Quote :

"If the election was held next week I would agree with you but I have a feeling when push comes to shove a lot more of those saying they won't vote for Trump will change their minds come November. Either way, going to be one interesting election."

Yeah that's one thing I'm thinking, even when seeing the polling I posted. November is still a ways away.

Quote :

"You think Cruz/Rubio supporters will vote for Hillary? I don't think so."

I think a lot of those folks may vote 3rd party or just not vote. I don't think Hillary will win over any Cruz or Rubio supporters....but I'm not sold on Trump being able to win over all of them either.

3/16/2016 8:16:51 AM

Quote :

"I have a feeling when push comes to shove a lot more of those saying they won't vote for Trump will change their minds come November."

I feel the same about Democrats saying they won't vote for Clinton.

3/16/2016 8:50:45 AM

Meh, there's more people afraid of Trump being president than voters that hate/distrust Hillary.

My friend had the right comparison. Picking between Trump and Clinton is like asking would you rather have your junk slammed in your driver's side car door, or passenger side?

It's going to suck either way.

3/16/2016 8:55:21 AM

Quote :

"I feel the same about Democrats saying they won't vote for Clinton."

Most of them are kidding themselves, as some have already flip-flopped on that here, and there's still 8 months to go for the others to come around. The same will happen on the right for Drumpf if he wins, but to a lesser degree...they're already pretty factious bunch, plus it's Trump.

3/16/2016 8:59:09 AM

i'll vote for neither of those two scumbags

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 9:02 AM. Reason : Ross Perot '16]

3/16/2016 9:02:09 AM

chinga la 2016 election. ain't gonna vote for no damn president the way this shit is going.

3/16/2016 9:22:44 AM

IIRC 71% of Democratic primary voters say they'd be happy to support either Hillary or Bernie. The number is much lower for Republicans 49 to 53%. I'd post a link, but they block 538 here. The title of the article is "Republicans Kind of Hate all of their choices"

3/16/2016 10:06:56 AM

The biggest factor that would lead me to guess Trump would win over Hillary is the voter turnout during these primaries. Republicans are experiencing record turnouts and Democrats are experiencing much lower turnout. As much as people like to talk about winning the independent vote or millennial vote, getting the base to get off their asses and go vote is what really will win it.

3/16/2016 10:11:53 AM

Here's ^^ the link http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republican-voters-kind-of-hate-all-their-choices/

Quote :

"The exit polls have asked Republican voters in seven states — here’s Tennessee, for example — whether they’d be satisfied if each of Cruz, Rubio and Trump won the nomination. Remember, these are actual voters — voters who gave Trump a win in six of the seven states where the exit poll asked this question — and not some hypothetical universe of “likely voters.” On average, just 49 percent of these actual Republican voters said they’d be satisfied with Trump. The numbers for the other two candidates were better, but not by much: 53 percent of voters said they’d be satisfied with Rubio, and 51 percent with Cruz."

^Purely speculation on my part...but I think some of the lower Dem turnout in the primaries might change in Nov if they know they are voting against Trump.

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 10:30 AM. Reason : f]

3/16/2016 10:29:26 AM

Quote :

"you got some hard numbers on that?"

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/unauthorized-immigrant-totals-rise-in-7-states-fall-in-14/

Quote :

"Even ONE person coming across the border and staying here is a problem. There are laws, they are not enforced, no one really seems to care."

There are dozens if not hundreds of laws in this country that exist and are not enforced because they are outdated and ridiculous. But that's neither here nor there. Even if we accept your assertion that "even one person" is a problem, which I don't, you can't possibly think that destroying relations with Mexico and building an enormous, expensive wall would be a proportionate response to "one person."

Quote :

"why won't you enforce the laws? Why not beef up security? Why not deport?"

There are a lot of reasons. Partly because rounding up women and children like animals and forcing them out of the country seems shitty to a lot of people. Also because deporting 11 million illegal immigrants (aside from being a logistical impossibility) would cost the government more money than letting them stay, to say nothing of the grievous harm that would be inflicted on the economy.

Quote :

"Or do you have better insight on it?"

