4/3/2006 12:57:56 PM

Quote :

""

EVIDENCE OF GROUND SHAKE JUST BEFORE THE COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS, SUGGESTING POWERFUL EXPLOSIVES USED TO DESTROY THE STRUCTURAL SUPPORTS OF THE TOWERS JUST PRIOR TO THEIR COLLAPSE

The following testimony is from the emergency personnel tapes released in August '05:

Quote :

"“We felt the ground shake. You could see the towers sway and then it just came down and I never looked back once I started running.” --medical technician Lonnie Penn"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110203.PDF (see page 5 of PDF file for quote)

Quote :

""...all of a sudden the ground just started shaking. It felt like a train was running under my feet. . . . The next thing we know, we look up and the tower is collapsing." --fire patrolman Paul Curran"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110369.PDF (see page 11 of PDF for quote)

Quote :

"""Shortly before the first tower came down I remember feeling the ground shaking. I heard a terrible noise, and then debris just started flying everywhere. People started running...." [...] "...we basically had the same thing: The ground shook again, and we heard another terrible noise and the next thing we knew the second tower was coming down." --Lieutenant Bradley Mann of the fire department"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110194.PDF (see pp. 5-7 of PDF file for quotes)


Video evidence of groundshake prior to WTC collapse
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcshake.mpg

Look for the camera to shake for about a second approximately 7 seconds into the clip and 10 seconds before the collapse begins.


More...

Images of the World Trade Center Site Show Thermal Hot Spots on September 16 and 23, 2001:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html (U. S. Geological Survey Report)

WTC Thermal Hot Spots: The Fingerprint of a Demolition:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_hotspots.html

4/3/2006 1:02:33 PM

German firm probes final World Trade Center deals

Quote :

"German computer experts are working round the clock to unlock the truth behind an unexplained surge in financial transactions made just before two hijacked planes crashed into New York's World Trade Center on September 11. Were criminals responsible for the sharp rise in credit card transactions that moved through some computer systems at the WTC shortly before the planes hit the twin towers? Or was it coincidence that unusually large sums of money, perhaps more than $100 million, were rushed through the computers as the disaster unfolded? A world leader in retrieving data, German-based firm Convar is trying to answer those questions and help credit card companies, telecommunications firms and accountants in New York recover their records from computer hard drives that have been partially damaged by fire, water or fine dust. Using a pioneering laser scanning technology to find data on damaged computer hard drives and main frames found in the rubble of the World Trade Center and other nearby collapsed buildings, Convar has recovered information from 32 computers that support assumptions of dirty doomsday dealings. "The suspicion is that inside information about the attack was used to send financial transaction commands and authorisations in the belief that amid all the chaos the criminals would have, at the very least, a good head start," said Convar director Peter Henschel. "Of course it is also possible that there were perfectly legitimate reasons for the unusual rise in business volume," he told Reuters in an interview. Profiting from disaster? "It could turn out that Americans went on an absolute shopping binge on that Tuesday morning. But at this point there are many transactions that cannot be accounted for," Henschel said. "Not only the volume but the size of the transactions was far higher than usual for a day like that. There is a suspicion that these were possibly planned to take advantage of the chaos." Nearly 3,300 people were killed in the attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center. Some 30,000 people in the buildings, symbols of America's financial might, were able to escape between the time the planes crashed and about an hour later when they collapsed -- even though many of the unmanned computers continued working. The United States blames the Al Qaeda group led by Saudi-born Osama bin Laden for the attack and has since waged war on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan that sheltered them. Advance knowledge of attack? There are several data retrieval companies in the United States and Europe, but Convar said it has won the lion's share of the contracts from the World Trade Center because of its laser scanning technology. Convar developed the laser scanner two years ago that made it possible to retrieve data from badly damaged computers. With a staff of 30 in its high-security facility in Pirmasens near the French border, the firm has worked with the US armed forces in Germany as well as German federal police for the last 15 years. Its offices in Pirmasens, a town of 36,000 still suffering from the departure of some 4,000 American soldiers stationed here during the Cold War, are closely guarded behind high fences and monitored by dozens of security cameras. Inside the building, an endless series of code-operated door locks keeps unwelcome visitors away. In the centre of the facility is a 120 square metre (1,292 square foot), dust-free "clean room" where the damaged computer drives are coaxed back to life. Citing client privacy, Henschel declined to say which companies Convar is working for, or provide details about the data retrieved so far. But he said the raw material, up to 40 gigabytes per computer hard drive, is sent immediately by satellite or courier back to New York. Money trail Richard Wagner, a data retrieval expert at the company, said illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster. "There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million," Wagner said. "They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed." The companies are paying between $20,000 and $30,000 for each computer recovered, Henschel said. The high recovery costs are one reason why only a limited number of hard drives are being examined. Convar has turned down a request by one British newspaper to try to recover personal last hour e-mails sent by someone trapped in the doomed building. Henschel said the companies in the United States were working together with the FBI to piece together what happened on September 11 and that he was confident the destination of the dubious transactions would one day be tracked down. "We have been quite surprised that so many of the hard drives were in good enough shape to retrieve the data," he said. "The contamination rate is high. The fine dust that was everywhere in the area got pressed under high pressure into the drives. But we've still been able to retrieve 100 percent of the data on most of the drives we've received. "We're helping them find out what happened to the computers on September 11 as quickly as possible. I'm sure that one day they will know what happened to the money." "

