5Obama!

[Edited on December 28, 2009 at 1:58 PM. Reason : w]

12/28/2009 1:58:23 PM

Right. People normally think of the great depression when you bring up depression, so they think we aren't in a depression unless there are bread lines, etc. Of course, the politicians will never say we're in a depression. That would shatter the illusion of prosperity that they've worked so hard to maintain and is so vital to their careers. If people were to suddenly realize the magnitude of this economic crisis, there would be chaos. People would be dumping their dollars for more secure assets, runs on the bank, crime rates through the roof, et cetera. There would be political fallout, too. Incumbents would get thrown out en masse due to public outrage, especially when it became understood that the government is powerless to fix the crisis. Of course, they've been successful in blaming depressions on the "free market" before, and they're already trying to do that now. I'm sure the masses could once again be convinced that the only solution is more government stimulus and regulation, and I'm sure Michael Moore could come out with a movie that blames Wal-Mart for the rapidly declining purchasing power of the dollar. That's why it's necessary to educate people. They'll believe whatever they're fed by the government and the media, often to their own detriment.

12/28/2009 2:15:46 PM

Yup, and they tend to compress all the events of the Great Depression into one monolithic block. As if the 1929 crash happened and suddenly everyone was in a bread line the next day.

We'll get there though, we're pretty aggressively pursuing the policies that took us there in the 30s.

12/28/2009 3:15:01 PM

Quote :

"Her latest interview on the Today show again reveals a total obtuseness. Yes, as was obvious from the original clip, it was clear she was referring to what happened after the incident occurred and the system does seem to have worked from then on. But before that? This was a massive failure by DHS, and you will notice she takes not a smidgen of personal responsibility for it. Does she not realize how sick we are of government officials responding to obvious mistakes, errors and failures by bragging about what they did get right? She is responsible for homeland security and scores of human beings nearly died because of her failure and survived solely because of luck and courage and the incompetence of the religious extremist. This attitude was what enraged people about the Bush administration. If Obama wants to show he is not like that, he needs to fire Napolitano now, and explain why there are no excuses in his administration for failing to perform a core government function like ensuring that airline security is as fool-proof as possible. The rest of us have had to go through hell for years in airports only to see this happen. If she won't resign, fire her. "

i enjoy Andrew Sullivan's takes, and i tend to agree with him on this one.

12/28/2009 10:40:15 PM

Wasn't it Napolitano who coined the phrase "Man-Made Disaster" to replace "Terrorist Attack"?

Let's see...No luggage, One-way ticket paid with cash, No passport, his father warned our embassy that he was unstable, he was already on the British no-fly list. Yeah I'd say the system failed miserably.

Hillary has some 'splaining to do as well. How this terrorist got a visa her embassy.

And it would be so refreshing if Pres. Obama would simply acknowledge the fact that his precious central gov't failed and it took the initiative of private citizens to win the day.

12/29/2009 12:50:01 AM

^ Concerning your last statement, the Obama administration has trouble accepting blame for anything. And I don't think you'll see them emphasizing the "initiative of private citizens" in taking control of the situation.

Obama didn't even answer questions after his statement about the incident. So much for transparency.

We nearly had an airliner blown out of the sky over U.S. soil on Christmas Day. And all we're getting out of the Obama administration is finger-pointing, no bathroom breaks or blankets on laps an hour before landing, and a poor guy just suffering from food poisoning being hauled off the shitter and put up against the wall--Sweet Jesus, the Obama crowd looks like the Apple Dumpling Gang.

And Obama will run the Dick Bomber or whatever they're calling him through the U.S. criminal justice system. We should've taken that fucker down to Gitmo and subjected him to enhanced interrogation until we were satisfied with the intelligence gathered--too late now.



I hope it blew his fucking balls off.

12/29/2009 4:23:47 AM

Quote :

"Let's see...No luggage, One-way ticket paid with cash, No passport, his father warned our embassy that he was unstable, he was already on the British no-fly list. Yeah I'd say the system failed miserably. Hillary has some 'splaining to do as well. How this terrorist got a visa her embassy. "

any suspicious activity that occurred at the airports is not a failure of the administration. it's a failure of the security personnel at those airports. also, i don't think he was on the british no fly list, but he was barred from entering the country. i'm not sure if there is a difference or not. but questioning why he was not on the US no-fly list is certainly a legitimate question.

he got his visa in 2007 or 2008 i believe. you know, not Hillary's embassy. however, why he was able to keep it after his father came forward is also a legitimate question.

