Quote :

"During that period of time that the report represents, we had about 97,000 students and about 3,000 of those students were engaged at the most in this activity"

You might want to (discount) double-check that claim, Dean. "At most" is wholly incorrect; even Wainstein, himself, said that the true number is probably well north of 3000 students.

10/30/2014 12:52:09 AM

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZfLl3ZTJ0

10/30/2014 1:16:22 AM

Quote :

"Somebody on PP I think (oh no!) brought up a point that while over 50% of the students in the fake classes were athletes, leaving lots of non-athletes, that lots of the non-athletes were possibly people like cheerleaders, team managers, team volunteers, etc other types of personnel who might have worked in the athletic field while not being technically athletes"

never thought about that...and I guess there's no way to find that information out. But that'd be very interesting to know.

I know the report also said the paper classes were popular among a few fraternities too.

10/30/2014 8:17:20 AM

it was definitely popular among greeks 2004ish, at least among the sororities i knew at the time.

10/30/2014 8:27:22 AM

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24774387/acc-operation-basketball-focused-on-everything-except-basketball

Quote :

"Granted, some might roll their eyes at that statement, and I'm compelled to tell you that I pulled three different ACC coaches aside, offered anonymity and asked if there's any way their players could for years be involved in no-show classes without them knowing. All three, without hesitation, said the only way a head coach at this level wouldn't know is if he went out of his way to not know, point being that Williams' colleagues don't seem to think he's nearly as naive as Williams would like the rest of the world to believe."

10/30/2014 9:58:38 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-sports-ethics-expert-became-embroiled-in-the-unc-fake-class-scandal-2014-10

10/30/2014 10:01:55 AM

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/staffing/columnist-time-for-unc-s-williams-to-take-some-heat.html

10/30/2014 10:03:51 AM

Quote :

"As if it had been delivered by Duke's Cameron Crazies, the evidence screams otherwise. It shouts of a quite organized and subversive plan to undermine all that UNC always has claimed to stand for -- academic integrity above all else."

At least give credit to the right fans!

10/30/2014 10:13:34 AM

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/10/students-argue-wainstein-report-has-racist-undertones

The media is racially biased against AFAM? Nah, more like the University itself buried this scandal in the AFAM department, because it was trying to keep primarily black student-athletes eligible, and what better way to do that then put them in such a nebulous department. Of course a black student is going to do good in a class about themselves, right? Rather than getting upset at the media for targeting the AFAM program, take out your frustrations on the leaders of the department and the University that let this shit begin and then fester in this department. It was obviously targeted and no amount of blaming this on Deborah Crowder for trying to single-handedly help out poor black kids out of the goodness of her heart is going to explain this shit away. You would have been racist to make the comments without proof and by putting it in AFAM, it insulates the rest of the university and the departments that they deem important from the sacrificial lamb.

[Edited on October 30, 2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason : ]

10/30/2014 11:36:50 AM

"let's create a phony department about black people so we can put black people in it because what kind of racist pigs would question it, all so we can be good at sports" - unc

10/30/2014 12:05:56 PM

Ol Roy about to be on 99.9 I'm listening in hopes of a meltdown

10/30/2014 12:20:10 PM

^^^ i totally agree w/ her!

Quote :

"“Why was it so easy for the University and the media to just define the AFAM department as this sight of this despicable injustice?” she said. She said the report should have further investigated the other two departments that were also originally implicated in the scandal and that the report could have included some of the professors’ voices."

10/30/2014 12:20:13 PM

Quote :

""During that period of time that the report represents, we had about 97,000 students and about 3,000 of those students were engaged at the most in this activity""

Yo, dawg, those numbers don't make the scandal look smaller in scale like you think it does, b. It's still a very high percentage of fraudulent degrees for a University to be handing out. I'd step away from that talking point, son.

10/30/2014 12:22:16 PM

10/30/2014 12:28:06 PM

^^think of all the millions of people i didn't murder!

10/30/2014 12:34:33 PM

I mean, are they're basically willing to throw away their prestige and academic reputation to preserve a basketball legacy? Or more specifically, the legacy of Dean Smith? Fuck him. Just tell him nothing happened, it's not like he'll remember it anyway.

If I was a student, I'd be upset about that. If I wanted to throw away my money for a degree with no value, I'd save myself the time and just go to the University of Phoenix.

