves out of poverty, maybe."

You have to pay people for them to be able to raise themselves out of poverty.

3/31/2014 7:10:00 PM

raising minimum wage means fewer low paying jobs means less poor folk working means more people on the government's dime.

3/31/2014 7:41:22 PM

Guess they're going to stay poor then.

3/31/2014 8:05:31 PM

... hence raising the minimum wage is bad.

3/31/2014 8:53:04 PM

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125571-little-girls-unbelievably-powerful-speech-abortion-left-pro-choice-teacher-speechless/

4/1/2014 10:05:24 AM

haha, here is the "scientific evidence" for that post:
http://www.caseforlife.com/evidence.asp

Quote :

"Scientific Case The facts of science are clear: From the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings. Therefore, every "successful" abortion ends the life of a living human being. The Medical Community Speaks In its 1859 Report on Criminal Abortion, the American Medical Association (AMA) understood that "the independent and actual existence of the child before birth as a living being" was a scientific truth. Nothing has changed since that time. For the past 150 years doctors have known that life begins at conception. Consider the following quotations from medical experts in the field of embryology. "It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material that each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual." (Bradley M. Patten, Human Embryology, 3rd ed., New York: McGraw Hill, 1968, page 43.) "Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." (E. L. Potter and J. M. Craig, Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3rd ed., Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii.) Dr. Watson A. Bowes of the University of Colorado Medical School speaks clearly, when he says, "The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter - the beginning is conception." (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, Report, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981.) A 1981 U.S. Senate report states, "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being - a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings." (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers, Ibid.) Prior to advocating abortion, former Planned Parenthood President Dr. Alan Guttmacher was perplexed that anyone would question these basic scientific facts. "This all seems so simple and evident that it is difficult to picture a time when it wasn't part of the common knowledge," he wrote in his book Life in the Making. (A. Guttmacher, Life in the Making: The Story of Human Procreation, New York: Viking Press, 1933, p. 3.) In short, a human life begins at the completion of the conception process."

(also, I had never heard of ljreview.com, but its awesome. it's like The Blaze mixed with bizarro-world upworthy)

[Edited on April 1, 2014 at 10:33 AM. Reason : .]

4/1/2014 10:30:11 AM

Quote :

"Smath74 in the sense that republicans want to encourage the poor to work to bring themselves out of poverty, maybe. "

Lol, this presupposes that poor people aren't working, or aren't working hard enough, which is the exact anti-poor sentiment that makes the Republican Party seem clueless. Poor people are working harder than ever, and making less than ever. There are a myriad if reasons for this, 2 biggest ones being computerization and growth of financial industries, but literally all statistics on the issue point out that your basic premise for why the problem exists is wrong. If your premise is wrong, then all your solutions are going to be wrong. Despite the statistics, republicans just keep saying the problem is solely laziness. It's republicans who are laZy to look into the issue and understand the facts. When ignorance persists in the face of facts, it starts to look like stupidity or malice.

4/1/2014 11:33:45 AM

Quote :

"he facts of science are clear: From the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings. Therefore, every "successful" abortion ends the life of a living human being. The Medical Community Speaks"

LOL is this like Scientology science?

4/1/2014 12:03:18 PM

Quote :

"... hence raising the minimum wage is bad."

I'm not following your logic. Care to clarify?

4/1/2014 12:45:05 PM

fewer jobs available, less people working. how is that unclear?

4/1/2014 2:20:47 PM

Can we talk about the Republican stance on immigration now?

I feel like the circle of stupidity is about to become complete.

[Edited on April 1, 2014 at 2:29 PM. Reason : .]

4/1/2014 2:29:34 PM

Would you say this has become an abortion of a thread?

4/1/2014 2:34:53 PM

nah, more like logic and common sense took a shovel to the skull

4/1/2014 2:46:05 PM

if a pregnant alien crosses the border illegally, should she be allowed to have an abortion or are you okay with paying for that anchor baby to have a free Obama Phone?

[Edited on April 1, 2014 at 3:36 PM. Reason : Obamaphone? Obama-phone?]

4/1/2014 3:35:36 PM

she should have been prevented from crossing with border security. otherwise, immediately deport her.

4/1/2014 4:25:43 PM

she is hiding with an abortion doctor baby murderer and wants an abortion. you can't find her in time to deport her.


pop quiz, hotshot, what do you do?

4/1/2014 4:31:45 PM

shovel to the skull

4/2/2014 12:22:08 PM

Quote :

"Um maybe because I NEVER FUCKING SAID ANY OF IT? "

Where did I say that you did? Can you not read? Are you just making stuff up now and arguing against it?

Quote :

"You keep insisting that others defend this, but this claim was entirely fabricated by YOU."

Wanna try that again? Go back and see where I brought it up. You'll note that I did not make the original claim.

4/2/2014 11:15:16 PM

these people have already double downed on their support of murdering helpless children, regardless of any facts.

4/2/2014 11:23:31 PM

^^ you are seriously missing a chromosome or something.

