5

1/19/2010 11:19:13 AM

I look forward to the Cadbury eggs filled with mac and cheese and rolled in Oreo dust.

1/19/2010 12:22:51 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: And what places do you go to ordering what you think is health food only to be served "barely labelled processed food product"? The simple fact of the matter is that no one walks into McDonalds expecting health food. No one who's primary source of food is burgerking thinks they're getting the best they can get. We've been over this before, if people are honestly concerned about their health and what they're eating, they make their own food, and they stay away from fast food."

I was talking about the grocery store, not McDonald's and Burger King. And it is barely labelled. The print is tiny, and you can't possibly know what all that shit is. I just take a guess when I'm in the store. I suppose I could write down every ingredient I'm not familiar with and then come home and research them on the internet. Hopefully, I wouldn't come across too much misleading propaganda during my research, and more importantly, I'd hope I'could understand the information, but I dunno.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: The funny thing is, that's not a picture from the US"

Yeah, it's funny how we put up fast food restaurants in other countries, and the people there get fat just like here, but then we claim that fast food restaurants aren't a problem.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: And all of this is irrelevant if instead of driving to your local McDonalds, you got off your ass and through some pasta in a pot and made your own damn food. In the end, it doesn't matter how shitty the food is if you aren't buying it in the first place."

Again, I wasn't talking about McDonald's. I was talking about the grocery store.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Every single food product in the store is mandated by law to have an ingredient list. If you can't look at that and tell the difference between "Flour, water, egg, sugar" bread and "Glucose, Highfructose corn syrup, asorbic acid, eye of newt, animal products" bread, then you have some pretty big problems. Further, if the food isn't satisfying you appetite, why do you keep buying it?"

Flour, water, egg, sugar? Where do you see ingredient lists like that? Ninety percent of the damn grocery store is glucose and corn syrup and shit.

Seriously though....eggs and sugar? The only place I see that is on the all natural ice creams and of course, the parts of the store where they keep actual eggs and sugar.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Pretty much. The information is out there and easily available. If you really need someone to walk behind you in the grocery store and tell you to put down the Fruit Loops (which BTW, it may dismay you to find out, do not actually contain fruit) and pick up the rolled oats and apples, then you probably have no business actually living on your own."

Everybody knows that McDonald's is bad for them, and everybody knows Fruit Loops are bad, too.

I'm talking about the fact that the good folks at Quaker found a way to make fucking oat meal bad for you all while labeling to look healthy as hell and marketing it as a way to make your kid more active and boost his grades.

A few corporations have packed our stores with so much useless "food" to the point that instead of having a candy aisle, we might as well consider the whole damn store candy and have a single healthy aisle.

I eat Triscuits in moderation. I really like the Rosemary and Olive Oil kind. It says on the box it's made with white winter wheat. In the store, I thought it sounded wholesome, but I knew it could just be their nice way of saying shit grain or something. I looked it up online...still not sure quite what it is, and the actual ingredients list just had whole wheat so I don't even know how much "white winter wheat" is in the cracker. The second ingredient is soybean/palm oil...I know palm oil is pretty bad, but I couldn't remember about the soybean oil...is that good or bad? They also have maltodextrin...not sure what that is...my bet's on processed corn... Even though I don't understand the ingredients, I eat them anyway because they taste good. And they look healthy!

[Edited on January 20, 2010 at 4:36 AM. Reason : Can't sleep.]

1/20/2010 4:34:07 AM

Somehow I'm managing not to eat a whole lot of processed nonsense and I still shop at a regular grocery store. I go in, I buy things like... actual fresh fruits and vegetables, frozen vegetables, real honest to god plain oatmeal (ingredient list: Rolled oats), eggs, chicken breast, salmon fillet (the frozen ones have some non-salmon coloring and some salt, but otherwise it's just fish), brown rice, milk, orange juice, raw almonds, etc. I'd say the most processed product in my pantry at the moment is the whole wheat bread I have. If I was super concerned I could probably hit the organic bread aisle and find something less processed.

It's just not difficult. I'd also say my average meal prep time is under 15 minutes, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than eating out.

1/20/2010 12:10:08 PM

^
What he said.

1/20/2010 1:07:11 PM

Quote :

"I was talking about the grocery store, not McDonald's and Burger King. And it is barely labelled. The print is tiny, and you can't possibly know what all that shit is. I just take a guess when I'm in the store. I suppose I could write down every ingredient I'm not familiar with and then come home and research them on the internet. Hopefully, I wouldn't come across too much misleading propaganda during my research, and more importantly, I'd hope I'could understand the information, but I dunno."

