.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2007 11:07:14 AM

Jeez. Hiro should just go back to when Sylar was a baby terminator style and take care of things.

5/1/2007 11:16:10 AM

Seriously,
I don't understand why future hiro didn't just kill sylar in the beginning, instead of going to organize all of this through the meeting on the subway, etc.

Of course then the TV show wouldn't have existed.

5/1/2007 11:18:05 AM

what is all the confusion about Peter's scar?

In the future he DOESN'T have Claire's ability so how the fuck would he have been able to heal himself?

wtf are you people babbling on about

5/1/2007 11:24:31 AM

^ In the future he doesn't have her ability? So he loses abilities now?

5/1/2007 11:31:32 AM

originally Peter doesn't save Claire..that's why everyone thought she was dead in the future

that's why Bennett was so surprised when Hiro and Ando told him Claire was alive and NOBODY else knew

it's not the same timeline...time travel is confusing tho

5/1/2007 11:34:22 AM

Originally he didn't.

but it's obvious this isn't the "original" timeline where sylar killed her.

5/1/2007 11:36:01 AM

true, it HAS been slightly altered but I still don't think Peter has Claire's ability



[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 11:37:55 AM

*shrug* maybe not

i'm just going on the asusmption that it's 5 years from when Hiro left and is still in the timeline where Peter saved claire and absorbed the power.

5/1/2007 11:38:32 AM

that's all well and good, but we didn't see Sylar finally kill Claire until last night "in the future" after she is found by Parkman and taken to the Petrelli mansion in Manhattan.

which is why i said on the previous page

Quote :

"Bennett hid Claire after Sylar killed the OTHER cheerleader--remember when we were asking questions about the other cheerleader that Sylar DID kill? Peter still blows up Nathan protects Peter and blames Sylar--bringing on the "if we saved the cheerleader we would've saved the world" mentality"

Hiro's whole "save the cheerleader" mentality is based on Bennett's lie and hiding Claire.

^i can see that as well. which "future" did we just see--the future where the cheerleader was saved, a future where she "wasn't", or a different future entirely.
damn this time travel

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 11:39:04 AM

she was still alive in that timeline.

so he had to have saved her.

5/1/2007 11:39:29 AM

^^ Great point

Quote :

"Hiro's whole "save the cheerleader" mentality is based on Bennett's lie and hiding Claire."

But that does bring up other questions. Sylar still went after Claire then and she was only saved by Peter....who would have never been there unless future Hiro told him to come. It could be either way, but there is definitely a paradox in one of the theories.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 11:43 AM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 11:40:44 AM

maybe he lost it or forgot how to use it when he got the scar...he does have to "remember how the people make him feel" for it to work

if Claire gets shipped off to Paris for a bit...5 years down the road he could forget that

there's a lot of "what ifs" that could play into it, but I don't think he currently(in the future) can use the ability


and as someone else said...damn this time travel


[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 11:40:51 AM

Quote :

"and as someone else said...damn this time travel "

i agree

5/1/2007 11:46:03 AM

I always groan when time travel is used as a plot device. It creates the situation where the entire drama can be avoided with one or a few simple actions - which the writers never pursue because there would be no story. For example, Hiro could kill Linderman, Sylar (as a child), or Mohinder's dad (or just warn Mohinder's dad about Sylar).

I think the Saving-the-Cheerleader-save-the-world bit is genuine. Hiro says that he stabbed Sylar before he exploded, but that Sylar regenerated, so we know that at least in the original timeline, Sylar was in fact about to explode and that Hiro had a genuine reason to save Claire. But, maybe we're too trusting of Hiro's interpretation, maybe he actually stabbed Peter who was made to look like Sylar via Candace's ability via Sylar (i'm thinking the illusion ability is projectable, but not sure). This may be reaching too far though.

Regarding Peter's scar, I'd say it's either because he chooses not to heal it or it was somehow inflicted by Hiro's sword, which seems to have special potency. Of course, that might support the idea that Hiro actually attacked Peter instead of Sylar. Then again, since both Peter and Hiro lived, I'm sure they would have rectified the misunderstanding, and known that Sylar was still on the loose.