It's just a bad strategy all around. They're assuming that their esteemed academic reputation can rebound faster than their basketball program, which I have hard time believing to be true. The university should be more concerned with preserving their mission, and less concerned with the athletic department. This is some short-sighted, Corporate America decision making that doesn't make any long term sense, in my opinion. It's time to for the university to tell the athletic department that they need a time-out for a few years, otherwise the tail is going to continue to wag the dog.




[Edited on October 30, 2014 at 1:14 PM. Reason : ]

10/30/2014 1:11:30 PM

if they want academics to fall on the sword to save athletics, then they need to lose their accreditation, simple as that. hell, they should have it revoked anyhow until they fix their shit because BOTH SIDES are at fault here. that's why this punishment needs to be "Old Testament" harsh

10/30/2014 1:53:01 PM

10/30/2014 2:30:40 PM

Quote :

"Omololu Babatunde, one of the organizers of the Real Silent Sam Coalition, said many people misunderstood the demonstration. She said the facts in the report are true, but the way people have targeted the Department of African, African-American and Diaspora Studies is racist. "

That person is just pissed they get harassed at the airport every time.

10/30/2014 2:58:42 PM

Never saw this link posted and it is hilarious (might have missed it):

http://www.statefansnation.com/2014/10/heres-reasons-rest-acc-mad/

Quote :

"So congrats Clemson, you now have your first ACC men’s basketball championship. Virginia you get one too and I’ll throw another Duke’s way (not that they need it). And 2 of them are going to the rafters of the PNC Arena and now belong to NC State (and years of message board arguments are forever changed now that both Sidney Lowe and Herb Sendek have an ACC title). And while we’re at it, take down that national championship banner that wasn’t won on the court and awarded by a bakery, it is dumb."

[Edited on October 30, 2014 at 5:17 PM. Reason : whoops, huge ass picture.]

10/30/2014 5:16:19 PM

^That pic is funny.

But correct me if I'm wrong...that's not how vacating wins works. Even if all UNC wins over the last 18 years were vacated, it doesn't mean the loser of those games is now the winner.

Like, an 8-4 football season would then just be an 0-4 football season. Not 0-12. And not every team that UNC beat is awarded a win.

But I guess that SFN thing was a joke anyways so...

10/30/2014 5:57:54 PM

^ you're correct, that's not how it works.

10/30/2014 6:01:07 PM

Quote :

"if they want academics to fall on the sword to save athletics, then they need to lose their accreditation, simple as that."

one of the conditions for NCAA membership is they have accreditation from one of the six regional accrediting agencies, so if academics took the fall like you said, it'd be a universal death penalty for all their sports teams

10/30/2014 6:02:00 PM

i'm absolutely not above salivating over that. it'd be a disaster for north carolina... but the BOG would have no choice but to embrace us.

10/30/2014 6:09:37 PM

I hope the flag from UNC's flagship for the UNC system comes down along with the banners too

10/30/2014 6:14:20 PM

Rashad McCants was on the 2005 Championship team and he admitted he was in paper classes and he played the entire season, including in the Championship game. That is an ineligible player who played in the deciding game, if Michigan and the Fab Five show us anything, that 2005 Championship should be vacated at the very least.

10/30/2014 7:06:44 PM

Quote :

"Yo, dawg, those numbers don't make the scandal look smaller in scale like you think it does, b. It's still a very high percentage of fraudulent degrees for a University to be handing out. I'd step away from that talking point, son."

And not only that, he is blatantly misrepresenting what the report said. It didn't say "at most 3100 students"; it said "at least 3100 students". But yes, when 3% of your students took fake classes, that's not a good thing.

[Edited on October 30, 2014 at 9:29 PM. Reason : mis]

10/30/2014 9:15:40 PM

only 3100 females were raped on campus during the last 18 years! that's not bad at all!!1

10/30/2014 9:33:05 PM

only 3100 females were raped on campus during the last 18 years! that's not bad at all!!1

10/30/2014 9:33:05 PM

agreed 3100 isn't too bad

10/30/2014 10:18:09 PM

Quote :

"mean, are they're basically willing to throw away their prestige and academic reputation to preserve a basketball legacy? Or more specifically, the legacy of Dean Smith? Fuck him. Just tell him nothing happened, it's not like he'll remember it anyway."

lol

10/31/2014 1:28:31 AM

What does it actually mean if a college has their accreditation removed? I know that would never hold, but what does that threat actually mean?

http://abc11.com/sports/unc-accreditation-under-review/372365/

Quote :

"The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools is once again evaluating the accreditation status of UNC-Chapel Hill."