Here's what happened:

I posted a summary of the republican stance on the poor (albeit a bit snarky/sarcastic) and asked for a logical refutation. You still refuse to answer why Republicans are cutting welfare/SNAP, trying to restrict access to BC/sex education, and wanting to limit abortion, all at the same time, and call this a 'strawman'. I am convinced you don't know what a 'strawman' even means.

Newsflash: poor people often reproduce like gerbils and gobble up junk food, costing taxpayers billions in aid. Why on earth do Republicans want to limit their access to abortion? It literally does not compute.

The bolded above is hyperbole, NOT A STRAWMAN.

Quote :

"these people have already double downed on their support of murdering helpless children, regardless of any facts."

ironically, this is closer to a strawman than anything else I've seen

[Edited on April 2, 2014 at 11:58 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2014 11:54:52 PM

no, it's pretty much fact. even if you people don't think abortion is killing a person, it still is.

4/3/2014 12:16:02 AM

^^ yes, you posted something completely unrelated to the topic, and I said as much. now you want me to continue talking about something unrelated to the topic. And you clearly can't read, because I'm not calling your further questioning about "the republican stance on the poor" a strawman. Keep looking, you might figure it out.

4/3/2014 12:22:17 AM

^^ so what? Killing isn't bad to our society, why should abortion be different?

4/3/2014 12:26:28 AM

?

4/3/2014 12:37:48 AM

Quote :

"no, it's pretty much fact. even if you people don't think abortion is killing a person, it still is."

an unborn baby isn't a person. it's a fetus. i know you don't believe in science, but get your 'facts' straight.

4/3/2014 12:56:28 AM

Call it a fetus, an unborn baby, or whatever you want. It's still a human being (just in an earlier stage of development.)

[Edited on April 3, 2014 at 8:42 AM. Reason : ]

4/3/2014 8:42:07 AM

if its actually just a tiny person, then extract it and give it to someone to raise

4/3/2014 8:48:19 AM

Quote :

"Call it a fetus, an unborn baby, or whatever you want. It's still a human being (just in an earlier stage of development.)"

Not that it truly matters, but let's say we cut your head off and stick it in a jar and preserve it a la Futurama, where you can talk and communicate. We also preserve your body.

Is this two people? If not, which is the person? Why?

4/3/2014 9:49:56 AM

folks, just to be clear here, Smath's earlier post is indeed a strawman. I'll explain why

Position: Supporting a woman's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion.

Strawman: "these people have already double downed on their support of murdering helpless children, regardless of any facts."

Notice how Smath74 has distorted the argument into something quite different: being pro-baby/child murder? It's very easy to attack being pro-baby murder, simply because what kind of monster would want to murder a helpless child?

4/3/2014 10:00:55 AM

Quote :

"? "

... Seriously? We've been over this a dozen times in this thread, and hundreds of times over the years.

As a society, we tolerate killing innocents when it comes to death penalty, police actions, drone strikes and bombings, stand your ground laws, and even (more understandably) accidents. Abortion is just another item on this list where society doesn't mind a little death (and most people are fine with abortion in cases of rape), but it gets the most airtime.

Our drone strike policy has caused us far, far more problems than abortion has, we've killed multiple generations of families in 1 stroke, but you don't hear prolife advocates make a peep about that.

4/3/2014 11:12:53 AM

Quote :

"Newsflash: poor people often reproduce like gerbils and gobble up junk food, costing taxpayers billions in aid. Why on earth do Republicans want to limit their access to abortion? It literally does not compute."

The Conservative Right Wing is not known for their abilities at deductive reasoning and logic

Quote :

"Call it a fetus, an unborn baby, or whatever you want. It's still a human being (just in an earlier stage of development.)"

Everytime i blow a load while reading my playboy i'm destroying MILLIONS of potential lives. Arrest me for baby killing.....

Quote :

" Our drone strike policy has caused us far, far more problems than abortion has, we've killed multiple generations of families in 1 stroke, but you don't hear prolife advocates make a peep about that. "

Those people aren't AMMURRRICAN #1 so they don't matter duh!

4/3/2014 3:42:18 PM

Quote :

"Everytime i blow a load while reading my playboy i'm destroying MILLIONS of potential lives. Arrest me for baby killing....."

Maybe if fucking idiots like yourself wouldnt say things like this you wouldnt have to deal with so many bible thumping retards.

You think a baby has 23 chromosomes? You think the remnants of your jerkfest are going to gestate in the trashcan?

The pro choice crowd in this idiotic thread is saying stuff every bit as bad as the pro lifers. On a larger scale thats exactly why this debate is even still going on.

Leave your intellectually superior attitude at the door.

4/3/2014 6:24:26 PM

Quote :

"these people have already double downed on their support of murdering helpless children, regardless of any facts."

Does our government "support" smoking? Because it's allowed. We have programs that work to prevent it. Semantically, the wording is wrong. It's supporting the right to smoke.