http://www.prisonplanet.com/german_firm_probes_final_world_trade_center_deals.htm

4/3/2006 1:22:02 PM

hang on....does johnhguth support the consipacy thoeries??

4/3/2006 1:41:08 PM

More amazing testimony from the Emergency Personnel Tapes:

AMAZING EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY FROM THE 9/11 EMERGENCY PERSONNEL TAPES RELEASED IN AUGUST '05 DESCRIBING EXPLOSIVES GOING OFF JUST BEFORE THE TWIN TOWER COLLAPSES

The testimony of Stephen Gregory, Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.):

Quote :

"A. ...I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been the result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was? A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too. [...] Q. On the television pictures it appeared as well, before the first collapse, that there was an explosion on the upper floors. A. I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110008.PDF

(see pp. 14-15 of PDF file for above quotes)


The testimony of Chief Frank Cruthers:

Quote :

""And while I was still in that immediate area, the south tower, 2 World Trade Center, there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110179.PDF

(see page 4 of PDF file for above quote)

The testimony of Daniel Rivera (Paramedic, EMS):

Quote :

""It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down.""

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110035.PDF

(see page 9 of PDF file for above quote)


The testimony of Captain Karin Deshore of emergency medical services:

Quote :

""Somewhere around the middle of the world trade center there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building. I went inside and told everybody that the other building or there was an explosion occuring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here."

http://sfgate.com/gate/pictures/2005/09/10/ga_karin_deshore.pdf

(see page 15 of PDF file for above quote)


READ THESE TESTIMONIES! "Popping sounds" associated with red and orange flashings going around the building. Witnesses describing explosions and material shooting out of the building and then a delay before the collapse. Witnesses saying they thought it was a “controlled demolition.” TELL ME THAT THERE WEREN'T EXPLOSIVE CHARGES IN THE TOWERS. TELL ME THAT ISN'T A DESCRIPTION OF A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.

4/3/2006 1:53:52 PM

ok

this isn't a controlled demolition

see how easy that was for me to do

4/3/2006 1:54:54 PM

The point is that you can't honestly deny that it was a controlled demolition after seeing the evidence.

4/3/2006 1:57:59 PM

im denying...and i just read the evidence....take a step back...and realize the absurdity of all this

4/3/2006 1:59:05 PM

if this was a controlled demolition, dont u think people would have noticed the explosives being planted AND wired up wherever they were placed? to bring down buildings of that size would require a significant amount of explosives and det-cord (detonation cord for those lacking).

4/3/2006 2:01:30 PM

2 'MUST SEE' SHORT VIDEO CLIPS:

New York Firefighters Discuss Bombs in WTC Towers
40 second video clip: http://www.prisonplanet.com/032404firefightersdiscuss.html

Quote :

"Firefighter 1: "Floor by floor it started popping out." Firefighter 2: "It was if they had detonators...planted to take down the building" Firefighter 1: "Yeah. Detonators. Yeah." Firefighter 2: "Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom..." Firefighter 1: "All the way down.""