5/1/2007 12:09:13 PM

guys read the thread

Quote :

"Here's my understanding of events: (1) "originally", Sylar was the bomb, but he had also killed Claire, so when Hiro tried to kill him, he regenerated (and Hiro presumably got the fuck out of dodge) (2) after some time Hiro realizes that the crucial detail is the fact that Sylar has Claire's ability, so he travels to the "present" day to tell Peter to save the cheerleader (3) The cheerleader was saved, but by some turn of events which we haven't yet seen, Peter ends up being the bomb, although Sylar still acquired Ted's power (and at some point Nathan's, Candace's, and DL's). Also, the "present" Hiro hasn't yet gone back to do the actual attempt to kill Sylar, so the future Sylar is alive and well. Since apparently Peter and Sylar are interchangeable as the bomb, something else has to enter the picture to clean things up, since eliminating either Peter or Sylar or Claire alone isn't enough. "

thanks PatTime

5/1/2007 12:11:32 PM

OMG YOU'RE RIGHT

that clears up everything

5/1/2007 12:15:45 PM

another point to make your heads spin:


In the episode, future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar, but Sylar didn't die because he had killed Claire and taken her ability to regenerate.

If Five Years Gone takes place in the actual future where Claire was saved, then Sylar doesn't have the power of regeneration and should have been killed when Hiro stabbed him.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 12:27:06 PM

we should have a out of the or face just for this thread

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:31 PM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 12:30:56 PM

^^ the younger hiro was in the future, ie he hasn't gone back to kill sylar yet


in fact that's posted two above yours

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:35 PM. Reason : duh]

5/1/2007 12:34:23 PM

touche

now we just have to see how the whole Peter/Sylar being the bomb thing pans out

If Peter is in fact supposed to be the bomb than killing Sylar will do Hiro and the future no good (unless Sylar gets another healing ability..Linderman? but we don't know if he can heal himself or just others)

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:44 PM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 12:42:03 PM

^ welcome to page 50

5/1/2007 12:47:45 PM

okay next time I'm going to start discussing right after the show airs

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason : ]

5/1/2007 12:51:40 PM

anyone have a pic of the last 9th wonder comic with Hiro stabbing what looks to be Sylar? just wanted to see if it could be of Hiro stabbing someone else

5/1/2007 12:53:53 PM

Again, I think the time travel stuff is messy, cause it's not clear whether the tail is wagging the dog.

After consideration, since there is a future version of Hiro, that suggests that present day Hiro successfully traveled back to his own time and presumably did all the things he would have done in 5 years time, such as perhaps stabbing Sylar. The fact that Sylar in the future is still alive suggests that Hiro never managed to stab Sylar, even though he was to successfully travel back to his own time.

For my original argument to be valid that present day Hiro simply hadn't gone back to stab Sylar yet and that it's on his todo list, it seems that there shouldn't be a future Hiro at all, because the "present day" Hiro would have been mia for 5 years when he time traveled. The fact that a future Hiro is there, suggests that he did make it to back to his time and did all the things he was to do.

I'm not really sure what to make of it. I think it's a matter of second guessing how convoluted the writers are willing to take it. They could in their minds be making up "rules" for time travel, such as allowing changes in the Hiro-stabbing-Sylar loop to take effect on the subsequent iteration and not all at once.

5/1/2007 12:58:37 PM

speaking of Hiro, future Hiro dying by Parkman in the future sucked

5/1/2007 1:04:33 PM

^^ I think that the "string theory" comic might help you out. the future hiro is from timeline A (when Sylar killed Claire), he had just gotten back from talking to Peter in the NY subway when he ran into the Hiro we all know and love in the future of timeline B, and now young Hiro is going back to the present of timeline C

hold on if that were true then Peter wouldn't have seen Hiro for five years so nevermind



[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 1:10 PM. Reason : h]

5/1/2007 1:08:18 PM

***SPOILER***


Dialogue exerpt from the next episode:

HIRO: What happen ?
MOHINDER: Somebody set up us the bomb.
SYLAR: How are you gentlemen !!
PETER: All your base are belong to us.
SYLAR: You are on the way to destruction.
HIRO: What you say !!
PETER: You have no chance to survive make your time.
SYLER, PETER, NATHAN, MOHINDER, HIRO, LINDERMAN, MICAH: Ha Ha Ha Ha ......

5/1/2007 1:11:48 PM

Seems like Nathan Petrelli could very well be the most important character in all of this.

