Ben,
It is obvious that you are trash and your game is in a constant downward spiral. I would just concentrate on short handed cincinnati and Homaha.

11/4/2005 11:56:25 AM

finished 200th out of a 2500 person tournament when my full house lost to a runner runner giving the guy a royal flush

11/4/2005 12:48:50 PM

I think Jon offered the dude a deal at least two times.


Other guy declined, and Jon eventually took his chips. Won't go into detail i'm sure he would wanna elaborate. I was just the innocent bystander standing by.

11/4/2005 1:34:49 PM

That's dirty Mr. Jon Turner... The 7-2.

We had some fun/dirtAY hands last night...

I kept losing my flushes by one card... and by getting sucked out... lol

I had K of hearts, 9 of spades one hand... flop comes KQJ of spades. I stick around... Turn is another spade... River is nothing... One chick had the three of spades and this other guy Mike had the 10 of spades. Had both of them on the flop too. Ah well.

Two hands later: I didn't have many chips left so I went all in for the blind of 800 + my last 100 w/ A of hearts, 10 of diamonds...

Flop... 4 of diamonds, 10 of hearts, 6 of diamonds, next card King of diamonds, next card 3 of diamonds... and the same guy who had the 10 of spades earlier- had the Jack high flush to my 10 high flush. haha

Hands not involving me...

Mr JonnySim up there had 33. Flop came <heart> <heart> 3 of hearts. Turn another heart. One guy went all in, got a caller. JonnySim folded... River 3.

The last fun hand... Everyone had been betting constantly at this flop and it ended up having 3 or 4 people till the river w/ all in's everywhere and such... and 4 clubs on the board... so one chick turns over the 8 of clubs and is like "I HAVE FLUSH!!!" Mike (the guy w/ the 10 of spades and Jack of diamonds) turns over the 7 of clubs slowly and the girl lunges at the chips and then he slowly turns over the Ace of clubs...

Brutal. I don't know if you're really allowed to do that though?

11/4/2005 2:35:51 PM

OK here is one for you online conspiracy theorists.





I have started dabbling in limit a bit so I can build my game up a bit. I definitely have no confidence in my limit game so I have done as Ben suggested, and playing a while at a very low limit table. I am trying different strategies to see how things work out, ie bluffing a lot, raising preflop, not raising preflop, seeing as many flops as I can, etc. I just want to figure out what is most effective because I KNOW I will get lots of callers. Anyways, on to the hand.

You may or may not have noticed in the picture above the striking similarities between the 2 hands. In the first hand, I get Q2 of clubs and (since I am trying out different strategies) I play it. The flop comes 10H 4C 6D. I try bluffing at the pot the whole time, thinking that the guy probably has high cards but I end up losing to QQ. No big deal.

Exactly 2 hands later I look down and once again I get Q2 of clubs. Once again I play it, and once again the flop is 10H 4C 6D. I took screenshots (duh) of the hand histories just because it was so amazing. Not only did I get the exact same starting hand and the exact same flop, the cards on the flop were also in the EXACT same order. Seriously, what are the chances of this? Just using a simple formula for the odds I get (52*51*50*49*48), or 1 in 311,875,200.

I know I have made many a post in which I vehemently claimed that online poker is rigged. I think this proves almost beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is at the very least a flaw in the computer software. I am sure somebody who knows what they are doing could easily exploit this flaw to predict cards. I have seen one of those "Inside Vegas" shows where someone did virtually the same thing with a Keno program at an actual casino, and they made lotsa $$. Transferring this principle to online poker is not a very far stretch at all.

Just something to think about.

11/4/2005 2:46:25 PM

its bad etiquette

11/4/2005 2:46:55 PM

this is insane.

im at a 2/2 plo8 game right now with an average pot size over $200.

avg pot over the max buy in... the table is fucking bananas.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 3:32 PM. Reason : ok i left, i cant handle that right now.]

11/4/2005 3:26:25 PM

I've been heads up at 3 final tables of online tourneys in the last week, and I lost the first two, which is why I really wanted to make some sort of a deal here. He also had me about 2:1 in chips when we started, but the blinds were relatively small, and he was so content to bet with nothing that I let him do it and things worked out fine in the end. I never open-raised preflop once heads up (which isn't necessarily a good strategy at all, but against this guy's style, it seemed to work well), although I re-raised a few times after I limped from the small blind. I don't think I was ever all in when I had the shorter stack the whole time, never putting myself at risk. Of course this was just a $20 tournament, so we're not talking about the best calliber of players, but it was still nice to win instead of 2nd for once - first paid almost $3,200, while 2nd was only $1,800! Huge difference!