Yes. Although, given what "insight" you've offered, that is hardly difficult.

Quote :

"Trump might not have all the answers, no candidate does. However, he isn't afraid to speak to the elephant in the room."

It is obviously, manifestly not the elephant in the room. It is not even an elephant in the room. Illegal immigration is diminishing on its own, and it was never really a problem to begin with.

3/16/2016 11:03:17 AM

The republicans better rethink their position to not accept Obamas nomination for Supreme Court judge. If trump becomes president he will probably try to nominate Judge Joe Brown or Simon Cowell

3/16/2016 11:16:13 AM

The bigger danger is that they don't confirm the centrist, 63-year-old nominee Obama put forward today and Hillary comes in and nominates a 40-something liberal with the Dems in control of the Senate.

3/16/2016 12:44:05 PM

^^ I'd be okay with either of those.

3/16/2016 12:45:29 PM

Grumpy,

So in some states illegal immigrant population went down, some went up, and some stayed the same. Not really a big decline, or really even a decline at all.

Yes, there are thousands of laws that are not enforced for a variety of reasons. However, not enforcing the border and making sure all people coming into this country are documented and become positive members of society is not an outdated or ridiculous idea. It could be done, through a combination of ways, if anyone really wanted to. It is painfully obvious, however, that the politicians are being bought and look the other way, or even force local governments to actively not enforce certain laws. How will saying to Mexico, tell your people that we will only accept them through legal, straightforward means, will destroy our relationship with them? It won't. And why would we want to work with a country (besides the cheap labor, which is pathetic on our part) that actively finds ways to skirt our laws? Yes, even one person coming across illegally is a problem, and should be dealt with. What if there was only one murder in the country per year? Do you let that person walk because it isn't that big of a deal?

Name one reason why deporting all illegal aliens is wrong? Is all punishment of crimes wrong? Without using your heart, use your brain. Who said anything about rounding them up like animals? Don't put words in my mouth. THEY BROKE THE LAW. Right in front of our faces. Do you know how much of a burden one illegal immigrant who uses our hospitals and other public services puts on the tax system vs. putting them on a Greyhound bus and sending them back? I'd wager a $50 air conditioned bus ticket would be cheaper, and then you are done. Feel free to come back the honest, legal way, like so many people do every year. What harm would that put on the economy? So what there aren't people to cut your grass or pick strawberries or paint your siding. There are plenty of people that are citizens who need jobs. And the whole they WON'T do it, yes they will, when the gov't checks and free cell phones stop showing up. All these issues are tied together.

Never a problem to begin with? Says who? Burden on law enforcement, police, firemen, and local govt in general. What if the local taxpayers didn't have to pay for free hospital visits and overtime for police officers. I think the tax payer would like that. Not to mention, they broke the law and spit in the face of every law abiding citizen. And the killings, and the drunk driving, and the sending of millions of dollars back to Mexico, not to be taxed.

3/16/2016 1:21:14 PM

Not to mention a lot of people are frustrated with the GOP for the fact that they have become obstructionists and not much else. They can beat their chest as much as they want about all the shit they've stopped Obama from doing, but no one really gives a shit about that anymore. They want to see a GOP that does what it says it will do and make movement on conservative issues. All it took was for Trump to come in touting himself as a ball buster who will get shit done and almost half their constituency throws support behind him.

The GOP is going right back to their old playbook with this supreme court nominee and they are just pushing themselves closer to a solid split in the party. If they keep playing this game I think we'll find ourselves in a 3 part system within the next few years.

3/16/2016 1:25:51 PM

Quote :

"Do you know how much of a burden one illegal immigrant who uses our hospitals and other public services puts on the tax system vs. putting them on a Greyhound bus and sending them back? I'd wager a $50 air conditioned bus ticket would be cheaper, and then you are done."

you can't be serious

3/16/2016 1:26:04 PM

Kudos on the Obama phone drop.