MSNBC News VIDEO CLIP: Police found "suspicious device" and believed explosive devices may have been planted in the WTC Buildings
http://prisonplanet.com/video/051205explosives.wmv

Quote :

"The report you're watching and hearing was filed by an MSNBC news anchor Rick Sanchez on the morning of September 11th 2001. [...] Sanchez states, ”Police have found what they describe as a suspicious device and they fear that it might be something that could lead to another explosion." "I spoke with some police officials moments ago, Chris, and they told me they have reason to believe that one of the explosions at the World Trade Center aside from the ones that may have been caused by the impact of the planes with the building, may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some kind of explosive device in it.” So their fear is that there may have been explosive devices planted either in the building or in the adjacent area, and that's why they are being so cautious.""

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:20 PM. Reason : `````]

4/3/2006 2:12:48 PM

BACK TO THAT BASTION OF CREDIBILITY

OH HOW WE LOVE PRISONPLANET!!!1

4/3/2006 2:14:58 PM

Those are video clips. Are you disputing the authenticity of the video?

4/3/2006 2:16:03 PM

if it's on prisonplanet, then yes.

how do i know who joe schmoe is in the video?

how do i know it's not some nutjob with a tin-foil volunteer firefighter hat who thinks he's figured out that EXPERTS are full of shit, all of them?

how do i know it's not your boyfriend?

4/3/2006 2:19:22 PM

I am disputing the authenticity of the clips...

i believe that alex jones has a habit of forging videos. How easy would it be to put the MSNBC logo on a video. I have done that before myself. Plus with all the videotechnology out there, prisonplanet would have no problem creating these videos. They should have done a better job with the quality of them though. The audio is shaky at best.

4/3/2006 2:21:06 PM

Quote :

"I am disputing the authenticity of the clips... i believe that alex jones has a habit of forging videos."

What a joke. When has Alex Jones EVER "forged" a video? Do you have any evidence he has ever done such a thing?

And is the NY Times in on it too? Did they fabricate those eyewitness testimonies where the emergency personnel describe a ground shake before the collapse and explosions going off just before and during the collapses?


Are these photographs "forged" as well?

PICTURES OF WORLD TRADE CENTER DEMOLITION


Notice how far the steel beams and debri are shooting out to the side of the tower. Is the tower really "pancaking" as the government claims? Or would this be explained by the explosive charges going off?



Notice the clear demolition "squib" (expulsion of gas and dust well below the collapsing portion)



Again, is this a "pancake"? Or does it look like a controlled demolition? And notice the demolition "squibs" below the collapsing portion.



What happened to the angular momentum of the top portion? Why did this portion fall straight down and crumble to dust? Why didn't it topple over? And, once again, does this look like the building is "pancaking"? Or does it look like explosions are going off?


VIDEOS OF WTC COLLAPSE

Watch the videos of the WTC collapse and judge for yourself if they were controlled demolitions or collapses from a “pancake” theory as the government claims.:

WTC collapse video and pictures archive:
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/


[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : ```]

4/3/2006 2:26:38 PM

Quote :

"What a joke. When has Alex Jones EVER "forged" a video? Do you have any evidence he has ever done such a thing? And is the NY Times in on it too? Did they fabricate those eyewitness testimonies where the emergency personnel describe a ground shake before the collapse and explosions going off just before and during the collapse?"

When has he NOT forged videos?!?!!?.....show me evidence that ANY of those videos is real!! Is the NY Times in on it?? A newpaper article is easier to forge than a movie!!!!

personally...i think every single one of those pictures you just posted has been completely photoshopped.....and even in spite of that fact, they still dont prove anything....this is nothing more than an attempt to cast doubt on the official story...but it is done using lies and deceit....alex jones is an embarrasement to his cause

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:34 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/3/2006 2:31:58 PM

I guess Village Voice may have been fooled by all these "forged" videos and photographs as well?

