^I was initially pretty pissed that they killed that, because I've used a top toolbar for-ever (and love it in Vista).

But then I realized what I used the top toolbar FOR, and it's exactly what the new taskbar does. So I just moved all my stuff to the taskbar and got back the 150pixels I'd given up for years

1/14/2009 2:35:37 AM

I need to look at the new taskbar more I guess, but I don't think I can replicate what I was doing before with it.

And I had mine auto-hidden, so I wasn't losing any desktop space.

I just don't like that Microsoft has removed functionality just because they decided that the new system is better. How about adding new functionality while leaving the old stuff in place and letting people decide what they like better?

1/14/2009 2:59:04 AM

my taskbar will autohide?

1/14/2009 3:13:11 AM

^yeah, you can still autohide it AFAIK. After a couple of months with it, it doesn't seem like anything good has been removed in Win7, just a lot of separate good/ok features have been integrated together into better, singular experiences (like the new taskbar)

1/14/2009 6:38:54 AM

yeah, missed a key piece of information on the other page

1/14/2009 7:26:46 AM

Quote :

"Because there isn't any real need to do so. The reality is, 64bit is a technology push, not a business or consumer pull. "

Yeah, but when I make the effort to do a reformat to put a 64-bit OS on my machine it will be because of a pull. I'll have the need to have more than 3GB of memory because the OS alone will eat up at least 1GB, then I'll have games and VMs to consider. But yeah, those things wouldn't be considered normal use by the average Windows user.

1/14/2009 7:45:29 AM

Does Win7 Not support toolbar programs (yz dock or rocket dock)

1/14/2009 8:37:33 AM

installing on my laptop right now...will play with it tonight

1/14/2009 8:40:19 AM

how long can you run Windows 7 beta? i'd like to put this on an older PC and give it to a member of the family.

1/14/2009 9:05:57 AM

^ till august 1st, i believe

that install was faster than vista...now i just want to play while at work

1/14/2009 9:13:48 AM

Just played with it last night. So far it does a good job of perceiving that it's faster, but 3 minutes after boot up, it's still clicking away in the background pre-caching and loading. Interesting...

1/14/2009 10:14:37 AM

Ok, got a question. Install on my home PC was great. But I am having issues with my work PC. First off, I started with XP. I upgraded to Vista, found it to be horrendous, and tossed in another drive and installed a fresh copy of XP. So I had Vista on C and XP on G.

Now I wiped out my Vista and C drive to setup Win7 on that drive and keep my XP on G to dual boot. After the install, I now don't have the dual boot option. What do I do to fix this problem? I really need to find some of my settings on my XP install to get my install of 7 finalized. Thanks.

1/14/2009 10:51:40 AM

windows 7 had better (or, at least, the most up-to-date) for everything on/in my laptop except the touch buttons, the audio, the modem, the touchpad, the chipset (i think), and the nvidia video card (8400m gs)

out of those, only the modem, touch buttons, and chipset (again, i think) weren't found immediately ...the modem and touch buttons i installed via driver updates

i still have, though, three items under "other devices" and they're all called "base system device"...any idea what this is? i thought it might be the intel pm965/ich8m chipset, but when i try to update via the installer, it says the OS isn't supported, and win7 doesn't see the drivers when i point it to them

*shrug*

1/14/2009 10:54:30 AM

you still use a modem?

1/14/2009 11:00:03 AM

i do not still use a modem...but it's in the laptop, and i wasn't sure which device it was until i had it search my drivers folder and it found the right one

1/14/2009 11:05:06 AM

This shit owns. The hover previews and pin lists are pretty cool. Nvidia distributing their official driver through Windows Update instead of their site is fucking awesome. Divx and all those other codec makers are all now obsolete which is cool. I'm dual booting it with vista, but i dont think im gonna go back.

7 Supremacy.

1/14/2009 1:58:20 PM

^^^^Maybe download drivers directly from your laptop manufacturer?

1/14/2009 2:13:31 PM

^ that's what i originally did...then, since HP hadn't released a chipset driver/utility for that chipset since late '07, i downloaded the most recent one directly from intel...no luck in either (i don't know that that's it, anyway...i just can't figure out what it might be

i did a bios update, and still nothing

oh well

1/14/2009 3:08:35 PM

go into device manager, open the unknown device, click details tab, property=hardware ids, get the number after dev_ and do a device search here.

