5

6/8/2007 1:48:37 PM

whatever you do, don't balme the employers

6/8/2007 3:05:08 PM

^HA! I worked for a restaurant that the chef told me he kept our kitchen labor costs down by hiring illegals.
He said there were only two legal people in the WHOLE kitchen. He also told me he knew one guy had a dead baby's Social.

6/8/2007 10:21:35 PM

Everything comes down to money.


Dolla Dolla bills yo

6/12/2007 1:11:00 PM

Quote :

"The conservative's answer is to monitor who is here and who isn't. If we had done that, then someone wouldn't have died yesterday."

people die every day from similar accidents and hundreds of others. what makes this one so different. an american could have easily caused the same accident.

6/12/2007 1:25:02 PM

what makes this one different is that the driver at fault was illegal and if the law had been applied
to him then there would not have been this particular accident.

Does that mean that enforcing existing immigration laws will put a stop to accidents ? Obviously not. Would it have prevented this one and others like it, yes.

Identification and border control to start, then make legal immigration easier.

For those illegal immigrants who are already here, deport them if they get into trouble. Otherwise work towards giving them some kind of legal status so that they can be protected by the same laws that we enjoy. If they have stolen identities or done some other crime punish them as you would punish a US citizen.

I don't think we can send them all back, nor should we given that they are often the lifeline for
numerous people back in their home country. But, something needs to change because it is not good to have different laws for different folks. We should welcome them to pay taxes and be identified like everybody in the US already is (social security #s).

Citizenship should only come after they've learned English and passed through the system that we put the rest of the world through. We could dramatically increase the size of the INS ( I forget its stupid new three letter name) by levying a tax on money transfers to other countries like Mexico and China. All of this only works if the states get serious about putting an end to voter fraud, motor-votor needs to be modified. With the national ID card there would be a simple and universal method to judge the Citizenship of the allegedly qualified voter.

I think these things should be addressed one at a time, there is no way to get a "comprehensive" bill through congress which will do anything but suck. Like government the bigger the bill the badder. ( yes I sad badder, deal with it).

6/12/2007 3:20:43 PM

yea, border control, that's what we need. all that does is put more money in the pockets of the border control people who take their money when they enter the country

6/12/2007 9:35:02 PM

you guys better write our senators and express your concerns for them reviving the bill tonight. These fucking leaders are out of their minds.

6/14/2007 9:03:03 PM

closing the border would be good, but not practical because money rules all, deportation would be way too costly, the easiest way is to let them deport themselves. Make the punishment so harsh on employers who hire illegals that the employers would not even think of it for fear of losing their company. The illegals cannot find any jobs, they lose their whole reason for coming here, which was more money and a job. They will be forced to relocate or become a citizen that has to pay taxes like the rest of us.

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 9:20 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2007 9:18:45 PM

i employ mexicans, however they are legal.

the only way you will get them to leave is to enforce the border and fine employers and landlords

the government needs to put into place a national citizen registry that employers and landlords can use to verify it.

drivers licenses need to be impossible to get.

6/15/2007 10:13:15 AM

Sorry for going on a class warfare tangent, but this is all one big scheme to benefit elitist billionaires and corporations, those that buy and control our politicians, so they can pay their workers less, which affects us.

Does anyone know of a middle-class citizen that thinks this bill is a good idea? And if so, do they even represent 3% of the population at best?

[Edited on June 15, 2007 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2007 11:59:24 AM

Here's a transcript between Chris Matthews and Kay Bailey Hutchison on the subject from Tuesday's show:

Quote :

