I can't count the number of completely unacceptable errors piled on top of each other there that would have led to that situation.

disgraceful

12/13/2009 9:37:34 AM

Quote :

"This was more than a pair of pilots zoning out under the glow of their computers. It was something less overt: a combination of small errors and oversights, not all of them of the crew's doing, creating a loss of what a pilot calls "situational awareness.""

Crew coordination is beaten into my head daily, I imagine it is the same for Duke and other DoD pilots, but I can see how routine stuff like a freq change would be missed.

Quote :

"As a general rule, anything a politician says or proposes about commercial air travel should be looked on with heavy skepticism."

Quote :

"For a would-be pilot, obtaining an ATP will entail a financial investment approaching or exceeding six figures. Theoretically, at least, this should encourage the regionals to begin offering better wages and benefits if they want to attract and retain experienced crews."

Regionals don't set wages arbitrarily, they pay what the market will sustain. I suspect you'd see a reduction, over time, in regional air travel as a result of this.

12/13/2009 10:30:00 AM

yeah, missing a freq change is one of those things that happens every once in a while (although the controllers will call you on the old freq or on guard most of the time until you roger up).

Regardless, didn't they fly like 150 nm off course? That's like, 15-20 minutes. I'm sure they have moving map and all in their nice, commercial avionics suite, too. I really don't see how 2 pilots with such a gucci avionics suite, under IFR control, along with at least one center controller, on such a simple flight, could possibly fuck the dog that much.

[Edited on December 13, 2009 at 9:19 PM. Reason : ]

12/13/2009 9:19:04 PM

i've given up on reading anything in this thread. shit's written in a different language

12/13/2009 9:22:07 PM

yeah, something like 100nm off course...


I cannot imagine not actively pursuing, establishing, and maintaining communication with ATC for that long.

12/13/2009 9:28:37 PM

that's what i'm saying...even if both pilots manage to miss a freq switch, and even if somehow they aren't watching the picture in front of them that a 3rd grader could navigate off of, they would THEN both have to not think, "Hey, we've flown a pretty long ways without hearing anything from ATC." There are a whole number of things that should've made the bells go off in their heads.

Day one stuff, simultaneously from two airline pilots.

12/13/2009 10:02:09 PM

Quote :

"although the controllers will call you on the old freq or on guard most of the time"

If he transposed the frequencies then the old frequency wouldn't work, but yeah I hear calls on guard all the time when we're out in the more remote portions of the training area and at the edges of UHF's capabilities.

Quote :

"There are a whole number of things that should've made the bells go off in their heads."

Yup.

12/13/2009 11:28:25 PM

Question: How much should I expect to pay for my flight physical for private pilot?

Also, I currently take an antidepressant. What's the likelihood of something like this blacklisting me?

12/13/2009 11:37:59 PM

^^ if he heard a freq change but misheard or mistyped and ended up on the wrong freq, then he's an even bigger moron for not switching back and clarifying when nobody answered on the freq he switched to.

^$75-100 rings a bell from when I was looking into it a while back. I don't remember for sure, though. In the end, I just got a Navy flight doc to sign me off for free, as I'd obviously had a FAR more extensive flight physical for the military.

Whatever it is, be it $50 or $150 or whatever, it's a drop in the bucket when it comes to the costs of flying. It's just a matter of not pissing away money needlessly.


[Edited on December 13, 2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on December 13, 2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason : ]

12/13/2009 11:38:59 PM

What I want for Xmas:

Pride Aircraft: Sukhoi SU-27 Flankers for Sale
http://www.prideaircraft.com



only 60 mil. for one, 90 mil for both.

12/14/2009 12:01:18 AM

^ SU-27 for $5 million
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1160633

Of course, for that much I'd just buy 3 mustangs and spend my weekends dogfighting with friends.

12/14/2009 12:09:54 AM

I've always said that there aren't really that many extraordinarily extravagant things that I would buy if I one the $100,000,000 Powerball Lottery...but that is one of them, for sure.

I'd have a P-51 and probably a Corsair, too...but that FLANKER would kick way more ass than anything else that you could buy. It's a beast.

12/14/2009 12:22:35 AM

The upkeep would ruin you. But it would be fun while it lasted.

Edit - The cockpit looks like something from the 1970s...

[Edited on December 14, 2009 at 8:42 AM. Reason : *]

12/14/2009 8:41:26 AM

Quote :

"then he's an even bigger moron for not switching back and clarifying when nobody answered on the freq he switched to."

More than once I've been told to "contact so and so on ###" and received nothing, especially at the altitudes we fly, but yeah, I always reconfirm I have the right one set. And he also wasn't 200' AGL.

Quote :

"but that FLANKER would kick way more ass than anything else that you could buy."

