Quote :

"it isn't worse than the death penalty."

i don't think it is either, that was Kurtis636's claim

1/19/2014 10:38:07 AM

http://www.pewforum.org/2014/03/28/shrinking-majority-of-americans-support-death-penalty/

3/28/2014 12:23:28 PM

Death penalty is barbaric, I don't think anyone can deny this. But we are a barbaric species.

3/28/2014 2:29:59 PM

I think I find myself erring more on the side of incarcerating people for life, but then there's this case of torturing a 4 year old in Johnston county, and the dude in Cleveland. I really have a hard time giving a shit how humanely they are treated

3/28/2014 8:47:38 PM

Definitely barbaric, but boy is it satisfying flipping the switch and watching a subhuman rapist/killer fry and sizzle like bacon in a well seasoned skillet. Mmmm bacon.

3/30/2014 12:20:50 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/man-cleared-nyc-murder-25-years-prison-182841043.html

4/9/2014 1:10:17 PM

^ doesn't mention a payout. that sucks though.

4/11/2014 10:36:23 AM

The Ghost of George Stinney, Jr.: How The Justice System Hasn't Evolved As Much As You Think
byGrizzardFollow
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/21/1178154/-The-Ghost-of-George-Stinney-Jr-How-The-Justice-System-Hasn-t-Evolved-As-Much-As-You-Think

Quote :

"George Stinney was just taller than five feet and he didn't weigh 100 pounds. He bravely carried a Bible under his arm as he walked toward the electric chair. Because the electric chair was not designed to kill small children, the prison guards asked him to use his book as a Biblical booster seat. The electric chair's mask wouldn't fit his face, and it slipped off during the execution, exposing a 14-year old's fear and terror. He died in only four minutes, done in by electrocution inflicted by the state and all of its citizens."

Justice!

4/18/2014 4:12:26 PM

Appeals to emotion should be a capital offense.

4/19/2014 1:27:46 PM

Quote :

"The racial problems with the death penalty are well-documented, but George Stinney's alleged crime falls into the most unfortunate of categories. A black male killing white women was certainly punished more harshly back then, but it seems that we punish it more harshly today, too. One study found that a person who kills a white victim is roughly four times more likely to get the death penalty than a person who kills a black victim. This is a nod to the era of George Stinney, when people were so outraged over the killing of innocent white girls that they threatened the lynching of George Stinney's innocent black family. We may want to believe that we have moved past the sort of insidious mindset that assigns more value to white lives than black lives, but the mindset is permanently stained onto our justice system. We have, in effect, institutionalized the very racial inequality we seek to eradicate."

4/19/2014 6:43:00 PM

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/oklahoma-botched-executions-043014?src=soc_fcbks

Quote :

"I am saying this quite deliberately. The state of Oklahoma committed an act of fucking barbarism last night. It did so under the color of law, which makes every citizen of that benighted state complicit in the act of fucking barbarism. The governor of that state, a pink balloon named Mary Fallin, is a fucking barbarian. A state legislator named Mike Christian is a fucking barbarian, for reasons we will get to in a moment. Every politician in that benighted state belongs in a fucking cage this morning"

4/30/2014 8:30:56 PM

Quote :

"Eduard Delacroix Clayton Lockett is dead."

4/30/2014 8:45:13 PM

Why dont they just OD these guys on any of the peaceful depressants that people OD on regularly?

This three drug combo is unnecessarily complex and begs the question 'do they want them to suffer?'

Either way no medical personnel are involved so who gives a shit? Just put them to sleep.

4/30/2014 8:55:17 PM

buying heroin on the street is less shady than some of the black market shit that states are doing to buy their lethal injection drugs

4/30/2014 9:00:36 PM

http://time.com/82375/every-execution-in-u-s-history-in-a-single-chart/?hpt=hp_t2

5/1/2014 3:56:33 PM

i don't understand why they just don't pump them full of morphine. that should do it pretty painlessly.

