^If Joffrey and the Lannisters defeat Stannis in battle it won't matter because the Lannisters will have effectively taken over the iron throne. It won't really matter anymore whether or not Joffrey is Robert's son, especially since it seems to be somewhat common knowledge amongst people in Westeros that he is the son of Cersei and Jaime.

If Joffrey defeats Stannis and wins the war, the new heir to the throne would become his brother, Tommen, not anybody that was related to Robert. Until Joffrey has any children, at least.

[Edited on May 25, 2012 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2012 4:46:50 PM

The line of succession really is pretty much irrelevant. The best claim to the throne is always going to be who has the biggest army.

5/25/2012 4:59:28 PM

I just started watching, starting fifth episode... damnit I was hoping I wouldn't like it too much, but I do. TIME TO BINGE WATCH.

5/25/2012 10:53:47 PM

Quote :

"If Joffrey defeats Stannis and wins the war, the new heir to the throne would become his brother, Tommen, not anybody that was related to Robert. Until Joffrey has any children, at least."

Tommen wouldn't be the new heir, is already the current heir to the throne. We're talking about the rightful heirs. Joffrey is not a rightful king... period. Therefore, Tommen is not the rightful heir. Stannis is the current rightful heir. If he dies, Gendry would be the rightful heir.

Whether or not any of that ever comes into play is something else altogether. But right now, the rightful heirs are Stannis, and then Gendry (or this theory that Jon Snow may be Robert's son).

Quote :

"It won't really matter anymore whether or not Joffrey is Robert's son, especially since it seems to be somewhat common knowledge amongst people in Westeros that he is the son of Cersei and Jaime."

If anything, I think that would matter in that they'd be more likely to go against it. Especially since they don't like him. They don't like him + they know he's not the rightful heir. If someone comes along with a more rightful claim to the throne (not even the most rightful, just more so than Joffrey), it seems that the commoners could be easily swayed to back that person.

5/26/2012 12:50:45 AM

You're not understanding. Like someone else said a few posts up, when there is a war for the Iron Throne and no dynasty in place, lines of succession hardly matter at all. All that matters is who is currently on the throne and who is winning the war. The common people may not like Joffrey but if the Lannisters defeat Stannis, their name is prestigious enough that they might be able to get enough bannermen to rally to their side to hold the Iron Throne.

Or maybe not. Maybe people will eventually rally behind Dany and her dragons since she is a Targaryen. Regardless, what hardly matters at all right now is line of succession. Someone's claim to the throne is only as good as their army, and if the Lannisters win the war, their bloodline is the new line of succession, at least until someone else comes along.

5/26/2012 1:06:37 AM

Clicked on bastard link despite spoiler warning
Something caught eye and clicked on that link
Read lots of spoilers
I am not disappoint

I've really gotta pick up these books

5/26/2012 8:37:05 AM

i want those dragons to get huge so dany can come back and fuck some shit up

5/26/2012 8:37:11 AM

I want them to get huge so they can kill her and we can get rid of the Dany plotline. Would be a huge departure from the books, but would make a better show...

5/26/2012 9:24:32 AM

POSSIBLE SPOILER




^x5. Gendry is a bastard, he is not in any line of succession. Also, any theory of jon being roberts bastard is crazy. The prevailing theory is that he is actually a targaryen bastard (lyanna and rhaegar)



END SPOILER

[Edited on May 26, 2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason : DURRR]

5/26/2012 10:21:53 AM

^^but she...is the MOTHER...of DRAGONS!!!!!!

5/26/2012 10:26:11 AM

Quote :

"You're not understanding. Like someone else said a few posts up, when there is a war for the Iron Throne and no dynasty in place, lines of succession hardly matter at all. All that matters is who is currently on the throne and who is winning the war. The common people may not like Joffrey but if the Lannisters defeat Stannis, their name is prestigious enough that they might be able to get enough bannermen to rally to their side to hold the Iron Throne."

Nah, I understand the situation and the discourse here completely. But you're responding to a series of posts about thing A and you're talking about thing B (A and B are very similar, but they differ at their core). I tried to briefly cap off A (who are Robert's rightful heirs) and move to B (to what extent does the rightful line of heirs matter at this point), but I guess you missed it.




Now as for the importance of the rightful line of heirs. You say it doesn't matter because the Lannister's are established and they have a prestigious name.

They have been on the throne for a very short time. People, bannerman and commoners alike, know or suspect that Joffrey is not the rightful heir because he's simply not Robert's son. Now I agree that when it comes to joe blow trying to overthrow Joffrey, most of the bannerman will go to the Lannisters. But simply because that's the "right" thing to do --- as in they better because the Lannisters are probably going to be win and it would be stupid to have opposed them.

Now, if you give those same people someone else to support. For ex., someone who A) is liked more than Joffrey.. or simply isn't Joffrey, B) has a chance of actually winning , and C) -- and this is really a cherry on top (A and B are definitely the most important) -- has a legitimate claim to the throne, all of those same bannerman may decide to not support the lannisters and to support the other people instead.

