Quote :

"In the second half, they were getting points off of turnovers when we tried rushing it. They sort of forced us into slowing it down."

sounds to me like Billy Donovan made some sort of an adjustment as a head coach.

[Edited on January 4, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : oh page 57!]

1/4/2009 4:45:16 PM

I'll predict 6-10. And that's cautiously optimistic. We're not good.

1/4/2009 8:08:55 PM

Quote :

"dont you know some assholes on this website know more than people who get paid to follow sports?"

i will tell you right now that i, along with many other people on this site, know more about nc state sports than anyone writing blogs for espn.com.

Quote :

"you fuckers act like we're fordham or something."

nice example.

1/4/2009 9:13:43 PM

We've lost three very close games to Top25 / tournament-bound teams.

We're playing much better than last year.

Relax, it's still early.

1/4/2009 9:27:07 PM

Thanks for the pic on page 54.

1/4/2009 10:13:10 PM

Quote :

"We've lost three very close games to Top25 / tournament-bound teams. We're playing much better than last year. Relax, it's still early. "

Look, if we had played a tough out of conference schedule and we were 9-3 that would be perfectly fine, but we played an absolute garbage schedule so far and lost to all 3 good teams we've played. If you think that anyone should be impressed by beating Towson and Loyola then you are retarded. If we wanted any chance at making the tourney we needed a good non-conference win and we didn't get it, so now we would probably have to go 9-7 in the conference to make the tourney and anyone who is not a total homer would realize that is extremely improbable. I'm not saying we're terrible but we certainly aren't very good either.

1/5/2009 1:07:52 AM

you act as if you're surprised we're bad.

1/5/2009 1:15:56 AM

Sadly 9-7 won't even get us in. We need 10-6 or 9-7 with 2 ACCT wins most likely.

1/5/2009 1:17:15 AM

4-12

1/5/2009 1:34:02 AM

16-L0L

1/5/2009 11:05:37 AM

We are better than we were last year which is pretty impressive since we lost our two leading scores and didn't really get any huge recruits this year. Why did everyone have such unrealistic expectations of this year?

1/5/2009 12:27:25 PM

It's not so much unrealistic expectations, it's the fact that our losses have been so close that they were preventable

it's the fact that we were one turnover, or one or two missed FTs away from being at 11-1 or hell even 12-0 right now

as a basketball team, they've shown that they can be better than this, it's just a matter of better focus and a few nitpicky coaching decisions away from being that much better is why most of us are so frustrated

edit: and I'm definitely not one calling for Sid's head, he's having to learn awfully fast as a last resort hire with no college experience after Fowler's abysmal failure of a coaching search, it's just with two championship point guards on the coaching staff, I wish our pgs would learn how to break the press and make smarter decisions with the ball, see degand's last play, which I know probably did not go down like Sidney called it

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2009 12:37:23 PM

sid isn't out on the floor executing the plays...players gotta make plays

i lol when we are 9-3 with an average margin of loss of 3.3 points and our fans are rabid and calling for sid's head

you create your own expectations...why would anyone have high expectations for this year?

1/5/2009 12:39:44 PM

Of those 9 wins, which were noteworthy, or even against even a mediocre team?

1/5/2009 1:03:07 PM

I think everyone should be fired,

1/5/2009 1:04:41 PM

Quote :

"Of those 9 wins, which were noteworthy, or even against even a mediocre team?"

WEll, last year we lost to ECU and NO.

Quote :

"It's not so much unrealistic expectations, it's the fact that our losses have been so close that they were preventable"

So would be be less frustrated and hysterical if we just gone blown out instead?

1/5/2009 1:06:52 PM

Start from scratch! Recruit from Wake Tech!

1/5/2009 1:08:54 PM

I know we haven't beaten anyone worth noting, but we haven't had any bad losses either. I had very low expectations for this season anyway, anything better than last in the ACC is improvement.

Way too early to tell if this team is any good or not.

