9/22/2008 2:27:12 PM

9/22/2008 2:34:41 PM

9/22/2008 2:38:50 PM

really tankin at the end of the day here

9/22/2008 3:28:53 PM

wtf oil prices?? Are the shorts going back into oil or something?

9/22/2008 3:53:32 PM

^lol. See 700 billion dollar buyout and

Quote :

"The administration's proposal seeks an increase in the limit on the national debt from $10.6 trillion to $11.3 trillion to make room for the massive rescue."

9/22/2008 3:57:45 PM

^ Yeah, but I don't get why Oil is up 15% and as much as 20-25% earlier, when you've got Gold up like 5%, then Yen up only 2%, other commodities seems to be in the 2-6% range...

*shrug*

9/22/2008 4:06:42 PM

meh we're fucked either ways...but today was a buy day for me.

9/22/2008 4:21:04 PM

Oil may have been up, but all my stocks that follow oil prices didnt follow that jump. Hoping the catch up tomorrow. If it wasnt for my gold investment I would have had a crappy day, but thanks to that it basically evened me out.

9/22/2008 4:33:48 PM

My TM, SHLD, and JPM were all called away on Friday but the stock prices have since dropped well below the price that I sold them for. I might go ahead and put in some market orders to buy back tomorrow morning.

9/22/2008 5:08:51 PM

Quote :

"At all. This economy has still more to go before we see the light at the end of the tunnel."

that's fine. i don't care if it goes down some more or doesn't start a recovery tomorrow. it's depressed right now. it's still a good time to buy, as long as you don't need the money for a while.

9/22/2008 5:13:48 PM

we need laws against oil speculation

25% jump in 1 day is not because of change in the oil supply/demand today, but rather based 90% on speculation.

9/22/2008 5:46:30 PM

thanks Cramer for hyping gold today and sending my AUY play up another 30 cents after hours

9/22/2008 6:58:06 PM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09212008/business/almost_armageddon_130110.htm

9/22/2008 8:59:57 PM

^^^ The market works on speculation, and money is made by forecasting speculation. Oil and gold are winners in any market, instead of complaining you should buy oil....and gold

[Edited on September 22, 2008 at 9:44 PM. Reason : 1]

9/22/2008 9:43:45 PM

yeah, buying is based on the speculation that the market will go up, shorting is based on the speculation that the market will go down. Yin and Yang. You can't have one without the other - ban shorts, and the price will skyrocket temporarily. But guess what will happen when the ban is lifted..... hmmm..... i'm guess a crash and over-correction! Wait until October 3rd, if you want to see that in the market at large

Here, take some 78 year old advice
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/09/short-selling-o.html

Quote :

"Why this unanimity of attitude against the prevention of "short selling"? The answer of any one familiar with markets probably would be that, so long as stock market valuations can be influenced on the side of rising prices by speculative buying conducted with borrowed money, equilibrium is impossible except through permitting sales conducted through deliveries made with borrowed stock. Either practice is open to abuse, which it is the duty of the Exchange authorities to restrain. The abuse of "bidding up the market" by speculation based on broker's loans is not often recognized by the public, though its evil results ought to be reasonably evident to any one who remembers 1929. Yet it is plainly impossible to abolish "buying on margin" unless by reducing all transactions to a basis of cash purchases -- which would preclude an immense part of legitimate investment business. This being true, it ought to be evident that prohibition of "short sales" would expose the market to the extreme and dangerous maladjustment which so one-side d a proviso would inevitably create. Our "rashes" would be vastly more ruinous; our recoveries with the necessary "bear repurchases" eliminated, far less emphatic. The market would have become a trap for the unwary, with no automatic safeguard."

9/22/2008 9:54:49 PM

Looks like an effort to create a temporary, artificial stock bubble to me. And a desperate one.

9/22/2008 10:03:08 PM

9/22/2008 10:25:43 PM

The Big Picture is great, I really enjoyed the 1930's short selling comparison. I posted it in the housing crisis thread - great read.

9/22/2008 11:31:55 PM

Quote :

"You can't have one without the other - ban shorts, and the price will skyrocket temporarily. But guess what will happen when the ban is lifted..... hmmm..... i'm guess a crash and over-correction! Wait until October 3rd, if you want to see that in the market at large "

shouldn't that be priced in?

[Edited on September 22, 2008 at 11:46 PM. Reason : ^^ truth]

9/22/2008 11:46:28 PM

So we thinking a down day or up? I'm thinking down.

9/23/2008 9:01:14 AM

^^ Why would it be? Shorts started covering because of the ban. Other shorts looked around and saw what was happening and did the same. It was the mother of all squeezes. If the ban gets lifted, the opportunistic shorters will look at the market then, and possibly reenter to the downside. There is nothing to really price in at the moment.

It's been posted in blogs that what might end up happening is once the hedgies see the shorts have been squeezed fully out, they'll start to take their own profits on the artificial bounce, and then those stocks will drop again, this time from just plain old selling.

9/23/2008 10:02:56 AM

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/

"With our economy in crisis, the US Government is scrambling to rescue our banks by purchasing their "distressed assets", i.e., assets that no one else wants to buy from them. We figured that instead of protesting this plan, we'd give regular Americans the same opportunity to sell their bad assets to the government. We need your help and you need the Government's help!