See, jets just don't do it for me. Yeah, it'd be cool as shit, but it would be on the list behind the P-51, not in front of it. Plus there is a lot of shit I can do in Class G airspace with a P-51 that I just could do with a Su-27 (and the MiG-29 is a better looking aircraft anyway, that anal probe the Flanker has sticking out of it's ass bothers me)

12/14/2009 10:51:57 AM

^^ nah, I'm talking about if I won the Powerball for hundreds of millions, and took home a hundred million or more after taxes. You could afford the upkeep and operating costs with that kind of money...especially because I wouldn't buy islands or giant mega-mansions or whatever.

and that cockpit is behind Western standards (both aesthetically and functionally), but it's not that bad. Only the very latest military jets have slick looking avionics packages. If you're comparing it to a Gulfstream 5, it looks prehistoric. If you're comparing it to its peer aircraft, it's not that far off the mark. and it was developed in the 1970s anyway...so yeah, it looks like it's out of the '70s.



^ that's what I'm saying...if he heard the call and knew he was supposed to switch to SOMETHING, but got nothing on the freq he switched to, that makes him 100x dumber than if he just droned mindlessly for 150 nm with zero SA (which is fantastically stupid, itself).

break, break:

and you say that, but you've never flown a jet. A P-51 (or Corsair, or whatever) would be awesome, and I'd want one big time, but something like a Flanker--while maybe not competing for style points and all, would be so freakishly capable in terms of pure performance. They are just not comparable in any way.

12/14/2009 11:09:45 AM

Technically I operate a jet turbine daily But yeah, I see what you mean. I'm just saying for what I'd enjoy a P-51 would come first, followed probably by a MD-500 or a BO 105, then a jet of some fashion.


But this is the same reason that every vehicle I've ever owned is a truck and the first car I buy is likely to be a diesel VW.

12/14/2009 11:17:25 AM

I would like a MiG, but the flanker is here and now.

Also, oops on the price mistake. I knew it couldn't be that expensive.

12/14/2009 7:26:31 PM

I've seen MiG-29s for sale in the Ukraine on Globalplanesearch.com for $20 million, but I'm sure importing one is next to impossible.

I've also heard of US citizens owning MiG-21s and being paid by the AF to play adversary aircraft in their war games. That would be a sweet gig if you don't mind the constant ownage.

12/14/2009 8:12:26 PM

Quote :

"Question: How much should I expect to pay for my flight physical for private pilot? Also, I currently take an antidepressant. What's the likelihood of something like this blacklisting me?"

$100 is pretty much the going rate. Don't pay too much more than that.

Quote :

"I've seen MiG-29s for sale in the Ukraine on Globalplanesearch.com for $20 million, but I'm sure importing one is next to impossible. I've also heard of US citizens owning MiG-21s and being paid by the AF to play adversary aircraft in their war games. That would be a sweet gig if you don't mind the constant ownage."

^I've seen the same thing out of Ukraine somewhere online. I find it funny that wiki lists the cost at $11 Million USD. That's dirt cheap for such an amazing aircraft. I'm sure you could import it being that they're probably stripped down to sheet metal.

When I was instructing we had a lot of ex-mil guys come get their ATP rating with us. One was an F/A-18 guy who went to go work at ATAC - a company that plays war games with the Navy and Air Force. At the time I think he said he was going to fly a Saab Draken. They had some interesting aircraft to say the least.



On a tangent, I've been told by a Ukrainian not to refer to the country as "the Ukraine". We don't call it "the Russia". An interesting point. It's not plural like the Netherlands, nor is it a region like the Arctic.

12/15/2009 7:57:00 AM

Well, after reading as much documentation as I can find...it's hell to pass a physical if you are on any antidepressant. Requires FAA decision and approval. And evidently it takes a LOT to work through that if at all.

That just makes me shake my head...FAA will approve known heart conditions if medicated properly, but they won't touch this with a 10 ft pole? GAY.

12/15/2009 9:13:14 AM

^ But it's not automatic disqualification, or is it? Got any links to more info?

12/15/2009 1:44:45 PM

Not automatic disqualification, but damn hard qualification.

http://flightphysical.com/Exam-Guide/Psych/Psychiatric-47.htm

Tell me what you think. I've read a lot of discussions, and there seems to be a lot of pilots that end up being disqualified on these grounds.

[Edited on December 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM. Reason : shit]

12/15/2009 1:47:31 PM

LaserSoup, taking an antidepressent, and even being diagnosed with something like ADD are big no no's in the pilot medical world.

12/15/2009 1:53:47 PM

Which means I'm stuck getting a Sport Pilot license and flying a goddamn kitfox.

12/15/2009 1:54:32 PM

What I have learned from older pilots, is that it is generally possible to get a special issuance to fly with just about any condition with a Class 3. The difference is that you disclose a condition, the FAA makes you pay a lot of money to take a bunch of tests which will not improve your condition at all and are not covered by insurance, and then you will get your medical. However, it will be a one year medical in many circumstances, and you have to go through all that shit again in a year. Its an awful system, and makes a large majority of pilots liars.