5/1/2007 1:42:27 PM

i'm wondering if sylar is going to get his shapeshifting powers next week. I could see lindermans lackies using candice to impersonate sylars mother to set up a trap. hiro somehow fucks it up when he attacks sylar and sylar ends up getting away but not without first getting candice's power

5/1/2007 1:49:06 PM

^ I like it

5/1/2007 2:35:00 PM

I think they're doing time travel the way Bill and Ted (bad comparison) did it. The whole "I have to remember to put a trashcan here later" and having the trashcan now thing. Nothing happens in the past (Hiro's present) until future Hiro wills it in the future.

5/1/2007 3:36:33 PM

BEST EPISODE EVER

5/1/2007 6:04:02 PM

There is no way Parkman didn't know Sylar was Nathan in that timeline.

5/1/2007 6:36:05 PM

^I think that's hard to believe as well (that parkman didn't know nathan was really sylar) given their interaction over five years, but I think we are intended to believe that he truly didn't know.

Right before Sylar and Peter faced off, Parkman looked genuinely surprised when he saw Nathan use other abilities. Also, I think it's already a stretch that Parkman would be so jaded as to become "Darth" Parkman under Nathan's tutelage/leadership, but to willingly work for Sylar - who he so aggressively hunted - would be going to far.

Contrary to some others, I really like Parkman's character; he genuinely means well, uses his powers intelligently and usually pulls through in clutch situations. His only real setback has been that he couldn't bring himself to admit he had dislexia when taking the police exam and he never found a convenient way to explain where he acquired information (telepathically). He really wasn't the fuckup that everyone thought he was. Having said that, I think the writers have shit on him a few times. Like, why did he steal a diamond several episodes back (a truly stupid thing to do) and how could he have gone from a nice guy soon-to-be father to a cold blooded killing dirty laundry handing lackey of a politician?

5/1/2007 7:06:48 PM

uh, not given their interaction over 5 years. given his ability to read minds. there's no way sylar could seriously avoid thinking "woo i'm sylar" for 5 years while posing as nathan.

5/1/2007 7:28:07 PM

^ Sylar would have come into contact with the Haitian and could block out Parkman's ability.

Also - Parkman says how the explosion in New York ruined his family. He no longer has his wife or his child.

5/1/2007 8:19:41 PM

Quote :

"^ Sylar would have come into contact with the Haitian and could block out Parkman's ability."

Technically, Sylar would have to eat the Hatian's brains. We have seen that only Peter can copy powers based on proximity alone.


Anyway, it is IMPOSSIBLE to talk about time travel and avoid paradoxes.

5/1/2007 8:26:48 PM

You're right, oversight on my part.

5/1/2007 8:36:39 PM

Quote :

"uh, not given their interaction over 5 years. given his ability to read minds. there's no way sylar could seriously avoid thinking "woo i'm sylar" for 5 years while posing as nathan."

actually i would think that whether or not he could read Sylar's mind would depend on how Candice's powers worked. It's obvious up to now that her illusions are more than just visual. When this illusion is created the person she imitates sounds and acts just like the person she is supposed to be. My guess is that her power goes deep into the mind of her "victim" to the point where even Parkman might not even be able to tell whats really going on.

At the same time, I have to wonder why he didn't steal Parkman's power after being in close proximity for so long. Either Sylar hadn't assumed the role of Nathan for very long when the events of the episode took place, or the two had some kind of deal worked out. You'd think that the ability to read minds would be a power Sylar would want. Then again, the writers probably didn't put too much thought in the plot behind the last episode beyond explaining why Hiro went back, what happens after the bomb goes off, and setting things up for the shows back in the present. I have a feeling that the "future" will change a lot over the course of this show so why bother with the details every time right?

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 9:02 PM. Reason : .]

5/1/2007 8:59:08 PM

it's not clear when Syler killed Nathan either. How long has he assumed Nathan's form? Was it soon after the explosion (which i think is relatively soon after "present day")

5/1/2007 9:11:06 PM

Does the Haitian know Sylar is posing as Nathan?

He blocks everybody else's powers, so he must be able to see through the illusion.