3/16/2016 1:41:31 PM

Quote :

"How can you say that you don't mind paying more taxes, but in the same sentence, point out that our govt' is ripe with inefficiencies? How can you be ok giving the government one more penny when they have proven time and time again that the money is wasted? "

Because I like a lot of the things my taxes do pay for. While I wish this country could cut down on some of the bloat associated with transportation / infrastructure projects and military operation, I still want those things to exist.

3/16/2016 1:44:02 PM

Didn't mention Obama. Again, seems that you read and see what you want to see.

I am serious. When someone is detained for breaking the law (driving without license, etc) and it can be determined that they are here illegally, why put them in prison (a burden) or let them go back home?

3/16/2016 1:46:54 PM

^^ my view aligns with that

^ cmon man, we aren't stupid. I remember the uproar a few years ago over the black woman and her Obama phone. Mentioning free cell phones is such a dogwhistle

3/16/2016 1:48:53 PM

Quote :

"Because I like a lot of the things my taxes do pay for. While I wish this country could cut down on some of the bloat associated with transportation / infrastructure projects and military operation, I still want those things to exist."

where did I mention paying NO taxes? Of course taxes are necessary. Why would you want to allow the gov't to take MORE before the bloat and corruption is taken care of?

3/16/2016 1:49:05 PM

Is this guy for real?

3/16/2016 1:51:35 PM

Quote :

"cmon man, we aren't stupid. I remember the uproar a few years ago over the black woman and her Obama phone. Mentioning free cell phones is such a dogwhistle"

Obama didn't start the free phone program, and he wasn't the first to give out free stuff for votes. I'm not blaming Obama. he is a product of the system, and we (well not me) allowed it to happen by voting for him twice.

That quote thing wasn't hard to figure it.

3/16/2016 1:52:13 PM

Quote :

"Is this guy for real?"

Yep.

3/16/2016 1:52:51 PM

Quote :

"Is this guy for real?"

Happens every presidential election, people with uninformed opinions come out of the wood work and start spouting their nonsense... i guess this is the reality of democracy though. We have to accept and figure out how to deal with this very sizable chunk of the electorate.

I know GrumpyGOP isn't employed now, so maybe he'll take the time to address all the gibberish

3/16/2016 2:10:39 PM

Uninformed? Quite the contrary.

Enlighten me. I have no problem learning something.

I'm not really for Trump, but a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Hillary, so I won't do that.

Sad that it has come to this.

3/16/2016 2:33:40 PM

Quote :

"but a vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Hillary, so I won't do that."

how do you figure?

3/16/2016 2:36:52 PM

just to be clear, I do not agree with any of these people.

Not even sure if they are serious.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/if-trump-is-not-elected-then#.rjYx0GVwJ

3/16/2016 2:51:03 PM

Quote :

"Why would you want to allow the gov't to take MORE before the bloat and corruption is taken care of?"

because it might go towards something useful, like High-speed rail projects or important scientific research projects like CERN or ITER.

3/16/2016 3:21:07 PM

Quote :

"Name one reason why deporting all illegal aliens is wrong?"

I think most people argue that it's impractical and probably impossible...not that it's "wrong"

3/16/2016 3:21:55 PM

Quote :

"Name one reason why deporting all illegal aliens is wrong?"

It's not inherently wrong, it's just a bad idea, with no practical benefit.

3/16/2016 3:32:07 PM

LOL...
Trump Voters’ Aversion To Foreign-Sounding Names Cost Him Delegates
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-voters-aversion-to-foreign-sounding-names-cost-him-delegates/?ex_cid=538fb

3/16/2016 3:55:37 PM

Quote :

"I think most people argue that it's impractical and probably impossible...not that it's "wrong""

Ok, maybe not all, but a few is a start. All the ones in jail and the ones that have a record and we know where they live. Just because a task is hard, we should shy away from it?

Quote :

"It's not inherently wrong, it's just a bad idea, with no practical benefit."

Benefit of them staying here? Only encourages more.