I lost a tourney heads up a few days ago on Full Tilt ($200 buy in, WSOP circuit satellite for a $10,000 seat). Only 1 seat awarded, although I did get $3,200 for 2nd place. But I REALLY wanted that seat!

11/4/2005 3:50:42 PM

Man, you mind letting us know how much total you are up this year or since whenever you started playing?

11/4/2005 5:08:01 PM

going to work, wish me luck

11/4/2005 5:37:37 PM

about 80k on the year, but ~60k since I moved to Vegas 5 months ago... that's the important number.

11/4/2005 5:37:58 PM

^ I guess you regret it then.

My online account is back down to $7 so I have to play $0.10 tables a while. I just lost 80 dollars on this hand.

This fucker had been raising to 10 on every hand. So I got him off one hand. This particular hand I got pocket Jacks. Flop came J 10 8. So he bet out like $2 and I raised to $4. He raised to $8. So after I reraise he goes all in for like $60. I called of course and he turned over KJ. I was like sweet. Then an ace and queen came and I was pissed. I was favored 20 to 1 on the flop.

I can normally recover on lower limits but it sucks.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 6:26 PM. Reason : a]

11/4/2005 6:26:05 PM

what a wonderful flop

** Game ID 566579308 starting - 2005-11-05 00:49:41

** Magdalena [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 Pot Limit - Cash Game) Real Money



- Blondg0d sitting in seat 2 with $88.62

- HKayNg sitting in seat 3 with $21.30

- iewolf sitting in seat 5 with $47.23 [Dealer]

- AA_Glory_AA sitting in seat 6 with $99.73



AA_Glory_AA posted the small blind - $0.25

Blondg0d posted the big blind - $0.50



** Dealing card to iewolf: King of Clubs, King of Hearts

HKayNg folded

iewolf raised - $1.00

AA_Glory_AA folded

Blondg0d called - $1.00



** Dealing the flop: 8 of Clubs, King of Spades, 3 of Hearts

Blondg0d checked

iewolf checked



** Dealing the turn: 5 of Diamonds

Blondg0d checked

iewolf bet - $0.50

Blondg0d called - $0.50



** Dealing the river: 5 of Hearts

Blondg0d checked

iewolf bet - $1.00

Blondg0d raised - $6.25

iewolf raised - $22.00

Blondg0d raised - $69.25

iewolf went all-in - $23.73

Blondg0d shows: 3 of Diamonds, 3 of Clubs

iewolf wins $92.71 from the main pot



End of game 566579308

11/5/2005 12:53:48 AM

what site is that hh from halo?

11/5/2005 12:54:27 AM

So I flop a set of queens and I think I am golden......

They flopped a set of aces

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 1:14 AM. Reason : Props to Jon :-)]

11/5/2005 1:07:16 AM

^^ bet365.com (its a prima skin)

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 1:16 AM. Reason : .]

11/5/2005 1:15:46 AM

For any sweaters out there, I'm about to be on the final table of the 10pm est. $30 on UB AND the 8:30pm est. $10 + rebuys on stars...

well, fingers crossed, down to 13 in each, and I've got a shitload of chips in each


Final table now on Stars... down to 13 on UB

Final table now on UB... and chip leader... but I'm low stack on stars (down to 8 there)

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 1:41 AM. Reason : .]

11/5/2005 1:22:31 AM

Fuck, 7th on Stars... shitty $652...

But at least I just got the chip lead back on UB.

Ugh, 5th on UB... $845

NOT the finishes we were looking for

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 2:16 AM. Reason : .]

11/5/2005 1:55:28 AM

damn dude, my best finish in any online tournament is like 49th. i guess it would help if i didn't play just free ones, but still, thats damn impressive

11/5/2005 10:18:36 AM

anyone want to play tonight in North Raleigh?

PM Me for info

11/5/2005 11:14:01 AM

third time in 2 days I've lost to runner runner spade flush...