Quote :

"And it would be so refreshing if Pres. Obama would simply acknowledge the fact that his precious central gov't failed and it took the initiative of private citizens to win the day."

well, Nepolitano did acknowledge that the system failed in preventing this guy from getting on the plane. (after taking some heat for her ambiguous statement the day prior) and Obama did give credit to the citizens on the plane...

Quote :

"Thanks to the quick and heroic actions of passengers and crew, the suspect was immediately subdued, the fire was put out, and the plane landed safely. The suspect is now in custody and has been charged with attempting to destroy an aircraft."

perhaps pick up a newspaper or search around the internets before talking out of your ass next time?


[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 8:28 AM. Reason : .]

12/29/2009 8:15:38 AM

Quote :

"any suspicious activity that occurred at the airports is not a failure of the administration. it's a failure of the security personnel at those airports."

Who do those security personnel work for, and who is responsible for security on flights originating overseas?

[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 9:45 AM. Reason : ]

12/29/2009 9:39:13 AM

security personnel in Lagos and Amsterdam work for Obama?

that's news to me.

admittedly i have no idea how security on flights originating overseas works. i know that i've never been stopped or checked by TSA personnel on my flights back from Heathrow though.

[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

12/29/2009 9:57:25 AM

They don't work for the US government.

That was the point of the question.

12/29/2009 9:59:46 AM

gotcha. i thought you were being snarky.

12/29/2009 10:01:51 AM

No, though it does seem to me that this latest incident is another coordination/communication issue, and not some fundamental process shortcoming or lack of appropriate tools/measures.

The pieces were there, but no one picked them up.

Just like Fort Hood.

Just like 9/11.

12/29/2009 10:18:05 AM

Quote :

"well, Nepolitano did acknowledge that the system failed..."

I know what she stated (after back-pedaling from her "atta boy Brownie-like statement).

I want OBAMA to acknowledge that it was private citizens that helped saved that plane. (along with a faulty detonator)

And Obama the Great Communicator's statement was rather limp and uninspiring...

Quote :

""Those who would slaughter innocent men, women and children must know that the United States will do more than simply strengthen our defences,... We will continue to use every element of our national power to disrupt, to dismantle and to defeat the violent extremists who threaten us..."

12/29/2009 10:42:36 AM

Quote :

"I want OBAMA to acknowledge that it was private citizens that helped saved that plane. (along with a faulty detonator)"

he did

12/29/2009 10:59:11 AM

^^

are you fucking stupid? That sounds exactly like every generic "war on terror" speech bush and cheney made in the past decade

every one that you championed and inspiring.

[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 11:51 AM. Reason : ]

12/29/2009 11:51:28 AM

It seems to me our money would be better spent firing all the TSA guys, going back to pre 9-11 airport security and putting a sky marshall and a bomb sniffing dog on every flight. It's clear the only thing the screeners at the airport are going to catch are the guys with dynamite literally hanging out of their pockets, so there's no need for these private searches, and shoe inspections, and liquid restrictions. And I know that some people are allergic to dogs and having them on a 4 hour flight could be miserable, but 4 hours doped up on benadryl has got to be better than the inevitable full body cavity searches we'll get after the next guy sticks some C4 up his rectum.

And yes, I know that the problem with good security is that it's tough to know if it's really working and detering criminals or if they're just not attacking you, but clearly when they are attacking, our security isn't working.

12/29/2009 1:27:10 PM

Key Security Agencies Lack Permanent Leaders
Key US security agencies lack permanent leaders as administration focuses on air safety
WASHINGTON December 29, 2009

Quote :

"Two federal agencies charged with keeping potential terrorists off airplanes and out of the country have been without their top leaders for nearly a year. It took the Obama administration more than eight months to nominate anyone to lead the Transportation Security Administration and the Customs and Border Protection agency. The attempted Christmas Day terrorist attack on a Detroit-bound airliner has prompted a review of U.S. security policies. The acting heads of those agencies — both created in response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — will be at the forefront of these discussions. Bogged down with health care reform, the Senate has yet to set a date to hold hearings for the Customs position. And Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., has placed a hold on the president's choice to head the TSA over the senator's concern that the new leader would let TSA screeners join a labor union. This has some Democrats blaming politics for the vacancy. Former U.S. attorney Alan Bersin is nominated to run CBP, and former FBI agent and police detective Erroll Southers is the president's pick for TSA. The current acting commissioner at CBP is planning to retire next month."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=9439157

12/29/2009 9:52:10 PM

Quote :

"And Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., has placed a hold on the president's choice to head the TSA over the senator's concern that the new leader would let TSA screeners join a labor union."

meaning the health care debate and it's effect on the confirmation process is, basically, immaterial.