VILLAGE VOICE QUESTIONS WHY WTC BUILDING 7 AND THE TWIN TOWERS FELL

http://villagevoice.com/news/0549,murphy,70685,6.html

Quote :

"Open and Shut Four years later, we still have ten big questions by Jarrett Murphy December 5th, 2005 [...] 6. Why did 7 WTC fall? [...] 7. How did the twin towers fall? Many FDNY personnel who saw the south tower collapse reported explosions at the lower levels as the top began collapsing. These reports, as well as "squibs" of smoke seen on video of the collapses, have led to theories that the towers were brought down in controlled explosions. NIST dismisses these notions, claiming that the puffs of smoke were the result of air being forced down by the top of the tower collapsing. NIST said the towers fell because the planes shook fireproofing loose from the steel superstructure, and the fire heated the floor-supporting trusses so much that they pulled in on support columns that were already holding more than their regular load. But NIST's computer simulation stops at the point the collapse begins, and does not document exactly how the rest of the buildings crumbled in 10 seconds. The reason for this omission could be the sheer complexity of the computations—even NIST's simplified model took weeks to run on a computer. Conspiracy theorists aren't the only ones who dispute NIST's version: Some fire scientists also take issue with the institute's methods and conclusions. And the point isn't just historical. The lessons learned from the WTC collapse will inform decisions about the safety of other modern office towers."

4/3/2006 2:39:45 PM

they obviously have....its a shame

but its obvious to just about everyone else that alex jones is complete sham who creates these videos and images to further decieve people and further his cause

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:43 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/3/2006 2:42:35 PM

So, do you really believe that the Emergency Personnel Tape testimonies, as reported above by the NY Times, are "forgeries" also?

Quote :

"its obvious to just about everyone else that alex jones is complete sham who creates these videos and images to further decieve people and further his cause"

It's "obvious"? Do you have any proof to back up these allegations against Alex Jones?


[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ```]

4/3/2006 2:45:04 PM

those photos actually hurt your cause if you ask me

you should hope they are forged

4/3/2006 2:48:28 PM

proof?!!?....look around!!...there is nothing but proof everywhere...you are too blind to see it...


and i suppose you have some more evidence relating to those NY times articles...it doenst matter...one legit thing out of thousands of lies does not make the whole thing legit...


what a sham..and you buy right into it....

4/3/2006 2:49:38 PM

What about WTC Building 7? Is anyone going to dispute that it was brought down in a controlled demolition? Oh, right, the evidence in this case is "forgeries" also?

WTC Complex Leaseholder Larry Silverstein admitted in PBS documentary that WTC 7 was brought down in controlled demolition:
1 minute video clip: http://infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV

Quote :

""I remember getting a call from the Fire Department Commander telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is 'pull it.' And they made that decision to pull, and then we watched the building collapse." --Larry Silverstein (WTC leaseholder)"

"Pull" and "pull it" are industry terms for triggering a controlled demolition. To make this perfectly clear, here is another video clip from the same PBS documentary where the term "pull" is used to describe beginning a controlled demolition on WTC Building 6.

video: http://thewebfairy.com/911/pullit/pull-it2_lo.wmv


WTC 7 Collapse footage. Watch the demolition charges going off at the top right of WTC 7 in the following video clip. Also notice how the center of building collapses first:
http://www.infowars.com/Video/911/WTC7COLLAPSE2.WMV


Here are some still pictures from the video of the collapse of WTC 7:



Notice the clear demolition squibs at upper right of building.


[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 2:51 PM. Reason : `]

4/3/2006 2:51:07 PM

hahaha yea those are real clear

4/3/2006 2:52:52 PM

Quote :

"What about WTC Building 7? Is anyone going to dispute that it was brought down in a controlled demolition? Oh, right, the evidence in this case is "forgeries" also?"

thats right...they are forgeries


and that picture has so OBVIOUSLY been photoshopped its ridiculous...

4/3/2006 2:53:17 PM

the twin towers were not a controlled demolition though
unless you consider the government flying a plane into them a controlled demolition, cause thats what happened

4/3/2006 2:55:03 PM

Quote :

"and that picture has so OBVIOUSLY been photoshopped its ridiculous..."

Yeah, it's SOOOOOOO "obvious"....haha. What a joke.

Here's the WTC 7 Collapse footage (from which those photos came) which shows the demolition charges going off at the top right of the building. Also notice how the center of building collapses first:
http://www.infowars.com/Video/911/WTC7COLLAPSE2.WMV

But this video is a "forgery" too, right?

4/3/2006 2:57:18 PM

you cant deny tower 7 was brought down in a controlled demolition, its proven fact

4/3/2006 2:58:43 PM

wow....nice comeback salis...."what a joke!!...ha ha ha"....

yes...the photoshop is obviuos...you have clearly got no understanding of what a faked photo looks like

show me some real evidence...not some fake crap

4/3/2006 2:59:00 PM

its not photoshopped

4/3/2006 2:59:38 PM

yeah....clearly it is

4/3/2006 3:00:29 PM

I guess these Sydney Morning Herald and BBC articles are "forgeries" as well?


