Usually you "earn" an A. You don't "learn" that you get an A. lolz

11/6/2014 1:33:03 PM

The thing that gets me is how surprised they act about it all, or that must have only happened recently. You think Vince Carter "earned" his degree in AFAM? Come on, I'm not sure he can read at an 8th grade level today.

[Edited on November 6, 2014 at 3:22 PM. Reason : :]

11/6/2014 3:21:14 PM

Maybe I'm dead wrong, but Vince seems like he is relatively intelligent. I mean, he damn near missed a Game 7 playoff game versus AI and the Sixers just so he could attend his graduation.

Hobbs Johnson on the other hand...why didn't he just go pro once he got drafted? Get paid legally right out of high school?

11/6/2014 3:24:07 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I'm dead wrong, but Vince seems like he is relatively intelligent. I mean, he damn near missed a Game 7 playoff game versus AI and the Sixers just so he could attend his graduation."

Along these same lines, I think it's hilarious when UNC fans trot examples of guys like Marcus Paige...who take academics seriously and are getting the most out of their college education. 1) You mean he's actually being a...STUDENT? Good for him, I guess. 2) As if that somehow precludes UNC from any wrong doing and blatant cheating for athletes who actually wanted it. I don't think anybody's saying 100% of student-athletes were given free grades at UNC. Obviously that's not the case.

11/6/2014 3:48:12 PM

^, this is PR Spin Control 101, introductory level. You always minimize the bad and push the good. It doesn't matter what the situation is. "Sir, your client embezzled money from half his clients over the last year....." "Well, my client didn't embezzle from the other half SO THERE"

I think folks would be surprised to see that this method does work on a large part of the general population. UNC Admin trotting out Marcus Paige in front of their BOT this summer to have him exclaim "BUT WE CAN READ" was one of the more embarrassing parts of the scandal to me. I'm sure his parents were thrilled.

11/6/2014 4:05:24 PM

Right. It just seems so shallow and transparent that I'm shocked people actually eat that shit up.

11/6/2014 4:30:00 PM

Pretty sure Carter was pretty smart...he was even in the marching band in high school. Not to say there aren't dumb people in marching band...but dumb jocks don't waste their time marching around in stupid outfits at halftime.

11/6/2014 4:31:36 PM

I still can't get over the "Marcus is running late, he had an exam" bit at the conference kickoff. I wonder if they'll roll that out for ACC network games. Maybe Hogwood can interview him on the way to the arena. "How confident are you with your true/false answers Marcus? Were you able to bubble in the scantron completely in time to make the bus?" Step it up and have him reading a textbook on the bench during stoppage.

11/6/2014 4:58:14 PM

Quote :

"Not to say there aren't dumb people in marching band...but dumb jocks don't waste their time marching around in stupid outfits at halftime."

Reminder not all marching bands are corps style lamefests. It always gives me a bit of humor hearing some people talk about "band geeks" when I come from a school where people went to see the band as much if not more than the game.

11/6/2014 5:07:55 PM

your school probably sucked at football, bro

11/6/2014 5:34:43 PM

^^ Marching band was popular at my school too...but there weren't any all-star football and basketball players in there.

11/6/2014 5:48:30 PM

we had a ton of football, soccer, and lacrosse players in our band

11/6/2014 5:54:01 PM

Quote :

"all-star football and basketball players"

We had our share of Cheerleading uniforms and a few football uniforms mixed in with the band uniforms at halftime...but the point trying to be made (which everyone seems to be having difficulty with)...is that there aren't many McDAA's or 5-star running backs in the marching band. Jesus Christ guys.

11/6/2014 5:59:03 PM

Our HS FB team won the state championship and our marching band was apparently nationally ranked. Nobody gave two fucks though.

11/6/2014 6:04:09 PM

^^^^ Sure enough, not trying to be argumentative, just it's been interesting to me as I've gotten older and met more people how different my high school experience is from a lot of the people I meet since I went to an urban, mostly black high school. Much like HBC's band was always a big deal.

11/6/2014 6:34:23 PM

Quote :

"Reminder not all marching bands are corps style lamefests. It always gives me a bit of humor hearing some people talk about "band geeks" when I come from a school where people went to see the band as much if not more than the game."

SHUT UP YOU GODDAMN BAND GEEK

11/6/2014 6:58:13 PM

well this derailed quickly

11/6/2014 7:45:58 PM

It looks like its Thom Tillis and the GOP's fault that UNC had to cheat:

http://www.chapelhillnews.com/2014/10/31/4278866_mary-carey-asking-the-big-why.html?rh=1

11/6/2014 8:49:45 PM

Quote :

"Hobbs Johnson on the other hand...why didn't he just go pro once he got drafted? Get paid legally right out of high school?"

may not have been drafted high. a lot of players opt to play in college if that happens.