[Edited on December 15, 2009 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

12/15/2009 2:08:23 PM

I'm surprised but then again not really. My dad smoked and was way overweight and he kept his license until he had a stroke. We never really discussed any of it so it may have been that he lied to keep things going as long as he did. Although the last 7 or 8 years that he flew it was all smaller aircraft.

12/15/2009 2:16:15 PM

Quote :

"I've also heard of US citizens owning MiG-21s and being paid by the AF to play adversary aircraft in their war games. That would be a sweet gig if you don't mind the constant ownage."

Yeah, I participated in an exercise a couple of months ago that had one civilian guy in a Hind, and another in some sort of prop-driven (I think...I never saw it) observation aircraft.

I can't say that we don't pay civilians to fly MiG-21s in exercises, but I've never presonally seen it, and it wouldn't really make sense to do so, at least as far as I can figure. That's why we have F-5 squadrons (if we want to train against a last-generation threat. We might also still have some Kfirs...I've seen a few of them flying around and parked at TOPGUN, but I don't know how much we still use them). We can also have the Viper/Hornet adversaries dial it back to MiG-21 level if need be (this is not unusual).

On top of all that, if you were just a random zillionaire with a FISHBED, you might be able to fly it fine, but knowing how to tactically employ it would be a whole different matter. There is no way you'd be any value added to an exercise unless you were a former military aviator.


______________

Dan, this is the Sonex. I don't know if you could fit in one.

Same could be said for the RANS S-10:



Too bad RVs aren't LSA.

12/15/2009 2:30:07 PM

b-787 dreamliners first test flight was today

12/15/2009 4:47:05 PM

Quote :

"On top of all that, if you were just a random zillionaire with a FISHBED, you might be able to fly it fine, but knowing how to tactically employ it would be a whole different matter."

Yeah, I've thought about that. Maybe you're simulating one of the North Koreans who gets ~20 hours per year.

12/15/2009 6:47:10 PM

Read this gem today:

Quote :

"Though I fly through the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil, for I am 80,000 feet and climbing - sign over SR-71 operations at Kadena"

12/16/2009 9:05:18 PM

Good photographic essay on the RAF in World War Two from Life magazine here: http://ow.ly/QQAt

I especially liked the image of RAF pilots practicing formation on bicycles:

12/30/2009 12:46:54 PM

Wrecking ball looms for historic Boeing Plant 2

Quote :

"Boeing is set to demolish its historic Plant 2 facility near Boeing Field, famous for being so vital to the World War II manufacturing effort that to foil possible enemy bombing raids the roof was camouflaged with life-size fake trees, houses and streets. Boeing spokesman Chris Villiers said a demolition schedule has not been finalized. But the company has told the Museum of Flight it must remove several old airplanes stored inside the plant within the next four months. After demolition, Boeing plans to clean up the heavily polluted factory site, which backs onto the Duwamish Waterway. "We'll be cleaning up and restoring habitat along the waterway," said Villiers. "We don't have final plans.""

1/14/2010 3:44:24 PM

HUGE pictures of the camouflaged factory:
http://www.taphilo.com/history/WWII/USAAF/Boeing/H302-6.jpg
http://www.taphilo.com/history/WWII/USAAF/Boeing/H302-5.jpg
http://www.taphilo.com/history/WWII/USAAF/Boeing/HD-56.jpg

1/14/2010 4:00:07 PM

those are really awesome

1/14/2010 4:06:54 PM

Isnt there a faux ammunition factory outside of Blacksburg VA? its a miniature town meant to look like a weapons depo from the air?

1/14/2010 4:56:19 PM

^ The Elko tract?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elko_Tract

1/14/2010 5:58:52 PM

Looking up the Elko Tract had me end up on a cool little website about abandoned and unused airports around the country. They've got a pretty cool bit about the old Raleigh municipal airport south of town. I actually went out looking for it a couple of years ago, but whatever remained of it was developed recently.

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/NC/Airfields_NC_Raleigh.htm#raleigh

I also caught this bit:

Quote :

"This former general aviation airport closed in 2000 when the larger Sanford Lee County Regional airport was opened. The primary reason for the replacement of this airfield was the inability to obtain a precision instrument approach, due to the proximity of railroad tracks to the runway."

Why would RR tracks interfere with an instrument approach?

1/16/2010 6:48:50 PM

There are a bunch of criteria that must be met in order to be authorized as an instrument runway. In addition to runway requirements, (i.e lights, surface, width, distance, etc.), there are obstruction limits for the approach segments, especially the final approach course. My guess is if there are tracks too close to the runway, you can bet that they are unable to authorize an approach to that runway.

