^you need to start off by learning some basic grammar before you discuss anything more complex than that

but yeah i guess its hard for someone with a diehard liberal opinion of global warming to argue with someone like me who has a middle of the road opinion on global warming...i agree with some of your points yet you dismiss any of mine

6/22/2006 12:54:47 PM

Quote :

"there is evidence that supports global warming and evidence that refutes it"

You keep alluding to this awesome scientific evidence that refutes it. Plz to share.

Quote :

"there is not enough definite evidence for one side or the other to make any rational conclusion"

Again, plz to share stuff from the other side. Or is it that all the current evidence points towards anthropogenic climate change, but there's not yet enough of said evidence to convince you? That'd be understandable, actually. [no joke]

Quote :

"i personally am agnostic about global warming...maybe its real maybe its not"

You know, the jury's still out on evolution, too



[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/22/2006 12:57:38 PM

If everything you said wasn't so fucking stupid i wouldn't have to disagree with it all .... Excuse the language by the way, just used for emphasis.

6/22/2006 12:59:04 PM

man, young college liberals are fucking hilarious...i remember back when i was one of them...before i joined the real world...ah, good times

Quote :

"Again, plz to share stuff from the other side."

please to read the whole thread

Quote :

"You know, the jury's still out on evolution, too"

i believe in evolution myself...but you know what? nobody fucking knows...maybe i'm tentative to jump to conclusions but you fuckers jump to conclusions before you get the whole story...thats the main problem...im still getting new data and new ideas...im not some 20 year old that thinks they know everything

6/22/2006 1:06:52 PM

<--- in the real world

6/22/2006 1:07:56 PM

Whats the big deal with a bunch of CO2 in the air? The stuff is completely non-toxic and it serves as plant food. It's not like mean temperatures are up all that much anyway.

The greenhouse effects of CO2 have been mostly counteracted by anti-greenhouse effects of other particulates released in fossil fuel emissions. But thats a little secret that environmentalists won't tell you.

6/22/2006 1:11:23 PM

i remember hearing in the early 90s that if we didnt immediately implement hybrid cars, the earth would essentially be lifeless within 10 years because of the "hole" in the ozone layer...i believed them...i also believed them when they told me that aerosol spray cans were the significant cause of the depletion...why didnt they ever mention volcanos?

but im still here driving my SUV

so forgive me for not jumping to conclusions as quickly as some of you

6/22/2006 1:14:12 PM

it's a vast left-wing conspiracy!!!!

6/22/2006 1:14:50 PM

well they gotta do something to try and get people on their side for the next presidential elections...i dont think that whole "George Bush is bad" platform is gonna work when Bush cant run for re-election

6/22/2006 1:16:06 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/06/22/global.warming.ap/index.html from today's news.

Liberal rhetoric! Lies, lies, lies! Its all a big scam, folks. We're doing nothing wrong!

6/22/2006 1:17:10 PM

Quote :

"Whats the big deal with a bunch of CO2 in the air? The stuff is completely non-toxic and it serves as plant food. It's not like mean temperatures are up all that much anyway. The greenhouse effects of CO2 have been mostly counteracted by anti-greenhouse effects of other particulates released in fossil fuel emissions. But thats a little secret that environmentalists won't tell you."

cite plz?

Quote :

"i remember hearing in the early 90s that if we didnt immediately implement hybrid cars, the earth would essentially be lifeless within 10 years because of the "hole" in the ozone layer...i believed them...i also believed them when they told me that aerosol spray cans were the significant cause of the depletion...why didnt they ever mention volcanos?"

Who the hell said this? Cite plz?

6/22/2006 1:18:55 PM

Hey, let's have a race. I'll try to get rid of aerosol spray cans and you can try to get rid of volcanoes. Let's see who finishes first!

6/22/2006 1:21:41 PM

Global dimming from aerosols and fossil fuel particulates is the main reason why we haven't seen the spike in temperatures that these carbon cycle models predict. Europe's stringent anti-pollution measures may actually make the Earth hotter in the short term.

Quote :

"It is currently thought that the effect of global dimming is probably due to the increased presence of aerosol particles in the atmosphere. Aerosol particles and other particulate pollutants absorb solar energy and reflect sunlight back into space. The pollutants can also become nuclei for cloud droplets. It is thought that the water droplets in clouds coalesce around the particles. Increased pollution, resulting in more particulates, creates clouds consisting of a greater number of smaller droplets, which in turn makes them more reflective, therefore bouncing more sunlight back into space. "

Quote :

"In 2005 Wild et al. and Pinker et al. found that the "dimming" trend had reversed since about 1990 [4]. It is likely that at least some of this change; particularly over Europe, is due to decreases in pollution. Most governments of developed nations have done more to reduce aerosols released into the atmosphere which help global dimming instead of reducing CO2 emissions. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming



[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:30 PM. Reason : 2]

6/22/2006 1:25:10 PM

Quote :

"I was arguing against the person (you) who was implying that Crichton has any credibility on the subject."

