15 cents per tree

this thread is still going?


[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM. Reason : ]

12/2/2011 10:18:30 AM

THREE

FIFTHS

OF A QUARTER

12/2/2011 11:10:43 AM

12/2/2011 11:13:28 AM

Quote :

"I'd like to see a source for your 110%."

That's the number our in-house cost analysis group uses when we supply estimates to the CBO.

12/2/2011 11:23:36 AM

Okay, but I'd like to see a source saying that's how the USDA operates. It's be interesting to see a breakdown of their operational costs.

12/2/2011 11:24:37 AM

Your quote, not mine:

"you forgot step 4 where you make an argument about something without even knowing what you're arguing about. Americans excel at that skill."

It just seems hypocritical that you lambast people for arguing with someone who "knows what they're talking about" then when someone makes a point counter to what you think who "knows what they're talking about", you question it. At least be consistent within yourself.

Seriously, though, they are still an executive office and the overhead value we use for funding estimates is a generic one for all federal employees. Its different for sailors, marines, civilian agents, etc. I'm telling you from working within the same construct that is exactly how the funding works. Feel free to argue that it should still be acceptable if you want, but good grief, if you're really going to stand by your previous comments about the "state of politics making you sad" because we argue with people who are professionals or trained in a specific area, then practice what you preach.

12/2/2011 11:45:31 AM

15

CENTS

12/2/2011 12:15:03 PM

...so....no source?

12/2/2011 12:27:44 PM

I'm curious how pork is an essential commodity and Christmas trees aren't when a large segment of the population has no use for either one for the same reason. Again, USDA is just a figurehead here in any case. It's just really impractical for x thousand farmers nationwide to collectively say "ok let's have a meeting."

12/2/2011 12:33:25 PM

"Sometimes you gotta do the right thing even when the wrong thing is a whole lot easier." - Tracy Jordan, Hard to Watch

12/2/2011 12:36:43 PM

Quote :

"...so....no source?"

I have a source, it's just not posted online. Every two weeks, funds managers get pay slips that outline exactly what they are paying for in their organization. Last time I managed one of these I was getting "paid" ~$70/hour. Really it was me taking $35ish and the rest going to overhead.

That's one of the reasons why for the past 20 years the government has been contracting everything out to the private industries. Unfortunately, companies have figured out how to game the system and beef up their contracts, so in 2009, SECDEF came out and announced that he was moving more projects back into "inherently government controlled programs". The idea is that the overhead may be more, but the overall cost is less and the efficiency of the project is much higher not having to use private companies and middle-men.

If you are doubting that overhead exists... you're just trolling.

Quote :

"I'm curious how pork is an essential commodity and Christmas trees aren't when a large segment of the population has no use for either one for the same reason."

You seriously don't see a difference between pork, a commodity that adds to the US food supply, and Christmas trees. You've had a lot of good points and shed some light on some new facts, but this wasn't your best response.

12/2/2011 1:07:40 PM

We could all get by without either. Hell, if you completely eliminated any type of livestock, the global food supply would actually increase substantially. I don't want that, as I love a good pork belly as much as the next guy, but to call any kind of meat "essential" is inaccurate. I see what you're saying, but there's not really anything that makes one commodity "better" than another as far as whether they should be allowed to conduct a checkoff program.

12/2/2011 1:30:18 PM

Quote :

"I have a source, it's just not posted online. Every two weeks, funds managers get pay slips that outline exactly what they are paying for in their organization. Last time I managed one of these I was getting "paid" ~$70/hour. Really it was me taking $35ish and the rest going to overhead."

So you worked for the USDA? I'm not saying overhead doesn't exist, but you can't be claiming that every government organization operates their accounting exactly the same. I would imagine the DOD has very different books from the White House Press Corp to the Department of Education to the Department of Commerce, etc. It's like me trying to say that because I worked for Starbucks I know how every coffee shop uses their budget and if they run in the red or black.

12/2/2011 1:35:37 PM

Quote :

"I'm not saying overhead doesn't exist, but you can't be claiming that every government organization operates their accounting exactly the same."

Money appropriates are government by congressional law that says any money collected for an intended purpose must be used for that purpose. If the USDA is acting as a collections agency, then they are not being appropriated those funds from the $2 million.

In addition to that, you're forgetting that the recommendation from the tree growers to institute this fee occured 2 years ago. No money has been collected, but the issues has been discussed and the options have been analyzed. That costs money and "discussions" in any executive department aren't cheap.

BTW, accounting in most executive departments, due to the way funds are handed out, are all done pretty much the same. The FARs dictate a lot of what you can and can not do with money, and that's government-wide. Hense...

Quote :

"It's like me trying to say that because I worked for Starbucks I know how every coffee shop uses their budget and if they run in the red or black. "

...no, it would be more like saying "I work for Victoria Secret which is owned by The Limited who also owns Express. I bet that they was Express has to run their books is very similar to ours because we have the same overarching authority governing our accounting."

Your example would be more like me working in the DoD and trying to tell you how France manages their budget.

(EDIT: ActionPants, I saw your response and I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I feel like there is a stark difference between pork and Christmas trees, particularly when speaking to the necessity of the product. I get your point... I just disagree.)

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 1:51 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 1:47:21 PM

FIF

TEEN

CENTS

12/2/2011 2:05:35 PM

I was wondering why the christmas trees outside food lion were $35...
























and 15 cents.

12/2/2011 4:09:40 PM

First two pages were pretty funny...now its just general tsb poo flinging

12/2/2011 4:11:46 PM

FIFTEEN

GODDAMN

CENTS

12/2/2011 4:23:55 PM