^ I agree.

1/21/2009 2:59:46 PM

Quote :

"How convenient that Hansen's claims of "imminent peril" are timed with the U.S. presidential election cycle. "

yeah, or maybe it's because if something is trending upwards, you can bet that it will be higher in 4 years than it is now. you think?

1/21/2009 4:07:13 PM

^ If this alleged peril is truly "imminent," why wait four years? And what exactly can we do in only four years that will "save our planet"?

1/21/2009 4:10:49 PM

who said anything about:
1) waiting 4 years to do anything, or
2) fixing all the problems in the next 4 years?

1/21/2009 4:46:18 PM

^ Are we in "imminent peril"? Yes or no?

1/21/2009 4:52:25 PM

Hey hooksaw did you see Mann's new study stating that Antartica is getting warmer.

Oh dear, another guy who's lied profusely in the past in the name of AGW.

1/22/2009 12:03:23 AM

^ Yeah, they've hauled out the "hockey stick" again, too.

Quote :

"For the past 10 years, climate-change skeptics have been calling the hockey stick bogus. Now the scientists who studied the climate record and produced the original hockey-stick graph have done a new study using more data from more sources — and they got the same pattern."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/52370.html

1/22/2009 6:51:20 AM

^ haha, seems quite likely they got another hockey-stick. The fucking model gives you one 05% of the time, no matter WHAT you plug into it.

Study: West Antarctic Melt a Slow Affair

Quote :

"Over all, the loss of the West Antarctic ice from warming is appearing “more likely a definite thing to worry about on a thousand-year time scale but not a hundred years,” Dr. Pollard said."

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/study-west-antarctic-melt-a-slow-affair/

how convenient

3/28/2009 9:45:05 PM

The rest of the post, if anyone cares to read it:

Quote :

"Several independent specialists on ice sheets and climate said it was premature to conclude from this simulation that fast-paced ice loss from Antarctica was not possible. Eric Rignot of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory cautioned that the new findings were based on a single, fairly simple simulation and said that while the results matched well with the seabed evidence, they lacked the precision needed to know what will happen over short periods. “This new study illustrates once more that the collapse of West Antarctica and parts of East Antarctica is not a myth,” he said. “It happened many times before when the Earth was as warm as it is about to be. In terms of time scales, I do not think the results of this study are relevant to what will be happening in the next 100 years and beyond. The problem is far more complex. But this is a step forward.”"

3/29/2009 12:09:21 AM

Quote :

"It happened many times before when the Earth was as warm as it is about to be. "

I wonder if it was "caused" by humans last time too.

3/29/2009 6:20:28 PM

^ I "bet" it "probably" wasn't.

3/29/2009 7:24:16 PM

Excerpts from a memo prepared by members of the Obama administration and other related remarks:

Quote :

"'I received a memo this morning, that's marked 'Deliberative: Attorney-Client Privilege'. In this memo Counsel for the White House repeatedly, repeatedly suggests a lack of scientific support for this proposed finding. This is a smoking gun, saying that your findings were political and not scientific', Barrasso said. The EPA has failed to release the memo and has ignored the advice. The nine-page White House memo undermines the EPA's reasoning for a proposed finding that greenhouse gases are a danger to public health. 'This misuse of the Clean Air Act will be a trigger for overwhelming regulation and lawsuits based on gases emitted from cars, schools, hospitals and small business. This will affect any number of other sources, including lawn mowers, snowmobiles and farms. This will be a disaster for the small businesses that drive America,' Barrasso said. Quoting from the memo to the EPA, Barrasso said that, 'making the decision to regulate carbon dioxide under the Clean Air Act for the first time is likely to have serious economic consequences for regulated entities throughout the US economy, including small businesses and small communities.' The memo is an amalgamation of findings from government agencies' sent from the Office of Management and Budget to the EPA. 'This smoking gun memo is in stark contrast to the official position presented by the Administration and the EPA Administrator,' Barrasso said. Despite the findings in the memo, the White House has given the EPA the green light to move ahead with regulation under the Clean Air Act."

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=35f512f9-802a-23ad-48e1-f38470333141

5/14/2009 1:10:56 AM

^So nice, it had to be posted twice! (its in the other thread).

Quote :

"Harvard University PhD candidate Monika Kopacz insists global warming scientists have a duty to lie: It is no secret that a lot of climate-change research is subject to opinion, that climate models sometimes disagree even on the signs of the future changes (e.g. drier vs. wetter future climate). The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians’ — and readers’ — attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today’s world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty. We’ve heard such admissions before, of course: Professor Stephen Schneider, global warming guru at Stanford University (said) ”we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.” "

And you gotta love crap like this from "scientists"

[Edited on May 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2009 12:56:23 PM

^ Sorry, I didn't see it.

5/14/2009 6:34:39 PM

^^ where are you getting that from?