If you're that dumb, that unable to comprehend the world around you and that unable to find good sources of information, then you should be sticking to raw ingredients and making your own food instead of relying on others. If you want something done right, you do it yourself.

Quote :

" Flour, water, egg, sugar? Where do you see ingredient lists like that? Ninety percent of the damn grocery store is glucose and corn syrup and shit. Seriously though....eggs and sugar? The only place I see that is on the all natural ice creams and of course, the parts of the store where they keep actual eggs and sugar."

If you got out of the candy and chips isle once in a while, you might find real food. Just to illustrate, I was at Kroger (note, a normal every day grocery store, not a trader joes or whole foods or anything like that). The generic store brand bread with flour, corn syrup etc was $1. For $1.50 I bought a loaf of bread who's main ingredients consisted of four, water and sugar and honey or essentially the same stuff you make bread out of at home. Now yes, that's a whole $.50 more than the store brand stuff, but even assuming you go through a whole loaf a week, that's $26 a year, or one day of not going to outback for dinner.

Quote :

"It says on the box it's made with white winter wheat. In the store, I thought it sounded wholesome, but I knew it could just be their nice way of saying shit grain or something. I looked it up online...still not sure quite what it is, and the actual ingredients list just had whole wheat so I don't even know how much "white winter wheat" is in the cracker. The second ingredient is soybean/palm oil...I know palm oil is pretty bad, but I couldn't remember about the soybean oil...is that good or bad? They also have maltodextrin...not sure what that is...my bet's on processed corn... Even though I don't understand the ingredients, I eat them anyway because they taste good. And they look healthy!"

Like I said, if you're unable to function as a normal human being, yes this might be difficult for you. From the third hit on google for "white winter wheat":

Quote :

"Winter wheat is one of the major field crops grown in Nebraska, along with corn and soybean. http://cropwatch.unl.edu/web/wheat/home"

And from the second hit:

Quote :

"Organically grown soft white wheat, also known as pastry wheat, is lower in protein and gluten and higher in starch than hard wheat. When milled it is the preferred flour for making gravies, sauces, biscuits, cakes, pie crusts, cookies, and other pastries. Excellent when cooked as a whole grain or combined and cooked with brown rice; sweeter flavor and softer texture than hard wheat. A delightful crisp addition to salads, when sprouted. Heart Healthy* whole grain. http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=105880"

But again, the you made the point for me. Despite the fact that you don't know about the food that you're putting in your body, you choose to buy and eat it anyway. Clearly it doesn't really matter to you.

Quote :

"Somehow I'm managing not to eat a whole lot of processed nonsense and I still shop at a regular grocery store. I go in, I buy things like... actual fresh fruits and vegetables, frozen vegetables, real honest to god plain oatmeal (ingredient list: Rolled oats), eggs, chicken breast, salmon fillet (the frozen ones have some non-salmon coloring and some salt, but otherwise it's just fish), brown rice, milk, orange juice, raw almonds, etc. I'd say the most processed product in my pantry at the moment is the whole wheat bread I have. If I was super concerned I could probably hit the organic bread aisle and find something less processed. It's just not difficult. I'd also say my average meal prep time is under 15 minutes, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than eating out."

This.

1/20/2010 9:00:22 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: If you got out of the candy and chips isle once in a while, you might find real food. Just to illustrate, I was at Kroger (note, a normal every day grocery store, not a trader joes or whole foods or anything like that). The generic store brand bread with flour, corn syrup etc was $1. For $1.50 I bought a loaf of bread who's main ingredients consisted of four, water and sugar and honey or essentially the same stuff you make bread out of at home. Now yes, that's a whole $.50 more than the store brand stuff, but even assuming you go through a whole loaf a week, that's $26 a year, or one day of not going to outback for dinner."

To be clear, there’s a candy aisle, a chips aisle, a soda aisle, a crackers/cookies aisle, and a cereal/breakfast bar aisle. Sometimes, they put the soda and chips together, but regardless, it’s aisle after aisle of crap. The fact that a huge proportion of our grocery store is junk is a big part of my point. Consumers are overwhelmed with bullshit that is sold with outright lies.

Keep in mind that I haven’t advocated any legislation or particular philosophy about how to address this issue. I’m just saying that if you can’t acknowledge the power of the food industry and the tactics that they use, you’re not fit to discuss this matter.

When you blurt out shit about dumb, fat Americans scarfing down McDonald’s, you’re revealing a level of ignorance that disqualifies your opinions. It is NOT as simple as fat people doing fat stuff and being doomed to fattiness by their own fat behaviors.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: ?Like I said, if you're unable to function as a normal human being, yes this might be difficult for you. From the third hit on google for "white winter wheat”:"

I googled it already. My point was that I’m not sure how much of the information I can trust (the food industry is pretty damn good at propaganda), and while it says it’s made with white winter wheat, I don’t how much white winter wheat is in it. It just says “whole wheat” on the ingredients list. Knowing Nabisco, it wouldn’t surprise me if they hadn’t managed to make “whole wheat” bad.