"First up, however: Is President Bush hopelessly off track on immigration? Texas senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is chairman—chairwoman of the Senate Republican Policy Committee. You‘re in the leadership. Does the president answer the question, when you put it to him, and other senators, How are you going to stop illegal immigration? Does he have an answer? SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON ®, TEXAS: Yes. He believes that we must enforce our borders, and he believes that we need some kind of way to deal with the 12 million people. He knows that that‘s the hardest issue. It is the hardest issue. And you have to do it in a way, in my opinion, that isn‘t amnesty but does get those people out of the woodwork, in the system, but without amnesty. MATTHEWS: Twenty years ago, the Senate passed Simpson-Mazzoli. I worked on the Hill at the time. They basically legalized everybody in the country illegally. The word went out south below the border, If you get into America, North America, and you stay here long enough, eventually, they‘ll legalize you, so just get up there -- 12 million people did that. If you legalize everyone here who‘s now illegally, those 12 million, won‘t you have 30 million coming up illegally because they‘ll have gotten the word, Just hide from the government long enough to stay available, and the United States will eventually legalize you. Isn‘t that the message you‘re sending, if you do it Bush‘s way? HUTCHISON: If you do it without a touchback or going home and applying, you have set the precedent that 1986 is exactly what you can do in 2007. We cannot do that. We cannot send that signal. We have to regularize the process now. We have to have the—apply at home before you can come in and get into the system legally provision for... MATTHEWS: Why would anybody do that? Would anybody do that? What‘s so tough about that? HUTCHISON: No, it‘s not tough... MATTHEWS: Well, why is it so hard (INAUDIBLE) it‘s like tagging up in baseball games. HUTCHISON: (INAUDIBLE) you‘re right. MATTHEWS: Well, then why wouldn‘t people say, yes, it‘s great, I snuck in the country, I‘m legal now? HUTCHISON: No. You should require people to go home and apply from outside the country to send the signal that we‘re going to... MATTHEWS: Oh, I see. HUTCHISON: ... apply the law today, and it‘s going to be that way... MATTHEWS: So you can‘t get back in again unless you apply legally. HUTCHISON: That‘s right. Unless you apply legally. MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about the problem we have—you‘ve seen the TV cameras, and living in and representing Texas you know that. Every night on NBC, we show these stock—we call it stock tapes. And you could do it any night in San Diego or in Texas. HUTCHISON: I know. I‘ve seen it. MATTHEWS: You see people running across the border at night. Why would that ever stop? I don‘t understand. I‘ve read the Bush plan, I‘ve understood it, and I don‘t get it. Why would people stop sneaking into the country under this plan? HUTCHISON: You have to enforce the borders. You have to... MATTHEWS: But Bush isn‘t going to do that. HUTCHISON: Well, we have to do it. MATTHEWS: But he isn‘t going to do that! He wants to build a big-tent Republican Party by being nice to Latino illegal immigrants, and it seems like this will be—if this bill passes and you guys pass it, everybody‘s going to celebrate it down in Mexico, but is it going to stop illegal immigration? I guess I‘m asking you the obvious question here. HUTCHISON: Well, we have to—number one, we have to enforce our border. We are a sovereign nation that has to enforce our borders. Now, what you have said, Chris, is exactly what is a problem, that the American people see they don‘t think that government is ever going to do what they say they‘re going to do. MATTHEWS: Do you? HUTCHISON: Well... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: ... faith in this government to enforce the border? HUTCHISON: We have to do it. I mean, we have to enforce border control. Now, will they—Chris, I can... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: ... because I‘ve watched this for 20 years. All the good government people in the world, the people of Kennedy and Alan Simpson, all these wonderful people, and in the end, all they want to do is legalize the people here illegally. And you say, What about enforcement? And all of a sudden, it doesn‘t happen. Like, first of all, how can you—I‘m a small business guy. I‘m running a cafeteria somewhere, in a field somewhere, a vegetable field. I want to hire some people to help me make food every day. So a guy comes in the room, and he says, Can you hire me, or a woman. What do I do to know whether that person‘s in the country legally or not? HUTCHISON: Chris, let me... MATTHEWS: How do I know I‘m hiring somebody legally? HUTCHISON: I don‘t disagree with you at all... MATTHEWS: I don‘t think anything‘s going to change! HUTCHISON: People have a right to be skeptical, but what if we do nothing, and for the next two years, we have 10 million more people and then 10 million more people? MATTHEWS: (INAUDIBLE) Have an ID card you can‘t cheat on. Have an ID card, like when you or I get on an airplane, when you have to be Kay Bailey Hutchison to get on an airplane... HUTCHISON: Right. MATTHEWS: When you go into a hotel, you have to be Kay Bailey—or it‘s fraud. Why don‘t we have the same rule for getting a job in America? You can‘t get a job unless you‘re here legally. But nobody wants to have an ID card. HUTCHISON: Yes, we do. MATTHEWS: Oh! (CROSSTALK) HUTCHISON: It is in the bill. MATTHEWS: Oh, come on! HUTCHISON: It is in the bill. MATTHEWS: Who wants to have an ID card? HUTCHISON: Everybody in America is going to have to have an ID card. MATTHEWS: Well, these clowns that I interview who are running for president—and I won‘t—and I won‘t name them... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: It‘s fine with me. They won‘t admit that. You can‘t get these guys who stand up here on national television and debate to day they‘re for a national ID card. I‘m sorry... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: ... take back the word “clown.” Romney won‘t admit it. Giuliani won‘t admit it. They want to have cards for what they call aliens. What kind of a country would want to live in where only aliens have to have cards? HUTCHISON: Every one... MATTHEWS: They don‘t get it, then, do they. HUTCHISON: You‘re going to have to have a basically verification system in which everyone... MATTHEWS: I‘m all for it. But I don‘t trust these guys to do it. You know, according to “The Washington Post” today, the bill specifically refuses to have a national ID card. It‘s in the article. There will be no national ID card, according to this... HUTCHISON: Chris, if you apply to work in the United States Senate, you have to prove that you‘re in this country legally. You do. You have to show a birth certificate or a passport. You do. Everyone does. MATTHEWS: We have 12 million people working in this country... HUTCHISON: Everyone... MATTHEWS: ... illegally right now without any legal reason to be here. How are they working? Who‘s giving them the paycheck every day? HUTCHISON: They are working illegally, and it‘s an issue that we cannot allow to stand. Now, I don‘t like this bill, and I‘ve been voting... MATTHEWS: Do you trust the United States government, as a citizen of Texas and the United States—do you trust the United States government to enforce the law? HUTCHISON: I‘m as skeptical as you are, but I don‘t have the luxury of saying, Well, it‘s not going to happen, and therefore we‘re going to do nothing... MATTHEWS: OK. When I get a straight answer... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: ... about whether we have a national ID card, because I got to tell you, Giuliani says we shouldn‘t have one, Romney says—they say we just have them for aliens. That‘s totally un-American! Everybody has to have it or nobody has to have it. When you go get on an airplane, they don‘t ask if you‘re an alien or not. They say, Show me your driver‘s license. Of course, now, 11 states give illegal driver licenses out because they‘re pandering, too. HUTCHISON: Chris... MATTHEWS: So much pandering going on! HUTCHISON: You‘re right in the sense that everyone is going to have to have the same treatment. MATTHEWS: If that‘s your law, I‘m for it. If that‘s in the law... HUTCHISON: It is... (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: But “The Washington Post” reported today there‘s no national ID card in the bill, so somebody‘s getting it wrong. HUTCHISON: It will be verification system that will require you or anyone else... MATTHEWS: I‘m signing up right now. HUTCHISON: ... to show that you are legal... (CROSSTALK) HUTCHISON: ... before you‘re able to... MATTHEWS: Great. Because I can‘t get on an airplane without on. HUTCHISON: ... to work legally. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Senator Hutchison. I‘m going to check this out. By the way, we got—we‘ll come back in a few minutes and (INAUDIBLE) and show what the paper said today about no national ID card. But thank you. You‘re great. I love—I think you‘re a great politician. HUTCHISON: Thank you. MATTHEWS: And I wouldn‘t vote for the bill, if I were you. HUTCHISON: Thank you."

