what are you, a judge? speculation, objection sustained!

12/22/2008 9:25:09 PM

We're 7-2 this year, with both losses coming to good teams, thanks in part to star players hitting unbelievable shots in the clutch...does anyone remember where we were after 9 games LAST year?

actually we were 6-3, but still

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2008 9:28:09 PM

but we lost to new orleans, ecu, and by 23 to michigan state.

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:34 PM. Reason : last year]

12/22/2008 9:33:23 PM

^^fail

This last game was one we could've come away with if we had better management of our players. Basically

Quote :

"Same shit different year."

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:33 PM. Reason : lkj]

12/22/2008 9:33:30 PM

actually it's totally new shit, different year.

but whatever, you're having fun making asinine statements.

12/22/2008 9:34:12 PM

Basically, we aren't going to be getting better until we upgrade at PG. Unfortunately we have two non-ACC caliber PGs stuck on our roster... and as John Calipari says "We can't trade them."

What a waste of Fells and Costner for 4 years... too bad, they are talented players.

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:35 PM. Reason : x]

12/22/2008 9:35:09 PM

which pg on our roster are you giving the nod to?

12/22/2008 9:36:28 PM

Mays has shown some early promise but he's still rough around the edges

Javi is...better than he was last year

Farnold is pretty serviceable although PG is such an important position, like NyM said, you need a star PG

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM. Reason : how about John Wall?]

12/22/2008 9:39:16 PM

I don't know... honestly, it's shameful that we have 2 PGs on our roster that caliber. Degand still isn't 100% and his lateral quickness was never THAT great before... and Javi is honestly one of the worst shooters I've ever seen at this level and isn't a great passer.

I honestly think I a dozen or more guys on TWW could outshoot him in a 3 pt contest...

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:40 PM. Reason : mays is more of an undersized 2 than a true 1... ceiling is probably a borderline high-major starter]

12/22/2008 9:39:22 PM

The sub-play is sometimes suspect

Smith should get more pt

Too many turnovers (18, after only having 9 last game (i know, to lipscomb).

And dammit, Fells needs to somehow be motivated (he did go 5-9, 12 pts, and had a nice dunk, but it hardly seemed like he was in for 31 minutes)

Overall, we're playing decent ball. A much different team than last year. But that is the second important game we "shoulda won".

I think most of it comes down to our lack of backcourt talent.

12/22/2008 9:43:44 PM

if farnold were serviceable, we would've won this game. he's not. he wasn't before he got hurt, and he's not now.

we needed bodies until lowe could really get out and recruit a real live acc caliber pg. he's done that (hopefully), but right now we're stuck w/ the bodies.

Quote :

"I think most know all of it comes down to our lack of backcourt talent."

there we go.

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:44 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2008 9:43:53 PM

^NO.

does our backcourt suck? yes.

will we better with good guards? much better.

should we still have won this game even with our crappy backcourt? YES.

sidney's coaching was atrocious tonight.

12/22/2008 9:49:06 PM

you're such a fucking tool.

hey i think that player sucks, he's not a starter, get him the fuck out of the game. COACHING SO BAD.

12/22/2008 9:51:56 PM

Right now, mays looks like he is clearly better.

Also right now, javi looks worse than he was at the end of last year. I thought he was going to project better this year. He still may, but he shouldnt be our main guy right now. There are times when he gets into a zone where he can make the right pass, steal the ball a lot, or even make a 3. But those times are not frequent enough to justify the start.

Degand is just bad. I realize he is coming off injury, but he is just bad. He shouldnt look at scared as he does. He is trying to do shit he is not ready to do. He just needs to calm down and he would be 100% more effective.

Both degand and javi are defensive liabilities physically. There is not fuck all that anyone can do to fix this. He was able to keep up with his guy better than degand or javi were.

Mays has the potential of being as good as atsur and the physical potential to be better. He looks like russell wilson out there in terms of calmness.

[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:58 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2008 9:57:17 PM

^^wait...you think it was a good idea to take all of our starters out (when fatigue clearly was not a factor at all) and lose our lead and let marquette build momentum at a crucial time in the second half?