The biggest reason why I picked the Triscuits is because Food Lion has these “guiding stars” that steer customers towards nutritious options. The rosemary and olive oil Triscuits got a maximum three stars. But the Kashi crackers didn’t get any stars at all…so maybe the whole stars system is about which distributors are willing to pay to get their items starred? And maybe Food Lion gave the Triscuits three stars because they have whole wheat and olive oil, which really isn’t a particularly compelling reason, especially considering the second ingredient is palm oil/soybean oil…olive oil shows up way down near the bottom of the list. Or maybe it’s the maltodextrin—I did some more research, and the stuff is supposed to be more easily digested, very few calories, and relatively unthreatening as an additive, but that also doesn’t really make the crackers nutritious or a healthy choice.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: But again, the you made the point for me. Despite the fact that you don't know about the food that you're putting in your body, you choose to buy and eat it anyway. Clearly it doesn't really matter to you. "

No, clearly it does matter to me since I took the time to investigate the Triscuits. For the most part, my grocery cart mirrors Kurtis636’s list, but you see, I like crackers. And, really, what is your point? Since I ate Triscuits without knowing what maltodextrin is and supposedly don’t care, we should let the food industry have a free-for-all with manipulation and misinformation?

1/21/2010 1:38:15 AM

lol, i love seeing people trying to find excuses to put less responsibility on themselves to the detriment of everyone.

1/21/2010 8:46:56 AM

Quote :

"Consumers are overwhelmed with bullshit that is sold with outright lies."

Yeah, except it's not being sold with outright lies. It would be one thing if the bag of doritos said something about nutrition, but that isn't the case. Just because you're too lazy to look at the nutrition label and research the ingredients doesn't mean the companies are lying about the food.

What's your solution, anyway? Put regulations on the food companies that only allow them to make food that you approve of? Or some government panel approves on? If your point is that there's a lot of worthless/unhealthy food in the grocery stores, I agree with you. I don't think the government should be stepping in to change that, though. The grocery stores sell what's popular; it's consumer-driven. Personal responsibility, et cetera.

1/21/2010 9:05:07 AM

Quote :

"For the most part, my grocery cart mirrors Kurtis636’s list, but you see, I like crackers."

My grocery list mirrors all the foods you passed over. I'll eat any damn crackers I please. All you have to do is get off your lazy and/or fat ass and exercise. If you have trained your body to be lazy and fat for the last 10-20 years, don't expect it to realize what to do day 1 of your fad diet/exercise.

1/21/2010 9:45:08 AM

They can have my Swiss Cake Roll when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

1/21/2010 9:47:13 AM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r: Yeah, except it's not being sold with outright lies. It would be one thing if the bag of doritos said something about nutrition, but that isn't the case. Just because you're too lazy to look at the nutrition label and research the ingredients doesn't mean the companies are lying about the food. What's your solution, anyway? Put regulations on the food companies that only allow them to make food that you approve of? Or some government panel approves on? If your point is that there's a lot of worthless/unhealthy food in the grocery stores, I agree with you. I don't think the government should be stepping in to change that, though. The grocery stores sell what's popular; it's consumer-driven. Personal responsibility, et cetera."

Try again. Next time work on not calling me lazy.

Quote :

"Norrin Radd: ??My grocery list mirrors all the foods you passed over. I'll eat any damn crackers I please. All you have to do is get off your lazy and/or fat ass and exercise. If you have trained your body to be lazy and fat for the last 10-20 years, don't expect it to realize what to do day 1 of your fad diet/exercise."

?

Nobody’s looking for weight loss advice here.

Seriously, are you retarded?

1/21/2010 1:22:57 PM

Is BridgetSPK fat?
Because if she is, it just can't be her fault, right?

I mean, when I was around 13 years old, I educated myself about food health with facts contrary to what my school and family had taught me. I took full control and responsibility over my diet before I even began to shop for food. How, BridgetSPK, was I able to do that? Am I some sort of super human? If a damn 13 year old can take the initiative and responsibility to learn about food health on their own, then how the ever living fuck can you even begin to suggest that adults can't do the same?

It really seems like you simply don't believe that someone can fail on their own. Do you? Can you describe to me a situation where someone's irresponsibility leads to their failure -- and where you're okay with that?

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 1:28 PM. Reason : ]

1/21/2010 1:26:58 PM

Fine. Somehow, I suspect that you'll still dodge the question because your position seems indefensible.

