let me rephrase that since you didn't understand it

which one do you think is in the average person's mind more often on a day to day basis:

1. a war going on thousands of miles away
2. their jobs, health care, families, etc that they see all the time

9/16/2009 10:15:07 PM

Why does it matter? My point is, don't compare this shit to anti-war protests.

9/16/2009 10:15:55 PM

Why not? There are genuine people at each one, and nutcases at each one. They're both based on something that the attendees apparently feel strong about.

9/16/2009 10:20:08 PM

i think it needs to be reiterated that the picture on the last page was not even from the Tea Party

9/16/2009 10:35:34 PM

Quote :

"which one do you think is in the average person's mind more often on a day to day basis: 1. a war going on thousands of miles away"

It certainly appeared to be #1 from 2002 to 2008.

9/16/2009 10:45:17 PM

re: the fake picture

Quote :

"Tea Party protesters trying to tout the size of their march on Washington last weekend have been passing around a photo of a packed National Mall. But the picture is years old. Politifact asked Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, if the rally was big enough to fill that space. Piringer said no -- and moreover, the picture can't be from 2009. "It was an impressive crowd," he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol the crowd "only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street," he said. Yet the photo showed the crowd sprawling far beyond that to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets. There's another big problem with the photograph: it doesn't include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth St. and Independence Ave. that opened on Sept. 14, 2004. (Looking at the photograph, the building should be in the upper right hand corner of the National Mall, next to the Air and Space Museum.) That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn't show the "tea party" crowd from the Sept. 12 protest. "I've seen bigger crowds at Montreal Expos games, but I still wouldn't fake a photo just to justify your predictions of millions descending on Washington," said one gleeful Democratic media strategist. "This is grade-A stupid and just plays into the argument that these were astroturf protests to begin with. They've always brought the noise, but the question that was supposed to be answered this weekend was, could they bring the numbers? In that respect this was an unmitigated disaster." The photo had been circulated on blogs and Twitter. A number of conservative blogs have since taken the photo down. Some have corrected their posts. Others say the circulation of the picture was a left-wing conspiracy to discredit the event. However, many of them are still claiming that at least a million people attended the march. Nate Silver estimates about 70,000 protesters showed up. It isn't the first failed attempt by the protesters to inflate the size of the event. On Saturday, organizer Matt Kibbe announced on stage that ABC News had estimated a crowd of 1 to 1.5 million. ABC News had reported no such thing. "

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 10:45:47 PM

Quote :

"its so obvious, ive seen countless collections of pictures in the news, and video streams and sound bites of about 1/20,000 of the population there, that they all must be representative "

I appreciate your desire to have your ideological peers not be seen as loons, but the ratio of idiots is FAR higher than 1/20,000 . I’d be surprised if you could find a video of the protesters WITHOUT someone saying something dumb. These protests aren’t more than a concentration of the most fanatical people from the town hall meetings.

9/16/2009 10:57:58 PM

they're not really even fanatical. they're just....well....scared. and they don't seem to know why.


and i'm sorry, but if you can't clearly articulate why you're upset, then you don't really have a leg to stand on. if you can't explain why you're angry without spitting up some drivel about czars, socialism, welfare, or abortion, then you're just pulling buzzwords out of your conservative word bank without actually understanding the root of your perceived problem.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 12:50:59 AM

I have six loved ones. Two, my parents, are retired. One, a teacher, missed a lay-off by a year. The remaining three? Laid off.

The "news" gets more absurd by the day.

NBC can't put a decent prime time line-up together.

Folks take out second mortgages because they want distinctive countertops.

Wall Street is still acting a fool.

Prisons are arbitrarily packed for the sake of political and financial profit.

Credit cards/banks are destroying our families.

People are getting fatter and fatter.

H1N1's running around. MRSA done showed up on public beaches.

And the kids! There are too many to teach.

And the old people. We can't care for them properly.

A distant war of some sort is pressing on.

Pharmaceuticals are being crammed down our throats.

Fast food is winning the war against our lives.

...and don't get me started on reality television.



I sympathize with their fear. Obviously, I don't blame Obama though.

9/17/2009 10:05:30 AM

And a MUSLIM KENYAN NEGRO is in control of the helm

RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIIIIIIVES

9/17/2009 10:07:59 AM

Physics tells us there's a whole other universe out there exactly like ours except everything is hunky dory. So we got that going for us.

9/17/2009 10:17:29 AM

^are you talking aboot canada?

