Quote :

"who is Pierce Morgan?"

Piers Morgan...

[Edited on March 21, 2013 at 9:45 AM. Reason : ]

3/21/2013 9:44:33 AM

You mean the sky isn't falling and essentially nothing is going to change regarding guns in America?

Who'da thunk it? It's almost as if the people convincing you that the sky was falling had something to profit from it.

3/21/2013 10:39:43 AM

Do you think this delays the impending UN attack? Asking for a friend.

3/21/2013 11:27:11 AM

This will obviously mean different things to different people, but newly released documents suggest a gun safe was found in Adam Lanzas bedroom. Also, he shot his mom in the forehead.

3/28/2013 10:21:12 AM

To me it means he had shitty parenting to me.

3/28/2013 10:42:19 AM

Not that I'm downplaying the importance of the stories you're reading, and not that I don't believe them, but:

Quote :

"A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds."

Which parts specifically are we supposed to pay attention to when this kind of sloppy sensationalism just wants to ram "the newest details" down your throats?

[Edited on March 28, 2013 at 10:51 AM. Reason : huff post, nydn, slate]

3/28/2013 10:50:22 AM

I would love to know what 12ga shotgun A) that fits in a glovebox and B) can accept magazines holding 35 rounds each.

3/28/2013 10:59:23 AM

I'm not aware of any shotgun magazines that hold anywhere near that amount of ammunition.

Reports a while back were that it was a Saiga 12--and it has magazines available that are probably larger than any other 12-gauge--but I'm pretty familiar with that weapon, and I'm not aware of any mags anywhere that are that size.

3/28/2013 11:04:09 AM

Also, I have a gun safe in my bedroom, with at LEAST 1400 rounds of ammunition, etc. That's not even remotely abnormal.

Shit, I have magazines for guns I don't even own, just in case their purchase ever gets restricted and I decide to buy the gun.

3/28/2013 11:06:55 AM

It's a little abnormal for a 20 year weirdo who lives with his mom and has known mental issues

3/28/2013 11:17:17 AM

Nowhere in the reports I'm finding say anything about the safe being in his bedroom.

Quote :

"An arsenal of weapons including guns, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a bayonet and several swords was found in the home and car of the gunman who carried out the Newtown school shooting, according to search warrants released Thursday."

(we already knew this)

Quote :

"Sedensky says Lanza killed all 26 victims inside Sandy Hook Elementary School with a Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle before taking his own life with a Glock 10 mm handgun. He says Lanza had another loaded handgun with him inside the school as well as three, 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster."

(already knew this)

Quote :

"A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds."

(retarded, but people swallow this shit whole)

Quote :

"At the house, investigators found books about autism and Asperger's syndrome as well as an NRA guide to pistol shooting. Police said they found a smashed computer hard drive and a gaming console in Lanza's bedroom. An unnamed source told investigators that Lanza was an avid gamer who played "Call of Duty" and other games and rarely left his home."

(first sentence is disturbing, but God knows we won't dwell on his illnesses)

Quote :

"Investigators found articles on other shootings and a holiday card containing a check made out to Adam Lanza for the purchase of a firearm, authored by his mother, Nancy Lanza."

(too bad the dumb bitch is dead, her responsibility in this just keeps growing and growing)

Quote :

"Documents indicate that authorities found a gun safe with shotgun shells and numerous boxes of bullets. In a bedroom closet, they found ear plugs, a handwritten note regarding ammunition and magazines, paperwork on guns and a metal bayonet."

(closest it comes to saying the safe was in the bedroom, but doesnt. if it was that would be the title of the headline)

Quote :

"In a top drawer of a filing cabinet, they found paper targets. In a duffel bag, they found ear and eye protection, binoculars, numerous other paper targets and Lanza's NRA certificate. Authorities found numerous knives, including samurai swords. They found a military-style uniform in Lanza's bedroom and handwritten notes containing the addresses of local gun shops."

(oh wow, samurai swords and military uniforms. just like every kid at every school who dresses in black, ever)

I also like who they go out of their way to mention his "NRA certificate" like that actually means something (besides the political implications, the conclusions they're trying to get weak-minded readers to draw). Most gun and knife purchases come with at least one stupid "join the NRA" application, and more often than not simply mailing it in gets you a free gift.

I'm certain the NRA didn't supply Lanza with marching orders, and I don't think Lanza joined specifically because he's evil and wanted to be a part of a greater evil. The NRA likes to pad their numbers so they can brag about useless membership statistics, and Lanza wanted a free pocketknife or range bag. Simple.