6/15/2007 12:02:34 PM

^ I don't see why you posted that. Nothing new or meaningful is contained there... TV commentators are possibly the worst people to listen to regarding policy.

6/15/2007 4:44:40 PM

^ Cause the senator said "we need to secure the border" but never stated how and never once refuted anything Matthews said.

[Edited on June 15, 2007 at 5:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2007 5:47:40 PM

weren't we supposed to "secure the border" in 1986, you know, that last time we had an amnesty bill get passed?

6/15/2007 8:53:16 PM

^ or last year or the year before that etc...

now they are saying the 4.4 billion for border enforcement will come from the $5000 fine towards
becoming a citizen or whatever, what a joke, like we don't have 4.4 billion to spare out of a budget of 3 trillion +. Oh well, I guess border security isn't that important, its not like its an issue of national security,... oh wait

If the republicans in power really cared about border security they could have done something about it for at least the past 10 years or so, I don't trust a bloody thing that is coming from a compromise involving Ted Kennedy ( remember NCLB is as much his baby as W's, that should remind us what comes of bipartisan deal making ) and the same politicians who have done basically zero to put a stop to illegal immigration for as long as I can remember.

Just enforce the laws that exist and use our tax money for what it is for; protect us from enemies foreign and domestic. If the republicans fold on this one they are going to get beat down in the next election and rightly so.

6/15/2007 11:09:27 PM

^ and the irony is that anyone who responds against republicans by voting democrat isn't going to do anything to change the illegal immigration stance of congress, so what the fuck?

6/15/2007 11:13:01 PM

They don't have to vote against Republicans, they have to vote for the correct republican (Ron Paul!).

6/15/2007 11:16:33 PM

Sadly that wont happen.

6/15/2007 11:22:46 PM

Ron Paul isn't the only one.

6/15/2007 11:27:31 PM

Who are the others? Anyone that might have a chance at getting nominated?

6/15/2007 11:40:04 PM

Educate yourself.

6/15/2007 11:41:00 PM

damn i just felt like chatting with someone in a forum other than chit chat

from the debate it sounded like romney gave the best answer...i never heard pauls position on it but i was probably busy doing something when he said it

6/15/2007 11:44:59 PM

BH, are you that fucking stupid? The post to which I responded said "republicans will get assraped in the next election..." To my response, you responded "voters need to vote for the right republican..." idiot.

6/15/2007 11:49:26 PM

^ agreed(to your earlier post), we need to kick out the offending republicans in the primary elections. Voting for the democrats only makes it worse. More likely people will just not vote at all, but what should get their attention is the steep decline in donations plus phone lines which are jammed with
voters.

Personally, I'll still vote for the republican in the general election
(assuming he is closer to my views than the democrat)
even if he has done stupid things, but not everybody is as forgiving
as I am.

[Edited on June 16, 2007 at 12:21 AM. Reason : .]

6/16/2007 12:21:04 AM

write to your senators and shoot this shit down....btw Burr voted YES to bringing this back to discussion. Dole voted NO. Remember that next election time.

6/26/2007 3:33:10 PM

Burr isn't going to change his mind. Doesn't he have like 4 more years in office.

6/26/2007 3:46:17 PM

I'm going to vote yes for cloture, but then vote against the immigration bill, that way i can make both sides happy

in washington, you CAN have it both ways

6/26/2007 3:48:29 PM

Limbaugh was hilarious today.

Like 30 seconds after discussing why the bill wasn't going to pass, "this just in, 64-35."

6/26/2007 7:11:49 PM

Quote :

"Burr isn't going to change his mind. Doesn't he have like 4 more years in office."

Yes but will that be long enough for republicans to forget his traiterous vote today?

What special interest group has him by the short hairs? To vote for something that over 70% of his voters are against..amazing example of the arrogance of politicians.

6/26/2007 7:14:36 PM

Quote :

"Yes but will that be long enough for republicans to forget his traiterous vote today?"

Probably. The Republican base are never going anywhere else.

Quote :

"What special interest group has him by the short hairs? To vote for something that over 70% of his voters are against..amazing example of the arrogance of politicians."

Does rationality have an interest group?

6/26/2007 7:56:05 PM

The base may stick with the GOP, but still reject Burr.

And any interest group that wants open borders and amnesty is hardly "rational"

6/26/2007 9:01:05 PM

<rational>Our best option is to arrest and deport 16 million people who on the whole are hard-working individuals</rational>

6/26/2007 9:03:24 PM

Didn't really read the thread...

I heard something on NPR recently...the person was basically saying that illegal immigrants really aren't using up many resources right now...and we won't see the real fight until they do really start demanding resources...

6/26/2007 9:07:03 PM

^ http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

$10,000,000,000 ... that's a lot of zeros and one shiny texas penny. I'm not sure how 9 zeros equates to how they "aren't using up many resources right now".

6/26/2007 10:29:42 PM

^It honestly ain't shit.

(Compared to what it will be and then the real fight will begin.)

In other words...you ain't seen nothin yet. B-B-Baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin yet.