Use the form below to submit bad assets you'd like the government to take off your hands. And remember, when estimating the value of your 1997 limited edition Hanson single CD "MMMbop", it's not what you can sell these items for that matters, it's what you think they are worth. The fact that you think they are worth more than anyone will buy them for is what makes them bad assets."

9/23/2008 10:19:38 AM

9/23/2008 5:38:16 PM

bought 200 shares of AIG today at $5

double or nothing

9/23/2008 6:23:46 PM

looks like it will be nothing

of course it tanks immediately after i buy it

9/24/2008 12:34:29 PM

i swear i have the worst luck ever

9/24/2008 2:35:02 PM

you buy into one of the most volatile stocks on the market with no real reason for thinking the price would go up, and when it doesn't you call that bad luck?

9/24/2008 2:48:42 PM

no, i fully understand it's one of the most risky stocks, which is why i said "double or nothing"

i just think it's terribly unlucky that it happened to tank less than 4 market hours after i bought it

9/24/2008 3:32:08 PM

Quit trying to day trade and hold aig for 10 years and see what your return is, I would be buying more if I was you. Financials WILL come back, this is still time to buy

9/24/2008 6:51:58 PM

^ has a point.

AAPL:

11/1997: $3:28
3/2000: $33.95
11/2000: $7.44
9/24/2008: $128.71

but, of all the financials that are dying, not all of them will bounce back. It's more or less a crapshoot.

9/24/2008 7:06:35 PM

WHY WHY WHY would you buy MORE of a practically bankrupt company?? You can't lump every debt-ridden company together and say "financials will recover." AIG is going to have to sell practically all it's assets just to pay the government loan. how much recovery do you think they have in them with paying 11% interest in an 85 BILLION DOLLAR loan?? YOU PEOPLE

But I'm excited about the buying opportunities that keep coming into play. I was finally able to buy into General Dynamics (GD) today and getting close on Honeywell (HON), Vale (RIO) and Coach (COH).
And i'm gonna keep on hyping up Sanofi-Aventis (SNY) and UnitedHealth (UNH) at these prices...

9/24/2008 7:16:21 PM

not sure why you'd buy financials right now. as soon as the gov't ends the ban on the shorts, they're gonna drop at least 5% (the amount they jumped when the short ban went into effect)...it's a pure superficial prop up...

so if you are in the market for buying financials, which is ballsy in this market but I like the contrarian play, you should wait until the ban is over

9/24/2008 8:41:46 PM

5% for financials is 2 hours of trading

9/25/2008 11:07:16 AM

Quote :

"not sure why you'd buy financials right now."

The guy next to me just made about 1000% on FRE

9/25/2008 11:38:37 AM

1000%?

that's curious.

9/25/2008 11:42:46 AM

that's curious?

9/25/2008 11:53:02 AM

eh i guess he just timed it absolutely perfect and got in at $0.25 or something.

9/25/2008 1:04:47 PM

^^^^I wondered if anyone had done that. FRE bottomed out at 0.25 last week, and is currently trading at 2.82.

[Edited on September 25, 2008 at 1:05 PM. Reason : ^]

9/25/2008 1:05:35 PM

Yeah, he used to dabble in penny stocks but never real had any success until now.

9/25/2008 5:31:51 PM

Wamu seized

Deposit base to be sold to JPMorgan

ALL of the Assets sold to JPMorgan. No equity purchased. All stockholders completely wiped out.

They are holding a 9:15pm conference call tonight.

Odd to seize on a Thursday rather than a Friday.

Banks open tomorrow.

[Edited on September 25, 2008 at 7:50 PM. Reason : .]

9/25/2008 7:32:13 PM

crazy, govt seized, then immediately sold to JPMorgan. What a sham.

9/26/2008 10:06:07 AM

How is it a sham?

9/26/2008 10:10:09 AM

they scoop up goldman and then wamu for hay pennies on the dollar right as the govt seizes them? i thought the new plan was going to SAVE banks like this from failing, being scooped up for nothing, and the common stockholders left with nothing? it's just difficult for me to assume it's all a legit deal... probably wrong... call me a skeptic

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ]

9/26/2008 10:33:36 AM

You need to read up a bit more. The new plan isn't to save banks from failing. It is to relieve banks of toxic paper and restore lending to a seized up credit market.

And the ~50k employees were able to return to their jobs today and those that still have deposits in WaMu can get them out today like normal.

I can think of worse things that could have happened.

9/26/2008 10:39:29 AM

Quote :

"It is to relieve banks of toxic paper..."

isn't this why WaMu failed?

wamu just a month or so ago said "we have tons in assets, we're fine, blah blah", but you have to think they knew this was coming. guess i feel pity for the shareholders heh.

i just figured IF they COULD get rid of their "toxic paper" that since all the other stuff they were doing was okay, they wouldn't get seized.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ]

9/26/2008 10:41:49 AM

im thinking of buying wamu, its at 0.16

9/26/2008 12:00:10 PM

hehe. pretty sure you can't trade it right now


i'm thinking of picking up V near the 60 mark.

9/26/2008 12:01:28 PM

actually i just placed a trade for lehmq at 0.20
just waiting for someone to sell it to me

9/26/2008 12:03:19 PM

can't buy wachovia right now...btw

9/26/2008 2:35:33 PM