5/1/2014 7:25:49 PM

There was something about morphine or the like that made it less desirable for some reason. Like the dosage for killing someone is highly variable. I say fuck it, give them enough to kill an elephant. I mean, if you're going to execute someone, which I largely disagree with.

5/2/2014 11:02:44 PM

Just blow their brains out. At least then you're not concealing and diminishing and depersonalizing the act (the killing of a human being) behind modern technology. (Hanging or beheading would also be acceptable)

But I mean, we're killing somebody. I'm actually in favor of it in certain cases; but if one is going to be in favor of it, one should have to face up to it.


[Edited on May 2, 2014 at 11:38 PM. Reason : wefjowejo]

5/2/2014 11:29:27 PM

5 Reasons Why Jesus People Ought Oppose The Death Penalty
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/5-reasons-why-jesus-people-ought-oppose-the-death-penalty/

1. Most attempts to make a biblical case for the support of capital punishment are arguments primarily based on Old Testament law, and that’s a poor way to do Christian theology.

2. Jesus overturned the Old Testament law that allowed retributive violence.

3. During his ministry, Jesus publicly thwarted an execution.

4. Jesus teaches that it is better to show mercy and compassion than to obey the law.

5. The application of the death penalty in America is unjustly used and applied.

5/3/2014 11:14:05 AM

http://www.wral.com/arizona-execution-takes-nearly-2-hours/13836386/

Quote :

"Family members of Wood's victims in a double 1989 murder said they had no problems with the way the execution was carried out. 'This man conducted a horrific murder and you guys are going, let's worry about the drugs,' said Richard Brown, the brother-in-law of Debbie Dietz. 'Why didn't they give him a bullet, why didn't we give him Drano?' Wood looked at the family members as he delivered his final words, saying he was thankful for Jesus Christ as his savior. At one point, he smiled at them, which angered the family. 'I take comfort knowing today my pain stops, and I said a prayer that on this or any other day you may find peace in all of your hearts and may God forgive you all,' Wood said."

I understand that the brother-in-law was upset, but advocating death by Drano seems pretty extreme.

7/24/2014 12:26:56 PM

^^ I agree. I think the death penalty's pretty jacked up. A lot of Christians do (unfortunately not a lot of Republicans, with a lot of money and political clout, feel the same way).

At the same time, to counter the "Christians are hypocrites because they are only pro-life when it comes to abortion" claim, any reasonable person would understand that it's much easier to make the case (from both a Biblical or secular perspective) of saving the lives of innocent babies than of, say, murderers.

7/28/2014 10:56:43 AM

Quote :

"any reasonable person would understand that it's much easier to make the case (from both a Biblical or secular perspective) of saving the lives of innocent babies than of, say, murderers."

I think any reasonable person should be able to make a distinction between an embryo and a baby.

7/28/2014 11:00:29 AM

Any reasonable person, and all respected scientists, admit that the third trimester or whatever line we want to make as distinguishing personhood is completely significantly arbitrary

so i welcome any hard evidence that tells us when an "embryo"/"fetus"/"baby" becomes a "person"

[Edited on July 28, 2014 at 11:12 AM. Reason : ]

7/28/2014 11:08:54 AM

I said embryo

7/28/2014 11:10:20 AM

So are you saying abortion should be limited to only the first 8 weeks?

7/28/2014 11:11:37 AM

It would be preferable to me if most abortions occurred in the first 8 weeks, or not long after that. I'm not saying it "should be limited", I think women should be able to make that choice based on the circumstances of their situation.

7/28/2014 11:20:10 AM

why not firing squad? messy but works / instant.

lethal injection is fucking up way too much lately.

gas chamber was pretty terrible.

electric chair was too intricate / fucked up pretty often.

hanging? like firing squad but more easily fucked up.

seems like the biggest strikes against firing squad are "the anticipation of being shot" but wouldnt anticipation be a consideration for all of these? also the responsibility of death falling on the shooters, hence some of them would have blanks and others real rounds. i think it would be easy to tell if you had a real round though from the recoil.

who does the shooting? random prison employees or specialized shooters designated as executors?