[Edited on June 27, 2007 at 12:40 AM. Reason : ]

6/27/2007 12:34:16 AM

If what you guys are saying is correct then be prepared for something similar to below:

Quote :

"The first series of Europe invasions begun on the 5th century when tribes of germanic origin launched invasions to the Roman Empire lands. But this attack wasn't spontaneous but due to the pressure of the Huns that where moving from central Asia to Europe, taking the lands of the germanic tribes. Finally the Huns invaded the Roman Empire, but where defeated in the battle of Campos Catalaunicos with the aid of the Visigoths. Rome in the next years suffered the attack of many barbarian tribes, but it wasn't prepared like in the past to resist. In the 5th century Rome was in the middle of an economic, social and political crisis."

6/27/2007 12:47:45 AM

^NO. The US is not Rome. You can't make predictions like THAT. But don't worry, I predict your mildly attractive wife won't leave your ugly ass.

6/27/2007 1:00:11 AM

Quote :

"Our best option is to arrest and deport 16 million people who on the whole are hard-working individuals"

I don't care how hard they work. They're criminals.

The best option is to secure our southern border (just like Mexico secures its southern border), and hit illegal-hiring employers with stiff financial penalties and/or jail time. Faced with no income and no welfare, our criminal visitors will go home on their own.

6/27/2007 1:19:16 AM

Quote :

"I don't care how hard they work. They're criminals."

Quote :

"I don't care how cool this "Declaration" is. They're criminals. -George III"

Quote :

"I don't care how nasty the colored bathrooms are. They're criminals. -Gov. Wallace"

Quote :

"I don't care how competent and productive those potheads are. They're criminals. -Whatever the fuck ever, you get the point."

[Edited on June 27, 2007 at 2:08 AM. Reason : Within the law =/= right, just, rational, or acceptable]

6/27/2007 2:07:52 AM

Quote :

" law =/= right "

Sometimes ..yes the law isn't right.

But in this case it's absolutely right to secure your borders and control immigration.

6/27/2007 10:39:04 AM

Sure, it's our right to do so.

But our current laws suck.

6/27/2007 10:55:52 AM

Another untold situation is in the construction industry, where I happen to work in finance. These illegals come over and use stolen social security numbers to open credit with companies and run up huge sums of money. We had one guy who has an outstanding balance of around 250K with my company. Jose had 4 houses in and around DC including a multimillion dollar mansion. He got busted for tax fraud and owed about 3 million in back taxes. This fucker packed up his family and all the cash he received while working on new construction and snuck back across the border not only leaving my company high and dry but the entire tax paying nation as well. In my industry I would say we have probably about a 5-10% credit fraud for latin american customers and this costs us tens of millions of dollars a year. Thats just one company too. Write your senators. Richard Burr should never get another vote from a North Carolina legal resident. This amnesty is absolutely ridiculous.

6/27/2007 11:05:38 AM

^
Now get ready jccraft1, the other side will point out that your case is just one example of the one or two bad apples that are sneaking across the border. All the other illegals are out there working hard and paying their taxes. (with fradulent SS numbers of course).

The fact that just their mere criminal presence here shows their contempt for our laws. But that counts for nothing to the amnesty crowd.

6/27/2007 11:33:13 AM

but our ancestors had a chance! but they are hard workers! they just want a better life for their families! emotions > rationale!

6/27/2007 11:43:37 AM

Well you can take that information for what its worth. Lots of people "understand" that illegals work in the construction industry but they don't know details of it. I am in a unique position to see where a large amount of illegals are actually employeed. I get to see how they run businesses illegally. I get to see that 1 out of 10 defrauds the US government and my company. So with that being said then there are 2 federal offenses for every 1 out of 10 illegals employeed in my market. 1 for crossing the border, 2 for defrauding the government. It's just so painfully obvious that leaders in our country need the cheap labor to run our economy. I understand that. What I don't understand is why we have to just say "ohhh well, we can't fix this problem any other way so we will just give them a visa and let them get on the path for citizenship".

6/27/2007 11:43:55 AM

i think its a combination of the cheap labor and wanting to legalize them so they can vote for them and stay in office

6/27/2007 11:45:26 AM

even if the margin is slimmer than previous elections the latino vote still swings to liberals. anyways, how many of these people do you think would actually vote,

but the real questions is....does anyone think those are good reasons to legalize 20 million people

6/27/2007 11:56:41 AM

i dont but some do because their only thought is "awww, they just want a better life, how sweet"

6/27/2007 11:58:07 AM

I suppose that's still better than the crowd that says "it's ok to be racist, they're illegal"

There seem to be a lot of people in that category.

6/27/2007 12:09:18 PM