FullTiltPoker Game #279374507: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (1802196), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:52:56 ET - 2005/11/05
Seat 2: tomloes (7,380)
Seat 3: jtheruler79 (6,120)
tomloes posts the small blind of 60
jtheruler79 posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tomloes [Td 8d]
tomloes calls 60
jtheruler79 checks
*** FLOP *** [7s 9s 6d]
jtheruler79 bets 120
tomloes raises to 240
jtheruler79 raises to 840
tomloes raises to 2,760
jtheruler79 raises to 4,680
tomloes raises to 7,260, and is all in
jtheruler79 calls 1,320, and is all in
tomloes shows [Td 8d]
jtheruler79 shows [5d 8s]
Uncalled bet of 1,260 returned to tomloes
*** TURN *** [7s 9s 6d] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [7s 9s 6d 5s] [Qs]
tomloes shows a straight, Ten high
jtheruler79 shows a flush, Queen high
jtheruler79 wins the pot (12,240) with a flush, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12,240 | Rake 0
Board: [7s 9s 6d 5s Qs]
Seat 2: tomloes (small blind) showed [Td 8d] and lost with a straight, Ten high
Seat 3: jtheruler79 (big blind) showed [5d 8s] and won (12,240) with a flush, Queen high

11/5/2005 9:11:54 PM

12 away from the money on partypoker. i'm the short stack out of 112 players though, so the odds aren't in my favor

4 players away from the money, and i've got 34 chips, haha. the blinds just passed me, so i'm folding everything and maybe i'll get my buy-in back

woohoo! won $2.50. not impressive at all i know, but this is my first money finish

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 11:13 PM. Reason : v]

11/5/2005 10:48:24 PM

what tomloes posted, thats the kind of shit that always happens when i play

if something bad HAS to happen, why cant it ever be the card that would split the pot?

they say theres about a 1:10 chance of losing in that position after the flop.... but it seems like i lose about 4 out of every 10 situations like that on a constant basis. of course ive also been the guy in the same position as the other guy... and i only seem to suck out about 10% of the time. so much for the "long run"

i dont think i have the luck needed to play poker for financial gain

is there a program i can load hand histories into that will show how much i get sucked out on vs what the "odds" are?

11/6/2005 12:50:02 AM

4th in the $100 buy in $35,000 gauranteed tonight on party... nice $3100 profit, however it should've been a lot more. NEVER make the following mistake:

4 players left, sb limps, I have QT on bb. flop KQ4... he bets min, I'm pretty damn sure I'm ahead. I call. Ten on turn... he bets min again, I go all in now for about $60k ($30k in pot, and I'm 2nd big stack - the guy in the hand with me was huge chip leader). So he had J9, and of course turned a straight and knocked me out 4th. But that's not the mistake. The short stack at the table had less than the big blind left, and he was bb next hand! I didn't pay attention at all to that. 3rd would've gotten me $1k more, and I should NEVER have pushed in the situation where I did when he was pretty sure to go out next hand. ALWAYS BE AWARE OF THE STACK SIZES AT A FINAL TABLE!!

[Edited on November 6, 2005 at 1:03 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2005 1:00:53 AM

dude, how the fuck are you so good at online poker. people play so freakin stupid on there

11/6/2005 1:05:32 AM

haha, you just answered your own question

11/6/2005 1:19:09 AM

no what i mean is people will just play anything and catch bullshit. i guess playing higher stakes has something to do with it, but i still think these sites deal out loaded cards

11/6/2005 1:21:56 AM

nothing's rigged man... and everyone gets the bullshit... I lost AA to KQo all in preflop and AA to AKo all in preflop within 5 minutes of each other today... knocked me out of 2 tourneys. Shit happens, but there's so much bad play online that it's easy to take advantage of it in the long run.

11/6/2005 1:23:42 AM

So Jon, you find it completely reasonable that I just had 2 hands within 2 minutes of eachother where I was dealt the exact same cards and the exact same flop came out in the exact same order? I find that impossible to contribute to simple randomness.

11/6/2005 1:17:43 PM

^

That seemingly happens a lot when multitabling.

11/6/2005 1:19:05 PM

That's a 1 in 300 million chance. I doubt anyone here will even see close to that in a lifetime. Someone who plays 1000 hands a day, everyday for 50 years straight will see 18.2 million hands (and they wouldn't even see all the flops either).

11/6/2005 1:37:24 PM

there is no long run when you have terrible luck!

11/6/2005 1:48:27 PM

feebleminded, not that i don't believe you but I would like to see the hand history for those hands and I find it believable that it could happen. just cause its a 1 in 200 million chance doesn't mean it never happens

11/6/2005 1:52:25 PM

i mean nothing is random is the purest sense of the word. At the end of the day, it is a computer program designed to model the theoretical notion of randomness; it is a computer that executes very specific instructions. Even the random number generator, or random number table that it uses are not purely random. At the very basic level of the program there is certainty. Someone crack the code and let me know what's up.