7/28/2014 11:30:57 AM

firing squads are one of the more error-prone methods. I read a thing a while back where they found people on the squad would aim high intentionally, because no one wanted to be the "one" to commit the murder. And since not all rifles have a real bullet, this resulted in many errors.

Lethal injection should be the most "humane" based on current societal views, but this isn't tenable if the Free Market™ won't allow the drugs to be used this way.

7/28/2014 10:15:55 PM

Inert gas suffocation is actually the most theoretically pain free method.

7/28/2014 10:25:09 PM

i think i'd choose firing squad if it were me who was on death row.

7/28/2014 11:17:24 PM

Quote :

"The report documents executions in 22 countries in 2013, a rise on the previous year when executions were recorded in 21 countries worldwide. The countries with the highest number of executions were China, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, USA and Somalia."

Pretty great fucking company we keep.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2014/mar/27/death-penalty-statistics-2013-by-country

7/28/2014 11:27:03 PM

Quote :

"I understand that the brother-in-law was upset, but advocating death by Drano seems pretty extreme."

from a rational, policy driven point of view, yes, of course...

but if it was my family member as the victim, I would be advocating death by hammer drill and acetylene torch. Not as policy-just as what I would want to mete out to that motherfucker.

7/29/2014 12:56:55 AM

As would most normal people. I'm going to put that as a point in the "no capital punishment" column solely for the fact that we probably shouldn't be setting policy on primate response.

7/29/2014 10:22:54 AM

It's been mentioned, but it seems like it would be easy, cheap and painless to OD someone on heroine or morphine.

7/29/2014 10:36:24 AM

It appears that these guys spent 30 years on Death row for a rape and murder that they didn't commit. THe guys were sentenced when they were 20 and 16 years old.

http://www.wral.com/man-who-spent-30-years-on-death-row-freed-from-prison-after-conviction-overturned/13946572/

Quote :

"One of North Carolina's longest-serving death row inmates was freed from prison Wednesday, less than a day after a judge overturned his conviction for the 1983 rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl because of new DNA evidence in the case. Henry McCollum, 50, walked out of Central Prison in Raleigh, hugged his mother and father and thanked God for his release. His half-brother, Leon Brown, 46, also had his conviction in the case overturned on Tuesday. Brown was expected to be freed later Wednesday."

9/3/2014 1:07:49 PM

exactly the reason that I am against capital punishment

9/3/2014 1:10:44 PM

^ the only reason?

9/3/2014 1:12:38 PM

The appeals system worked?

9/3/2014 1:21:07 PM

That sucks for those guys. I hope the state somehow compensates them well.

9/3/2014 1:29:42 PM

40 years for a crime he didn't commit

http://www.wral.com/durham-man-found-innocent-of-1975-granville-county-murder/14088875/

[Edited on October 17, 2014 at 12:19 PM. Reason : ]

10/17/2014 12:18:53 PM

Is torturing an innocent man for ostensibly until he would have otherwise died is somehow more just or merciful than the death penalty? I'm curious where this moral calculus lies.

This argument damns imprisonment in general along with the death penalty. It also suggests that if we can guarantee their guilt then killing them is morally permissible.

This guy wasn't even on death row.

10/17/2014 4:23:46 PM

i think the point was another example of an innocent person being convicted of what could be a capital offense

but yes, if you read 1st person accounts of people who have been on death row for prolonged periods they do say that it is worse because they never know when they are going to be killed but know it's coming. it's understandably pretty damaging psychologically. that's not to say that the torture of prison is okay, but don't minimize how terrible death row is just because prison is also awful.

[Edited on October 17, 2014 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

10/17/2014 4:46:37 PM

Quote :

"who does the shooting? random prison employees or specialized shooters designated as executors?"

In Utah it was police and corrections officers who volunteered and were kept anonymous. Though if I recall there is now a more automated system in place if it should ever be used again, where a series of rifles are all mounted and zeroed in to hit a specific spot. You line up the perp so his heart is in that spot, then someone pushes a button or pulls a cord or what have you.