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 4:19 PM. Reason : asd]

3/16/2016 4:18:16 PM

Quote :

"Benefit of them staying here? Only encourages more. "

Humans will always migrate for better opportunity, we've been doing it for a hundred thousand years. This is literally the reason America was formed. Immigrants aren't coming here for greed or hatred, they're coming here for better opportunities. As Grumpygop has already very clearly demonstrated, illegal immigration from Mexico has been stagnant or negative over the years, wall would serve more to stop people from leaving at this point. It's other illegal immigration that you should be worried about, and Trumps stupid ideas will literally do nothing about it.

if you want to stop illegal immigrants from coming here, have severe penalties for employers hiring them don't use bad reasoning or outright lies to paint immigrants As nefarious people. This is what makes you look racist. If you don't want immigrants, the capital owners paying them to work here are the nefarious bad guy. Trump and people like him are the cause of illegal immigration.

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/16/2016 4:22:46 PM

There is no way to count illegals. Estimates are based upon layers of questionable assumptions.

3/16/2016 5:25:48 PM

^^How come liberals fail to make a distinction between "Not wanting Illegal Immigrants" and "Not wanting immigrants"?

Immigration the way our ancestors came over is A-OK with me, as they were following the laws of the time. Skirting the laws and sneaking over rather than going about it the proper way is not.



[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 5:39 PM. Reason : ?]

3/16/2016 5:38:13 PM

^ that's a fine opinion, but is not really helpful is it?

Those people are here, they're usually working, often have kids in school, many of them grew up here, their employers depend on them, etc., etc..

Seems like the easy solution that results in the maximum benefit for Americans is a path to legality for any illegal immigrant who is otherwise productive. What's wrong with this?

3/16/2016 5:43:18 PM

Quote :

"Seems like the easy solution that results in the maximum benefit for Americans is a path to legality for any illegal immigrant who is otherwise productive. What's wrong with this? "

Right. It's also worth pointing out that you can be in favor of 1) easier path to citizenship for productive, employed, otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrants and 2) better border security. Just seems like a lot of the folks who are gung ho about building a wall and shipping all the illegals away think that's the only way to solve the problem. Sure, if we built a gigantic wall and shipped as many current illegal immigrants away, we would "solve" the problem of illegal immigrants existing within our borders. Not only does that seem highly impractical, if not impossible...it also doesn't take into account ramifications for the industries (agriculture, construction come to mind immediately) that rely on that labor.

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 6:02 PM. Reason : f]

3/16/2016 5:58:54 PM

^ right, but that's not the subtext behind Trumps rhetoric of callings Mexicans rapists or murders (especially when illegal immigration is growing most quickly with Asians), saying muslims should be banned or "Islam hates us".

Literally any of the other candidates have the same or better policy than Trump on immigration, without most of the hate and bigotry that underlies Trump's statements.

3/16/2016 6:04:31 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/busted-pbs-features-trump-volunteer-sporting-white-supremacist-tattoos/

COOL TIMES, GUYS

3/16/2016 6:43:50 PM

And before people post it, Trump can't physically control who supports him and volunteers... but the cognitive dissonance to think his rhetoric doesn't speak to truly awful people on the fringes of society is crazy to me.

3/16/2016 6:48:33 PM

Quote :

"Seems like the easy solution that results in the maximum benefit for Americans is a path to legality for any illegal immigrant who is otherwise productive. What's wrong with this?"

stop illegal immigration then work on a path to citizenship for the law breakers. I don't care what ethnicity they are.

Quote :

"Those people are here, they're usually working, often have kids in school, many of them grew up here, their employers depend on them, etc., etc.."

And? We track down criminals that have been on the run for decades and arrest them, regardless of what they are doing now, working, having kids, even being positive members of society.

No difference.

I'm not in favor of a 'wall' Too easy to defeat. Deport all illegals that are caught, regardless of where they came from. People are using their heart. Can't do that. The law is black and white. So what a restaurant owner has to find a few replacement workers, that happens all day every day. It will be ok.

3/16/2016 10:02:04 PM

Quote :

"So what a restaurant owner has to find a few replacement workers, that happens all day every day. It will be ok. "

On a small scale, sure...but we aren't talking about a small scale. On a national scale take a few million people out of the workforce and send them outta the country, and then it's not "just hire some replacement workers."