11/6/2014 9:17:50 PM

^^ first of all: ; secondly... anybody, then, want to take a crack at WHY their vaunted womens soccer team was caught cheating too?

11/6/2014 9:35:43 PM

since this seems to have evolved into the "NCAA Investigating UNC" thread and not just basketball specific, I'll leave this here, from Vikings cornerback and former UNC student Jabari Price

Quote :

"Jabari Price ?@JayPrice04 Nov 1 Do Lieutenant Dan have legs in real life? #ForestGump #Questionsthatneedanswers"

Quote :

"Maurizio Scarcella ?@Thunder_1985 Nov 1 @JayPrice04 Yes,the actor who plays Lieutenant Dan is Gary Sinise,who was in CSI New York cast too"

Quote :

"Jabari Price ?@JayPrice04 Nov 1 @Thunder_1985 so where did his legs go during Forest Gump?"

https://twitter.com/JayPrice04/status/528689324297302016

11/6/2014 9:42:00 PM

well that's just racist.

11/6/2014 10:50:05 PM

Quote :

"Jabari Price ?@JayPrice04 Nov 1 @Thunder_1985 so where did his legs go during Forest Gump?"

hahahahahahaha - no way he's not trolling

11/6/2014 11:18:45 PM

Quote :

"Jabari Price @JayPrice04 · Oct 21 Do the microwave light increase my light bill or nah? #questionsthatneedanswers #NeedMom"

11/6/2014 11:22:09 PM

Nigga thinks lights and electricity are billed separately

11/6/2014 11:57:40 PM

Dafuq is this shit? Can't wait for the NCAA notice of infractions so we can get back to the actual topic

[Edited on November 7, 2014 at 1:09 AM. Reason : ]

11/7/2014 1:09:24 AM

Saw this on Pack Pride. Kinda interesting I guess

http://www.alaskapublic.org/2014/11/06/uaf-athletics-penalized-for-eligibility-violations/

Quote :

"The University of Alaska Fairbanks has been penalized by the National Collegiate Athletic Association for eligibility violations. Wednesday, Chancellor Brian Rogers wanted it understood that that the athletes are not to blame. Vm P “These infractions were the result of university error and not due to wrongdoing by any of our student athletes,” Rogers said. Sanctions include a $30,000 fine, the short term elimination of some scholarships, no post season play for some teams during the 2014-15 season, and the vacation of wins and records achieved by offending athletes and teams they competed for. The academic eligibility violations involve 40 athletes in 9 UAF sports, between 2007 and 2011. The NCAA eligibility violations were self reported by UAF in 2011 and 2012. Chancellor Rogers attributed them to UAF failing to fully understand, and identify issues for student athletes. Among the numerous NCAA penalties, is a requirement that UAF develop a program to educate staff on eligibility certification and advising practices, something Athletic Director Gary Gray says the university has already implemented."

That article doesn't say exactly what UAF did...but it sounds like it was a similar scheme to UNC. Although I doubt it was going on for 18 years. Plus, they self reported. And didn't already have probation stemming from agent issues.

11/7/2014 8:17:48 AM

Wow. Can't believe the NCAA was willing to punish a cash cow like Alaska Fairbanks.

11/7/2014 8:23:24 AM

Hahah...obviously that's a fair point too. It's easier for the NCAA to dole out harsh punishment to schools like that

11/7/2014 8:38:25 AM

this may be naive but i really don't buy that unc is an ncaa "cash cow". how big of a tv draw can unc possibly be in the tournament? basketball just isn't that big, and the tournament would barely notice unc being absent.

if anyone has numbers to the contrary, please share.

11/7/2014 11:09:02 AM

7849

11/7/2014 11:14:57 AM

Merchandising.

11/7/2014 11:15:47 AM

Vacating national titles in March Madness(NCAA's marquee money making cash cow) reduces the overall integrity/reputation of the tournament and org as a whole.

NCAA has had multiple occasions to vacate national titles in basketball(Kansas in 88, Duke recently). They instead vacated USC's football title

[Edited on November 7, 2014 at 11:22 AM. Reason : ]

11/7/2014 11:22:33 AM

Quote :

"this may be naive but i really don't buy that unc is an ncaa "cash cow". how big of a tv draw can unc possibly be in the tournament? basketball just isn't that big, and the tournament would barely notice unc being absent. if anyone has numbers to the contrary, please share."

I definitely could be wrong, but I think the NCAAT is the NCAA's biggest money maker. And while football is much more of a cash cow for the schools and conferences, I was under the impression that the NCAAT was bigger for the NCAA

11/7/2014 11:30:10 AM

my point is that i find it hard to believe that unc being present/absent in the tournament has any real monetary implications from the ncaa's perspective.

