Yeah man good comparison.

First of all Trent Dilfer only played 9 games that season so it's tough to give him wins for the games he didnt even play in.


Second of all that's one of the most elite defenses of all time. They won games in spite of Dilfer, not because of him.

How did Dilfer do the other ~10 years of his career?

No one is dumb enough to argue the Falcons win in spite of Vick.

Because when Vick doesn't play, the Falcons lose.... a lot.

10/1/2006 9:50:41 PM

and when he does play, they win.... a little over 50% of the time!

10/1/2006 9:52:24 PM

they look pretty good when Matt Schaub is playing

in fact vick's the reason they keep him on board

10/1/2006 9:53:48 PM

^exactly.

Schaub is a quality QB and would start for a lot of NFL teams.

10/1/2006 9:59:03 PM

Quote :

"Because when Vick doesn't play, the Falcons lose.... a lot. "

I hate this argument when used with Vick.

You've got an offense that if not completely geared, is at least used to running with a QB who runs a 4.4 forty and is more elusive than 90% of the leagues WRs and RBs. Then he gets hurt and you put in a stationary QB who rarely leaves the pocket and you expect them to do well??? Their offense turns a complete 180. Teams focus in on the run and their below average passing game gets exposed.

It's an EXTREMELY difficult situation for a "normal" QB to come in and succeed in. Although I think Schaub gives a damn valiant effort.

[Edited on October 1, 2006 at 9:59 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2006 9:59:18 PM

Well its too bad Schaub has such a shitty record as a starter for the Falcons. Its crazy that he's such a good QB yet he cant win a game.


and what are you talking about a little over 50% of the time?

He has well over a 50% winning record...

13-3. Do the math. Thats nowhere close to 50%

With one of the worst defenses in the league last year he what 8-7?

How many QB's can do that?


On a game by game basis, Vick gets it done a lot more often than not. Sure he doesnt have the gaudy passing stats... that's because he's consistently effective. He doesnt throw for 335 yards in a loss like Drew Bledsoe... he doesn't have HUGE passing games, he just consistently wins games by being a top notch QB.

[Edited on October 1, 2006 at 10:01 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on October 1, 2006 at 10:02 PM. Reason : a]

10/1/2006 10:00:44 PM

haha i love how you base his entire career on one really good year... what about all the other years? what about his career average? what about his playoff average? damn, he's only been once but guess what his average is..... 50%

10/1/2006 10:02:34 PM

dude.

your stats are just too wrong for me to comment on.

He's been to the playoffs twice.


Your numbers arent close.

I breathe the NFL. He's good. Ive seen all but about 4 of his starts. He dominates football games.

I know you've watched him play 2-3 times and you think you know, but you just don't.

10/1/2006 10:06:55 PM

Quote :

"He dominates football some games."

I think you're over-using the word dominate.

10/1/2006 10:10:20 PM

dude. my bad, you are correct on him going to the playoffs twice... guess what though, still 50%... the only stat you have posted is 13-3 in one year of his career... if you wanna go by that the Trent Dilfer argument is valid, even more so when you consider he topped his one good year off with a superbowl

10/1/2006 10:11:12 PM

whats Peyton Mannings record in the playoffs?

Is he not a good QB?

Peyton has had a GREAT supporting cast his entire career basically.

Edgerrin is an elite back. Harrison is an elite WR. Wayne is one of the best #2 WR's in the game.

Now he even has a good defense.

Is he not the best QB in the game?

It's only ONE position. You cant win Super Bowls by yourself.

How many Super Bowls would Brady have if he played in Atlanta? Zero, of course. How many playoff appearances? 1 maybe???

10/1/2006 10:20:25 PM

How many playoff games would Jacksonville have won last season with Vick at QB?

What about New York?

Tampa Bay?

Chicago?

Denver?

Would the Saints have had a good season despite Katrina with Vick at QB?

Would historically rich, but non-playoff teams like Green Bay, Dallas, San Francisco, Kansas City, and/or Miami have gone to the playoffs with Mike Vick at quarterback?

We could volley this for days, dude...

10/1/2006 11:43:04 PM

Quote :

"When he's clearly a top 10 QB and id still rank him as a top 5 QB."

Hey rally who are you going to knock out of this list to replace them with Vick?

Quote :

"- Peyton Manning - Tom Brady - Carson Palmer - Donovan McNabb - Matt Hasselbeck "

??

10/2/2006 11:05:10 AM

Thats a tough call.
Peyton and Carson are clearly the best two QB's. Anyone who argues that doesn't have a brain.

I'm not a huge McNabb fan normally but he seems to be off to a pretty fast start. It'd be tough for me to definitively rank Vick ahead or behind McNabb right now...