Yeah, except it's not being sold with outright lies. It would be one thing if the bag of doritos said something about nutrition, but that isn't the case. Just because you aren't willing to look at the nutrition label and research the ingredients doesn't mean the companies are lying about the food.

What's your solution, anyway? Put regulations on the food companies that only allow them to make food that you approve of? Or some government panel approves on? If your point is that there's a lot of worthless/unhealthy food in the grocery stores, I agree with you. I don't think the government should be stepping in to change that, though. The grocery stores sell what's popular; it's consumer-driven. Personal responsibility, et cetera.

1/21/2010 1:30:11 PM

^^You really think you're gonna convince me with that?

I had a problem with d357r0y3r calling me lazy.

And you think you're going to persuade me with a post about me maybe being fat and not wanting to take responsibility for it and questioning why I wasn't able to educate myself about food choices when I was 13...? That's the post you're going with? Like, you actually think I'm going to answer your little questions at the end?

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 1:32 PM. Reason : ?]

1/21/2010 1:32:23 PM

Quote :

"Consumers are overwhelmed with bullshit that is sold with outright lies. "

It might be advertised with lies and stretches but in the end, every prepared product has a federally mandated nutrition facts panel on it which tells you the truth about the product. If you don't compare the advertising claims to the information you're provided, that's your fault. Everyone already knows that advertising is the art of lying, hell kids learn that from the first time their karate chop action GI Joe doesn't really karate chop anything. Ultimately, you are responsible for your health and what you buy and eat. The information is out there, use it.

Quote :

"It is NOT as simple as fat people doing fat stuff and being doomed to fattiness by their own fat behaviors."

Actually, aside from genetic factors, it pretty much is. Everyone know the equation for fat: carlories in > calories out = fat. Everyone also knows garbage in = garbage out. Everything else is just details, and while those details are important, we aren't anywhere near the point of everyone (or even most people) being on the right side of the line. Now, if you can get everyone eating triscuits, with a calorie intake less than (or equal to) what they put out as opposed to cheese doodles with a side of oreos and they're still getting fat, then we can start talking about the evils of advertising triscuits as healthy.

Quote :

"My point was that I’m not sure how much of the information I can trust (the food industry is pretty damn good at propaganda), and while it says it’s made with white winter wheat, I don’t how much white winter wheat is in it. It just says “whole wheat” on the ingredients list. Knowing Nabisco, it wouldn’t surprise me if they hadn’t managed to make “whole wheat” bad."

So look for trustworthy sources, such as the university that the third link came from. Didn't they teach you how to do research in school?

As to how much wheat, I thought this was fairly common knowledge but I guess not. So for your information, ingredients are listed on the package in order of predominance within the product. Where the whole wheat on the list tells you roughly how much is in there, so given that it's the first item on the list, that means it is the primary ingredient in the product by weight. As to the specific percentage, well that becomes part of the recipe so you'll have to ask Nabisco, but again, if you're that deeply concerned, then you wouldn't be buying this in the first place.

Quote :

"The biggest reason why I picked the Triscuits is because Food Lion has these “guiding stars” that steer customers towards nutritious options. The rosemary and olive oil Triscuits got a maximum three stars. But the Kashi crackers didn’t get any stars at all…so maybe the whole stars system is about which distributors are willing to pay to get their items starred? And maybe Food Lion gave the Triscuits three stars because they have whole wheat and olive oil, which really isn’t a particularly compelling reason, especially considering the second ingredient is palm oil/soybean oil…olive oil shows up way down near the bottom of the list. Or maybe it’s the maltodextrin—I did some more research, and the stuff is supposed to be more easily digested, very few calories, and relatively unthreatening as an additive, but that also doesn’t really make the crackers nutritious or a healthy choice."

All of which goes back to you being responsible for yourself. It's your body, stop relying on other people to tell you what is and isn't a healthy food and make yourself an informed customer.

Quote :

"Since I ate Triscuits without knowing what maltodextrin is and supposedly don’t care, we should let the food industry have a free-for-all with manipulation and misinformation?"

No, the point is that since you ate triscuits without knowing what maltodextrin is, it means that you clearly are not as horribly concerned about it as you make yourself out to be, and so there is no reason to expect anyone else to go out of their way to inform you. If you were that worried about it, you wouldn't eat it, or you would research more before buying, or you would make it yourself. Since you did none of these, you aren't that concerned, so why should nabisco or food lion be any more concerned for you?

And no, for the record, I don't think we should let the food industry have a free for all. In fact, you will find that I have no problems with the nutrition labels precisely because it fits within what I see as the responsibility of the government, to ensure that people have access to the information they need to be an informed participant. But once the information is out there and easily accessible, it's up to you to decide what to do with that information.