9/17/2009 10:36:29 AM

Yeah, I'm not ready to strap on my cardboard sign and start predicting the apocalypse.

But I do think we are witnessing some especially bad signs. I'm trying to think back to a time that was as chaotic as this, and I think about the 70s and how things have actually gotten worse since then:

Our news is completely different and decidedly worse.

Everything that pertains to money is worse. Buyer/lender/seller greed is worse.

We're more sophisticated about it, but we are more drugged up than ever.

Our health is worse like crazy. We've solved some problems, but come on.

We have more people entering old age than ever, and it's not clear we're ready for the challenge.

Income gap is much worse.


Some "positives:"

Crime is down since the 70s. Prison number are less obscene than that big boom in the 80s.

Iraq and Afghanistan aren't as bad (for the US) as Vietnam.

Schools have probably improved since the 70s.


And what concerns me the most is that the root cause of most of the things that have gotten worse appears to be money and greed. Sure, the internet and technology have changed some things for the worse (mostly for the better, in my opinion). But, ultimately, the food companies, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, credit card companies, banks, investment firms, media outlets, etc...are greedier than ever, and more aggressive than ever in terms of marketing their poison to us... The past couple years have revealed that whatever we thought was fixed is not fixed, and it's actually worse.

We're going to carry on as always. The pendulum will swing...bad times will turn to good, and the good times will lull us into the belief that everything is okay, but the bad times will get worse and the good times will get less good.


I dunno. I believe all the crap about America being special, being the best. I believe there has to be a way for us to fuck fate in the ass on this one.

9/17/2009 10:58:47 AM

^i dont think we are the best
look at our debt, how can we be considered the wealthiest nation when we cannot pay our debt
look at our trade deficit
the dollar is also under attack from within and china and other countries who want a new reserve currency

we have a lot of problems that are decades in the making and we gotta pay the price at some point

9/17/2009 11:14:12 AM

Quote :

"I believe all the crap about America being special, being the best. "

why?

^and our debt actually isn't that bad when compared with the size of our economy.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 11:15:33 AM

9/17/2009 11:27:46 AM

our economy is bogus, all we do is borrow money from china to buy products from china
it is very vulnrable to collapse

9/17/2009 11:28:55 AM

Quote :

"Last weekend, tens of thousands of right-wing protesters invaded Washington, DC for the 912 March. Not only were they rallying against President Obama’s plans for health care reform, but more generally against “socialism,” government-run services, and too much taxation. A large number of the tea party protesters relied on DC’s transit system to get around the city. The Washington Metropolitan Transit Authority (WMATA) reported that on Sept. 12, metrorail ridership was double compared to an average Saturday. The Washington metro, of course, is public transit — in other words, it’s run by big government. Nevertheless, Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) has written a letter to WMATA complaining that the service wasn’t good enough for the tea baggers: “These individuals came all the way from Southeast Texas to protest the excessive spending and growing government intrusion by the 111th Congress and the new Obama administration,” Brady wrote. “These participants, whose tax dollars were used to create and maintain this public transit system, were frustrated and disappointed that our nation’s capital did not make a great effort to simply provide a basic level of transit for them.” A spokesman for Brady says that “there weren’t enough cars and there weren’t enough trains.” Brady tweeted as much from the Saturday march. “METRO did not prepare for Tea Party March! More stories. People couldn’t get on, missed start of march. I will demand answers from Metro,” he wrote on Twitter. In his letter, Brady also complained that overcrowding on the metro trains “forced an 80-year-old woman and elderly veterans in wheelchairs to pay for cabs” — in other words, to rely on the non-government-run transportation system, which tea party protesters would presumably want to support. A large part of the reason that the DC metro has had so many problems in recent years is that it doesn’t “have dedicated tax revenue.” It has often run into protests from people such Sen. Tom Coburn (R-TX), who has said that we shouldn’t “steal opportunity from our children so that we can have a ride on the Metro.” The American Public Transportation Association says that “recession-imposed limits on government budgets and increased demand are doubtless among the reasons why ‘transit systems are strained all over the country.’” Americans around the country are relying on metro more than ever. Last year, they took 10.7 billion trips, the highest level in 52 years. The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials reports that “an annual investment of $46 billion is needed to keep up with an expected 2.4 percent annual growth in ridership,” but in 2006, “transit capital from all levels of government amounted to only $13.3 billion.” As for Brady…John Cole points out that when a bill containing $150 million for emergency maintenance funding for the DC metro system came up this summer, Brady voted against it. "

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/17/transit-tea-party/

Quote :

" Steve Benen writes, "In some instances, Brady said constituents relied on private enterprise -- taxi cabs -- rather than the (ahem) public option. The conservative lawmaker described this as a bad thing. Local officials, Brady said, should have made "a great effort to simply provide a basic level of transit" to the public. Read that sentence again and replace 'transit' with 'health care coverage.'""