That will atleast tell you what it is so you can make sure you're looking for the right drivers.

1/14/2009 3:29:47 PM

have they added the "arrange by penis" yet to the desktop icons task bar?

1/14/2009 4:38:02 PM

im worried that this might mess up the warranty on my computer, need to look into it

1/14/2009 4:50:31 PM

if you are worried about that, then this thread isn't for you. In fact, this section isn't for you.

1/14/2009 4:53:11 PM

I have this sneaking suspicion that Windows 7 is just Vista with a UI tweak. Since it's a beta, they have a lot of stuff either stripped out or turned off making it appear to be faster than it will be once it's released retail. This could all be the Mohave Experiment on a grand scale.

1/14/2009 4:54:01 PM

I still have yet to get a BSOD in Vista non-game related. Or any issues at all. I don't see what everyone is complaining about.

1/14/2009 4:56:21 PM

Quote :

"if you are worried about that, then this thread isn't for you. In fact, this section isn't for you."

uh, ive got full protection. if i ever drop this thing or spill a beer on it i would hate for my claim to get denied because i loaded a beta release os. i doubt its a problem, but i need to read through my shit first.

1/14/2009 4:59:58 PM

I didn't think warranties could be voided with software, but who knows.

1/14/2009 5:00:50 PM

Quote :

"I have this sneaking suspicion that Windows 7 is just Vista with a UI tweak"

thats exactly what it is. There are a few system changes here and there, but the core is pretty much vista. Legitimate complaints in vista were mostly UI related anyways.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:30 PM. Reason : d]

1/14/2009 5:30:02 PM

reading comprehension much? jesus

1/14/2009 5:31:29 PM

Quote :

"I have this sneaking suspicion that Windows 7 is just Vista with a UI tweak. Since it's a beta, they have a lot of stuff either stripped out or turned off making it appear to be faster than it will be once it's released retail. This could all be the Mohave Experiment on a grand scale."

It's not. See this post on page4

Lets look at the super obvious here guys. There are THOUSANDS of developers on Windows. You honestly think that any company would keep that many people employed and working for several years just to release a "UI tweak"? How about a little, tiny bit of common sense.

Quote :

"Legitimate complaints in vista were mostly UI related anyways."

Actually they were mostly OEM related. UI complaints in vista were few and far between because they didn't actually do much to the UI, functionally speaking.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:37 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 5:36:24 PM

anyone else annoyed by the unnecessary amount of space taken up by the quick launch and system tray icons? do they need that much padding so that people with imprecise mouse control can hit them more easily?

also, i miss classic start menu...and quick launch (i haven't looked into whether these are options, even, but i didn't see anything intuitive about changing them

1/14/2009 5:40:59 PM

^Have you even used it yet? Large icons are by default, you can change it in the properties. The new taskbar IS a quick launch. You can still add custom toolbars (which I already explained) the same way you always have been able to.



And I don't know what the hell you are talking about with the system tray. The new system tray is super compact and keeps your tray from becoming huge and unwieldy as happened in every previous version of windows.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 5:49:03 PM

Didn't want to start a new thread (might have to if I don't get a suitable answer).

Anyone know if there are any compact usb drives ~4gb that I could use for readyboost with my netbook? I saw the ocz roadster, and that looks about right. I'd like it keep it there almost permanently.

1/14/2009 9:03:42 PM

The question is why? Readyboost is basically a worthless marketing gimmick

1/14/2009 9:17:52 PM

Quote :

"There are a few system changes here and there, but the core is pretty much vista. Legitimate complaints in vista were mostly UI related anyways."

And here I thought it was mostly system changes with a few UI tweaks.