1/21/2010 1:39:09 PM

^^

1) I didn't call you fat. I asked if you were fat. I don't know you. [you just edited your post to add the word "maybe". Next time, think before you post.]
2) I'm not trying to persuade you. I'm trying to understand your seemingly indefensible position.
3) I didn't' question why you were or weren't able to take responsibility for food choices when you were 13. I was clearly talking about myself and society in general.
4) And no, I seriously doubt you'll answer my or other's questions here. (Because your position is indefensible.)


Here's my post again:

Quote :

"Is BridgetSPK fat? Because if she is, it just can't be her fault, right? I mean, when I was around 13 years old, I educated myself about food health with facts contrary to what my school and family had taught me. I took full control and responsibility over my diet before I even began to shop for food. How, BridgetSPK, was I able to do that? Am I some sort of super human? If a damn 13 year old can take the initiative and responsibility to learn about food health on their own, then how the ever living fuck can you even begin to suggest that adults can't do the same? It really seems like you simply don't believe that someone can fail on their own. Do you? Can you describe to me a situation where someone's irresponsibility leads to their failure -- and where you're okay with that?"

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 1:44 PM. Reason : ]

1/21/2010 1:42:59 PM

Quote :

" Quote : "Norrin Radd: ??My grocery list mirrors all the foods you passed over. I'll eat any damn crackers I please. All you have to do is get off your lazy and/or fat ass and exercise. If you have trained your body to be lazy and fat for the last 10-20 years, don't expect it to realize what to do day 1 of your fad diet/exercise." ? Nobody’s looking for weight loss advice here. Seriously, are you retarded? "

What the fuck are we talking about then?
the third post on this page has a comment from you about food making people fat

Quote :

"Yeah, it's funny how we put up fast food restaurants in other countries, and the people there get fat just like here, but then we claim that fast food restaurants aren't a problem."

What is your arguement? Seems to me you are saying the reason the food in unhealthy is because it makes people fat? If that's the case and all you have to do is have a more active life style, then is it really the food's fault that you are lazy?

Unless you are making another claim about why the food is unhealthy?
Are you claiming the food to be poisonous? What is your position? What is wrong with the ingredients?

Seriously, are you retarded? or maybe that's the food's fault too?



[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/21/2010 2:32:32 PM

Bridget is actually pretty consistent in her indefensible positions. She pretty much always denies that people have a duty to take responsibility for themselves and their actions regardless of what the subject is. This is just another in her string of ridiculous opinions. She and I differ greatly in that I believe that people are about 99% responsible for their own actions, and she thinks they are about 10% responsible for their own actions. From there you can sort of extrapolate what both she and I think on most subjects.

If you can't be bothered to eat healthy foods and take 30 minutes out of your day to exercise then you deserve to be in bad shape. There is a wealth of easily accessible information available to the public and getting exercise requires literally zero money. The VAST majority of people aren't so busy or so destitute that they can't do this, they just choose not to.

I mean, I know Lost is on, but DVR it and take a walk, then you can come back and watch it without the commercials. I know that a Hungry Man bacon cheddar cheese fries dinner only takes like 12 minutes to microwave, but you can steam broccoli and grill salmon in even less, and of those two meals only one of them will give you runny shits later.

Just because there are a lot of people out there who do not to exert self-control and remain ignorant of basic nutrition doesn't mean that it's not possible for them to do so or to educate themselves.

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM. Reason : asdfsad]

1/21/2010 3:07:11 PM

And there are also people that are happy being "overweight" according to 19th crackpot standards like BMI.

I had pad thai for lunch. mmmmmm..

1/21/2010 4:06:14 PM

BMI is hard to reconcile with reality when people like T.O. are considered morbidly obese based on BMI.

I'm much more concerned with things like resting pulse, body fat %, and blood pressure than I am with what my BMI might be.

1/21/2010 4:18:17 PM

Nice thread!!!

1/21/2010 7:53:28 PM

I remember when BMI first came out, and it was supposed to be this new thing, but it's precisely the same as those old heigh/weight charts except there's a simple calculation involved. It's totally weird to me that "they" (?) think they could insert a little math trick and have a more appropriate measure of good health.

Kurtis636 is in some ways pretty right on in his second to last post, and I probably take most kindly to his post because he didn't call me fat, lazy, or stupid/dumb.

Apparently, everybody in the whole Wolf Web and I disagree on the way society works. I like to think of myself as an individual who just makes my own choices, but I know that's not true. I see the influence others (peers, corporations, government, family, advertisers, friends, etc...) have over me. And because I know that I'm not a person who just magically makes my own choices, I'm actually better than most at fighting and...making my own choices.

