Wow. Check out this crushing "refutation" of the 9/11 truth movement. I think I'll now be forced to admit 9/11 happened just like the GovtMediaEstablishment says.

http://tinyurl.com/2f4san

[

Quote :

"Proving The 9/11 Conspiracists Wrong By John Hawkins Friday, June 8, 2007 [...] If you spend a lot of time on the internet, you'll hear everything from Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen, to Bush was behind 9/11, the Mossad was behind 9/11, the Pentagon was hit by a truck bomb, the Pentagon was hit by a missile, the World Trade Center was taken down by explosives, WTC 7 was taken down by explosives, mini-nukes were used on the WTC, United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down by a missile, United Airlines Flight 93 was never shot down at all, etc., etc., etc.. In other words, any and every crackpot theory that you could come up with in your wildest nightmare has probably been floated by some lunatic or attention seeker on the Internet."

Uh oh. He used the word "crackpot" and and smeared them as "lunatics" and "attention seekers", and characterized their views as just "theories." How in the hell can you argue against these smear tactics and strawman arguments?

Quote :

"So why have these conspiracy theories managed to spread?"

Because the truth has a way of doing that. But back to the smear/hit piece...

Quote :

"In large part because most serious commentators usually think it's beneath them to actually take the time to respond to the conspiracy theorists. The problem with that is that the nuts end up dominating the conversation by default because the sane, knowledgeable people tend to opt out of the conversation."

Oh, so the glorious people in the government & media have "opted out" of the whole 9/11 and "war on terror" conversation. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRE. The establishment hacks and propagandists....errrr "serious commentators"...in the establishment Jewish-controlled media are constantly pushing the "official" story on 9/11, the "war on terror", etc . It's pumped 24/7 into the minds of every American. On top of that, they are ignoring the arguments of the 9/11 truth movement (ie, suppressing the evidence and arguments that prove the "official" story is false).

And yet despite all that, a large portion of the population still won't accept the establishment media line and propaganda?...with ~40%+ believing the government was involved and ~85%+ believing that the government is lying about what really happened. What does that tell you genius? More and more people aren't buying the establishment bullshit. They're abandoning the "mainstream" sources that routinely lie to us on a grand scale, and are getting news & analysis via the internet and non-establishment sources.

Quote :

"The 9/11 attacks, or at least parts of those attacks, have been investigated by the 9/11 commission, the CIA, FBI, FAA, FEMA, The National Institute of Standards and Technology, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Popular Mechanics, and countless mainstream newspapers -- among other sources. None of these sources have concluded that there is any sort of grand conspiracy going on, that Bush was behind 9/11, that the Pentagon was hit with a truck bomb, that WTC 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition, etc."

Oh...so the government investigated itself? Well holy shit...cased closed then!

Ooooh. And popular mechanics and other lamestream....errrrr "mainstream"....newspapers agree with the government! We all know that only the "mainstream" sources and the government can give us the 100% gospel truth!

It MUST be true because the government and establishment/corporate media said so!!!!!!

6/18/2007 4:36:32 PM

go away, people don't even read your shit anymore. Oh, except Mr Joshua, who has a stalkerish fascination with you.

6/18/2007 4:41:16 PM

Quote :

"Mr Joshua, who has a stalkerish fascination with you"

and there you have it joshuatroll

6/18/2007 4:45:07 PM

Some of the comments to the article...

http://tinyurl.com/2f4san

Quote :