Now who could that be? There's no clear forerunner. Stannis has a claim.. but as you've said, that's not THAT important at this point. He does have an army that could potentially win. He also has black magic chick on his side, which some people are uneasy about.

There's someone else with an army.. Rob Stark. And that army is actually already taking it to the Lannisters a bit from what I can get from the show. I don't think he has any desire to be king. He's pretty honorable it seems. He admires his father who was also honorable. Now, Gendry has a right to the throne if Stannis dies. If Rob Stark were to win it all, he may take the throne. Or maybe he would appoint someone else... like the rightful heir for example since that would be honorable, it's what his father wanted to do, and Rob pretty much gave the honor of his father a verbal HJ an episode or two back. So I could certainly see him saying "this is what my father would have done, blah blah blah."

So.. I think it's completely up in the air right now. Joffrey could remain king. Stannis could win and become king. Rob could dominate and become king, he could dominate and then appoint stannis, or appoint Gendry (or maybe that wild Jon Snow theory comes to play).

[Edited on May 26, 2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

5/26/2012 11:33:14 AM

You know westeros is not real, right? Anything that happens is the whim of some lazy fat neckbeard.

5/26/2012 12:46:55 PM

Holy fucking words batman

5/26/2012 1:00:48 PM

^^ way to kill my dreams, man.

But imagine if it were real, and Ken Burns made the documentary. That could be amazing.

5/26/2012 1:56:23 PM

You gotta remember, too, that the Targaryens held the throne for way, way, waaaaaaay longer than Robert and, unlike Robert, actually did have a dynasty in place to the point that things like bloodlines/lines of succession really did matter a lot. So maybe if a surviving highborn Targaryen with dragons came along, people would rally behind that person. In other words, maybe Dany's storyline won't be quite so meaningless in a few seasons. Or maybe it will.

5/26/2012 2:29:27 PM

But Dany doesn't have a brother to marry so the targaryn bloodline is done.

5/26/2012 4:37:55 PM

Or does she...?

5/26/2012 5:18:47 PM

5/26/2012 6:01:55 PM

(for those who have not read the books) So let's play guess who dies by season end. Seems to be a ton of buildup for some serious action. My guess is joffrey, jorah, and rob stark's nurse chick. No way joffrey survives of he goes on the battlefield. Jorah is getting useless, and the whole rob and the nurse storyline seems to be headed for conflict.

Who i hope dies: theon, joffrey, catelyn stark

On a side note, i thought robert baratheon's bastard would have factored more in the storyline with arya than he has

[Edited on May 27, 2012 at 2:12 AM. Reason : X]

5/27/2012 2:05:23 AM

^that's cute. Reminds me of how good the earlier books are compared to the later ones where fuck all happens.

5/27/2012 9:24:57 AM

idk, they made it into an HBO series so there has to be people dying the last 2 episodes

5/27/2012 1:56:24 PM

My guess is Theon, Robb or Stannis

5/27/2012 2:53:05 PM

Please let it be Joffrey. I hate that kid.

5/27/2012 3:19:29 PM

Great episode

5/27/2012 9:57:59 PM

ok, that episode was badass. finally.

5/27/2012 10:01:35 PM

5/27/2012 10:05:19 PM

hell yes green fire.

incredibly badass and awesome touch to play the rains of castamere during the end credits.

5/27/2012 10:14:07 PM

double :/

[Edited on May 27, 2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason : ]

5/27/2012 10:14:07 PM

the rains of castamere was fucking EPIC

yeah so apparently The National did that rendition over the credits.

For anyone curious:

Quote :

"The Rains of Castamere was a song written about Lord Tywin Lannister's crushing victory over rebellious House Reyne of Castamere and the destruction of the House at the end of their rebellion."

sweet episode. the wildfire leaking from the ship was perfect.

5/27/2012 10:18:55 PM

Hope Tyrion isn't dead. He's the only character on the show that isn't one dimensional and awful

5/27/2012 10:30:23 PM

Quote :

"Hope Tyrion isn't dead. "

5/27/2012 10:35:26 PM

Quote :

"the rains of castamere was fucking EPIC"

Yes, Yes, Yes. I am so glad they included that, and even though I somehow imagined that song to be a little more upbeat (victory/mocking) instead of mournful (but it makes sense leaking back), their rendition was AWESOME and is better than anything I had in my head.

Awesome episode. The battle was perfect and the episode at all was just great for a TV show imo. It's no surprise that two of the best episodes out of the 19 we have seen so far were written by GRRM himself. Sure he had some of the best episodes to write but he also did a better job deciding what to show and what not to. The dialogue was top-notch too (makes me almost wish he did an episode with more of it)

I'm also very glad that they saved their fx budget for this episode instead of wasting it on pointless action scenes in earlier, smaller battles.


[Edited on May 27, 2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason : ]

5/27/2012 10:40:28 PM

Wowwwwwwwww. Fantastic!