Look, I'm the one that brought Critchon into this thread by saying that there is a lot of data posted in his fictional book "state of fear". This data is footnoted, and comes from REAL scienitific journals/publications. We're not talking about Critchon's opinion about anything.

Quote :

"Humans are releasing more CO2 than the earth is naturally. Clearly we are capable of screwing it up"

Guess what, the OCEAN releases more CO2 every year than human actitivity.

6/22/2006 1:34:07 PM

Quote :

"Some scientists now consider that the effects of global dimming have masked the effect of global warming to some extent"

v.

Quote :

"The greenhouse effects of CO2 have been mostly counteracted by anti-greenhouse effects of other particulates released in fossil fuel emissions. But thats a little secret that environmentalists won't tell you."

masked [...] to some extent = mostly counteracted?

gg

6/22/2006 1:34:50 PM

boonedocks

go back and read the whole thread for all the sources you're looking for

that means click the Page [1], not the 5

6/22/2006 1:38:13 PM

Quote :

"Guess what, the OCEAN releases more CO2 every year than human actitivity. "

That is a really stupid argument. The ocean also absorbs CO2. It's a stoichiometric balance between atmospheric CO2 and HCO3 in the ocean, which fluctuates naturally.




[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:44 PM. Reason : 2]

6/22/2006 1:38:28 PM

Quote :

"This data is footnoted, and comes from REAL scienitific journals/publications. We're not talking about Critchon's opinion about anything."

Nothing, I repeat NOTHING with REAL footnotes to REAL academic journals can be biased. Especially coming from a fiction writer who considers environmentalism to be a religion.

Quote :

"Guess what, the OCEAN releases more CO2 every year than human actitivity."

It also absorbs CO2, genius.

6/22/2006 1:41:08 PM

then how about all the methane emitted from termites, ants, etc....?

6/22/2006 1:41:15 PM

^^plants also absorb CO2 genius

Quote :

"which fluctuates naturally"

wait, i thought only humans impacted the earth, al gore said so

6/22/2006 1:41:33 PM

^wanna make up more stuff?

6/22/2006 1:41:51 PM

^no i'm not running for president in 2008

6/22/2006 1:42:35 PM

Boonedocks: Large-scale models have predicted a much larger increase in mean temperature than we have observed. Global dimming has had a very significant in counteracting the greenhouse effects of CO2.

Mean temperatures are lower in the east coast of the US than they were 50 or 100 years ago, despite the jump in CO2 levels. Global dimming is the main reason why. Do some research if you have to, its pretty well documented.

6/22/2006 1:44:20 PM

^^so what is this about:

Quote :

"wait, i thought only humans impacted the earth, al gore said so"

i've heard al gore speak about this topic (i have yet to see the movie) but i've heard him on a talk show, and his position more nuanced and informed than this.

it's not like he's been doing this presentation for years to small crowds of people or anything

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:46 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/22/2006 1:45:35 PM

yeah, ever since 2000 he's been doing this

6/22/2006 1:46:24 PM

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:46 PM. Reason : g]

6/22/2006 1:46:42 PM

AL GORE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE HE'S A POLITICIAN WHO DIDNT TAKE US TO WAR

^they're not gonna read that because they already have their minds made up

6/22/2006 1:47:02 PM

^x5 So anthropogenic climate change is real and caused by human-released CO2, but hopefully our other pollutants will save us?

Umm, how about we just cut down on the C02, thx.


Also, does global dimming account for particulates making their way into glacial ice and darkening it?


^^ JESUS, HOW MANY TIMES ARE PEOPLE GOING TO LINK TO THAT ARTICLE FROM THAT UNKNOWN E-PAPER FROM SOMEWHERE IN CANADA? THE AUTHOR IS A MECHANICAL ENGINEER LOBBYIST.

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/22/2006 1:49:06 PM

boonedocks what kind of hybrid car do you drive? have you taken the initiative to get your car converted to ethanol? have you stopped exhaling?

6/22/2006 1:51:52 PM

I drive a civic hatch (~45 mpg), and drive only as much as I need to and stay below 65.

6/22/2006 1:54:57 PM

Quote :

"AL GORE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE HE'S A POLITICIAN WHO DIDNT TAKE US TO WAR ^they're not gonna read that because they already have their minds made up "

i just read it

and it basically said that it's not proven. also, this piece was written by an employee of "high parks group" which is a think tank who is especially secretive about who their clients are.