EDIT:

After a little bit of research, because I know only a few details of TERPS (the specs that govern terminal procedures), it appears there's something called a GQS (Glidepath Qualification Surface) which constitutes the area between the decision altitude and the runway threshold. In a precision approach this is generally the last 200 feet to the ground at a descent angle close to 3 deg. And straight from FAA Notice 8260.58: "When obstructions exceed the height of the GQS, an approach procedure with positive vertical guidance (ILS, MLS, TLS, GLS, VNAV, etc.) is not authorized." I'm sure there are other guidance rules for this segment on non-precision approaches (MDA to TCH).

With all this said, the RR would have to run pretty close to the runway in order to violate the glidepath, but it's possible. KEZF in Fredericksburg, VA comes to mind for me; runway 06 is pretty close to the railroad and I know there are no instrument approaches to that side of the strip, but there are to runway 24.

[Edited on January 17, 2010 at 7:16 AM. Reason : edit]

1/17/2010 6:50:23 AM

That's a pretty interesting read about that airfield. If you check Google, it looks like it was just E of RGA golf course, NW of the intersection of Tryon and 70. No signs of an airport anymore, looks like they're building a neighborhood a the time of the satellite photo, but you can see the railroad they were talking about.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=35.73+N+78.66+W&sll=35.728416,-78.659105&sspn=0.007926,0.01929&ie=UTF8&ll=35.73028,-78.659856&spn=0.007926,0.01929&t=h&z=16

[Edited on January 17, 2010 at 7:39 AM. Reason : ]

1/17/2010 7:31:27 AM

I thought about that possibility, but the tracks would have to be really damn close to interfere with the glideslope. Of course, I didn't even consider the small size of older runways and the resulting proximity of old airports to possible obstructions that no one even thought about during original construction.

1/17/2010 4:28:58 PM

Witnessed some Prowlers making some VERY low level flights over Rolesville last week. Seemed strange but was cool to see them come hauling ass by.

1/18/2010 3:45:27 AM

Just for shits and giggles, here's a picture of a Soviet copy of the B-29 fitted with turboprops and being used by the chinese as an AWACS platform in the late 60s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-4#People.27s_Republic_of_China

1/26/2010 3:13:47 PM

Duke do you know anything about the T-34 in LA??

1/27/2010 1:05:09 AM

^^ A buddy of mine was telling me that Stalin was such a stickler for detail, that when the Soviets attempted to copy downed US aircraft, he insisted that his engineers included the patches US ground crews had put on battle damage. So you had entire fleets of Soviet aircraft with patches for non-existent bullet holes in exactly the same spot.

1/27/2010 1:59:28 AM

Maybe some of you have some theories about this recent crash?

Ethiopian Airlines Pilot Flew the Wrong Way
Did 'very fast and strange turn' before crash into Mediterranean
January 26. 2010

Quote :

"The pilot of an Ethiopian Airlines plane that crashed off the coast of Lebanon flew in the opposite direction from that requested by the Beirut control tower, the AP reports. The flight controller 'asked him to correct his path, but he did a very fast and strange turn before disappearing completely from the radar,' the Lebanese transportation minister said. At this stage it is not clear why the pilot took a different route. No survivors have been found from the crash, which occurred five minutes after takeoff from the Beirut airport. The flight recorders have yet to be located."

http://www.newser.com/story/79216/ethiopian-airlines-pilot-flew-the-wrong-way.html

The maneuver in question seems most irregular.

1/27/2010 6:43:57 AM

^^ The whole Tu-4 fiasco is a brilliant example of things that were wrong with Stalin's USSR.

They told him from the beginning that reverse engineering the B-29 would cost three times as much as developing a whole new comparable bomber from the ground up, but he was infatuated with superfortress and insisted on having his own.

Also noteworthy is that the Soviets used thicker sheet metal because all of their tooling was metric so no one could produce 1/16" sheets. In the end their B-29 weighed several tons more and underperformed the original as a result.

1/27/2010 2:04:15 PM

Quote :

"Duke do you know anything about the T-34 in LA??"

i've hardly heard anything

and you know as well as anyone that i couldn't divulge anything in this thread if i did have any info

1/27/2010 7:22:08 PM

Quote :

"That's cool....my dad is back at Cherry Point doing his engineering stuff again. I think he is doing stuff with H-22s now, but I don't really know. "

I think you mean V-22. I work out of Cherry Point with the Prop FST, supporting E-2, C-2, P-3, and C-130

keep 'em spinning

1/28/2010 7:33:35 AM

Speaking of Naval Aviation, here is a real neat color video of carriers in WWII

1/28/2010 2:12:52 PM

Any thoughts on the new Sukhoi T-50?

I'm already tempted to call it the F-22ski.

1/29/2010 8:19:28 PM