1/5/2009 1:14:02 PM

It would probably be less frustrating but more depressing in that we'd all just accept that our team was awful and write off another season for rebuilding/whatever other excuse we could come up with

But if we had some skilled veteran guard play I think this year's team could return to '07 ACC Tournament form and have a decent season, they're close, just not quite there yet

1/5/2009 1:14:32 PM

Quote :

"i lol when we are 9-3 with an average margin of loss of 3.3 points and our fans are rabid and calling for sid's head"

I lol when people think we are having a good year when we are ranked 180 in the RPI rankings. 9-3 against the 310th ranked schedule is like bragging about winning the MEAC conference.

1/5/2009 1:22:26 PM

Quote :

"WEll, last year we lost to ECU and NO."

Wait, what's your point? Look we didn't lose to ECU this year! We have arrived!

1/5/2009 1:28:07 PM

Pages later, same garbage. I know my last big post was a freakin' novel and all, but seriously some of you need to go back and read it.

Quote :

"If we wanted any chance at making the tourney we needed a good non-conference win and we didn't get it, so now we would probably have to go 9-7 in the conference to make the tourney and anyone who is not a total homer would realize that is extremely improbable."

Anybody who was looking for this team to go to the NCAA tourney this year was fooling themselves. I'm not trying to crush optimism here, but you're setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. Being disappointed about not going to the NCAA tourney is like being disappointed State didn't go to a bigger bowl game this year. Anyone taking a realistic view of State's football team/schedule knew that going to a bowl at all would be a small miracle. Best that we look at the basketabll team's chances the same way.

And why? B/c unless you were expecting Julius Mays to have an immediate impact this year, which few people were, then that means State was going to have to deal with the same PG problems that plagued us last year. True we get Degand back and Javi will be more experienced, but neither of the two are ACC-calibur PGs or SGs. And God forbid either gets injured, which in this case they BOTH have for various stretches. Then there's losing JJ, which is going to hurt even if his departure alleviates some of the chemistry problems. Not to mention losing Gavin Grant, whom also (for better or worse chemistry-wise) was a leading scorer and the most consistent player.


Bottom line - State fans need to stop whining about things that even a blind man would have seen coming. It's getting ridiculous. Of course we're inconsistent. Of course our offense looks bad and is at times damn near unwatchable. Of course we're going to struggle against teams with even decent guard play. WE'VE GOT THE SAME BAD PGs & SGs THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR!!!

Get over it or stop watching until next year when the next recruiting class comes in...

1/5/2009 1:38:00 PM

^ thanks for that, I'm sure nobody was aware of any of what you just wrote. The thing with our point guards is that Sidney Lowe WAS a point guard as well as Towe. Of the one position you think we'd see substantial improvement this would be the position, instead we have these guys dribbling the ball off their foot or lazy passes to the other team. We are on year three of this garbage.

1/5/2009 1:42:08 PM

^no offense, but that is a silly argument. Our pgs shouldn't make mistakes because Lowe was a PG? Seriously? If that's the case, then we should just get 5 assistants. Oee should be a former pg, one a sg, a sf, pf, and center. Then none of our players should make mistakes. We'd be unstoppable!

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 1:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2009 1:52:25 PM

^ oh really? so all of our PGs we currently have are just uncoachable, b/c it sure isn't Lowe's fault that they haven't developed?

And you are stupid if you don't believe that Lowe/Towe do not work with the PGs.. I'd be extremely pissed off if Lowe didn't try to coach the most important position on the court. And YES, Lowe being a former point guard you would think that would be the one position we could expect to be decent.

Also I said they should develop more through their tenure here, not that they shouldn't make ANY mistakes.. for fuck sakes stop reading into things.

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2009 1:56:01 PM

the fact that monte towe was a pg as a player is irrelevant. this game is not even close to the same game that he played.

1/5/2009 2:23:05 PM

Didn't Sidney and Monte play before a three-point line?

1/5/2009 2:30:09 PM

Quote :

"so all of our PGs we currently have are just uncoachable, b/c it sure isn't Lowe's fault that they haven't developed?"

Nope. I think they have developed. Javi is much better than he was at the beginning of last season. Mays has gotten better since the beginning of the season (if you went to see the early games, you'd definitely see this). And Farnold improved over last year, and he played his best game of the season against florida. The fact is, none of them have superior talent, so no matter who's coaching them, they're not going to be superior point guards. But they are develping, and I expect them to continue to develop. However, I know that'll they'll never be superior guards. I do think Mays is going to be very solid for us in the next few years.