10/31/2014 8:17:06 AM

IIRC, the biggest effect would be that students going there would not be eligible for federal financial aid. A secondary effect would be that classes there would probably not transfer to other schools. Employers would usually question the legitimacy of a degree from an unaccredited institution (if it was granted while the school was without accreditation), but that likely wouldn't happen for UNC, unless they remained without accreditation for a significant time. Federal and state jobs, though, would probably be forced not to recognize the degrees. That stuff is minor to the financial aid ramifications, though.

10/31/2014 8:29:27 AM

Is it possible for one department or college to lose accreditation?

Although I'm not sure how likely any of that is since, supposedly, this is no longer going on and pretty much everybody that was identified as the main offenders are no longer with the school.

10/31/2014 8:32:52 AM

What really pisses me off about this entire thing is why because of the Wainstein Report is this suddenly real to everyone? Why wasn't this real 3 years ago when SFN and others started leaking info to the N&O? Why did UNC receive a slap on the wrist for football and that was the end of it during the first NCAA investigation? UNC then hires Willingham to do an internal investigation and when she reports her findings the college basically discredits her to the best of their ability. Then for God knows what reason, but thank God, they bring in Wainstein and fuck themselves in the ass worse than they could have possibly imagined. Is this really because of the scale or is it because we have the basketball team now tied in without a doubt? Either way it makes no fucking sense, as these facts were shown before any investigations happened. What was so special about the Wainstein Report and how did this push UNC's PR Bill into the million dollar range? Why did the general public not believe these facts until Wainstein? Where was Al Sharpton and SNL 2 years ago?

What makes me feel a little better is this shit will never go away for UNC in terms of in state rivalry. We better have signs up at games for the next 10 fucking years or more, because nobody in the history of college sports, has every fucked up on this scale before.



[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 8:48 AM. Reason : _]

10/31/2014 8:44:23 AM

If Carolina loses accreditation they could no longer be a member of the NCAA. And any university losing federal financial aid would cripple their admissions.

I'm expecting Carolina to receive Probation.

[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 8:53 AM. Reason : /]

10/31/2014 8:51:59 AM

They're already on probation. And if the NCAA can find any of this going on since they've been on probation they absolutely have to have the hammer dropped on them.

10/31/2014 9:10:42 AM

what exactly needs to happen for a university to get downgraded to a college? Didn't something like that almost happen to Florida State around a decade ago?

10/31/2014 9:19:47 AM

University of North Carolina University College

10/31/2014 9:40:48 AM

Quote :

""Your Carolina degree is as strong and powerful now as it was the day before the Wainstein report and,in fact, if we act with courage and conviction, it's going to be even stronger," said Folt. While they wade through just week one of the Wainstein report aftermath, many agree that the next big wave the university is anticipating is the decision from the NCAA. "

http://abc11.com/education/unc-students-hold-forum-on-wainstein-report/373749/

10/31/2014 9:41:14 AM

^^^a university has multiple colleges, so they would have to close colleges or combine them. downgrading to college is not how this works.

let's not go full packpride

[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 9:42 AM. Reason : .]

10/31/2014 9:42:24 AM

Blackdog, Anson Dorrance (women's soccer, too many to count National titles) and Mike Fox (multiple CWS appearances) are in the document dump that Wainstein provided specifically asking for independent study classes be set up for athletes. In Dorrance's case, he was trying to entice a high school recruit (cardinal sin). Fox even suggests one be set up in the middle of October for Fall semester credit for his player (What the, Huh, How?). They still have jobs. Why, same reason no one (nationally) really picked up on the story until Willingham came went public. I suspect it will take 6 months before the Fox and Dorrance stuff to blow up.





Now, these emails look pretty bad. Are they the smoking gun on these two, I don't know, but it looks bad. Roy makes a whole stink every time he's at a presser about how "I'VE NEVER SELECTED A CLASS FOR ONE OF MY PLAYERS" basically insinuating that doing so is the root of all evil. Here we have two successful coaches in Fox and Dorrance doing just that, trying to influence and select courses for their players. Shady is the best case scenario.

[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 9:58 AM. Reason : .]

10/31/2014 9:50:11 AM

I just watched this and this guy makes me want to puke, we need to get him out, now, or the ACC itself is at risk. Hell, now in hindsight, I think Maryland had the right idea.

http://www.statefansnation.com/2014/10/john-swoffords-presence-hurting-acc/


http://www.statefansnation.com/2014/10/live-charlotte/

Skip to 4 hours and 35 minutes to hear him talk about infractions.