"Using childish terms like "kook" instead of refuting the data merely reaffirms its validity. Thanks! [...] One of Scotland's leading papers, the Sunday Herald, had a long article describing five Israeli army officers, dressed as Palestinians, filming 9/11 in NYC as it ocurred, high fiving each other in glee. With our mainstream media and politicians under Zionist influence (intimidation), you have to evaluate everything in light of the fact that it is impossible to print or broadcast anything potentially adverse to Isreal in this country (and that makes our citizens truth deprived or unbalanced). Reference to that episode (reported in Scotland) can be found in a small paragraph in the Washington Post, but in a way that conveys nothing and certainly no powerful suspicion of Israel (acting with foreknowledge to facilitate and excaberate the event). Our administration classified all links of Israel to 9/11 which were considerable based on knowledge outted prior to that classification. (Same as our government did when Israel attacked USS Liberty in 1967). It even prohibited members of the 9/11 Commission from seeing the most sensitive documents. [...] Israel benefitted from the attack, as did the owner of the Twin towers (who reportedly talked to Netanyehyu weekly); and Israel was following the attackers here in USA and was very close to them, if it had not infiltrated them. I am convinced that controlled demolition helped bring the towers down; that someone smart like Mossad (deception is their pride) helped target the date when our simultaneous FAA hijack drills and false radar images were going on. We have been told a lie, which those involved would call an "edited version" because Israel cannot survive disclosure of truth. I believe that those around GWB knew what was coming (as the German Intelligence report and Israeli intelligence report indicate ---as there is even evidence that Israel thought it had forewarned us by telling the Germans, but did not realize the communication would never get delivered;....Isreal did false flag attack against our libraries/cultural centers in Egypt in 1954 to attempt to induce us to attack the Muslim Brotherhood. It murdered our sailors on USS Liberty in 1967 but our government threatened the survivors with cimes if they reported it. [...] Mr. Hawkins, you wonder why "conspiracy" theories abound... it's because the official explanation is so patently absurd! Consider: why was the air defence system ordered to stand down, under Cheney? why did Pentagon employees smell explosives, and there were no airplane parts found? why haven't Pentagon videos been released, or an independent investigation allowed? why did the towers explode, after the fires were out? why did hundreds of people hear explosions, "pop pop pop like a controlled demolition"? why were the ends of steel beams still molten, three weeks later in the rubble? why did WTC 7 collapse, controlled-demolition style? Please, people, pull your heads out of the sand. The shadow government had the motive - war and power and profit - and the means."

Many of the "9/11 truthers" posting comments to the article are aware of the Israeli/Jewish connections to 9/11, control of the U.S. government & media, etc.

6/18/2007 5:27:18 PM

6/18/2007 5:39:03 PM

More comments...

http://tinyurl.com/2f4san

Quote :

"Another conspiracy that no doubt didn't happen. It's the 40th anniversary of the USS Liberty incident today - and I can bet that most of the idiots defending the official BS on here and elsewhere aren't even aware it happened. Go check it out. There is lots of precedent that Israel has and will attack the USA, with the full knowledge of the government of the USA. Didn't happen though, right? Nothing to see here...! [...] Towards the end of 2006 I chanced upon a video of Building 7 while linking to sites on the internet. Since that day I have arduously continued to research all aspects of 9/11, our Government, Israel, Zionism, Talmud, Khazar, Ashkenazi, PNAC, CFR, UN, World Bank, AIPAC, Southern Law Center, ADL, Rothchild, Rockefeller, ALCOA, Du Pont, Federal Reserve... [...] Until about a year ago, I believed the official story too. When someone suggested our government was behind 9/11, I thought, hmm, that's interesting, they needed the excuse for war/ patriot act/ money to Halliburton/ etc; but how would they pull it off? After researching everything I could find - websites, books, magazines, pictures, videos - it certainly seems there was a lot more to it than 19 hijackers. So here's what I don't get: why do otherwise rational people refuse to entertain the possibility that there's more going on? Why the naive reaction of, the gov't couldn't possibly do that to its own people? They killed a president, why not civilians? Why don't people look at evidence with an open mind? I still don't know how they pulled it off. History will fill in the details. What's important is recognition that this was a psyop false flag operation carried out by the highest levels of our government. [...] No vast conspiracy is required 1. If you believe that 19 hijackers, and 2-3 outside planners, pulled off the entirety of the 9/11 attacks, then you must also submit that NO MORE THAN 22 people are necessary to achieve the events of the day. If these 22 people are a group of highly motiviated private contractors, or a rougue military unit, that makes the conspriacy no more wisdespread than 22 people. There is no need for a 'vast' government conspriacy in the case where persons related to the government or military carried the attack out. 3. HISTORY SUPPORTS the concept of the military perpetrating criminal acts to make them look like terrorism. Anyone with a computer can GOOGLE 'Operation Northwoods' and learn that the US military planned a series of 'terror' attacks that they alone would perpetrate, but then blame on Cuba by the planting of evidence. When done properly, EVERYONE, including investigators into the attacks, THINKS it was done by terrorists. That is why no 'vast' government conspiracy is required in this case. The perpetrators make sure, by the planting of evidence in the few right places, that nobody else needs to know, or can know, about their plan."

But, obviously, 9/11 was not carried out in such a way as to prevent people from discovering the truth that it was a false flag attack.

6/18/2007 6:19:58 PM

haha

hilarious

for real..why isnt salis dead yet??