Well done Sen. DeMint.

But if we're really honest and refuse to play politics and try to shift the blame around, we'd all recognize that having a headman at the TSA wouldn't have prevented this anyway. But where's the fun in being intellectually honest when you can score cheap political points on the Internet?

[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 10:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/29/2009 10:04:03 PM

bold

Quote :

"article"

http://

12/29/2009 10:48:11 PM

Quote :

"are you fucking stupid? That sounds exactly like every generic "war on terror" speech bush and cheney made in the past decade every one that you championed and inspiring."

You got the wrong guy. I'm no Bush fan at all.

12/29/2009 11:01:36 PM

^^^

Obama blames 'systemic failure' in U.S. security for allowing terrorism suspect on airliner
Official: U.S. agencies had information to avert jet attack, failed to share
December 30, 2009

Quote :

"WASHINGTON - -- U.S intelligence agencies had enough 'bits and pieces' of information to thwart the attempted Christmas Day airplane bombing if they had properly analyzed and shared it, a senior administration official said Tuesday."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-obama-airline-1229-1230dec30,0,5308404.story

So who's in charge of the system?

12/30/2009 7:19:25 AM

Is that a rhetorical question?

12/30/2009 8:22:34 AM

Quote :

"A CIA official prepared a report on Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab after a meeting with the suspect's father in November, who shared information about his son's extremist views, CNN reported Tuesday. The report was sent to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, but it sat there for five weeks and was not disseminated, a "reliable source" said."

way to go, Obama!!1

12/30/2009 9:14:41 AM

How is that in any way the fault of the President?

12/30/2009 9:16:19 AM

I thought the multiple exclemation points and the 1 would indicate sarcasm. Oh well

12/30/2009 9:19:31 AM

Even if no one is in charge of the system right now, it should at least be able to function as it was when the last person was in charge. The mark of a good leader is how long he could be dead at his desk before someone would notice. If something as simple as making sure a crazy person with a bomb doesn't get on a plane requires a decision by a head honcho, then the system is broken. TSA has been broken pretty much since day 1.

12/30/2009 9:20:18 AM

I agree with you, I think.

12/30/2009 9:20:49 AM

Cant really blame it on the prez. He cant micro manage every part of the fed.

The CIA is a large bueracracy and is bound to miss stuff. If you wanted to fix them, one of the first things you'd need to do is completely overhaul their processing procedures to make them entirely electronic and available to all government agencies. The way it should have happened is:

CIA guy prepares report on computer, gets put into CIA database. On the airline side all passengers are logged in a flight list which is available to the CIA. If someone is added to the CIA database, and they meet certain requirements, they get run against existing flight lists. Likewise if someone is added to a flight list, they should be run against the CIA database to see if they get flagged anywhere. In each case an alert gets thrown which gets sent to whoever at the CIA and at the same time gets sent to the airline to have them prevent the person from boarding/getting a ticket.

That wont ever happen, though, because it means less data entry workers, which means smaller beuracracy, which means someone's office fiefdom will shrink. Once any beuracracy has a guaranteed funding mechanism (especially the fed) they dont give it up.

As for the TSA, they're just mall cops. Completely fucking worthless.

12/30/2009 9:37:08 AM

Quote :

"Even if no one is in charge of the system right now, it should at least be able to function as it was when the last person was in charge. The mark of a good leader is how long he could be dead at his desk before someone would notice. If something as simple as making sure a crazy person with a bomb doesn't get on a plane requires a decision by a head honcho, then the system is broken. TSA has been broken pretty much since day 1. "

My bet is that it IS functioning how it has been.

Quote :

"Cant really blame it on the prez. He cant micro manage every part of the fed. "

I don’t know if this is the case… he obviously can’t be personally to blamed, and doesn’t micromanage the CIA, but as this is his administration, the blame is his. And it looks really bad that the TSA didn’t have a leader for so long too.

When you have 3 million people flying daily though, the terrorist are going to try crazy things… just look at that one in SA who had a bomb in his rectum. That bomb would have been powerful enough on an airplane to breach the skin, which would be disastrous in flight.

I think whoever suggested earlier that the best thing we can do is have an air marshall aboard every flight is right. The security screenings have been shown countless times to be worthless, and probably act as more of a placebo-like deterrent than a real screening. The only other option is to be draconian with searches, but i can’t see too many people supporting that.


[Edited on December 30, 2009 at 9:50 AM. Reason : ]

12/30/2009 9:42:57 AM

We could implement a requirement that all travellers entering the US must be subjected to RapiScan machines. Had Farud walked through one of those, the bomb would absolutely have been identified.