1/15/2009 7:47:12 AM

^^^^ yes, smartass, i HAVE used it (i'm posting from win7 right now, in fact)...and regardless of what your OPINION is, i think the new superbar sucks donkey balls (my opinion, and one that seems to be pretty common in the forums)...for example, if i have firefox open and i want a second window (not another tab), i have to click TWICE to get it, instead of the one click i would use previously (i have 4-5 key programs that i use on a regular basis and i want those to ALWAYS be available as links, even if it's already open, without extra clicks to find the option)

i concede that it's a preferential thing...but no matter what you say, you're not going to convince me that adding extra clicks to accomplish what i was able to do in just one, before, is going to be faster or more intuitive

in related news, you can re-enable the quick launch (and might always be able to, if i they don't take it out of the production version): http://www.blogsdna.com/2003/how-to-enable-disable-quick-launch-toolbar-in-windows-7.htm

this ties in directly to what i'm saying about the size of the icons...even when you make them smaller (which i already know how to do, despite your sarcasm), they still take up more space than the quick launch icons did:



in the picture above, i'm not comparing the SIZE of the icons (because, as you noted, you can change that and the example shows the default large icons), but the spacing between them...why do they need to have padding around them? is it for people with poor dexterity who have a hard time clicking icons? are the new icons claustrophobic? it's annoying...i want my quick launch (or superbar or whatever) icons to be in the same place, not bounce around...and if i'm going to be forced to have all them show up, i want them to be as compact as possible

so, not only do they require additional clicks to perform simple one-click tasks, they take up more space to do it...it looks like crap and it's a waste of time

as for the system tray, i'm going to disrespectfully disagree...when i dual-boot between XP and win7, 4 system tray icons and the clock take up just barely less than TWICE as much space in win7 as they do in XP...again with the ridiculous padding around the icons...i understand that you don't know what the hell i'm talking about, but you sometimes don't know what the hell YOU'RE talking about, either, and this is one of those times



i was originally miffed that there was no "show desktop" button, but then i realized that bar to the far right IS the show desktop button (with the aero peek feature)...it takes a little getting used to, but i'm okay with that (aero peek is kind of cool, but i really don't see the point of it)

another gripe - why can't i keep my gadgets (what used to be the sidebar, since that's technically gone) on top of everything? like how it is in vista - where the sidebar actually causes windows to be resized? i can see a lot of people never wanting to do that, but as it was stated in a thread on another forum, it's like wanting to see the gauges in your car all the time - some people really just like it, and, depending on the gadget, there can be a number of valid reasons...it's not like it would be hard for them to include the option, even if only some people use it

gripe #eleventy billion: you STILL can't easily relocate the "my documents" stuff (or maybe you can, but i'm not used to this library scheme, yet, so i might just not have figured it out)...i can't believe that more people don't have their my documents located on a separate partition (laptop) or a whole separate drive (desktop)...such a pain in the ass to do it in vista/win7

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM. Reason : arrows]

1/15/2009 7:53:30 AM

Quote :

"gripe #eleventy billion: you STILL can't easily relocate the "my documents" stuff (or maybe you can, but i'm not used to this library scheme, yet, so i might just not have figured it out)...i can't believe that more people don't have their my documents located on a separate partition (laptop) or a whole separate drive (desktop)...such a pain in the ass to do it in vista/win7"

I was able to do that very easily in Vista, have all that pointing to my NAS. I'm sure you can do it in Win7. I think I had to go relocate each library/folder individually, but other than that it was easy.

1/15/2009 7:56:19 AM

^ that's not actually doing what i want, though...remember how there's a "my documents" folder on the desktop in XP? and when you right-click, you can change the location? and from then on, it's essentially a link to your other partition/drive? well, AFAIK (and the last time i looked into it was around august), you can't change THAT in vista...so you have put a link on your desktop to the new partition/drive, instead of to your "users" folder...which means that it's not doing what i want (it messes up the default download areas for me)

i realize your method will work well for most people...but i, personally, don't want to adhere to vista's required folder structure, because i think i might know better my wants/needs than they do...removing the ability for me to easily customize the operating system is annoying

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2009 8:08:23 AM

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2006/12/08/change-the-location-of-the-documents-folder-in-vista/

?

http://joshmouch.wordpress.com/2007/04/07/change-user-profile-folder-location-in-vista/

?

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM. Reason : second link]

1/15/2009 8:10:46 AM

^With regard to that, it really doesn't make sense to me either. It could even be a tool hidden away in Administrative Tools so that Joe the Plumber doesn't have to get confused about what it does or anything.