As much as liberals scream "partisan hackery" on this board I would at least appreciate your being able to recognize it in all forms.

3/28/2013 11:17:38 AM

fwiw, this is the top headline on CNN right now

Quote :

"Sandy Hook killer's motive elusive Newtown killer Adam Lanza had a gun safe in his room and there were hundreds of rounds of ammo in his home, newly released documents show"

although i don't really think that's all that important

3/28/2013 11:22:19 AM

Fair enough.

Hopefully other media sources follow suit (unless they're being cautious).

3/28/2013 11:24:35 AM

I think i saw it on wral this morning too, but they apparently removed it.

3/28/2013 11:27:29 AM

I'm not really a fan of the same "canned" story getting passed around haphazardly amongst multiple networks (errors and all).

3/28/2013 11:31:19 AM

yep. the new 24/7 media world we live in. sign of the times. it sucks.

3/28/2013 11:33:02 AM

I'm going to put this here. It's a link to a draft of that UN arms treaty that I keep hearing talked about with the vaguest of detail.

http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/CONF.217/CRP.1

4/2/2013 4:49:12 PM

Quote :

"A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds."

In the glove box with a 70 round magazine clip OMG LOL

4/3/2013 9:50:14 AM

Honda should market that, that's a lot of storage space in the glove box

4/3/2013 9:51:33 AM

It's the Dr. Who version Civic, where things are bigger on the inside.

4/3/2013 10:02:53 AM

Has anyone looked closely at the "Universal Background Check" bill? While I don't disagree with requiring background checks for all gun sales, from what I've heard, this bill goes much further:

- Requires all sales to go through FFL
- Applies to all dealings with firearms, not just sales
- This means if you let your buddy borrow your gun, then you're a felon
- This means if you leave your guns somewhere and you leave but your friend/girlfriend/etc. stay then you are a felon.
- Even though it is illegal for the feds to keep a database of NICS checks, they are doing it anyway

Don't know how much of this is true, but if so, then it is scary and goes way too far.

4/3/2013 3:03:01 PM

^ link the bill text if you don't mind

4/3/2013 4:57:55 PM

^^If true then color me unsurprised.

4/4/2013 3:04:59 AM

very latest version, PDF: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113s374rs/pdf/BILLS-113s374rs.pdf
track progress here (S. 374): http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:S.374:

It is currently known as the "Fix Gun Checks Act of 2013," with long title: "A BILL To ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the national instant criminal background check system and require a background check for every firearm sale."

I'll try to summarize the bill, as reported with amendments about 3 weeks ago, by looking up all those references in the bare text.


Title I - ENSURING THAT ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM BUYING A GUN ARE LISTED IN THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM
Section 101 - REAUTHORIZATION OF NICS ACT RECORD IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM GRANTS
(a) IN GENERAL
(1) Take out the requirement for states to count these as people prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm:
-a person for whom an indictment has been returned for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year that is valid under the laws of the State involved or who is a fugitive from justice, as of the date of the estimate, and for which a record of final disposition is not available
-a person who is an unlawful user of, or addicted to a controlled substance as demonstrated by arrests, convictions, and adjudications, and whose record is not protected from disclosure to the Attorney General under any provision of State or Federal law
(2) Let the Attorney General decide how far back to look when determining whether states are in compliance with keeping records of people prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm (the current window is 20 years back).

(b) IMPLEMENTATION ASSISTANCE TO STATES
(1) Make clear that there are two types of grants: for planning and establishing background-check technologies, and for improving and upgrading them.
(2) Establishing or enhancing a relief from disabilities program can also be done under the first of those two types of grants (and must be the use of 3-10% of any of the second type), while maintenance of such a program can also be done under the second.
(3) Less money is appropriated in 2014-2018 ($100M/year) for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) than 2009-2013 ($125M/year, doubled for 2010 and 2011); up to 30% of grants from this appropriation can be used for improvement and upgrading, and up to 2 grants may be made to each state for this purpose.

Section 102 - PENALTIES FOR STATES THAT DO NOT MAKE DATA ELECTRONICALLY AVAILABLE TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM
(a) IN GENERAL
For 2 years after the rules are promulgated by the Attorney General, states that don't provide at least 50% of the records required get docked for up to 3% of a particular block grant for assistance to local law enforcement; 3 years after that, the bar is raised to 70% and the maximum penalty is raised to 4%, and after that, the bar is raised to 90% and the mandatory penalty becomes 5%.
(b) REPORTING OF STATE COMPLIANCE
Every year, starting up to a year after passage, the Attorney General will publish to print and the Web a ranking of states by the estimated ratio of records provided to available records.