5/27/2012 10:55:36 PM

AWESOME

5/27/2012 11:21:15 PM

Sansa should probably have gone with the Hound. I know she's afraid of him, but now she has to live with Joeffrey...what a twat

5/27/2012 11:31:29 PM

Some thoughts now that it has sunk in more:

-Whoever directed this did a great job

-The Hound was perfect tonight. They might have been able to pull off his terrified of fire aspect a little better but his mini-speech was awesome

-Loras wearing Renly's armor was a great touch. A change but a nod to the books (omg I said it) at the same time.

-Tyrion better win another Emmy

-Stannis was awesome in this episode

-Bronn was awesome in this episode

[Edited on May 27, 2012 at 11:54 PM. Reason : ]

5/27/2012 11:54:06 PM

SPOLIER














Who was that kid that Sarah Connor was with at the end?











































spoiler

[Edited on May 28, 2012 at 12:02 AM. Reason : ]

5/28/2012 12:02:15 AM

How is that a spoiler? It's Tommen: Joffrey's younger brother and her youngest kid.

edit: I guess to be fair, he hasn't been in the show very often this season but he has been in scenes with all 3 of Cersei's kids before

[Edited on May 28, 2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason : ]

5/28/2012 12:05:41 AM

I was wondering why the Hound freaked out. thanks for that post

5/28/2012 12:46:51 AM

I was wondering for a split second before I remembered THE HORRIBLE BURNS ON HIS HEAD.

Sansa was such a bitch to Tyrion, AFTER ALL HE'S DONE FOR HER.

[Edited on May 28, 2012 at 1:06 AM. Reason : .]

5/28/2012 1:03:38 AM

yeah, that's why they had the scene just before it started where he told the guy in charge of the archers that he'd better keep the fire away from him or he'd strangle him with his own guts.

Bron was awesome, this season needed more of him so I'm glad we got it here.


At first I thought the guy cut Tyrion's head in half (which made me ). But as deep as the cut on his face was, it really didn't seem that bad. I can't imagine he'd die from the wound itself anyhow. He'll certainly get some street cred for it though.

Also, was the guy who cut him on his side? I thought he looked at him as if he was with him and was about to say something, and then all of a sudden he attacked him. Is that right?

[Edited on May 28, 2012 at 2:12 AM. Reason : .]

5/28/2012 2:10:59 AM

wtf double post on an edit?

[Edited on May 28, 2012 at 2:20 AM. Reason : .]

5/28/2012 2:18:49 AM

The wildfire was way cooler looking than I was expecting. Drunk Cersei was great. Loved Loras in Renly's armor, but it was so quick that it took a second to register.

Quote :

"Whoever directed this did a great job"

Neil Marshall, who directed the pretty good movie Dog Soldiers.

Quote :

"Also, was the guy who cut him on his side? I thought he looked at him as if he was with him and was about to say something, and then all of a sudden he attacked him. Is that right?"

It was one of the Kings Guard, who had all left when Joffrey punked out.

5/28/2012 2:19:58 AM

Quote :

"Sansa should probably have gone with the Hound. I know she's afraid of him, but now she has to live with Joeffrey...what a twat"

i thought it was implied that she changed her mind and was about to go with him, no clue though...

Quote :

"-Loras wearing Renly's armor was a great touch."

so that was Loras leading the way into the throne room w/ Tywin? When he left renly's camp, he rode to join w/ the Lannisters i guess?? Was that made clear on the show? I thought he was going back to his own castle or something.

Quote :

"Also, was the guy who cut him on his side? I thought he looked at him as if he was with him and was about to say something, and then all of a sudden he attacked him. Is that right?"

wasnt he one of the guy's that Joffrey left and Tryion told him to "bear the banner?" Maybe Joffrey told them to kill tyrion if they got the chance?

bunch of question marks in my post!

5/28/2012 2:28:06 AM

Yeah, I thought he was the member of the kings guard that joffrey told to represent the king on the battlefield. But I didn't understand why after following him out there (after some people already left) and in the middle of fighting, he suddenly turned on tyrion. Was there a clear catalyst for that? Maybe he thought they were going to lose and thought that killing Tyrion would get him favor with stannis? That sequence just seemed out of the blue.

The wild fire was pretty impressive. Much more destructive than I expected.

5/28/2012 2:41:42 AM

Quote :

"I thought he was the member of the kings guard that joffrey told to represent the king on the battlefield"

I can't tell these Kings Guard guys apart with their helmets on.

5/28/2012 2:45:12 AM

^^^ I think I remember little finger arranging for the tyrells to join tywin lannister when he was at Harrenhal right?

5/28/2012 3:48:36 AM

It was hinted at but never specifically said that the Tyrell's were going to join the Lannister. That was supposed to be a surprise and I didn't think they did the best job of showing Loras as Renly. But all in all it was a great episode. Excited about the finale and I wish s3 were starting now.

5/28/2012 7:34:57 AM

loras' sister made it pretty clear she wanted to be queen, and it seemed beyond renly they had no real loyalty to the baratheons, so no surprise they'd try to join up with the most powerful family at the time

5/28/2012 12:20:40 PM

my guess is that the dude turning on tyrion was directed by joffrey and or cersi

5/28/2012 12:23:32 PM