I'm so used to keeping /home in a different location with Linux, in fact on install I even set it up that way when initializing the disks, and I agree about Windows needing the same ability, it's just not that hard of something to accomplish and it'd please the hell out of people who do a lot of reinstalling.

edit: In fact, that gives me an idea, push C:\Users to another folder than do a Hard Sym Link in Vista/Win7 from C:\Users to that location, now any program can instantly find your files despite being hard-coded.

[Edited on January 15, 2009 at 8:19 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2009 8:15:52 AM

^^ exactly my point...the first one only does what you JUST said (moves the folders within the user's profile, but not the profile itself)...the second link talks about that and the ONLY other way, which is through an unattended setup (and hell if i wanted to reinstall vista just for that reason)

in the meantime, since the user's profile is still located on the OS partition/drive, certain things default there (saved games, since it uses something like the %PROFILE% function to determine where to save the games - i know that %PROFILE% isn't exactly it, but i think you know what i mean)

1/15/2009 8:19:25 AM

oh ok. I see what you mean now.

1/15/2009 8:20:44 AM

Quote :

"as for the system tray, i'm going to disrespectfully disagree...when i dual-boot between XP and win7, 4 system tray icons and the clock take up just barely less than TWICE as much space in win7 as they do in XP...again with the ridiculous padding around the icons...i understand that you don't know what the hell i'm talking about, but you sometimes don't know what the hell YOU'RE talking about, either, and this is one of those times"

Comparing XP to 7 via your screenshot, the System Tray is almost exactly the same size in XP (with 4 icons) vs 7 (with 3 icons). The bigger issue (as far as screen real estate goes) is the spacer to the right of the system tray.

1/15/2009 8:24:03 AM

Quote :

"I still have yet to get a BSOD in Vista non-game related"

I have actually had one BSOD, but it was our shitty ass work I3 VOIP Client that I tried to install on my work PC. I heard that it doesn't even really work on Vista, even in compatibility mode, and I just tried to straight up run the program.

1/15/2009 8:37:55 AM

^^ not on my machine...maybe this is wrong on my part, but i'm using the same resolution in both, and the system tray in win7 (with 4 icons and the clock, excluding the desktop spacer) is almost (but not quite) twice as wide as the system tray in XP (with 4 icons and the clock)

realize, though, that i'm using the classic look in XP, since i don't need fluff and pretty to make me feel happy while computing...that might be the difference

when i apply the "system" theme (downloaded) to XP, that space becomes even smaller (i'm a fan of minimalist OS themes, if it's not obvious)

1/15/2009 8:58:11 AM

I tried going with the lifehacker method of dual booting Windows 7 with my existing XP x64. The install keeps hanging at "Setup is starting....." I don't ever get a chance to pick a partition or even load SATA drivers (if it's even needed).

It was stuck at that screen and the loading circle had stopped moving when I left it at home today. When I get back in 11 hours, we'll see if it's moved at all but I suspect it's locked for good.

1/15/2009 9:01:08 AM

^ i did the same thing, though i didn't realize they had documented it on lifehacker (it's just the way i chose to do it)

i didn't have any problems, but i'm using 32-bit XP pro and 64-bit windows 7 (i removed vista completely)

1/15/2009 9:03:48 AM

I really like Vista, but it does not play nice with my ATI Radeon HD3470. For some reason, the driver crashes periodically when I watch videos in WMP (and only in WMP, Media Center is fine, and I've never had any issues w/games either). It's the infamous "atikdmag has stopped responding..." error where it switches my desktop back to (what looks like) 4-bit color mode. Strangely enough, I can launch Media Center and immediately close out of it and the display goes back to normal.

Other than that, I do really like Vista. Hopefully this issue is resolved in Windows 7.

1/15/2009 9:08:32 AM

Dual booting XP Home and Win7. Installed from within windows on a separate partition from a flash drive. No hitches.

1/15/2009 9:22:17 AM

Lifehacker just linked me to a cool distribution of linux pared down just for partitioning drives. Maybe I messed something up there, but my partitions look good to me. I can see the 2nd partition when I'm logged into XP.

1/15/2009 9:29:24 AM

anyone else having trouble installing logmein?

1/15/2009 9:34:06 AM