6/18/2007 8:19:24 PM

why would I be dead?

6/18/2007 9:39:16 PM

I would think that the Zionists would have snuffed you long ago.

Lets think about that for a minute. This all-powerful organization can control governments, the media, numerous intelligence agencies, and managed to silence the literally thousands of people necessitated to pull off this conspiracy, but they can't scrounge up the manpower to keep one guy from exposing their grande scheme on a message board?

I suppose the greatest flaw in your argument is that you are still alive to make it. You are living proof of that. The real question is: why would you not be dead?

6/19/2007 1:23:19 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_us/attacks_simulation

Quote :

"INDIANAPOLIS - A computer simulation of the 2001 World Trade Center attacks supports a federal agency's findings that the initial impact from the hijacked airplanes stripped away crucial fireproofing material and that the weakened towers collapsed under their own weight. The two-year Purdue University study, funded in part by the National Science Foundation, was the first to use 3-D animation to provide visual context to the attacks, said Christoph Hoffmann, a professor of computer science and one of the lead researchers on the project."

it goes on. . . . but you can check that out for yourself.

[Edited on June 20, 2007 at 4:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2007 4:49:20 PM

Purdue is in on the vast conspiracy, duh!

6/20/2007 7:07:06 PM

Geez, I disappear for a few days and the stupidity gets cranked up a notch.

Quote :

"Wow. Check out this crushing "refutation" of the 9/11 truth movement."

As usual, you don't say anything in response to the substance of the article. You simply point out any word that refers to conspiracy theorists as anything less than flattering and try to use that to ruin the credibility of the article. The funny thing is that you and your demigod Alex Jones slander anyone who dares to question you.

Oh and then you mention some statistics in the hopes that putting yourself on a bandwagon means that you don't need a discussion.

Basically you use your same two tricks to avoid discussion.

Than you cite posts by other conspiracy theorists in the hopes that it will give your credibility a boost. You completely ignore all of the posts pointing out the many logical fallacies of people like you.

"Having spent a career in planning and building commercial structures, and unfortunately some time in the investigation of structural failures, I can say without doubt that a "pancake failure" will collapse at a rate approaching gravitational free fall. The taller the structure, the closer the failure comes to a free fall rate. Only the first few floors offer any significant resistance to the inertia of the fall.

The design load capacity of an office floor is generally about 100lbs/sf. The force exerted by even one floor, falling at the acceleration of gravity, on to the floor below greatly exceeds the design load of the floor below. Obviously the force grows geometrically with each successive floor, and soon the floor below offers negligible resistance to the force from above.

"Pancake Failures" (most occur during the construction process) have played out numerous times in the past - all show exactly these characteristics."

Quote :

"joshuatroll"

How in the hell can you argue against these smear tactics and strawman arguments?

Grow up little buddy. If anyone ever says anything remotely insulting you throw a tantrum like they stole the last fudgesicle.

Check this out:

Photos of aircraft wreckage and human remains at the Pentagon:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

Quote :

"Nine 'courageous firefighters' die in warehouse blaze Daniel Shahid, who works at a nearby car dealership, told AP that dealership employees helped carry hoses and direct traffic. He said the fire quickly spread throughout the building, which collapsed less than 30 minutes after the blaze began."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/19/charleston.fire/index.html

Burning couches made a steel framed building collapse. Is that part of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the furniture industry?

[Edited on June 20, 2007 at 10:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2007 10:12:24 PM

Quote :

"I would think that the Zionists would have snuffed you long ago. Lets think about that for a minute. This all-powerful organization can control governments, the media, numerous intelligence agencies, and managed to silence the literally thousands of people necessitated to pull off this conspiracy, but they can't scrounge up the manpower to keep one guy from exposing their grande scheme on a message board? I suppose the greatest flaw in your argument is that you are still alive to make it. You are living proof of that. The real question is: why would you not be dead?"

It's not just "one guy." It's literally TENS/HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people all over the world. What are they going to do? Come kill all of us? That's impossible.

The truth about 9/11 was going to come out eventually. Just like with the JFK assassination. The establishment was banking on the fact that they control the "mainstream" media and could suppress the evidence, push their "official" story, and smear anyone who dissents. But due to the internet & alternative media, the truth has spread far and wide and is accelerating.

6/21/2007 7:27:23 AM

Quote :

"Basically you use your same two tricks to avoid discussion. Than you cite posts by other conspiracy theorists in the hopes that it will give your credibility a boost. You completely ignore all of the posts pointing out the many logical fallacies of people like you."