Section 103 - CLARIFICATION THAT FEDERAL COURT INFORMATION IS TO BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM
'nuff said

now let's get into the meat of the matter
Title II - REQUIRING A BACKGROUND CHECK FOR EVERY FIREARM SALE
Section 201 - PURPOSE
"The purpose of this title is to extend the Brady Law background check procedures to all sales and transfers of firearms."

Section 202 - FIREARMS TRANSFERS
(a) IN GENERAL
The requirement to get a background check is extended to transfers of firearms from unlicensed individuals (like sales, gifts, and borrowing) via licensed dealers, importers, and manufacturers: Before an unlicensed person can transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person, the firearm must be given to a licensed person to conduct a background check, who will then send the firearm on through if the recipient isn't flagged; also, this transaction must be recorded, and the Attorney General will decide the maximum that the licensed person may charge for this service.
However, gifts within the immediate family (between spouses, siblings, parents and children, or grandparents and grandchildren) or from an estate, temporary transfers (up to 7 days) in which the firearm doesn't leave the property that the owner's home sits on, and temporary transfers for the purposes of hunting or sport (in a shooting range, at a shooting competition, during the relevant hunting season with relevant licenses and permits) still won't require background checks.
As with sales from a licensed dealer, if you fail to get a background check while knowing you're supposed to, you can get fined or imprisoned up to a year.

(b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENTS
just a little grammatical and syntactic cleanup

Section 203 - LOST AND STOLEN REPORTING
(a) IN GENERAL
Within 24 hours after discovering that your firearm has been lost or stolen, you must tell the Attorney General and local authorities, or else you can get fined or imprisoned up to 5 years.

Section 204 - EFFECTIVE DATE
180 days after enactment
FIN


So about the post that wdprice3 made...
first: yup
second: pretty much, except for gifts from the immediate family and bequests from a dead person's estate and the like
third: as long as it doesn't leave your property, the shooting range or competition, or the hunting grounds (where applicable), you'll be fine...so in general you won't be fine
fourth: here's where the word "knowingly" is key, but of course you're also safe if they never actually take possession of the firearm
fifth: could well be the case, as I found in a comment on an ABC News story, but at least the bill wouldn't legitimate the practice: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/03/reid-to-introduce-gun-control-legislation-with-background-checks/

4/4/2013 4:56:58 AM

Lololololol

4/4/2013 6:35:09 AM

loaning a gun to someone carte blanche should be controlled the exact same way that selling one is, otherwise its a major loophole to exploit.

(and i thought that was already illegal, at least in NC. maybe not, should be though)

4/4/2013 8:59:22 AM

^no. I should not have to go to an FFL for a NICS check to let my buddy, a CHP holder, use my firearm. And no, it is not illegal in NC as long as you are legal to obtain & possess.

Quote :

"the Attorney General will decide the maximum that the licensed person may charge for this service."

great, so now the AG can decide, hey, let's ban guns without really banning guns! Transfers now cost $10,000! and there's no fucking vote on it.

Quote :

"Within 24 hours after discovering that your firearm has been lost or stolen, you must tell the Attorney General and local authorities, or else you can get fined or imprisoned up to 5 years."

This does nothing but make criminals out of innocent people, as there may be situations where contact cannot be made within 24 hours.

[Edited on April 4, 2013 at 9:18 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2013 9:12:57 AM

how is loaning you a gun to take wherever you want, whenever you want, for an unlimited amount of time, somehow significantly different than selling you the gun?

the law would not prevent me from loaning you a gun at the range or while hunting or at the house target shooting, I just couldn't give you a gun to do whatever you want with.

that's how it should be, if you don't then its a pretty big loophole

Quote :

" as there may be situations where contact cannot be made within 24 hours."

explain a few of them

[Edited on April 4, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2013 9:20:17 AM

This is just as bad as AWB. Whats worse is the majority of americans are watching that fucking commercial thinking background checks are actually voting FOR gun rights.