^^ that's a good point... vacating 3 basketball titles isn't a great look for the tournament in general. it's a much better look for the ncaa as a whole though, i'd argue/hope.

11/7/2014 11:42:12 AM

The tournament ratings did just fine when UNC went 8-20, or when they are occasionally relegated to the NIT

But that's the narrative so I dunno

11/7/2014 11:53:05 AM

Quote :

"basketball just isn't that big, and the tournament would barely notice unc being absent."

Basketball is huge. Like as huge as an Xbox.

11/7/2014 11:56:23 AM

Quote :

"The NCAA’s basketball fund will distribute an estimated $194 million to the D1 conferences this year. That money is allocated according to each conference’s recent NCAA Tournament performances. The distribution is based on a six-year rolling period, and this year’s April payout will encompass the ongoing tournament as well as the previous five. Conferences get a tournament unit for every non-championship game played by a conference member in those six tourneys. A tournament unit is projected to be worth $250,106 this year, up 1.9% from last year’s $245,500 unit value. So if teams from the Atlantic 10 played a combined 35 tournament games over those six years, then the conference would receive $8.75 million in April. Perhaps the more interesting way to look at a unit’s value, however, is how much it nets a conference over its six-year life. Unit values change year to year, and next year’s per-unit payout is projected to be $255,379, a 2.1% growth over this year. Assuming an annual 2% increase every year thereafter, a single tournament unit won this year will accrue a total value of $1.58 million across the next six distributions. That’s not a ton of money, especially once you start breaking it down at a per-school level – Wichita State’s Final Four run will only earn the school an extra $80,000 or so per year – but it adds up quickly when a major conference has multiple schools making deep runs. Take, for instance, the ACC, which last year took home $18 million – or nearly 10% of the total distribution – from the 74 tournament units its teams won over the previous six tournaments. The Big Ten, Big 12 and Big East (prior to splitting) all netted over $20 million."

11/7/2014 12:12:19 PM

^ obviously it's bad for the acc, but that doesn't mention much about the ncaa's take.

11/7/2014 1:18:58 PM

I think the overall financial impact will be negligible to the NCAA if they suspend UNC for the 2015 and even the 2016 tournaments, as an example. However, it won't happen in a vacuum, and by doing so the NCAA will be setting a banhammer precedence that they'll be called to use every time violations come to surface, regardless of whether or not they are as bad as UNC's, which could end up being very costly if a bunch of good schools have to sit out one year. I don't know though, there really isn't a modern example for this.

11/7/2014 1:38:02 PM

ugh! Now now issue becomes money. If that's case then they are too big to fail. fuckers will skate.

11/7/2014 2:20:46 PM

The more I see with stuff like UAF, the more I love Rashad McCants:

ESPN, June 6th 2014:

Quote :

"...tutors wrote his term papers, he rarely went to class for about half his time at UNC, and he remained able to play largely because he took bogus classes designed to keep athletes academically eligible. McCants told "Outside the Lines" that he could have been academically ineligible to play during the championship season had he not been provided the assistance. Further, he said head basketball coach Roy Williams knew about the "paper class" system at UNC."

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11036924/former-north-carolina-basketball-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes


Now with what the NCAA did to UAF, how in the hell can they let that 2005 Championship stand? McCants himself says he most likely would not have been eligible to play during the 2005 Season without the help of the paper classes and tutors writing papers for him.

Can someone tell me some scenario that UNC is able to hold on to that 2005 Championship with McCants publicly telling multiple media outlets this information and more? It seems to me like he would be the NCAA's first witness in this entire mess. Hell, go ahead and give them one punishment right now and take that 2005 Championship away. Then proceed with your long as fuck investigation about everything else. Give us some love NCAA and drop dem banner/s!

11/7/2014 3:41:57 PM

An easy excuse here would be to say that McCants loves attention and doesn't care about burning bridges or causing controversy to do it. The argument is somewhat fair because both of those things are known to be very true about McCants.

That doesn't mean the things he said aren't true, though. It also requires UNC to distance themselves from one of their own (nothing new, they've offered similar sacrifices in this series of probes . . . albeit none of them basketball yet).

The one thing they have going for them is that the McCants confessional occurred before the latest report so its still somewhat seen as old news. The new report lends slightly more credibility to McCants (definitely needed due to his serial controversy nature), but dollars-to-donuts its not taken into account in any punishment decisions.