This addresses the rest of your comments too.

1/5/2009 2:36:28 PM

Lowe did say during the post game that Degand driving the lane on our last play was not in the game plan. he said the ball was supposed to go down low and putting the ball on the floor would result in a TO and guess what happened?

Degand put the ball on the floor to drive and it got took....just like that honky took our candy the entire game

1/5/2009 2:41:50 PM

Quote :

"Anybody who was looking for this team to go to the NCAA tourney this year was fooling themselves. I'm not trying to crush optimism here, but you're setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. Being disappointed about not going to the NCAA tourney is like being disappointed State didn't go to a bigger bowl game this year. Anyone taking a realistic view of State's football team/schedule knew that going to a bowl at all would be a small miracle. Best that we look at the basketabll team's chances the same way."

I don't think anyone in their right mind would have expected us to make the tourney this year (though in no way is that an unreasonable expectation for a coach in his 3rd season at a program like State). The point I was making was, and you would have understood this had you actually read my post, that playing yourself out of the tourney in the non-conference schedule can in no way be considered a successful start to the season. And anyone acting differently is either a total homer or a retard.

Quote :

"Bottom line - State fans need to stop whining about things that even a blind man would have seen coming. It's getting ridiculous. Of course we're inconsistent. Of course our offense looks bad and is at times damn near unwatchable. Of course we're going to struggle against teams with even decent guard play. WE'VE GOT THE SAME BAD PGs & SGs THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR!!! Get over it or stop watching until next year when the next recruiting class comes in..."

here we go with the whole "we're a terrible fanbase because we expect to win" theory again.

1/5/2009 3:04:38 PM

my post from page 53 regarding guard development (stats all before the Florida game) against one of the EASIEST schedules in all of basketball:

Quote :

"Assist/Turnovers: 2007-2008 (complete season) Javi: 1/1.1 Ferg: 1/1.5 Degand: 1.5/1 2008-09 after playing one of the easiest schedules in the nation Javi: 1.3/1 Ferg: 2.2/1 Degand: 1/1.2 Now a look at the points/game: 2007-2008 (complete season) Javi with 19.7min/game: 3.8 Ferg with 11.2min/game: 3.6 Degand with 28.6min/game: 6.9 2008-09 Javi with 22.3min/game: 4.3 Ferg with 26.4min/game: 7.9 Degand with 12.6min/game: 3.4"

Ferg's assist to TO ration is the only stat where I've seen any real improvement. Expect these stats to be the same or regressed by end of season.

edit: and we're back to full circle

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2009 3:17:08 PM

^those stats don't prove anything, one way or the other.

Are you saying that javi isn't a better player than he was when he got here last year?

Are you saying that you haven't seen Mays get better than he was in the first several games this season?

Are you saying that you didn't see Degand develop last year before his injury, and had his best game this season against Florida (minus that stupid play at the end)?

1/5/2009 3:22:55 PM

like arguing with a brick wall, of course statistics are complete bullshit.

1/5/2009 4:49:05 PM

^stats are sometimes relevant, but again, those particular stats you posted do not validate your argument that none of the pgs have developed in their tenure at state.

Is actual performance bs?

1/5/2009 4:57:20 PM

you are making yourself look real stupid by saying our guards have improved from last year to this year. The only thing we gained was more depth at that position. What better statistics would you use to determine a guards improvement from year to year than Assist/TO ratio and pts/game?

Let's just throw out statistics because Bullet will decide who has improved and who hasn't.

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 5:08 PM. Reason : x]

1/5/2009 5:05:34 PM

^You do realize the assist to turnover numbers you gave us show an improvement from last year to this year, right? I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that fact. Degand is the only one who has worse numbers and he tore his fucking ACL. That must have been bad coaching. Sidney Lowe must have told him to go out there and tear his ACL to shit. Yep.

1/5/2009 5:23:12 PM

really though, his acl has nothing to do w/ him throwing the ball away.

he's just terrible.

1/5/2009 5:24:32 PM

i dont think hes terrible. he is just trying to do things he used to be able to do...and isnt back to where he was when he could do those things.