Go away you fucking hack. You suck at life, you don't make any points of your own, the points you copy and paste from other web sites are as sound in principle as swiss cheese blasted with a shot gun. You're boring, lame, and uninteresting. You're a parody of yourself, which is sad because yourself is all the aforementioned lametry. In short, you're irrelevant. Eliminate your existence.

6/21/2007 9:08:23 AM

Quote :

"Go away you fucking hack...Eliminate your existence."

you wish

6/21/2007 9:55:52 AM

dude

everyone wishes that

shut the fuck up

6/21/2007 9:56:27 AM

Quote :

"shut the fuck up"

no

6/21/2007 10:00:10 AM

6/21/2007 10:31:58 AM

Please explain this:

Quote :

"Nine 'courageous firefighters' die in warehouse blaze Daniel Shahid, who works at a nearby car dealership, told AP that dealership employees helped carry hoses and direct traffic. He said the fire quickly spread throughout the building, which collapsed less than 30 minutes after the blaze began."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/19/charleston.fire/index.html

Burning couches made a steel framed building collapse. Is that part of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the furniture industry?

6/21/2007 10:35:12 AM

and I could cite many examples where large fires in modern, steel skyscrapers did not cause a collapse

in fact, a modern steel skyscraper has NEVER collapsed due to fire

6/21/2007 10:42:48 AM

Why isn't anyone responding to the SINGLE PLANE THEORY?

6/21/2007 10:44:35 AM

^^ Why can't you address any questions substantially?

My point in posting it is that burning office materials do burn hot enough to weaken steel - a point that you have repeatedly denied. It does not take thermite and/or edomite to make a steel framed building collapse.

Your attempts at misdirection are growing more transparent.

6/21/2007 11:59:41 AM

Quote :

"It does not take thermite and/or edomite"

i chuckled

6/21/2007 12:50:10 PM

talking about edomites makes you....

an anti-semite

6/21/2007 1:19:34 PM

ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER ANY OF THE PLETHORA OF VALID QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SHIT YOU POST, OR ARE YOU JUST GOING TO MAKE SNARKY COMMENTS THAT DON'T DO SHIT FOR YOUR ARGUMENT, OR FOR THE DISCUSSION, OR FOR YOUR CREDIBILITY, OR FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME?

YOUR THREAD FAILED, YOUR CONSPIRACIES ARE JUST THAT, STUPID CRAP HATCHED UP BY NUT JOBS LIKE YOU THAT ARE AFRAID TO VENTURE OUTSIDE. THEY SUCK, THEY ARE BORING, THEY ARE LAME. EXTERMINATE YOUR EXISTENCE.

6/21/2007 1:28:10 PM

Hey salisburyboy, what do you think about Bloomberg and the possibility that he may run for office as an independent? This add fuel to your Zionist conspiracy? Where does this cog fit in?

6/21/2007 1:30:00 PM

Quote :

"YOUR THREAD FAILED, YOUR CONSPIRACIES ARE JUST THAT, STUPID CRAP HATCHED UP BY NUT JOBS LIKE YOU "

Quote :

"you wish"

6/21/2007 1:31:12 PM

^ Excellent rebuttal.

[golf clap]

6/21/2007 1:39:43 PM

We are winning. The truth movement (not only in regards to 9/11, but many other related issues) is exploding.

It's like with the JFK assassination. ~80%+ of Americans now believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and that the government is involved in the cover-up. In 3-5 more years, it will be the same with 9/11. I would estimate at this time that around 40-50% believe in government involvement and cover-up of 9/11.

6/21/2007 1:43:26 PM

Here ya go, here is another post you won't have any valid reply to

http://tinyurl.com/24ysta

6/21/2007 1:43:40 PM

^^ So does your perceived bandwagon mean that you can get away without saying anything intelligent?

6/21/2007 1:45:54 PM

Quote :

"Here ya go, here is another post you won't have any valid reply to "

Yeah, and Popular Mechanics "debunked" the 9/11 truth movement. What a fucking joke.

You don't think the establishment is going to peddle out their "scientists" and "reports" that claim to "support" their official story?

6/21/2007 1:47:10 PM

^ What is so ridiculous about it? You never address anything. You simply slander it (or whomever made it) and try to dismiss it. That hurts your credibility more than any theory that you have ever presented here.