[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 9:58 PM. Reason : ]

12/22/2008 9:57:31 PM

Farnold played like crap and I dont see him getting much better. He plays scared almost all of the time. I dont get why he is scared to run the ball up the court. I dont even think he has the ability to bring it up when there is someone covering, he always has to pass it out. He is so fast that even if he had just a teency bit of skill handling the ball he should have no trouble getting past these guys, but he wont.

Then once were in our offense, it seems like he has no clue what to do. He might have tried to drive twice tonight, if that, I only remember once specifically though. And a lot of sloppy ass passes.

12/22/2008 10:11:57 PM

We need some backcourt. We have a bunch of great current or future off-the-bench guys there. LoBrown will be a HUGE asset. Hopefully Woods will be lights-outs like he has been in hs. And Harrow has been tearing-it-up as a hs junior pg. Wall?

12/22/2008 10:52:00 PM

^^^^ call me out all you want to cock sucker, the point is that this whole "credibility watch" is fucking stupid when we are 7-2, with two of our losses coming against quality opponents.

but for fucking arguments sake, lets fire sidney lowe, then who the fuck do you think wants to come here and have people like YOU call for a coach's head everytime we lose.

Yeah, sidney isnt a GREAT coach, but there arent 4 GREAT coaches in the conference. Get off your fucking high horse

We know the PG play isnt great, we have known that for the past 200 days.




[Edited on December 22, 2008 at 11:10 PM. Reason : .]

12/22/2008 10:55:38 PM

lunatic fringe

12/22/2008 11:58:38 PM

^^ just to be devil's advocate, you are talking about being 7-2 with our 2 loses coming against quality opponents.

But out of those 7 wins, how many of them were quality? NONE. High Point, Winthrop, UNC-G, Lipscomb?

Christ Almighty, we have played 2 good teams and lost both of them. The galling part is that we are playing them close and could have won both of them. From my eyes watching the games we lost, it sure as hell looked like a breakdown in the coaching. However, I am not a basketball coach, so I can't say.

What I can say though is that you shouldn't brag about 7-2 when all 7 wins are against the most cupcake of cupcake teams.

12/23/2008 1:21:27 AM

Quote :

"erice85 is just one of those people who doesn't know basketball. Can't really reason with that."

12/23/2008 1:24:54 AM

Quote :

"Christ Almighty, we have played 2 good teams and lost both of them. "

(in the last minute)

i think mays is showing promise. hopefully gonzo or degand can step up to be a good reserve for mays.

also, i think sidney should have put in mays in the last couple minutes even though he had 4 fouls. i think he figured we might go into OT. costner and mccauley were sitting on the sidelines for probably a full minute before their last substitution waiting for a stoppage of play. the only reason they didn't go in earlier, iirc is that smith was shooting free throws and i assume he was going to sub out smith for mccauley.

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 1:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/23/2008 1:40:16 AM

His subs are killer. Yes Ferguson is playing a lot, buy who should play over him? He is a good threat to score and make 3s. They abused him tonight though on defense....he just couldn't keep up. CJ Williams is a decent defender but contributes no offense at all.

FYI all 3 PGs on the team were recruited here by Sidney, so he cannot use the excuse that they suck. Mays has promise. I say we start him from here out and let Gonzalez and Degand walk. They aren't going to amount to much, at least Mays has the POTENTIAL to be good.

12/23/2008 2:49:31 AM

^^^ that all you got?

Let me hear some logic then. Besides the substitution patterns, give it to me.

He didnt miss both free throws for McCauley or cause McCauley to turn it over twice. Mays would have probably have been just as ineffective since he is much shorter than Degand on that last play. I guess it was also his fault that Fells was a non-factor for most of the game. Some of you put too much emphasis on the coaching and not enough on the fact that we just don't have great players who can consistently get the job done.

If the man hasn't recruited the type of players we need by year 5, throw his ass to the wolves for all I care, but this senseless posting everytime we lose is sickening.


If you follow my posts, I don't claim Sidney Lowe is a great, or even good coach, but assholes like you irritate me.

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 4:50 AM. Reason : .]

12/23/2008 4:49:10 AM

OMG... finally! Some damn sense in here.

Quote :

"Some of you put too much emphasis on the coaching and not enough on the fact that we just don't have great players who can consistently get the job done."