You guys can't possibly look at these massive trends and sit back and claim that people are just dumb, lazy and gluttonous. To be clear, they haven't just done it here. As other countries emerge as industrial nations, our "food" industry flocks to their stores, and voila, they get fat, too. I don't see how you can look at that and not acknowledge the power of the food firms at all.

I'm not saying we need to do something one way or another, and I feel that I've been clear about this...I just need you guys to admit that society is more than a bunch of individuals making independent decisions, that behemoth corporations do influence us, that the factors at play here are much more complicated than a collection of people randomly and spontaneously deciding to eat Twinkies at the same time.

[Edited on January 22, 2010 at 12:29 AM. Reason : another edit, omg, i need to think before i post! ]

1/22/2010 12:26:00 AM

Quote :

"You guys can't possibly look at these massive trends and sit back and claim that people are just dumb, lazy and gluttonous. To be clear, they haven't just done it here. As other countries emerge as industrial nations, our "food" industry flocks to their stores, and voila, they get fat, too. I don't see how you can look at that and not acknowledge the power of the food firms at all. "

I would imagine you would find that changes to lifestyle follow as well. That is to say, as you move from a society in which you have to work back breaking labor from sun up to sun down to ensure you have enough food if the sun doesn't shine for a few weeks to a society in which there's so much food going around that people routinely throw it away, I would imagine that your lifestyle also becomes more sedentary and the amount of food available (and therefore the amount you can and do eat) increases.

Quote :

"I just need you guys to admit that society is more than a bunch of individuals making independent decisions, that behemoth corporations do influence us, that the factors at play here are much more complicated than a collection of people randomly and spontaneously deciding to eat Twinkies at the same time."

Of course it's more complicated than that, which is why this didn't happen overnight. But in the end, you are the person that walks into the grocery store, grabs the box of fried grease corn and puts it in your basket. You are then the person that walks past the carts of fruits and vegetables, goes to the cash register, pays for the fried grease corn and goes home and stuffs your face. In the end, no one actually forces you. They may influence you, they may tempt you, but you are responsible for your body and baring a genetic factor, if you are fat, it is your fault.

1/22/2010 1:41:49 PM

Quote :

"I would imagine you would find that changes to lifestyle follow as well. That is to say, as you move from a society in which you have to work back breaking labor from sun up to sun down to ensure you have enough food if the sun doesn't shine for a few weeks to a society in which there's so much food going around that people routinely throw it away, I would imagine that your lifestyle also becomes more sedentary and the amount of food available (and therefore the amount you can and do eat) increases. "

my thoughts exactly.
There are no magical factors at play here. People are lazy. Once their survival needs are met there is progressively less incentive to work hard. You have to make the choice. This is why the wellfare system/communism/etc is broken. Why would you work hard to get something that someone is going to give you for free? If you are lazy, you wouldn't.

I'm sorry that you can't take kindly to a post that doesn't sugar coat (pun intended) the truth. But this seems to be your nature, you can either accept it and stfu, or start making good decisions. But don't go pointing fingers trying to solve your problems.

1/22/2010 3:16:20 PM

Deborah Blum writes about the Federal program to poison alcohol during prohibition:

Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people.

What Blum fails to mention is that the Federal program to poison alcohol continues to this day. Drinking-alcohol is heavily taxed but ethanol is heavily subsidized so poisoning or denaturing is used to prevent arbitrage. Even today some people occasionally go blind or die when they try to drink some form of denatured ethanol but this is rare since safe, drinking alcohol is readily available, even if expensive.
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/02/alcohol-poisoning.html

2/21/2010 11:49:22 AM

^
I am not the least bit shocked to learn that. Authoritarians are evil. They are mother-fucking evil. (And I don't even believe in evil.)

They will assault society forever if nothing is done to stop them. Why? Because they actually think they're doing good.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” —C. S. Lewis

[Edited on February 21, 2010 at 12:35 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2010 12:34:54 PM

bump by request

7/10/2010 2:42:34 AM

EVIL SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!11

7/10/2010 2:48:17 AM

Food Police Strike Again: Soda Ban in San Francisco
By Jason Kuznicki
July 8, 2010

Quote :