5/2/2007 1:42:47 AM

he can choose whose powers he blocks i think, because he was in the room when parkman was reading young hiro's mind. if he thinks thats really nathan as president, he'd have no reason to block him. you'd think though that authorities would start finding these bodies with their heads sawed off and maybe have an inkling of common sense, unless sylar took those other powers before the bomb

5/2/2007 8:25:24 AM

Few questions for yall
1) If the Haitian blocks all powers, then when Sylar was around, wouldn't he change back to his normal self?
2) If Peter only gains powers from proximity, wouldn't that mean he would have the scar because he wasn't around Claire at the time? That is typically the only time he heals up. Of course it could be like someone said and he just has to remember what it was like to have the powers.

5/2/2007 8:27:57 AM

Quote :

"Sylar would have come into contact with the Haitian and could block out Parkman's ability."

i think you are confusing peter and sylar's abilities. the haitian was alive in the future so sylar obviously didn't have his ability. sylar also flew, so it's clear that he had killed nathan.

^haitian seems to only block mental-related powers, but it's possible it could be all. either way he has to be consciously doing it. it isn't a passive ability, as far as i can tell. peter gets his powers by coming into contact with the people and then he can use them later by remembering how they make him feel. i don't know why he has the scar. it could be that it came from him blowing up new york. maybe he wasnt able to heal it after that, or maybe he chose not to heal it as a reminder of what he'd done. who knows really.

[Edited on May 2, 2007 at 8:31 AM. Reason : ]

5/2/2007 8:28:12 AM

the way Parkman was talking about the Haitian being taken out when Peter, Hiro and Ando breached the facility, I think it's safe to say he can probably block other powers other than mental. It may be something that was developed or enhanced by him during the 5 year period.

5/2/2007 8:58:26 AM

Ya I am confused why Sylar wouldn't take the Haitain dudes ability. Wouldn't he be awesome if he could block other people's abilities while still using his...unless it blocks his as well.

I still don't understand why Parkman couldn't hear Nathan/Sylar's thoughts?

Mohinder needs to leave the show, he gets fooled by Sylar not only once but twice. He is worthless on this show.

5/2/2007 10:41:48 AM

Peter has the scar because he doesn't have Claire's ability in the alternate future. In that timeline, he never met the "future" Hiro in the subway. So he was never told to "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World.." So he never went to Texas and never tried to save Claire. I thought they made this kinda clear on the show...

The Haitian has to be able to control his power (turn it on/off), since Parkman was reading Hiro's mind when the Haitian was in the room.

Parkman should have been able to read Sylar's thoughts, that is a big hole in the plot, one of many.

5/2/2007 10:54:58 AM

^it's not really a diff. timeline...whatever we've seen happen in the "present" up to the point where Hiro teleports should all transfer to the future we saw

why would Parkman have reason to read the President of the United States mind? He doesn't go around reading everyone's mind unless he has a reason to and if Sylar didn't take over Nathan right away Parkman would still thing it was genuinely him

Quote :

"Few questions for yall 1) If the Haitian blocks all powers, then when Sylar was around, wouldn't he change back to his normal self? 2) If Peter only gains powers from proximity, wouldn't that mean he would have the scar because he wasn't around Claire at the time? That is typically the only time he heals up. Of course it could be like someone said and he just has to remember what it was like to have the powers."

1) possibly, but maybe the Haitian has to actively try and block someone's powers...think about it, everyone else can control their power so it isn't unreasonable to assume the Haitian can too (and if he thought Sylar was Nathan he'd have no reason to block his power)

2) I was under the impression that Peter could use anyone's power he'd met at anytime IF he could remember how they made him feel (it's what he said in one of the eps)...that's why the scar thing is so annoying...the cheerleader was saved, he should have the ability..of course there were 5 years between the present and future so who knows what could happen to be the cause of the scar

[Edited on May 2, 2007 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on May 2, 2007 at 11:01 AM. Reason : ]

5/2/2007 10:57:02 AM

I still don't quite see how Sylar can even be a match for Peter. No matter how strong Sylar is, Peter will always be at least just as strong, plus any additional powers Peter would have from other people. Say for example when they were facing off in the future right before future Hiro got shot. Peter should have been able to read Sylar's mind and be one step ahead of Sylar no matter what he tried to do. Peter could just freeze time, turn invisible and walk up to Sylar and put a nuke in his mouth. And I would expect that at some point in the 5 yrs, Peter was around the Haitan and would be able to supress Sylar's abilities completely.

5/2/2007 12:35:29 PM