1/5/2009 5:35:33 PM

used to be able to do? you're talking about a kid who was redshirted at iowa state to develop. he's just not good.

1/5/2009 5:49:37 PM

true, but wasnt that more about weight than anything?

1/5/2009 5:50:54 PM

yeah, and the reason he didn't have any bigtime offers out of hs is b/c boston is so underrecruited.

1/5/2009 5:52:22 PM

Quote :

"The point I was making was, and you would have understood this had you actually read my post, that playing yourself out of the tourney in the non-conference schedule can in no way be considered a successful start to the season. And anyone acting differently is either a total homer or a retard. "

Point taken, but I re-read your post and no I didn't get that impression.

Additionally, State lost to Davidson on the road, Florida on the road, and Marquette at home. In the case of the 1st two, I was just hoping we didn't get blown out. In the 3rd, you could argue that State was the favorite, but that's about it.

So, basically you're saying that, b/c State lost 3 games [s]bthat most sane people EXPECTED them to lose[/b], that constitutes a bad start to the season? That's an example of the delusions some of our fanbase had which set them up for the disappointment you and others are expressing.

And FTR, no I am NOT calling out our fanbase. Damn near every huge passionate fanbase is like us to one degree or another. Just look at how Fulmer and Tuberville got yanked mainly to appease their respective fanbases. No we are not the only ones pulling this kind of crap... not by a long shot...

1/5/2009 6:15:15 PM

Quote :

"^You do realize the assist to turnover numbers you gave us show an improvement from last year to this year, right?"

You DO realize those numbers posted for this year are against terribly inferior competition, not to mention no that great of an increase? The last years numbers include ACC play, why I assume the turnover/assist ration will go down once we start ACC competition.

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 6:22 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2009 6:18:46 PM

Well shut the fuck up and wait until ACC play then.

1/5/2009 6:22:55 PM

^ good come back there, buddy

1/5/2009 6:25:37 PM

^^ gotta remember ohboyeee is just a troll and gives a bad name to those like packboozie and others who just post 80% of their shit to support their argument


dont always agree with him and some others but they usually do give a good argument to support their point.


[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .addon]

1/5/2009 6:31:32 PM

Quote :

"you are making yourself look real stupid by saying our guards have improved from last year to this year. The only thing we gained was more depth at that position. What better statistics would you use to determine a guards improvement from year to year than Assist/TO ratio and pts/game?"

I never argued that our PGs are good. They're not, and I don't expect them to ever be above average in the ACC. I started arguing your point that our guards should have shown "substantial improvement" in their short tenure at State simply because Lowe and Towe are were guards. I argued that they have shown some improvement on the court, even if their PPG and TO ratio haven't shown much improvement (which i don't think is that relevant a statistic, since those stats suck last season and this season, because our PGs just aren't that talented). And the fact that we have an addition PG would also result in less ppg's and assists for the others (and yes, less turnovers). Am I wrong?

1/5/2009 6:43:44 PM

Just stop. Think before you type. Math and logic must not be a strong suit for you

#1 Minutes per game has no bearing on assist to turnover ratio
#2 The minutes per game/ppg ratio is very similar between the two years I posted.

Quote :

"which i don't think is that relevant a statistic, since those stats suck last season and this season, because our PGs just aren't that talented"

I could just not be understanding what you are trying to say here, but Assist/Turn Over ratio is one of THE main stats used to evaluate guard play.

But this isn't going to make a difference in the way you see the state of our program and the way I see it. Jury is still out on Lowe for year three, I'm not calling for his head b/c I want to get those recruits we have already coming for next season. I'm simply critiquing his credibility as an NCAA basketball coach which this thread was created for.

[Edited on January 5, 2009 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2009 6:54:43 PM

Erios: We have played a TERRIBLY easy schedule....that's the problem. Our 9-3 OOC record is terrible when you look at who we have played. And FYI the game was not at Davidson, we had nearly as many fans there as they did. I was there.....nearly all the upper deck was NCSU.

9-3 would be ok if we had played more than 3 decent teams but we haven't. We have no chance to make the NCAAs if we go less than 10-6....that's the problem.

1/6/2009 1:15:15 AM

that problem is more or less separate from his ability as a coach, however.

1/6/2009 1:18:35 AM