11/7/2014 4:04:27 PM

They can claim everything he said is not true except the fact he says he took paper classes and had paper written for him and like you said, this was before the Wainstein report. So take away all the shit about Roy and everything, however you are still left with a National Championship player saying he took bullshit classes. Now why would any self respectable player/graduate/etc make that up? Also McCants could prove his claims correct? He (and the school) should have his papers and his transcript showing the classes he took and his grades. If he has D's or F's in legit classes and then has the other half showing B's and A's, obviously the guy is telling the truth. I can't see how just because he is a dumbass his testimony is invalid. We all know the guy is a dumbass and UNC even knew it, but UNC is who played him for the ring...

11/7/2014 4:18:01 PM

No reason to analyze vacating an NCAA championship. It's never been done in hoops and it cannot be anticipated until a precedent is set, stone cold facts notwithstanding. There have been countless final four and runner up finishes vacated, but not the big one in hoops. UNC getting tourney/bowl bans is more than likely (regardless of banners coming down) as it will have no impact on future tourney revenue.

Somebody mentioned the integrity of the NCAA tournament taking a hit if titles are vacated. Spot on. However, the NCAA is in a tough spot and I just don't know if they can lay down, but again, never been done and certainly cannot even be remotely anticipated in UNC's case. We will see, probably take 6 months though one way or the other. Wainstein Report is certainly a treasure map to the scene of the crimes and has many finger prints of some high up folks (not just the scrubs they already threw under the bus by name).

^, with regards to McCants, even excluding Spring 2005, he doesn't really need but one or two of his prior classes to be ruled a sham to make him ineligible for Spring 2005. He was borderline much of his time at UNC.

[Edited on November 7, 2014 at 5:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/7/2014 4:58:36 PM

Yes a NCAA Championship has never been taken away, but we also have never had a team with a NCAA Championship involved in a 2 decade academic scandal spanning across all sports.

Whatever the NCAA decides, it should be something we have never seen before (unless it is the SMU "Death Penalty"). I recommend anyone with Netflix watching these two ESPN 30 for 30 films: "Pony Excess" and "The Fab Five"

Those two films show us what has happened in the past with the NCAA and in the case of Michigan (who went to the Championship game 2 times during the 2 years of the Fab 5 (3 if you don't count Webber leaving)) they could have easily lost a Championship, especially in 1993 when Webber called a TO with none left.

Everything about this at UNC is unprecedented, as should be the punishment. Michigan is the closest thing we have ever seen to this and that was ONE player on the team and it was never even proven after grand jury testimony.

Now SMU shows what happens when you continue to break the rules after you have been caught. I really think paying players to come to your college isn't as bad as cheating them through for 4 years and winning National Titles in the process. SMU wasn't able to play for a National Title in 1981, much like our Basketball team in 1973, by far the best, but not able to play in post season. Then SMU played Pitt in the Cotton Bowl winning 7-3. The thing about College Football back then is there was no National Title that was recognized by the NCAA, a lot of schools just went off AP/Coaches polls at the end of the post season and said number 1 was the champion.

But all I am saying is those two films are highly relevant to UNC due to what happened to those schools and what they did to receive those punishments. The death penalty will probably never be used again after SMU because it destroyed that football program all together for 20 years with a 2 year ban.

However this is pretty much a perfect storm for UNC/NCAA due to the fact scholarships are now going to the Supreme Court and they want to base it off of number of fans in the stadium or whatever. The NCAA is under a lot of heat right now and it is very likely they will make an example out of UNC and hand them a punishment many would not have expected. It will not surprise me to see two banners fall, for sure 2005.

If the NCAA lets UNC off lightly on this, it could be the end of the NCAA after the Supreme Court case and many colleges pushing to change the student athlete model. The only chance UNC has is to hide behind all of that and hope some of this is forgotten, but I think these other matters will put a magnifying glass on the NCAA.

11/7/2014 5:39:15 PM

Quote :

"Somebody mentioned the integrity of the NCAA tournament taking a hit if titles are vacated. Spot on."

That's ridiculous. If anything, allowing teams that obviously and willfully cheated to keep their titles is more damaging to the prestige and integrity of an NCAA title than letting those teams keep them. The idea that the NCAA can't punish UNC without making themselves look bad is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They make themselves look bad for NOT punishing UNC.

11/7/2014 5:52:08 PM

^ I agree with that 100% and that is what I thought on the subject also.

11/7/2014 5:54:36 PM

Sad thread might get sadder

11/7/2014 6:01:30 PM

Sadder for UNC. Can you imagine what is going to come out during the time the NCAA investigation is going on? Hell I bet they have to take into account new material coming to light multiple times before they hand out the punishment.

I wouldn't be surprised if this went on for a year before we hear the NCAA hit the hammer.

Just imagine if we (NCSU) had done the exact same thing, I honestly don't think we would be in the ACC anymore and we definitely would have our accreditation revoked for some of our colleges. Also I am sure they would somehow tie it to Jimmy V haha.

11/7/2014 6:12:06 PM