CONCLUSIVE PROOF THE U.S. WAS PLANNING TO INVADE AFGHANISTAN PRIOR TO 9/11

A battle plan for Afghanistan was being reviewed by the US Command 4 MONTHS before the 9/11 attacks:

Sydney Morning Herald: "Defence redefined means securing cheap energy"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/25/1040511092926.html

Quote :

""As far back as 1975, Henry Kissinger, then secretary of state, said America was prepared to wage war over oil. Separate plans advocating US conquest of Saudi oilfields were published in the '70s. So it should come as little surprise that in May last year - four months before the terrorist attacks on Washington and New York - a battle plan for Afghanistan was already being reviewed by the US Command that would carry it out after September 11. Military strategists were highlighting the energy wealth of the Caspian Sea and Central Asia and its importance to America's "security"."

More confirmation:

BBC-"US 'planned attack on Taleban'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

Quote :

"A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks."

Prisonplanet's "Pre-Sept. 11 plan to invade Afghanistan" Archive:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#preplan

4/3/2006 3:01:42 PM

no... clearly its not

i to prove my point you will never ever show how it was photoshopped

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ^i already posted that]

4/3/2006 3:02:12 PM

no..those are legit....and not relevant at all...

4/3/2006 3:02:16 PM

Quote :

"CONCLUSIVE PROOF THE U.S. WAS PLANNING TO INVADE AFGHANISTAN PRIOR TO 9/11"

newsflash..we have a plan to invade every country in the world, even canada.

4/3/2006 3:03:02 PM

he look, heres proof that that photo was not altered:

FAKE OSAMA BIN LADEN TAPES

No real evidence has been discovered or presented that links Osama bin Laden to the 9/11
attacks. Bin Laden has repeatedly denied any role in the attacks, and the video and audio tapes
put forward by the U.S. supposedly as evidence of bin Laden taking credit for the attacks have
turned out to be fakes, mistranslations, or otherwise tampered with.

You might be saying, "but bin Laden has confessed to being responsible for the 9/11 attacks,
right?" Well, let's take a closer look at that.

Here is a CNN article referring to a Dec. 2001 video tape that supposedly shows bin Laden taking credit for the 9/11 attacks:

CNN: "Bin Laden on tape: Attacks 'benefited Islam greatly'"
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/

Now, take a close look at picture of the man from that tape that is purportedly the real Osama bin Laden.

Here is a comparison of the photo of the man from that video tape and a photo of the real
Osama bin Laden:



It is obvious that the man from the Dec. 2001 tape is not the real Osama bin Laden.

This is not the only example of a phony tape being used. Even the tapes that show the
real Osama bin Laden have been "doctored." In some tapes, portions of the audio have been
intentionally mistranslated in order to decieve. In other tapes, the audio has been tampered
with. Here is a BBC article claiming that a tape showing the real bin Laden is fake because the
voice in the tape is not the voice of bin Laden:

Bin Laden tape 'not genuine'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2526309.stm

Osama bin Laden consistently denied being behind the attacks. Here are two articles
demonstrating this. Note that the second article below is an extended interview with bin
Laden. It is a very interesting read. I have quoted some particularly interesting portions
of that interview below.

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

September 2001 Interview with bin Laden
http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

Quote :

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. ...The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. ...Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United States? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks." ...I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the [U.S. Government] system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom. This system is totally in control of the American-Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them." --Osama bin Laden"

More articles examining this issue:

The Fake bin Laden Video Tape
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html

Is the 2004 Bin Laden Video Tape A Fraud?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape2.html

"Fatty" bin Laden
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/binladinvideo.html

Another Phony Bin Laden Tape
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/phony_bin_laden_tape.html

4/3/2006 3:04:08 PM

haha...what?

because i was obviosly talking about a photo of bin ladin....or not

and salis...what does a plan to invade afghanistan have to do with a fake picture that you used as evidence?? why are you trying so hard to change the subject unless you really know that alex jones us full of crap?? thats pretty suspicious man?