"What can I say about San Francisco's ban on vending machines for sugared soft drinks on city property? I could say that a twelve ounce can of Coca-Cola has fewer calories than twelve ounces of whole milk, because it does — 140 to 216. I could say that you'll be even fatter if you substitute whole milk for Coke, ounce for ounce, because you will be. I could say that the extra nutrients in milk don't do anything to make it less fattening, because they don't. I could say that 12 ounces of soy milk has 198 calories, which is still well above Coke's 140. I could even say that switching to skim milk doesn't help you all that much — if you do the math, you'll find that there are 124.5 calories in 12oz of skim milk, compared, again, to 140 for Coke. I could also point out that a tall Starbucks Frappuccino — also 12 ounces, and not covered by the ban — has 190 calories, largely from sugar and fat. I could ask: Does anyone ever order a plain Frappuccino? A tall mocha Frappuccino has 220 calories. Finally, I could point out that banning vending-machine drinks while leaving Starbucks untouched is a pretty rank example of class privilege at work — my indulgences are sophisticated and upper-class, while yours are vulgar and prole. And, I imagine I hardly need to make the case that this ban is the thin end of a wedge, and that comprehensive regulation of sugar, fat, and salt is on the way. But really, it's a lot simpler than that. What I should say is that your body is yours. Liberals themselves would tell you just the same in many other contexts. It's yours to do with as you see fit. It's yours to use, and it's yours to use up, as Dan Savage once put it. (Can bans on risky sex be far behind?) Part of being free is being free to make bad choices, to take risks, and to bear the consequences. Part of being free is that you, personally, may decide what you eat or drink. It's a liberty so elementary that our founders never even imagined that it would need protection, but today, it does. (These same founders also rioted when the British taxed their tea. Which I’m sure Parliament only did for their own good anyway.) To be sure, there are many costs associated with socialized health care, and some of the choices we make will certainly raise those costs. That's one big reason why the nanny state is suddenly in the food business. But if we absolutely must have socialized health care — a point I don't for a moment concede — then I'd prefer to pay a little bit extra and keep all my other liberties, thanks."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/food-police-strike-again-soda-ban-in-san-francisco

Hear, hear!



Join CSPI! Be a skeletal loon like me!

[Edited on July 10, 2010 at 3:18 AM. Reason : .]

7/10/2010 3:18:35 AM

Quote :

"EVIL SUGAR HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP!!!!!!!!!!11"

7/10/2010 3:19:16 AM

^^I finally got around to watching the video that JCASHFAN posted on the third page, and I think it reasonably debunks all the "I could..." statements that Kuznicki guy has to offer.

I'd rather have my child drink the 12 oz. of milk because it has more nutrition, it doesn't pervert their metabolisms or destroy their teeth, and it fills them up.

Furthermore, this is about vending machines on city property...unless there are Starbucks inside city buildings, I don't think SF can do much about them...so why is your author even bringing them up?

Anyway, I'm just saying Kuznicki shoulda stuck to talking about liberty and not started his argument with a bunch of bullshit.

7/10/2010 5:17:54 PM

^ If the SF soda machine ban on city property is such a great idea, why not expand it to cover the rest of the city? Hell, why not the rest of the state and beyond?

Some of you tend to poo-poo the slippery slope, but you really shouldn't here--I don't think there will ultimately be a lot of middle ground on this issue. It's not paranoia or anything of the sort to realize that our rights aren't being taken all at once--they're being taken incrementally, helped along the way by apathetic shoulder-shruggers like you.

7/10/2010 6:58:53 PM

Quote :

"I could say that you'll be even fatter if you substitute whole milk for Coke, ounce for ounce, because you will be."

Complete fucking horseshit.

7/10/2010 7:05:48 PM

:shoulder shrug:

[Edited on July 10, 2010 at 7:10 PM. Reason : And way to go on the misdirect instead of dealing with the SF soda ban itself. ]

7/10/2010 7:06:41 PM

I just felt like I needed to make sure everyone knew that your article was bullshit.

But since you asked my opinion (I guess you did), it's not really a big deal to me since it's on city property. It would be a different situation if it was banned city-wide.

7/10/2010 7:21:18 PM

Quote :

"Some of you tend to poo-poo the slippery slope"

Eww!

7/10/2010 7:21:46 PM

^^ Yet, you offer no evidence.

:shoulder shrug:

7/10/2010 7:30:13 PM

^ Oh fuck off. I'm not gonna go look up articles to tell you that milk is better for you than goddamn Coca-cola.

7/10/2010 7:40:08 PM

Quote :

"^ Yet, you offer no evidence. :shoulder shrug:"

7/10/2010 7:45:19 PM

Quote :

"And way to go on the misdirect instead of dealing with the SF soda ban itself."

I'm surprised they haven't been banned in all public buildings already. We done took 'em out of most schools...if we're willing to admit that we shouldn't be making sugar water readily available for our children, why would we serve it up for our public servants?

Any adult who wants to continue drinking their sugared beverages will be free to bring some from home...and we'll even keep the corn subsidies in full effect so they can buy them from the grocery store nice and cheap.