6/22/2006 1:55:34 PM

particulates fall out of the air much faster than CO2. A CO2 spike has an atmospheric life expectancy of several thousand years, unlike most particulates which will fall out of the air in a few weeks or months. Even if we cut CO2 emissions off RIGHT NOW, the CO2 in the air isn't going anywhere soon. It'll be there for a while, and it's greenhouse effects will contribute to higher global temperatures.


Aerosols can stay in the air for a long time.

We should be researching non-polluting, sunlight-reflecting aerosols to counteract the CO2, since it's not going anywhere.

6/22/2006 1:55:53 PM

Quote :

"http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm"

Of course Canadians want to shut Gore up. They WANT more global warming because it's so fuckin cold up there.

6/22/2006 1:57:04 PM

Quote :

"stay below 65"

hahaha, you pussy.

For the record my car has a 1.7 liter engine. I plan on buying another faster, fun car in the future. However that car's engine will be no larger than 2.2 liters and will meet ULEV standards. happy fuckers?

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:58 PM. Reason : k]

6/22/2006 1:58:16 PM

^^i did find that the think tank that guy works for has done work for canadian energy companies and the tobacco industry.

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 1:59 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/22/2006 1:58:49 PM

The bifecta of good causes.

^^bravo.



[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/22/2006 1:59:31 PM

Isn't it funny that Tree trys to paint anyone with views different from his own a left wing wacko, but then he posts links to a right wing conspiracy pulp mag from canada.... With a front page article that was talking about zionist's agendas for fuck's sake...

6/22/2006 2:31:47 PM

This is actually a serious question to PrawnStar... The particulates you speak of that are dimming the earth are these CFCs and if so hasnt the production of these almost stopped...? I also read an article in the Charlotte observer that the Ozone hole is healing...

6/22/2006 2:34:11 PM

Quote :

"Global dimming is the gradual reduction in the amount of global hemispherical irradiance (or total solar irradiance) at the Earth's surface, observed since the beginning of systematic measurements in 1950s. The effect varies by location, but worldwide it is of the order of a 5% reduction over the three decades from 1960–1990. This trend has reversed during the past decade. Global dimming creates a cooling effect that may have partially masked the effect of greenhouse gases on global warming."

[Edited on June 22, 2006 at 2:36 PM. Reason : quotes...]

6/22/2006 2:36:32 PM

Oh and since we're linking to wikipedia today so much...

Read this and find the faults if you can.... Because its deffinitely written by left wing liberal wackos....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

6/22/2006 2:40:07 PM

oh and while you're learning grammar, learn how to edit posts as well

btw while you are criticizing my "right wing conspiracy pulp mag from canada" (that TKE-Teg posted, not me), stop posting stuff from your left wing conspiracy pulp mags

6/22/2006 5:48:47 PM

so no response that you pushed an article by someone who was most likely paid by an energy concern, huh?

6/22/2006 5:51:29 PM

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2006/06/scientists_respond_to_gores_wa.php

6/22/2006 5:54:23 PM

Quote :

"so no response that you pushed an article by someone who was most likely paid by an energy concern, huh?"

holy shit, can you read anything?

Quote :

"while you are criticizing my "right wing conspiracy pulp mag from canada" (that TKE-Teg posted, not me), "

\message_topic.aspx?topic=415510&page=5#8939930

Quote :

"Isn't it funny that Tree trys to paint anyone with views different from his own a left wing wacko, but then he posts links to a right wing conspiracy pulp mag from canada.... With a front page article that was talking about zionist's agendas for fuck's sake..."

again...i didnt post that link...but i wouldnt expect you to be able to do something simple like, i dunno, see a url link and then look at the username of the person who posted it

6/22/2006 5:56:34 PM

ok. sorry about that, honest mistake. then i'll just direct that comment at tke-teg.

6/22/2006 6:02:14 PM

well fair enough i can understand people making mistakes

6/22/2006 6:04:43 PM

my bad too... Hard to tell the difference between your idiotic posts and his... ... I'm sorry.

6/22/2006 6:21:18 PM

maybe if you took your time it wouldnt be so difficult

6/22/2006 6:28:20 PM

Just saw it. Thought it was very good as a presentation, but not really anything remarkable as a film. I'd definitely recommend seeing it, but I doubt anybody who needs to see it will see it.

6/23/2006 1:09:48 AM

anybody wanna go see that new michael moore movie? all americans need to see this movie

6/23/2006 10:31:42 AM