Please clarify this - is every scientist who doesn't support your conspiracy theory part of the establishment?

6/21/2007 1:49:39 PM

Quote :

"Hey salisburyboy, what do you think about Bloomberg and the possibility that he may run for office as an independent?"

Don't really care. No one gives a shit about Bloomberg. If the JewMedia artificially elevates him to a "frontrunner" on the independent ticket, it would be just more evidence that the whole "electoral" process is a staged farce.

6/21/2007 2:00:36 PM

Quote :

"It's like with the JFK assassination. ~80%+ of Americans now believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and that the government is involved in the cover-up. In 3-5 more years, it will be the same with 9/11. I would estimate at this time that around 40-50% believe in government involvement and cover-up of 9/11."

sources?

6/21/2007 2:32:34 PM

http://www.themindofaravinglunatic.com/mindlessdrivel.php

6/21/2007 2:41:23 PM

Quote :

"sources?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/11/20/opinion/main23166.shtml

Quote :

"CBS Poll: JFK Conspiracy Lives By 74 percent to 13 percent, the public thinks there was an official cover-up to keep the public from learning the truth about the assassination. "

~1 year old poll on 9/11...

http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll

Quote :

"Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy [...] Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East.""

6/21/2007 2:43:20 PM

How does 74% = ~80%+?

I'll chalk that up as another blatant lie or exaggeration spun by salisburyboy to prop up his ideas.

How does 36% = 40% - 50%?

Also note that the figure doesn't differentiate between LIHOP or MIHOP and doesn't provide separate figures for "very likely" or "somewhat likely".

6/21/2007 2:56:56 PM

Quote :

"How does 36% = 40% - 50%? "

As I noted, that 9/11 poll is around a year old. The numbers are surely higher than 36% now.

As for your nitpicking on ~80% for the JFK assassination, note the "~" which denotes "approximately". That poll says it was 74%-76% who believe in a conspiracy. I've seen other polls that have the percentage higher than 76% who believe in a conspiracy.

6/21/2007 3:09:55 PM

WELL IF AMERICANS BELIEVE THERE IS A CONSPIRACY, THEN THERE MOST CERTAINLY WAS ONE. EXTERMINATE YOURSELF.

6/21/2007 3:11:20 PM

Quote :

"WELL IF AMERICANS BELIEVE THERE IS A CONSPIRACY, THEN THERE MOST CERTAINLY WAS ONE. EXTERMINATE YOURSELF."

I've always made a very clear distinction b/w what is fact/reality and what people believe.

So back ~4 years ago when ~98% of the public still believed the "official" 9/11 story, that didn't make it true then.

I'm noting public opinion now in response to your accusation that I (and by implication the 9/11 truth movement) have "failed."



[Edited on June 21, 2007 at 3:19 PM. Reason : 3]

6/21/2007 3:16:03 PM

But you have failed.

6/21/2007 3:25:35 PM

Quote :

"The numbers are surely higher than 36% now."

completely arbitrary and speculative; that is your personal opinion, not fact.

6/21/2007 3:32:08 PM

Quote :

"completely arbitrary and speculative; that is your personal opinion, not fact. "

Look at what I initially said genius...

Quote :

"I would estimate at this time that around 40-50% believe in government involvement and cover-up of 9/11. "

"Estimate". I ADMITTED I was speculating.

6/21/2007 3:36:52 PM

dont know whether to take your use of "genius" as slander or a compliment

6/21/2007 3:39:04 PM

So basically you're trying to make people come over to your side by presenting imaginary data so that it looks like you're on a popular bandwagon?

Oh well, I guess its easier for you to do that than to have a rational discussion.

6/21/2007 3:51:08 PM

Quote :

"So basically you're trying to make people come over to your side by presenting imaginary data"

If you have a more recent poll on the subject, then please show us.

In the absence of a recent poll, what would you have us do? I didn't just dream up something. I made a logical estimate...eg, based upon the poll that was one year old, the growth in the 9/11 truth movement over time, etc.

6/21/2007 4:59:44 PM

There is nothing logical about inflated numbers, little buddy.

6/21/2007 5:02:08 PM

Guys, you cannot use logic to convince someone who did not arrive at their conclusions with sound logic. Stop wasting your time and ignore SB. He's not worth getting angry over.

6/21/2007 5:25:36 PM

[Edited on June 21, 2007 at 8:22 PM. Reason : .]

6/21/2007 8:21:44 PM