7/10/2010 7:53:28 PM

Soda Bad, Juice Good?…
February 24, 2010

Quote :

" My years of consumer reporting have taught me: often what you think you know… is not so. We're told that soda is bad, if not evil. It's loaded with sugar. Sugar makes people fat. Rots their teeth. It provides only empty calories. On the other hand, fruit is good… and therefore fruit juice is good. Give the kids fruit juice instead of soda. Juice ads brag that fruit juice is the 'natural' drink. What the ads don't tell you is that fruit juice contains as much sugar as Coke and Pepsi: ten teaspoons of sugar in a 12 oz. glass. The Los Angeles Times explains that fruit juice can be more fattening, and maybe worse for you, than soda: Ounce per ounce, it contains more calories than soda, though it tends to be consumed in smaller servings. A cup of orange juice has 112 calories, apple juice has 114, and grape juice packs 152, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The same amount of Coke has 97 calories, and Pepsi has 100… Making matters worse, the human body is ill-equipped to process the sugar that is concentrated in a glass of juice. When fructose is eaten in a piece of fruit, it enters the body slowly so the liver has time to convert it into chemical energy. But a single glass of apple juice has the fructose of six apples. I asked Sarah Wally, who speaks for the Juice Products Association, why juice companies have the nerve to promote their products as healthy. Her answer: 'We have to look at the nutrient content of 100% juice. And it's supplying important vitamins and minerals and it's supplying a full serving of fruit in just a half a cup of fruit juice.' In fairness, fruit juice does give you some vitamins and nutrients. But just don't forget that it also gives you 10 teaspoons of sugar."

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/02/24/soda-bad-juice-good%E2%80%A6/

ZOMG STOSSEL!!!1

7/10/2010 7:58:36 PM

Quote :

"I would imagine you would find that changes to lifestyle follow as well. That is to say, as you move from a society in which you have to work back breaking labor from sun up to sun down to ensure you have enough food if the sun doesn't shine for a few weeks to a society in which there's so much food going around that people routinely throw it away, I would imagine that your lifestyle also becomes more sedentary and the amount of food available (and therefore the amount you can and do eat) increases."

Quote :

"my thoughts exactly. There are no magical factors at play here. People are lazy. Once their survival needs are met there is progressively less incentive to work hard. You have to make the choice. This is why the wellfare system/communism/etc is broken. Why would you work hard to get something that someone is going to give you for free? If you are lazy, you wouldn't."

these were posted a while back but I disagree that industrialization = laziness = fat. Plenty of first world nations don't have an obesity problem. It's the shit we call food and the car-centric culture in America that's causing the ruckus.

Heard of the French paradox? France has less obesity than America despite a diet high in delicious things like foie gras, bacon, and duck confit. Turns out that not all fats are created equal, plus the French (get this) eat fruit and vegetables. And talk about welfare! Guess that only turns you into a fattie if you live in the USA

7/10/2010 8:17:30 PM

^^? What's your point?

Everybody knows that fruit juice is loaded with sugar. That's one reason why a lot of parents choose to water it down...

7/10/2010 8:27:02 PM

what the fuck is juice?

7/10/2010 8:31:37 PM

Quote :

"Everybody knows that fruit juice soda is loaded with sugar. That's one reason why a lot of parents choose to water it down moderate the amount their children drink..."

7/11/2010 3:02:55 AM

Still waiting for all the evidence that milk is "better" for you than soda, OopsPowSrprs.

7/11/2010 6:08:45 PM

Considering milk has positive health nutrients like protein and vitamin d. I'd say it's better for you than Coca-Cola which only has sugar. (this is coming from a daily soda drinker who thinks this ban is stupid)

Also, I think it's far easier to drink excessive amounts of soda than it is to drink an excess of milk. (Ever hear of the gallon challenge?)

[Edited on July 11, 2010 at 7:34 PM. Reason : ]

7/11/2010 7:22:55 PM

Quote :

"San Francisco's ban on vending machines for sugared soft drinks on city property"

...If it's just city/government property, that's really not so bad, to me.

I support the right of consumers to purchase a product from an automated vending machine set up by an individual or corporation, so long as that machine's owner has agreed with the property owner that the machine be allowed on said property...

That said, if the property owner is the city/government and they say they don't want a vending machine on their property... okay. Sure.

[Edited on July 11, 2010 at 7:45 PM. Reason : .]

7/11/2010 7:44:22 PM

Quote :

"Still waiting for all the evidence that milk is "better" for you than soda, OopsPowSrprs."

Take a step back and read that again. Do you realize what a retard you sound like?

7/11/2010 7:59:07 PM