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 3:10 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/3/2006 3:06:13 PM

so you're saying that is really him, wow

4/3/2006 3:09:22 PM

Quote :

"i believe that alex jones has a habit of forging videos"

Quote :

"personally...i think every single one of those pictures you just posted has been completely photoshopped"

Quote :

"and i suppose you have some more evidence relating to those NY times articles...it doenst matter...one legit thing out of thousands of lies does not make the whole thing legit... "

Quote :

"show me some real evidence...not some fake crap"

This needs to be said again:

Quote :

"Some people will continue to deny the truth to their deathbeds even if it is right in front of their face. But even if you deny it now, more than likely you will have to acknowledge it later because the evidence is overwhelming. And if you continue to deny the obvious, you do not matter. The future is for those who have the courage to acknowledge and face the truth. The choice is yours."

And the denials are starting to get more and more desperate now. And entertaining.


[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 3:10 PM. Reason : `]

4/3/2006 3:09:50 PM

Quote :

"so you're saying that is really him, wow"

where did i say that? im not saying that. why are you being so defensive? clearly thats not him. and clearly its not relevant to this discussion at all. wow


as to the denials of what actually happened (the official story...)...

Quote :

"And the denials are starting to get more and more desperate now. And entertaining. "

...aint that the truth

[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 3:12 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/3/2006 3:11:15 PM

Here is a photograph of the plane that suposedly crashed into the second tower hit:

Quote :

"N612UA Msn 21873 ln 41 On September 11, 2001, this aircraft was hijacked by terrorist swine and crashed in the south tower of New York's World Trade Center. RIP. http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N612UA&distinct_entry=true"

Now, compare that picture with the picture of the plane hitting the tower:

Quote :

"This is no Boeing 767-200 because: 1. white light shines out of both alleged “jet engines”, 2. a “pod” protrudes from the underbelly of the “plane”, 3. the tail tip and underbelly’s streak are off-color. 1. The “real” hijacked United Airways flight 175 (WTC south tower) was a Boeing 767-200 with registration number N612UA. Its jet engines were two Pratt & Whitney JT9D turbofans. Turbofans never emit any light. Their rear view is always dark. It is technically impossible for them to play “street lamp” like in the photo. 2. The “pod” does not belong there. 3. The hijacked Boeing 767-200 with registration number N612UA was painted black on the underbelly....The underbelly is plain black, whereas the belly of the flying object at WTC2 shows up gray and has a bright streak running down the middle. http://www.gallerize.com/new/Gallerize.News.03.10.17.htm"

4/3/2006 3:12:32 PM

salisburyboy, ur the last person to make this statement:

Quote :

"Some people will continue to deny the truth to their deathbeds even if it is right in front of their face. But even if you deny it now, more than likely you will have to acknowledge it later because the evidence is overwhelming. And if you continue to deny the obvious, you do not matter. The future is for those who have the courage to acknowledge and face the truth. The choice is yours"

4/3/2006 3:16:23 PM

On the nose of a Boeing 757...

Quote :

"Let us imagine for a moment that we had not been told that the aircraft had disintegrated, melted and evaporated. The question then is: Is it possible for the nose of an airliner to penetrate three buildings and, as it leaves the third, produce a perfectly circular hole, 2 ½ yards wide ? The nose of an aircraft, the radome, contains its electronic navigation equipment. To enable the transmission of signals, the nose is not made of metal but carbon. Its shape has been designed to be aerodynamic but is not crash resistant. The inside casing, as well as its contents, are extremely fragile. The nose would crush on impact with an obstacle, not penetrate it. ...It is not actually possible to find the nose of an aircraft after such an impact. So it is not an aircraft nose that could have produced the hole visible in the third ring of the building. http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/missile_en.htm"

4/3/2006 3:19:08 PM

Quote :

"if this was a controlled demolition, dont u think people would have noticed the explosives being planted AND wired up wherever they were placed? to bring down buildings of that size would require a significant amount of explosives and det-cord (detonation cord for those lacking)."

You have the same "problem" with WTC Buidling 7. Larry Silverstein, the WTC leaseholder, admitted in a PBS documentary that they brought down WTC 7 in a controlled demolition. And, remember, WTC 7 was a 47-story building that collapsed around 5:30pm on September 11th. The explosives in WTC 7 had to have been placed in the building well before 9/11, because it takes a long time to wire buildings of that size for a controlled demolition.

So, the explosives were clearly placed in WTC 7 beforehand. Now, why is it so hard to believe the same was done with the twin towers?