3/16/2016 10:45:43 PM

Obummer's probably got a few million of his Kenyan brothers who can take over the jobs.

3/16/2016 10:48:50 PM

Someone comes to this country illegally, works a shitty job, pays sales tax, gas tax, tolls, etc and we're upset????

We should be happy the population isn't shrinking. I bet the number of illegal Chinese people in the country currently is mind blowing. Seems like a sweet thing to get your panties in a bunch about tho.

3/16/2016 11:26:46 PM

Quote :

"I don't care what ethnicity they are."

says the guy who complained about having to press 1 for English...

3/16/2016 11:48:05 PM

In fairness, it would piss off the people here legally, who work a shitty job, pay sales tax, gas tax, tolls, etc and income tax. I've tried feel good stories to get out of speeding tickets.

[Edited on March 16, 2016 at 11:56 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/16/2016 11:55:16 PM

Quote :

"The bigger danger is that they don't confirm the centrist, 63-year-old nominee Obama put forward today and Hillary comes in and nominates a 40-something liberal with the Dems in control of the Senate."

Won't happen. If the Republicans lose in November, they will be falling all over themselves to confirm the guy before inauguration day.

Quote :

" Not really a big decline, or really even a decline at all."

It's close to a million people. That is a decline. That is a big decline.

The Trump plan to deport 11+ million illegals would take decades and cost the government hundreds of billions of dollars, according to a right-leaning think tank's study. The same paper estimates a real GDP drop of $1.7 trillion and a decline in economic growth of 5-6%.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/the-conservative-case-against-enforcing-immigration-laws/387004/

Quote :

" THEY BROKE THE LAW. Right in front of our faces."

Rosa Parks broke the law. Thousands of American slaveowners didn't break the law. "The law" is not perfect, and in fact is often seriously fucked up. Infinitely easier than a crusade to enforce this pointless law would be to get rid of it. It would also be cheaper and more beneficial to America and the world.

3/17/2016 1:24:41 AM

^^ where are these pissed off legal immigrants? I've heard about them but havent seen them.

Cubans!????!!!

3/17/2016 7:18:36 AM

Quote :

"where are these pissed off legal immigrants? I've heard about them but havent seen them. "

every once in a while you'll hear from them. Usually too busy working to try and feed their kids and not taking gov't support.

Quote :

" Rosa Parks broke the law. Thousands of American slaveowners didn't break the law. "The law" is not perfect, and in fact is often seriously fucked up. Infinitely easier than a crusade to enforce this pointless law would be to get rid of it. It would also be cheaper and more beneficial to America and the world."

So no border/border security at all? Come and go as you please?

Quote :

"says the guy who complained about having to press 1 for English..."

And? If you are here illegally, yes, I don't care what ethnicity you are.

Quote :

"We should be happy the population isn't shrinking. I bet the number of illegal Chinese people in the country currently is mind blowing. Seems like a sweet thing to get your panties in a bunch about tho."

Why should I be happy that the population isn't shrinking? I'd much rather have the population shrink than the people who can't get a job in their own country sneaking into ours. Come in the legal way, with a verifiable skill that is needed, come on in. Less crowded EVERYTHING would be a welcome change.

Quote :

"The Trump plan to deport 11+ million illegals would take decades and cost the government hundreds of billions of dollars, according to a right-leaning think tank's study. The same paper estimates a real GDP drop of $1.7 trillion and a decline in economic growth of 5-6%."

All speculation. That figure is extremely excessive and is biased. First of all, it wouldn't take any extra manpower. We aren't gonna hire an entire new police force to go door to door. Once you are caught committing another crime, they determine you have no US identity, you are held (like any criminal is currently) and then put on a bus or plane. Cheaper than 3 hots and a cot for a year or more. Slow and steady. Not overnight.

No one really knows how that would affect GDP and economic growth. However, it is disheartening to think that our economic growth and security is tied to the illegal alien population. maybe once the illegals are gone, there will be many job openings. This is an opportunity to get some people off the gov't teet. Win-win in my book. And maybe lower taxes! Everyone I think would like less money taken out of their paycheck.

3/17/2016 8:18:15 AM