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:48 PM. Reason : oops - link]

9/17/2009 12:48:13 PM

Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck's life

Quote :

". Beck has been furiously promoting "The 5,000 Year Leap" for the past year, a push that peaked in March when he launched the 912 Project. That month, a new edition of "The 5,000 Year Leap," complete with a laudatory new foreword by none other than Glenn Beck, came out of nowhere to hit No. 1 on Amazon. It remained in the top 15 all summer, holding the No. 1 spot in the government category for months. ... "Leap," first published in 1981, is a heavily illustrated and factually challenged attempt to explain American history through an unspoken lens of Mormon theology. ... But more interesting than the contents of "The 5,000 Year Leap," and more revealing for what it says about 912ers and the Glenn Beck Nation, is the book's author. W. Cleon Skousen ... During his stint as police chief, Skousen began laying the groundwork for his future career as a professional anti-communist. He published a bestselling expose-slash-history called "The Naked Communist." In the late '50s, America's far right began to bubble with organizations peddling stories about the true state of the Red Menace. ... When Skousen's books started popping up in the nation's high-school classrooms, panicked school board officials wrote the FBI asking if Skousen was reliable. The Bureau's answer was an exasperated and resounding "no." One 1962 FBI memo notes, "During the past year or so, Skousen has affiliated himself with the extreme right-wing 'professional communists' who are promoting their own anticommunism for obvious financial purposes." Skousen's "The Naked Communist," said the Bureau official, is "another example of why a sound, scholarly textbook on communism is urgently and badly needed." ... By 1963, Skousen's extremism was costing him. No conservative organization with any mainstream credibility wanted anything to do with him. Members of the ultraconservative American Security Council kicked him out because they felt he had "gone off the deep end." One ASC member who shared this opinion was William C. Mott, the judge advocate general of the U.S. Navy. Mott found Skousen "money mad ... totally unqualified and interested solely in furthering his own personal ends." ... "Tragedy and Hope," Skousen believed, exposed the details of what would come to be known as the New World Order (NWO). ... They also asked a highly respected BYU history professor named Louis C. Midgley to review Skousen's latest pamphlet. Their judgment was not kind. In the Autumn/Winter 1971 issue of Dialogue, the two men accused Skousen of "inventing fantastic ideas and making inferences that go far beyond the bounds of honest commentary." ... Glenn Beck's first public reference to anything Skousen seems to have occurred in 2003. In his memoir-cum-manifesto, "The Real America," was a chapter titled "The Enemy Within." It consisted of a list titled "Communist Goals of 1963." The list was originally published in Skousen's 1958 book "The Naked Communist," ... Apparently, around about 2007, a friend of Beck's sent him "The 5,000 Year Leap." ... Whatever the circumstances, Beck really began touting Skousen in the latter half of 2007. The first brief mention of Skousen in the online archives of Beck's radio show is Sept. 24, 2007. Less than two months later, Beck interviewed conservative pundit David Horowitz on his radio program. He asked him, "Have you ever read any Skousen? Have you read -- do you remember 'The Naked Communist'? I went back and reread that, it was printed in the 1950s. I reread that recently. You look at all the things the communists wanted to accomplish. It's all been done." Horowitz agreed. ... ill Bennett appeared on Beck's radio program and received the same question. "Are you familiar with Skousen?" asked Beck. When Bennett replied yes, Beck gushed. "He's fantastic," he said. "I went back and I read 'The Naked Communist' and at the end of that Skousen predicted [that] someday soon you won't be able to find the truth in schools or in libraries or anywhere else because it won't be in print anymore. So you must collect those books. It's an idea I read from Cleon Skousen from his book in the 1950s, 'The Naked Communist,' and where he talked about someday the history of this country's going to be lost because it's going to be hijacked by intellectuals and communists and everything else. And I think we're there." ... "The first thing you could do," [Beck] said, "is get 'The 5,000 Year Leap.' Over my book or anything else, get 'The 5,000 Year Leap.' You can probably find it in the book section of GlennBeck.com "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/print.html

Wow.

it's a lot of reading, but it's the first good explanation i've seen of where all the recent insanity regarding Obama has been coming from. Apparently a paranoid, delusional FAR right-wing mormon might be at the center of it all.