[Edited on April 4, 2013 at 9:21 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2013 9:20:50 AM

That commercial is just an attempt to mitigate some of the political backlash associated with supporting gun control

4/4/2013 9:29:47 AM

My girlfriend (now my wife) got her CHP before she owned a handgun. That law requires us to go to an FFL for me to let her borrow one of my handguns for carry. At thethe very least, CHP holders should be exempt.

4/4/2013 9:35:35 AM

^yep. the commercials about 90% of people and 70% of NRA supporting NICS checks are disingenuous. Sure, people support NICS checks, but not the rest of the shit in this bill. Unfortunately, too many people are too lazy to read/believe what's in the bill so they go on supporting the bill that "just" adds background checks.

^^^^I can't loan my CHP holding buddy my gun? Makes sense

The first scenario for no contact in 24-hours is out camping. Camping with firearms is very popular. Camping without electronics or in areas with no phone service is popular.

[Edited on April 4, 2013 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2013 9:37:22 AM

If you were out camping, and someone stole your gun, you wouldn't be interested in reporting it as soon as you could?

The only thing I see wrong with the proposal so far is the actual background check system. What are they doing to make sure the data is accurate and up to date?

4/4/2013 9:42:17 AM

lost or stolen

4/4/2013 9:44:23 AM

so if they add "or at first available opportunity, whichever is first" to that requirement you are good with it then, right?

4/4/2013 9:48:37 AM

Yeh, that would be better, but with out the "whichever comes first" part. I don't have a problem with requiring reporting of lost/stolen firearms; in fact, I very much agree with it. However, placing a short and hard timeframe is a bit extreme.

[Edited on April 4, 2013 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2013 9:50:38 AM

Quote :

"My girlfriend (now my wife) got her CHP before she owned a handgun. That law requires us to go to an FFL for me to let her borrow one of my handguns for carry. At thethe very least, CHP holders should be exempt. "

Quote :

"gifts within the immediate family (between spouses, [...] still won't require background checks."

4/4/2013 9:51:14 AM

She got her CHP before we were married

4/4/2013 9:54:09 AM

and you're married now, so you meet the exemption

^^^ yeah, after thinking about it the "whichever comes first" part is a little redundant. you have 24-hours, and if you are unable during that time you have to report it at first available opportunity. that's pretty reasonable.

4/4/2013 9:59:43 AM

And for 2 years we didn't meet the exemption.

4/4/2013 10:01:56 AM

and it shouldn't be, because there isn't a legal difference between two people who have been dating for 2 days and those who have been dating for a long time. if you allow that exemption to apply to any self-described relationship its a pretty huge loophole.

4/4/2013 10:27:39 AM

The CHP is the difference. Shouldn't matter if the person is my fuck buddy, friend, stranger, whatever. I don't see why CHP holders need to go through NICS.

4/4/2013 10:36:57 AM

CHP is not federal

4/4/2013 10:44:18 AM

even the ACLU has concerns, so my some of my concerns aren't wild ideas:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/04/exclusive-aclu-says-reids-gun-legislation-could-threaten-privacy-rights-civil-liberties/

4/4/2013 10:44:41 AM

Would you prefer a federal CHP or FOID?

4/4/2013 10:49:36 AM

Neither, I don't think the exemption should exist

^^yeah, i don't see this passing without the requirement to destroy records

4/4/2013 10:51:21 AM

Well why didn't you say so?

4/4/2013 11:45:50 AM

Quote :

""If it doesn't fix the problem 100%, if it doesn't stop every single act of gun violence, if it doesn't prevent every illegal gun sale, then it's completely pointless." Laws mitigate illegal activity, not completely eradicate it. You're putting an unrealistic standard of efficacy for gun laws that I wonder if you apply to any other type of law."

The argument isn't "we can't 100% prevent gun violence, so why try." The argument is that such laws severely infringe on people's Constitutionally protected rights and make law-abiding citizens jump through tons of legal hoops just to exercise those rights while having zero effect whatsoever on curbing gun violence, much less curbing the violence that provoked the creation of the laws in the first place. Laws don't mitigate illegal activity in any appreciable way; instead, they give us a way to deal with those who engage in activity that is socially undesirable. It is undeniably apparent to all but the most ardent anti-gun mouth-breathers that simple gun ownership is in no way socially undesirable, much less is it in any way comparable to murder, theft, and assault.

4/7/2013 1:23:20 AM

except that the states with the loosest gun laws have the most gun violence of those things

4/7/2013 11:12:45 AM

Quote :

"undeniably apparent"

no.

4/7/2013 11:31:41 AM