12/23/2008 5:42:49 AM

Maybe we don't have great players, but we do have good players. We also have terrible players.

So why the hell do we:

1. Play the terrible players so damn much?

2. Play them all at the same time?

12/23/2008 8:00:52 AM

Quote :

"Some of you put too much emphasis on the coaching and not enough on the fact that we just don't have great players who can consistently get the job done."

....who our coach recruited. It's kind of funny that our best players are the ones that our last coach recruited. And don't give me that seniority bull-shit...they'd be our best players if they were only freshmen and sophomores too.

If you aren't extremely worried about the current state of our program, you need to take the rose-colored glasses off.

12/23/2008 8:20:04 AM

We build another 7 pt lead in the 2nd half, and Costner and McCauley go to the bench for a REDICULOUS amount of time, and don't come back in until Marquette is ahead. Why take Costner out when he is playing like that? He hadn't missed a shot at that point (if he ever did) and McCauley's size could have added presence inside. Thats how we would build a lead, win a game against Marquette....with out big guys. Costner and McCauley should have played almost the entire game if I'm coach, rotating Smith in for one every couple minutes. And Horner should get <3 mimutes of playing time per game....he doesn't produce anthing

12/23/2008 8:26:31 AM

Quote :

"....who our coach recruited. It's kind of funny that our best players are the ones that our last coach recruited. And don't give me that seniority bull-shit...they'd be our best players if they were only freshmen and sophomores too. If you aren't extremely worried about the current state of our program, you need to take the rose-colored glasses off."

The thing that is really scary to me is that we are basing the future of our program on a one and done who may or may not even end up coming here. Even if we DO land Wall, it's just a band-aid. I suppose Mays can play point (though lets be honest, he wasn't a top high-elite recruit) and Lorenzo Brown MIGHT be able to as I think he is more of a combo guard, but neither is ideal...

I just don't see how we can possibly be better next year than we are this year losing Fells, McCauley and Costner. That is why Tracy Smith NEEDS to get more minutes this year... Howell and Brown are solid high-elite recruits but they aren't the high levels that will come in and dominate as freshman. They are 3-4 year players...

Really, we have to be fair to Lowe and give him at least 3 more years to really evaluate him... and that is really scary if he isn't the right guy...

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 11:05 AM. Reason : x]

12/23/2008 11:04:31 AM

Quote :

"REDICULOUS"

12/23/2008 11:06:29 AM

Quote :

"Really, we have to be fair to Lowe and give him at least 3 more years to really evaluate him... and that is really scary if he isn't the right guy..."

meh, it's been done before.

12/23/2008 11:10:49 AM

Three more years after this one? I think the powers-to-be need to get on the horn with potential candidates now as a preemptive measure, assuming the worst this season and next. Coaches that have had GREAT success in the last 5 years have taken over programs that were run into the ground for far too long with no benefit to the program.

I am a PAC 10 homer. I think of UCLA, USC, and ASU off the top of my head. Look at those programs 5 years ago. Pure shit. Right where State is heading.

12/23/2008 11:12:58 AM

Quote :

"meh, it's been done before."

100% completely different circumstances, but we won't get in to that...

12/23/2008 11:17:04 AM

Should he be fired if these are his records for his first four years
Overall ACC
year4 24-10 7-7
year3 11-17 3-11
year2 10-17 4-10
year1 17-13 6-8

If you said yes you just fired Coach K at duke. You have to give these things time Just CHILL.

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 11:22 AM. Reason : fixed]

12/23/2008 11:19:34 AM

everyone just needs to calm down and let's come back to this in a year.

12/23/2008 11:19:39 AM

In a year? I think Sid better hope we evaluate him more on this year.

How on earth are we going to be better losing our three best players? We better land both Wall and Favors if we are going to be better... I honestly don't even think Wall puts us as a solid lock for the NCAAT, and he is much more important than Favors...

^^ I'm not advocating firing him, but you have to realize it's a different basketball world now. Success comes much quicker now and is demanded much quicker. It's a $$$ sport more than ever driven by increased media exposure and more highly developed underclassman than ever before...

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 11:23 AM. Reason : x]

12/23/2008 11:21:32 AM

^^^ that is really relevant right now.