12/30/2009 10:30:40 AM

We could strip search every person who attempts to fly on an airplane.

That would stop all the bombs.

12/30/2009 10:38:21 AM

Look I'm willing to give up all of my freedom in order to feel safe. I cry to sleep at night because I'm so scared living in the most prosperous and safe country in the world.

*drives volvo to work in the suburbs*

12/30/2009 10:39:15 AM

Quote :

"How is that in any way the fault of the President?"

Quote :

"Cant really blame it on the prez. He cant micro manage every part of the fed."

Seems the same folks who were all over Bush during Katrina are now giving Obama a pass.

Quote :

"We could strip search every person who attempts to fly on an airplane. "

Why not put cameras in airline bathrooms? Why not make everyone strip down and sit naked in their seats?
..or we could get rid of these idiotic Politically correct system of random checks and start smart profiling.

12/30/2009 11:04:29 AM

Quote :

"start smart profiling."

Code for "search every sand nigger"

12/30/2009 11:11:53 AM

Quote :

"Seems the same folks who were all over Bush during Katrina are now giving Obama a pass. "

haha are you kidding?

The 2 situations aren’t remotely comparable.

12/30/2009 12:41:52 PM

The hardest thing about preventative measures is that they're almost impossible to know if they're working or not.

You can only tell when they fail.

12/30/2009 12:56:45 PM

no ones blaming obama for this happening, no one blames bush for katrina happening.

They can for sure blame bush for what happened after katrina, and they could blame obama if nothing happens after the underwear bomber.

12/30/2009 1:00:04 PM

"the system worked"

12/30/2009 1:28:46 PM

Quote :

"I agree with you, I think."

Quote :

"I think whoever suggested earlier that the best thing we can do is have an air marshall aboard every flight is right. The security screenings have been shown countless times to be worthless, and probably act as more of a placebo-like deterrent than a real screening."

This has got to be a sign of the apocalypse right?

Quote :

"My bet is that it IS functioning how it has been."

Absolutely, I should have been more clear, but I was mostly responding to the implications by Hooksaw that since no one is in charge and Obama took so long appointing someone that he must have some part in all this. Realistically the only blame Obama has here is that his first act as president wasn't scrapping the entire TSA / airline security system and putting something workable in its place.

Quote :

"Seems the same folks who were all over Bush during Katrina are now giving Obama a pass. "

Well, realistically, Obama has no real blame here. Bush didn't either for Katrina.

12/30/2009 1:33:40 PM

Quote :

""start smart profiling." Code for "search every sand nigger" "

except this guy wasn’t a sand nigger, he was the regular kind.

12/30/2009 1:37:51 PM

Yeah that's kind of my point.

12/30/2009 1:49:43 PM

Quote :

""the system worked""

Nice job taking a quote out of context you retard.

12/30/2009 1:50:13 PM

One time I went through with a metal fork in my backpack that had been in there forever. The TSA guy found it and was like, "yea you probably shouldn't have that" And i was like "hah, you can have my fork if you want" and he laughed and chucked it back in my bag.

My dad has flown multiple times with his leatherman.

TSA is a joke. Get rid of them. Use air marshalls if you have to have something. Fix the CIA bueracracy so potential threats get where they need to go.

12/30/2009 1:54:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r97fCN0gOHQ

Here is the video with the complete context.

And I flew on saturday. We were told not to congregate near the bathroom.

12/30/2009 2:04:46 PM

Quote :

"Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

12/30/2009 2:08:14 PM

Thanks for bolding the funny part. Its fing ridiculous thing to say.

Granted, not to the extreme people are running with it. But still a dumb thing to say.

[Edited on December 30, 2009 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

12/30/2009 2:12:27 PM

RapiScan machines are far more practical and reliable than Air Marshalls and dogs.

I'm not advocating "Lets freak out and do whatever it takes air travel 100% safe". I'm just saying, if the government wants to institute drastic measures, this is a practical solution. The voting attitude of the public is "Protect my person, not my rights". Air travel is a privelege, not a right. If you don't like someone looking at your gonads, you don't need to fly.

Personally, I don't care what they do.

12/30/2009 2:31:12 PM

what rapiscan system are you talking about?

12/30/2009 2:34:27 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapiscan_Systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray

Calls for Full-Body Screening Grow

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/dec2009/db20091229_592922.htm

12/30/2009 4:06:03 PM

Penis --------->


Testicles ------->

12/30/2009 4:10:51 PM