Tom Brady is showing some toughness this year so far. He might emerge as a better QB than Vick, right now its too tough to call...

Hasslebeck I like a lot right now. I'd probably put him ahead of Vick but i dont necessairly trust that guy on a week to week basis. Tough call but i could see someone's logic if they liked him more than Vick. Just to be clear, Hasslebeck SUCKED this week and no one made a five page thread saying he sucks.

10/2/2006 11:28:33 AM

so you concede Vick isnt a top 5 QB?

and yeah hasselbeck, and everybody but josh brown for that matter, on seattle sucked this week...but its not like this vick thread was made yesterday

10/2/2006 11:30:53 AM

Quote :

"Just to be clear, Hasslebeck SUCKED this week and no one made a five page thread saying he sucks."

Probably because there isn't another 5-page thread saying "Hasselback is a Golden God." He was also playing the Bears. And personally, I don't think Hasselback is all that great. I might put him above Vick though.

10/2/2006 11:31:12 AM

Hasselbeck has also led his team to a Superbowl appearance, unlike the Golden God

10/2/2006 11:32:41 AM

I'm just saying its not that uncharacteristic for a QB to have a bad game from time to time. And really, Vick's game last week wasn't all THAT bad given the circumstances...


Peyton has already had a bad game vs the Jaguars at home and a relatively bad game (saved by late game heroics) against the Jets.



No I don't concede that he's not a top 5 QB. I said he's def a top 10 QB and he is ~top 5. He may or may not be this season we'll have to let it play out a little more first.

I mean last year people thought Culpepper was the 2nd best QB in the league and now he's likely on his way out of the NFL. How do you go from being #2 in the league to potentially out of the league in 2-3 years? It's a crazy league...




^ and that's just a stupid argument. Seattle plays in a cake division so they waltzed through the regular season and got the #1 seed. They happen to have the best homefield advantage in the league probably and they got to play Mark Brunell in their first playoff game. In the second game they faced a depleted Panther team that went through NYG and Chi on the road. When Nick Goings is your starting RB and Delhomme throws 3 INT's in the first 11 seconds of the game, it doesnt take much as a QB to win the game.

[Edited on October 2, 2006 at 11:38 AM. Reason : a]

10/2/2006 11:35:35 AM

Quote :

"How do you go from being #2 in the league to potentially out of the league in 2-3 years?"

lose Randy Moss...and fuck up your knee

10/2/2006 11:37:43 AM

Carson Palmer fucked up his knee ~3 months later than Culpepper did and he's back no problem.

Culpepper is flat out TERRIBLE now and its not like he doesnt have any receivers or a good rb. Chambers/McMichael/Ronnie Brown.... its pathetic how bad he is.

Mark fucking Brunell set the NFL RECORD for most consecutive completions against Houston last week and Culpepper cant even score points against them. Hell, he couldnt do anything against the Titans either.

People are actually clamoring for Joey Harrington for gods sake.

10/2/2006 11:40:08 AM

yeah Pep lost something...at least he can still get his roll on while he's facing off against Chad Johnson in Madden

10/2/2006 11:40:43 AM

^^ Palmer got to go back to the same system,
Culpepper is learning a different one

You can't argue either way that Palmer or Culpepper is further along in their recovery than the other... they both opened the regular season for their teams. And the fact that fans are calling for Harrington four games into the season tells you what kind of people they are. This isn't a situation like in Tennessee where the second-string guy is getting paid huge money to someday excite a bored fanbase. It's JOEY HARRINGTON.

10/2/2006 11:44:43 AM

the fact that Palmer, Culpepper and ROFLsberger are all back and pretty healthy is just credit to the advancements in sports medicine

10/2/2006 11:46:45 AM

Culpepper will be out of the league in three years.


The new system argument works sometimes but he can't make throws. Either he improves 100% in the coming weeks or he'll be a backup in like Arizona/San Fran next year.

10/2/2006 11:52:20 AM

Quote :

"How do you go from being #2 in the league to potentially out of the league in 2-3 years? It's a crazy league.."

It has to be a mental thing. He's flat out horrible now.

10/2/2006 11:54:29 AM

2006 QUARTERBACK STATS
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&league=nfl&season=2&year=2006
--------------------------
QB Rating--------- 27th
Completion %----- 29th
Yards------------ 28th
Yards/Att-------- 28th
TDs--------------- 20th(tied with 7 players)
TD% (TDs/Att)---- 20th
Int---------------- 8th(tied with 6 players)
Int% (INT/Att)---- 15th
SACKS TAKEN----- 22nd(tied with 3 players)
QB Rushing Yards-- 1st
QB Rushing TD----- 4th

FACT- There is no doubt that Michael Vick runs the ball better than any QB in the league.
FACT- There is no doubt that Michael Vick throws the ball worse than most QBs in the league.