9/17/2009 12:50:40 PM

Jeremiah Wright? oh nm, you said Mormon, not moron

9/17/2009 1:29:46 PM

^^ That's an interesting read, I guess...

My position is still, just like Skousen, Beck knows how to pander to a certain demographic and will continue to do so as long as it makes him money. They are showmen. Nothing more... I hardly think he believes half the shit he says.

Sad thing is that he pretty much single-handedly got a pretty good size group of people together to protest about... nothing in particular.

^ nice contribution...

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 1:34 PM. Reason : x]

9/17/2009 1:33:14 PM

I don't want a black president anymore.

I want a white male who says and does everything Barack Obama does. Just with white skin.

I feel really foolish for ever believing people would respect Obama.

Fuck this shit.

Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.

9/17/2009 1:39:30 PM

^^my bad, i guess i didnt pull the race card which is apparently a requirement in TSB nowadays

SORRY

9/17/2009 1:39:59 PM

9/17/2009 1:40:25 PM

I got an idea, let's post that in every topic in TSB

it's hilarious

9/17/2009 1:41:32 PM

9/17/2009 1:47:54 PM

^ haha



[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:01 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 1:59:00 PM

rawr

9/17/2009 2:00:52 PM

^^ Hahah. So true-- race is the new Godwin's Law among the right, it seems.

9/17/2009 2:08:39 PM

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama#Childhood_through_high_school_in_Hawaii_and_Indonesia

Man, what an ELITIST out of touch with the middle class

Unlike this REAL AMERICAN who knows what its like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_of_George_W._Bush

9/17/2009 2:12:25 PM

I disagree with Obama potentially raising my tax-

STFU YOU GOD DAMNED HILLBILLY RACIST

but i was merely objecting to raising taxes

YOU SHUT UP, I KNOW YOU'RE A RACIST, THERES ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON FOR YOU TO CRITICIZE OBAMA OTHER THAN THAT YOU'RE A REDNECK WHITE SUPREMACIST KKK MEMBER

---

whats easier than dealing with legit concerns? making shit up to completely discredit the person with those concerns

^i was just posting a political cartoon since everyone else was

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:13:31 PM

No one says that someone who raises valid concerns about government policies is a racist.

Key word there being "valid."

9/17/2009 2:14:50 PM

Quote :

"No one says that someone who raises valid concerns about government policies is a racist."

oh really? you must post in TSB but not read it...i've seen multiple people, in just the last 24 hours, basically say "all these supposed concerns are just buzz words to hide their racism"

i just thought it was funny that boone is saying that race is something the RIGHT is using

the left has been using race to silence and discredit any supporters of obama since well before he was elected

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:15:49 PM

Healthcare is socialism!

We're losing the country we fought for!

I'm afraid of what's happening to this country!

Obama is Adolf Hitler!

are not valid concerns.

9/17/2009 2:18:30 PM

What about "I'm sick of these government bailouts to big businesses" or "I wish the economy was stronger"

ONLY A RACIST WOULD SAY THAT

^and while I agree with most of that list, whats wrong with "I'm afraid of whats happening to this country"? Whats so invalid about that?


[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:22 PM. Reason : typo]

9/17/2009 2:20:20 PM

Quote :

"I'm sick of these government bailouts to big businesses"

Oversimplifying a complex situation that occurred over two presidencies.

Try making an educated argument. Something along the lines of, "I do not approve of the federal government's Troubled Asset Relief Program to assist financial institutions in the sub-prime mortgage crisis because of reasons 1, 2, and 3."

Quote :

"I wish the economy was stronger"

Don't we all?

Quote :

"whats wrong with "I'm afraid of whats happening to this country"? Whats so invalid about that?"

The White people are afraid.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 2:23:24 PM

Quote :

"the left has been using race to silence and discredit any supporters of obama since well before he was elected"

haha, it's the left that's been discrediting the opposition to Obama, and not the people opposing Obama themselves?

Tell me, which leftist told this guy to say that he thinks Obama is an Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/tea-party-leader-melts-do_n_286933.html

9/17/2009 2:25:14 PM

Quote :

"The White people are afraid."

hey look, perfect example...God is pulling the race card because he assumes "whats happening to our country" must be OMG THERES A BLACK GUY IN CHARGE...and not OMG THE ECONOMY IS IN THE SHITTER, WHEN IS THIS SHIT GONNA PICK BACK UP?