Quote :

"3. During his ministry, Jesus publicly thwarted an execution."

I guess, but then again, an execution is pretty much at the heart of the New Testament. Not that it matters. Render unto Caesar, and so forth. The Bible is a handbook for leading a moral life according to certain principles, not running a country.

Quote :

"gas chamber was pretty terrible."

Historically, yes, but nitrogen asphyxiation would probably be by far the most painless and peaceful method, if that's your thing. The person just sort of nods off and dies.

Quote :

"seems like the biggest strikes against firing squad are "the anticipation of being shot""

No, I think the main concerns with firing squad are:

1) Room for error. Sometimes even with a row of guys, the person doesn't die right away, which is why historically some military firing squad executions included a "coup de grace" by an officer who would come along and put a pistol to the head of convict's head afterwards.
2) Violence. Even though the outcome is the same, a firing squad is perceived as more violent, as well it might; there are a lot of loud noises and blood.
3) Psychological damage to the executioners. People don't like up-close-and-personal killing, even when they think the person deserved it, and after a while it started to make them a little bonkers. Making the comparison won't help my pro-death-penalty case, but one of the reasons the nazis moved to gas chambers was that shooting bunches of people was causing a lot of strain in the units previously charged with extermination.

Quote :

"Pretty great fucking company we keep."

Your list leaves off Japan and India, two prominent, important, democratic countries that still use the death penalty but happen not to have in 2013. Brazil, Peru, and Chile -- three countries with solid development and political freedom indicators -- still have the death penalty, albeit only under extraordinary circumstances.

The "Look what the cool kids are doing" argument doesn't really hold much water, though. "France speaks the same language as Chad, Togo, Niger, Mali, Congo, and the Central African Republic. Pretty great company they keep."

Quote :

"i think the point was another example of an innocent person being convicted of what could be a capital offense"

I see a lot more examples of "people who could have been wrongfully executed but weren't" than I see of "people who are wrongly executed."

10/20/2014 9:44:15 AM

Quote :

"I see a lot more examples of "people who could have been wrongfully executed but weren't" than I see of "people who are wrongly executed.""

Innocence Project-type groups are overwhelmed trying to save people who are still alive, most people don't spend a lot of resources exonerating people who have already been killed. The cases where someone has already been killed are usually due to new evidence that was tied to another case, in general killing someone is a pretty good way to ensure there are no new appeals or investigation.

[Edited on October 20, 2014 at 10:34 AM. Reason : you're smart enough that this should be obvious]

10/20/2014 10:33:53 AM

Quote :

"The cases where someone has already been killed are usually due to new evidence that was tied to another case"

Then these are the ones you're going to want to harp on, because otherwise it looks like you're yelling, "Oh the horror, the outrage, the system worked!"

10/20/2014 10:36:12 AM

you think imprisoning someone for 40 years is the system workign? you understand how few cases make it to the innocence inquiry commission?

10/20/2014 10:42:32 AM

Quote :

"you think imprisoning someone for 40 years is the system workign?"

We're not talking about imprisoning someone for 40 years. The system being discussed is the one in which an innocent man wasn't wrongly executed. Make another thread if you want to harp on the inequity of the US Justice System.

Quote :

"you understand how few cases make it to the innocence inquiry commission?"

Do you? Without Googling it, what's the number or ratio?

10/20/2014 11:40:35 AM

Quote :

"I see a lot more examples of "people who could have been wrongfully executed but weren't" than I see of "people who are wrongly executed.""

Wow, do you really not see the flaw in this thinking?

10/20/2014 11:53:16 AM

In the context of "here is a data point to support ending the death penalty" I see his point.

10/20/2014 12:47:15 PM

the very conservative number is that 4% of people sentenced to the death penalty are innocent, the actual exoneration rate is 1.5%

(i didn't need to google that)

10/20/2014 12:54:56 PM