So we are supporting the right to murder helpless children.

But that's not all! We don't support anyone murdering children. We also don't support the murder of any children. We support the right of (only) a mother to murder a very specific child - the one who remains inside of her. And almost all pro-choice people want restrictions beyond that. Does anyone advocate allowing an elective abortion when a woman is actively in labor? No matter how much distortions they engage in, no one is going to believe we're arguing over partial-birth abortions.

Heck, just about everyone supports murder with qualifiers.

4/4/2014 8:02:39 AM

another thing to consider is that tolerating =/= supporting, and tolerating =/= active encouragement

for many pro-choice people, it's one thing to hold their nose and say, "well, it's ultimately her body, her decision, and she will have to deal with whatever emotional/mental/physical consequences that might arise after she terminates the pregnancy".

vs.

"i'm glad you've decided to get an abortion, i'll grab my checkbook!" or "you really ought to have that abortion!" or "you know, you're only 6 months pregnant, have you thought about how much easier it would be to abort now?", and so on...

i'm not in a position to judge, but many pro-choice women would NEVER, EVER have an abortion, yet they still think the option should be available

4/4/2014 11:27:43 AM

If you are pro-life, it's unethical for you to be anti-gay.

You want to reduce the millions of baby's being slaughtered by abortion? Support gay adoption. Let gays and lesbians do the marketing to incentivize poor or young mothers to put their kids up for adoption, and you'll see the abortion rate drop. I bet they are the biggest demographic demanding adoptable kids.

Support gay adoption. It's pro life, it's pro fairness, it's pro capitalism, it's pro-America.

4/6/2014 3:26:55 AM

Because religious morality has anything to do with being ethical to other humans.

4/7/2014 8:54:04 AM

^^ Ridiculous. Pro-life and anti-gay are both on the same side of the "personal freedom" index. To say that they contradict would be to negate the utility of the spectrum in general.

That just doesn't work, because many political ideologies can be shown to be on that side of the spectrum. Worldwide, it can explain ogles of belief clusters. Without a "low personal freedom" index score, a deconstructionist view becomes fantastically complicated.

Homogeneity is its own reward. People, in this view, don't exist for themselves. The vitality of the nation is an end-goal. Sometimes, we have to deny who we are individually so that the nation can be more like what we want it to be. Happiness doesn't have to be achieved by finding somewhere to fit in (like the progressives would have us believe), it can also be achieved by shipping off the deviants to work camps. A la:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cleanest_Race

This isn't to say that homosexuality is bad. They just need their own nation, where adherence to that particular sexual identity can be enforced uniformly.

4/8/2014 2:44:52 PM

http://jezebel.com/a-woman-filmed-her-abortion-to-show-that-its-not-scary-1572601717

good for her

5/8/2014 12:36:59 AM

^^ I can only laugh at this.

[Edited on May 8, 2014 at 7:01 AM. Reason : ^^]

5/8/2014 7:00:51 AM

^^^Your whole argument is invalid. individual freedom unless it infringes on someone else. abortion infringes on the small person being aborted.

^^that is just sick. encouraging people to go get abortions.

5/8/2014 7:57:59 AM

I can't respect anyone who believes that abortion is murder and then just sits by and cowardly allows a holocaust to happen; if you believe that abortion is murder and aren't doing anything, how do you reconcile that to yourself?



[Edited on May 8, 2014 at 8:10 AM. Reason : ^she's not encouraging anyone, she even says this is only her experience]

5/8/2014 8:09:34 AM

Quote :

"^^^Your whole argument is invalid. individual freedom unless it infringes on someone else. abortion infringes on the small person being aborted. "

Question begging, question begging, la la la la la...

5/8/2014 10:09:42 AM

5/8/2014 10:23:14 AM

^^justify it how you want, but it IS a human being that is being killed.

5/8/2014 10:55:24 AM

i believe that's you justifying it how you want.

5/8/2014 10:57:28 AM

oh... what species is it then if it's not a human being?

5/8/2014 10:59:41 AM

the mental gymnastics you have to use to be anti-choice are entertaining

5/8/2014 11:04:10 AM

Quote :

"I can't respect anyone who believes that abortion is murder and then just sits by and cowardly allows a holocaust to happen; if you believe that abortion is murder and aren't doing anything, how do you reconcile that to yourself?"

I appreciate your demand for coherence in beliefs and actions. That's why I've said before that I'm afraid the conservative right treats abortion more as political maneuvering than serious conviction. For people like myself who are convinced it is a holocaust, I'm not sure what we should do other than educate, vote pro-life, protest, try to sway people that the logic to commit abortions is actually the kind of thinking that requires mental gymnastics, volunteer and give money to crisis pregnancy centers, etc. But yes, I do think it is that serious, and I admit that I wish I could do more.

But somehow a culture's been duped in less than 30 years into thinking that a certain type of person is in fact subhuman. Hmm..sounds familiar. There's "progressive" "morality" for you.

5/8/2014 11:21:50 AM