^i don't particularly care about some anecdotal evidence from fox news left...but denying that the left has and is still using the race card to silence MANY concerns, valid and invalid about Obama's policies, is just lying to yourself and sticking your head in the sand

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:27:13 PM

Quote :

"denying that the left has and is still using the race card to silence ANY concerns, valid and invalid, is just lying to yourself"

Nope, you're lying to yourself.

It's easier for you and the right to play the race-card card than to condemn the nutjobs on your side. If there is one thing Obama DOES have experience with, it's people judging him based on his race, and he knows how to handle these types of tactics.

9/17/2009 2:30:44 PM

and its easier for the left to play the race card rather than...accept that there are actually many valid concerns about obama's policies, and address the actual concerns of those policies

but the race card is just so much easier to pull, you don't even have to think about it, just call somebody a racist, its that easy

sadly the race card makes people who pull it more racist...they begin to ignore common sense and assume anything negative MUST be from a racist...so they search out racism...eventually thats all they see

(example: Al Sharpton)

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:33:28 PM

I guess why there's plenty of Black people at the tea parties and the town halls shouting these things.

9/17/2009 2:35:21 PM

Why does it matter to you (the race) of who says them?

This is just what I'm talking about...you are putting race in the fore front and making everything about race...the fact that you even point out the race of the people who say them makes you seem like you're making it all about race

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:36:33 PM

If your point is that these people do not have a problem with a Black man being in charge of their once White-ruled country, and that the problems are with the economy, loss of jobs, etc., then I would imagine that Black citizens would be experiencing just the same hardships, if not worse. Why, then, are they not present at these town halls shouting that they are concerned about the direction their country is going now that this President (I'm not racist but... who KNOWS if he's even a CITIZEN!?) is in charge.

9/17/2009 2:38:37 PM

with the exception of a vocal minority, i am arguing that the frustration is based on job loss, economy, etc, and not on race

who cares if its black or white people voicing those concerns? people who want to make everything about race

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:41 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:40:15 PM

Quote :

"and its easier for the left to play the race card rather than...accept that there are actually many valid concerns about obama's policies, and address the actual concerns of those policies"

What, you mean like the healthcare bill being held up in congress? Like removing the provision to pay for end-of-life counseling because of fears of death squads? like essentially backing away from the public option? Like Obama pushing for a deficit neutral plan (would you rather he say what Cheney said that "deficits don't matter*")?

Is there some rule that the right can't see reality, that they must always be the ones being persecuted?

The valid concerns ARE being addressed, but you have bigger issues when the overwhelming face of the opposition are completely insane people screaming about hitler, muslims, fascism, and death squads, and a majority of the south don't think the president was born in the US. None of this is helped by the fact that the most popular TV news agency does all they can to fan the flames of stupidity burning in the right, and then you have rightists like yourself protecting these fires.

* http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Dick_Cheney_Budget_+_Economy.htm

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 2:41:00 PM

Quote :

"the overwhelming face of the opposition are completely insane people screaming about hitler, muslims, fascism, and death squads, and a majority of the south don't think the president was born in the US"

you really shouldnt let a vocal minority give you some false stereotype of people in general...you're doing yourself a disservice

9/17/2009 2:42:37 PM

I mean, I guess it's just coincidence that all of these people, who are literally crying with fear, are White...

and a coincidence that they're asking for THEIR America back...

and a coincidence that the first President ever to have his birth roots become a national scandal is Black...

and a coincidence that the political cartoon you posted has huge monkey ears and a big fat nose...

9/17/2009 2:44:15 PM

^^ your head is up your ass if you think it's merely a "vocal minority" that are deranged about Obama:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/07/31/poll-on-birthers-most-southerners-republicans-question-obama-citizenship.html

Most Southerners, Republicans Question Obama Citizenship

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 2:44:31 PM

^^i google imaged for "obama cartoon" and picked the 2nd one

but thanks for continuing to pull the race card

people see and perceive what they want to

its clear what you want to see

^wow, a poll that only the vocal minority would even answer, thanks for another quality post moron

Quote :

"According to a new poll from Research 2000 (commissioned by Daily Kos)"

haha a poll commissioned by Daily Kos

shocking

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:46 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:45:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_0Kt_e3Go

9/17/2009 2:47:24 PM