^^Very true. But is worse comes to worst I hope there is a little better plan than last time. There are plenty of successful assistants in the NCAA now that would love a three year chance to help right a sinking ship in 2010.

^As I mentioned earlier and you probably know, I am a UCLA homer. They have 5 Freshman this year that would start on 95% of the NCAA teams... One of the best classes in the last ten years AND two first rounders starting in the backcourt. They are struggling this year, just like State will next year, no matter who they get.



[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason : g]

12/23/2008 11:23:17 AM

^ i agree entirely about the planning part. lee fowler can't sit around and do nothing and hope that everything goes just fine. i don't follow your comparision of state to ucla though.

^^ yeah, in a year. i think lorenzo brown will do wonders. seriously.

12/23/2008 11:27:29 AM

We're in a rebuilding stage. It will take time to get players that play Sid's style of basketball.

12/23/2008 11:32:07 AM

^^All I was comparing was that UCLA lost it's three best players to the draft last year (just like State will lose their three best).... then they pulled in four 5*'s and a 4*, they have Collison and Shipp in the backcourt, and they will not be a better team than they were last year. It's an unfounded comparison, but even if State gets Wall and Favors, they likely won't be better next year than this year.

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 11:33 AM. Reason : f]

12/23/2008 11:33:24 AM

^since when was it harder to rebuild in basketball than football?

Quote :

"Really, we have to be fair to Lowe and give him at least 3 more years to really evaluate him... and that is really scary if he isn't the right guy..."

Sweet Jesus Bryan. I mostly see what you're saying, but 6 years?! I have a hard time swallowing that. After 3 years you need to see SOME improvement (I'm withholding judgement till the end of the season).

12/23/2008 11:41:07 AM

Quote :

"We're in a rebuilding stage. It will take time to get players that play Sid's style of basketball."

It just looks like we're "building" a fucking shitty basketball team.

Think about this team without Fells, Costner, and McCauley next year. Fucking scary.

Even as a kid, when Les was our coach...I still looked forward to our basketball team every year. It pains me to say that over the past few years I've become like a Carolina football fan in relation to basketball. This is almost football off-season to me.

12/23/2008 11:52:04 AM

jbrick83 hit the nail on the head with his last two posts.

What kind of style does Sidney play? His style is slower and much more ineffective than Herb's was. We can't even score 80 against a crap team. And it's not because we aren't deep, he plays 11 guys regularly, so no reason for fatigue.

The Coach K and Herb comparisons to their first 3 years are not relevant at all. Duke and NCSU were not great programs before they took over. We had been to 5 straight NCAAs before Lowe, he wasn't starting over.

12/23/2008 12:08:41 PM

Quote :

"And it's not because we aren't deep, he plays 11 guys regularly, so no reason for fatigue. "

I don't see how anyone is defending this coaching strategy of Lowe, regardless of if you think he's a good coach or not. The only fucking time this is necessary is if you're blowing somebody out by like 40+ which is something we don't have to worry about. 11 guys playing regularly is stupid.

12/23/2008 12:12:05 PM

^Oh I agree. I am one of the main ones that has been bashing him for that. It's stupid how much playing time we give to people who wouldn't see the court on other ACC teams.

12/23/2008 12:23:24 PM

lets wait until we get deep into conference play and see if our team is less fatigued than some other teams before we start questioning the december rotation

i love you guys though...always as pessimistic as humanly possible...lol state fans

12/23/2008 12:29:58 PM

dbl post

[Edited on December 23, 2008 at 12:30 PM. Reason : .]

12/23/2008 12:30:20 PM

Quote :

"Maybe we don't have great players, but we do have good players. We also have terrible players. So why the hell do we: 1. Play the terrible players so damn much? 2. Play them all at the same time?"

12/23/2008 12:30:42 PM

lets play our best 5 players 40 minutes per game, that will work out well for us

12/23/2008 12:31:27 PM

^^^ i agree

if we suck it up in conference play, throw the big bastard under the bus. But I, for one, am not ready to jump off the ledge despite this loss.

Although I do agree with most posters in the thread that we have several flaws (both coaching & players)

12/23/2008 12:32:17 PM