Quote :

"John, you found the UNC report disturbing and troubling and shocking. I'm not getting any kind of sense of what your personal reaction was as the commissioner of this conference? I mean, are you just disgusted by that report, what you found in there, revolted? Seemed like athletes were kind of given a disservice here by people that just wanted to keep them eligible. What were your personal feelings about that report? Well, I'm not going to get into my personal feelings about it a great deal. From a commissioner's standpoint, it's something that, you know, you don't want to see. I think Carolina through this last report has addressed it with a great deal of transparency and thoroughness. Now it's time to-- for that institution, with the NCAA, to bring the NCAA investigation to closure, and then that-- and I think they're on their road to that now. And then with whatever that brings, then move forward, as I said earlier, move forward, make the changes that need to be made, strengthen yourself, set in motion things that will guarantee as much as you possible can, that something like that will never happen again, and, you know, and learn from it. And one of the things about being in a conference, and I think particularly this one, is when there are issues, and fortunately we haven't had a lot of them, so anytime we have a cluster of them, it seems like a lot of them, but when we do, when it's over with at each institution, that institution sits down with the rest of the league and says, here's what happened; here's why it happened, we believe; here's what we learned from it; here's what we've changed. And take this and apply it to your particular situation, and maybe it can be helpful to you. We do that every time there's an NCAA problem of any significance. "

How the fuck is UNC anywhere near closure when they are denying and deflecting all questions, spending close to a million dollars on PR for this and the NCAA hasn't even weighed in? Yea I am sure when all this is said and done UNC is going to sit down and say "here is what we did". Are you fucking serious??

Quote :

"John, in 1982 when you were still athletic director at North Carolina and the NCAA brought down sanctions on Clemson university one year, you advocated that the conference add an additional year or more to Clemson in light of all of the new sanction-- or all of the new allegations against North Carolina, will you advocate more sanctions against the Tarheels? Well, first of all, I didn't advocate in 1982. That was a situation at that point in time where even if I had, I don't think anybody would have listened to me, because I was the rookie in the room. But that was a situation and a time when the conference, through the faculty athletic representatives and the presidents would take a look at every NCAA sanction that came down. Not that-- again, not that there were very many, and decide whether the conference should add to that. We no longer do that in the Atlantic Coast Conference. The presidents decided that that wasn't something they wanted on the books any longer, that they would accept whatever the NCAA sanctions were and would not take those sanctions any further. "

[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 10:33 AM. Reason : _]

10/31/2014 10:22:43 AM

UNC coach Roy Williams: If they fire me, it won’t be because of AFAM probe

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/29/5276373/unc-coach-roy-williams-if-they.html#.VFOcHsnhJe0

Quote :

"Williams on Wednesday at the ACC’s annual basketball media day addressed questions, once again, about how much he knew or should have known about those problem courses in the African- and Afro-American Studies Department. And he addressed a question about his confidence in the university supporting him through the duration of an NCAA investigation. “If they fire me, it’s going to be because I didn’t win games,” said Williams, whose career winning percentage (.792) is the highest among active coaches with at least 20 years’ experience. “It’s not going to be because I for sure knowingly did something unethical. “I don’t move my ball on the green when nobody’s watching.” Williams went on for a short while, making golf analogies, defending his ethics, his character. “So no, I don’t worry one second about my ethics,” he said, “or what can be done there. And the NCAA – I have never knowingly done anything that would even violate an attempt at the rule.”"

[Edited on October 31, 2014 at 10:28 AM. Reason : sorry, [old], from wednesday]

10/31/2014 10:28:04 AM

http://www.wral.com/wainstein-report-continues-to-impact-unc-students/14133244/

10/31/2014 10:29:09 AM

^^That's just patently false

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=2623115

Quote :

"The NCAA report said other boosters gave graduation gifts to outgoing players, a fact that individuals within the athletic department were aware of, including former basketball coach Roy Williams."

10/31/2014 10:37:03 AM

Quote :

" I have never knowingly done anything that would even violate an attempt at the rule.”"

#JustAntiSocialPersonalityThings

10/31/2014 11:06:10 AM

that is just distrue

10/31/2014 11:09:48 AM

I love that they're still digging. The hole is just getting deeper. I have a schadenfreudeboner.

10/31/2014 11:21:09 AM

Pat Forde was just on the Tony Kornheiser radio show and the both agreed that there is absolutely no way that Roy survives this

Forde also called for both banners to come down

10/31/2014 11:25:13 AM