With that said, you can still definetly win online (as most people in this thread already know)

11/6/2005 2:16:28 PM

i wrote a program that "shuffles" and deals

i just got your down cards and flop twice in 24178 hands

11/6/2005 2:30:36 PM

i am still looking for a good place to play... good software, good playerbase, good tournys/sng, etc. etc.

JonTurner... we worked together at CC... now tell me where to play!!!

11/6/2005 2:48:47 PM

Quote :

"Even the random number generator, or random number table that it uses are not purely random. At the very basic level of the program there is certainty. Someone crack the code and let me know what's up."

ummm, yeah it's not exactly as easy as most psuedo-random number generators. Usually these random number generators use external inputs which are "random" to produce the random output.

So, yes in the truest sense of the word, it is not random. but more than likely, it is as random as anything else in this world...

11/6/2005 3:45:41 PM

my point is this:

In a B&M card game, a human shuffles the cards. The shuffle from one hand to the next will most likely not be identical. 2 cards may stick together one time, they may not the next, no one knows ahead of time.

With online shuffling, no matter how much data manipulation is involved to remove the results from the inputs, the sequence is known. It is predetermined, and although the process will produce varying results, the process itself is identical, and therefore predictable

[Edited on November 6, 2005 at 3:54 PM. Reason : of course you would need inside info in order to know what algorthims are used]

11/6/2005 3:53:16 PM

I know party poker uses time of day and network activity for a basis in seeding. I don't know what absolute uses, but wouldn't the seed offering most psuedo-random results be something like radioactive decay or background noise?

How We Learned to Cheat at Online Poker: A Study in Software Security
June 7, 2001
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/616221

11/6/2005 4:03:16 PM

interesting link, but extremely out of date.

11/6/2005 4:21:54 PM

what you have to realize about feeblemindeds problem is that there are only 5 cards that have to appear in the correct order

like i found his down cards + flop twice in ~25k shuffles (and thats probably way too frequent, i admit), but i still havent found the same deck (3 million), and i probably wont even if i let it run for a long time. ill try to find his hand twice again and see how long that takes.

i dont think youre at any disadvantage just because you saw the same flop twice in 2 minutes.

11/6/2005 4:26:29 PM

HaLo the screenshots are on this page a few posts up. I am pretty sure you can request the hand history (the hand numbers are on the screenshots) from Absolute Poker.

11/6/2005 4:29:15 PM

Also Travis, it's not just the same flop that concerns me. It's the fact that the flop came in the exact same order on the screen.

11/6/2005 4:32:02 PM

oh i was talking about the same order

no to get too much into how this works, because my project will eventually lead to world domination but lets say there are 52 cards (haha)

9 people at the table in this instance. you get cards 2 and 11 from the deck. 19 gets burned (i felt like that would be more accurate, i dont know if the cardrooms burn a card or not) -- so with 9 hands, 20 21 22 are the flop

so 2,11,20,21,22 were the exact same 2 times. id have to know the exact math of that, and run my generator a bunch of times to get my average vs "true" random.... i guess there are like 4 quadrillion decks that could supposedly be. not sure what the math is to place 5 of the 52 in the same order

thats also assuming you have the same seat both times.... i think it would occur more frequently if youre in different seats.

[Edited on November 6, 2005 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2005 4:40:03 PM

it also seems like a computerized shuffler would be more random than IRL shuffling. if theres a 10s on the bottom of the deck, its not likely gonna end up on top of the deck the next hand. i wonder how/IF they factor stuff like that into their programs.

i guess this really isnt a poker story, but ive been wondering that and it seems to be the topic of discussion atm.

[Edited on November 6, 2005 at 4:47 PM. Reason : hhhh]

11/6/2005 4:46:48 PM

33w$ for $29

11/6/2005 6:40:23 PM

damn, looks like turner is playing in the 33R that i qualified for the 33w$ for messing around in a $2 sat for

didnt see its a rebuy tournament when i sat'ed into it

wait, maybe not, unless his ps name is a bit different than his pp name.

[Edited on November 6, 2005 at 6:54 PM. Reason : whoops!]

11/6/2005 6:49:42 PM

so is anything going on tonight?

11/6/2005 7:03:01 PM

motherfucker took me out the other day cause his straight went to 6 and mine went to 5

11/6/2005 7:13:00 PM

haha best story ever

11/6/2005 7:16:55 PM