4/3/2006 3:21:45 PM

“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.”

— Julius Caesar


“Today, Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow, they will be grateful. This is especially true, if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond – whether real or promulgated – that threatened our very existence. It is then that all the peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing that every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished with the guarantee of their well-being, granted to them by their world government.”

— Henry Kissinger, at the Bilderberg Conference in Evians, France, 1991

4/3/2006 3:31:21 PM

"A quote from some old guy which proves something beyond a shadow of a doubt"

yeah yeah yeah....this is just more proof of the desperation with which you guys operate. There is NO proof of a government conspiracy at all. You can only hope you create doubt in people with absurd quotes and deceive them with fake photographs and videos.

4/3/2006 3:51:36 PM

Quote :

"There is NO proof of a government conspiracy at all."

Are there any government conspiracies? Did not the Bush Administration just deliberately deceive the public in order to trick us into war against Iraq? Did not the U.S. Government deliberately lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident as the pretext for the Vietnam War? And did not the U.S. Government plan in the 1960s to fake hijacking planes and terrorize U.S. Cities and then blame it on Cuba to serve as the pretext for a war against Cuba (ie, the "Operation Northwoods" plan)?

There is a long track record of the U.S. Government using deception, and even planning to kill and terrorize it's own citizens, in order to start wars. And the Zionists and neo-cons around the Bush Administration have been wanting to go to war to take control of the Middle East and Central Asian region for a long time. The 9/11 attacks were the "crisis" needed to get the public behind these wars, including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and now maybe Iran.

Quote :

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor. --Rebuilding America’s Defences: Strategy, Forces and Resrouces For a New Century, page 51 http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf"

(see top of page 51 of pdf document above...page 63 of 90 in display):

They got their "catastrophic and catalyzing event" just a year later on September 11th, 2001. Coincidence?

Quote :

"You can only hope you create doubt in people with absurd quotes and deceive them with fake photographs and videos."

Are pathetic denials such as the above really supposed to persuade anyone to join your side and believe the government's "official" story on 9/11? Sorry, but weak denial tactics, such as trying to brush off the evidence I'm presenting as "fake" is just not going to work. The facts and evidence are on our side, and conclusively show that the "official" story is completely bogus.


[Edited on April 3, 2006 at 4:10 PM. Reason : `]

4/3/2006 4:03:48 PM

everything that anyone else (fox, msnbc,bbc, ny times) post is fake...But everything Alex Jones post is real...nice logic.

Im not saying that 9/11 wasn't some inside job. But it's not a fair assessment to say that everyone else is wrong and Alex Jones is the "oracle" of truth. Think about that salisburyboy. Seriously.

4/3/2006 4:09:01 PM

Quote :

"Did not the Bush Administration just deliberately deceive the public in order to trick us into war against Iraq?"

absolutely not....if you werent so deceived by alex jones you would see that...but you buy into it man...you completely take the bait....its just too bad

the burden of proof is on you my friend. the vast majority of the population knows the truth about 9/11. The truth is official story and the facts and evidence prove it. I dont have to sway anyone to my side because anyone with any sense is already on my side. So if you want to sway people, come up with something more than weak attempts to cast doubt in peoples minds and fake pictures.

4/3/2006 4:14:02 PM

Quote :

"But it's not a fair assessment to say that everyone else is wrong and Alex Jones is the "oracle" of truth. Think about that salisburyboy. Seriously."

Where did I ever say that Alex Jones is the "oracle of truth." I never have. Apparantly, you get the idea that I said or suggested that from others who are trying to paint me that way. I've made it clear before that I disagree with Alex Jones on several issues, including his playing down of the Zionist role in 9/11 and Zionist control over our government.

Quote :

"everything that anyone else (fox, msnbc,bbc, ny times) post is fake...But everything Alex Jones post is real...nice logic."

Around 75-80% of the articles on Alex Jones' websites are "mainstream" articles. Jones makes it a point to use "mainstream" sources to support virtually all of his claims. And, if you'll notice, most of the articles I have posted in this thread are from "mainstream" sources.

4/3/2006 4:15:40 PM

great...so you are MORE of a lunatic than alex jones




OMG AD HOMINEWFDAEFVAEEEEAM!!!

4/3/2006 4:24:15 PM