Superbowls won with a QB who throws, in that particular season, worse than most QBs in the league? NONE

NFL MVPs won by a QB who throws worse than most QBs in the league? NONE

QB Hall of Famers who throw worse than most QBs in the league? NONE

There is no question that there have been many excellent rushing quarterbacks that have gone on to win championships, league MVPs, or Hall of Fame inductions. However, all of those players have something in common... THEY CAN ALSO PASS THE BALL EFFICIENTLY.

10/2/2006 12:15:17 PM

^solid

10/2/2006 12:33:58 PM

Quote :

"Peyton has already had a bad game vs the Jaguars at home and a relatively bad game (saved by late game heroics) against the Jets."

When the thread is titled "Peyton Manning is a Golden God", this statement will be relevant.

10/2/2006 7:04:21 PM

jaws disagrees with this proposial !


he also said that culpepper has a velcro glove for a hand.

10/2/2006 8:53:14 PM

Quote :

"It'd be tough for me to definitively rank Vick ahead or behind McNabb right now..."

how about right now?

10/3/2006 9:52:55 AM

McNabb played well last night against the Packers.


Like I said I'm not a huge McNabb fan... in the first half he looked like Marcus Stone when he kept shortarming everything.

But he has played well this year so far.


The only problem is he's played the Texans 49ers, and Packers.

Let's see how he does against real teams first.

10/3/2006 11:26:00 AM

^no response to firepower?

dude posted a pretty good argument concerning how mediocre Vick is as a QB, and you got nothing?

10/3/2006 11:30:17 AM

Michael Vick is a Golden God









for Valtrex sales reps

10/3/2006 12:32:21 PM

Quote :

"Superbowls won with a QB who throws, in that particular season, worse than most QBs in the league? NONE"

Uh... Trent Dilfer?

10/3/2006 1:48:32 PM

dilfer is an argument against that point, but keep in mind that he only started half the games during the regular season that year.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2006 2:54:23 PM

Quote :

"oh, and just so no one forgets: Rex Grossman>Mike Vick"

10/9/2006 3:26:58 PM

vick was hands down the best qb this week

10/9/2006 3:29:43 PM

^his best week of the season: no overthrown passes.

10/9/2006 3:39:26 PM

Michael Fucking Vick!!!

10/13/2006 12:39:16 AM

24th in the league in passer rating...


only Tennesssee and Oakland have worse team completion percentages. Both of those teams have played two different quarterbacks.

10/13/2006 4:44:35 PM

enough about his stats already

the guy just knows how to win

although the Falcons haven't had back-to-back winning seasons in the history of their franchise

but the guy just knows how to win

10/13/2006 4:45:40 PM

Yeah, only Vick knows how to win!

10/13/2006 4:49:23 PM

bttt for the rare form he's showing today - fumble, int and some ban incompletions - but he has 16 yds rushing!!!

of course eli is 0-1 with an int as well

edit: another fumble by vick - this time he doesn't recover it

[Edited on October 15, 2006 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2006 1:18:58 PM

dont speak too soon.



Like before he scores a TD on a 22 yard run

10/15/2006 2:38:42 PM

It's still a shitty first half.

I love the defensive player for the Giants who was playing Vick in practice.

Reporter: How is your passing??

Giant: It's as good as Vick's.

10/15/2006 2:41:33 PM

warrick dunn 90 yard TD

10/15/2006 2:41:59 PM

1-10-ATL 10 (12:08) W.Dunn up the middle for 90 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

wtf? nice d g-men.

10/15/2006 2:42:11 PM

14/27. Not bad Vick...eclipsing the 50% mark. That's like an amazing throwing day for you...

10/15/2006 4:32:46 PM

^^^^hahahahahahaha


man that Vick is awesome at projecting the ball forward to his receivers in a productive manner.

[Edited on October 15, 2006 at 4:33 PM. Reason : 3]

10/15/2006 4:33:24 PM

Hey,

- As long as we're clear on the fact that Vick led the Falcons to a 14-3 lead in the 3rd quarter I'm okay with anything you want to say.


- As long as we're clear on the fact that the Falcons allowed 260 rushing yards today I'm okay with anything you want to say.


- As long as we're clear on the fact that Vick rushed for another 68 yards today I'm okay with anything you want to say.



^ and good job changing another premise of an argument to fit your needs. That works in politics better than it does on message boards though....

[Edited on October 15, 2006 at 4:42 PM. Reason : a]

10/15/2006 4:40:51 PM