5/14/2009 7:58:03 PM

^http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_licence_to_tell_warming_lies#54198

5/14/2009 9:54:37 PM

AL GORE WANTS ARE MONIES!!!

5/14/2009 10:34:10 PM

New Al Gore video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3B541KM3q4&feature=channel_page

Quote :

"http://www.ted.com At TED2009, Al Gore presents updated slides from around the globe to make the case that worrying climate trends are even worse than scientists predicted, and to make clear his stance on "clean coal.""

If scientists are exaggerating, apparently they're not doing it sufficiently enough for some people.

5/15/2009 10:32:55 AM

^Well, he's already been quoted as saying he thinks it's okay to exaggerate (i.e. lie) about global warming to get people more aware of it. So (and i didn't look at the link) I'm guessing that's kind of old news. I guess he doesn't believe himself though. He bought a nice place in 2005 pretty close to the water in San Fransisco.

5/15/2009 4:32:02 PM

Study Halves Prediction of Rising Seas

Quote :

"A new analysis halves longstanding projections of how much sea levels could rise if Antarctica’s massive western ice sheets fully disintegrated as a result of global warming. The flow of ice into the sea would probably raise sea levels about 10 feet rather than 20 feet, according to the analysis, published in the May 15 issue of the journal Science. The scientists also predicted that seas would rise unevenly, with an additional 1.5-foot increase in levels along the east and west coasts of North America. That is because the shift in a huge mass of ice away from the South Pole would subtly change the strength of gravity locally and the rotation of the Earth, the authors said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/science/earth/15antarctica.html

More guesswork.

5/16/2009 2:03:50 PM

Wow, scientists changing their conclusions in light of new information and analysis. They even published it in a peer-reviewed journal. Amazing.

[Edited on May 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2009 4:06:52 PM

^ Yes, it is amazing that these "undebatable" predictions that some toss around as rock-solid facts have been shown to be wrong by half, at least. Who's to say that the latest reduced sea level-rise prediction numbers aren't off by half still?

In any event, this "reduction" proves that those far-reaching climate-related predictions can be far-fetched. And here's some more for you:

Study: West Antarctic Melt a Slow Affair

Quote :

"Over all, the loss of the West Antarctic ice from warming is appearing 'more likely a definite thing to worry about on a thousand-year time scale but not a hundred years,' Dr. Pollard said."

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/study-west-antarctic-melt-a-slow-affair/



In the year 2000 3000. . . .

Arctic Sea Ice Underestimated for Weeks Due to Faulty Sensor

Quote :

"Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) – A glitch in satellite sensors caused scientists to underestimate the extent of Arctic sea ice by 500,000 square kilometers (193,000 square miles), a California- size area, the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aIe9swvOqwIY

5/17/2009 4:40:24 AM

why did ppl give up on this thread?

6/30/2009 8:51:46 AM

B/c someone decided that this dealth too much with Al Gore, instead of just global warming. So someone else made a GW thread and then this one was forgotten. Of course, 95% of what's posted in this thread is just rehashed in the other one.

Of course, why bother? None of us are climatologists so according to Socks we're not allowed to argue over evidence for one side of the other. WE're not smart enough to think it through on our own

[Edited on July 1, 2009 at 8:58 AM. Reason : k]

7/1/2009 8:57:59 AM

Quote :

"Wow, scientists changing their conclusions in light of new information and analysis. They even published it in a peer-reviewed journal. Amazing. "

hooksaw knows nothing about science and barely has a grasp of logic, how do you expect him to react?

7/1/2009 9:11:19 AM

Quote :

"Al Gore on Tuesday compared the battle against climate change with the struggle against the Nazis. The former vice president said the world lacked the political will to act and invoked the spirit of Winston Churchill by encouraging leaders to unite their nations to fight climate change. He also accused politicians around the world of exploiting ignorance about the dangers of global warming to avoid difficult decisions. Speaking at Britain's Oxford University at the Smith School World Forum on Enterprise and the Environment, sponsored by the Times of London, Gore said, "Winston Churchill aroused this nation in heroic fashion to save civilization in World War II." He added, "We have everything we need except political will, but political will is a renewable resource." Gore admitted that it was difficult to persuade the public that the threat from climate change was as urgent as the threat from Nazi Germany. "

Oh Al. I see that you're still making a fool out of yourself.

7/7/2009 2:41:19 PM

7/8/2009 7:08:04 PM

thank you, Mr Hannity, for reminding us that Chicago had a record low today. In other news from people who don't get it, Nancy Pelosi thinks that taxes can lower prices!

7/10/2009 12:31:04 AM

Murdock: The chills of Global Cooling

Quote :

"As cap-and-trade advocates tie their knickers in knots over so-called "global warming," Mother Nature refuses to cooperate. Earth's temperatures continue a chill that began 11 years ago. As global cooling accelerates, global-warmists kick, scream, and push their pet theory -- just like little kids who cover their ears and stomp their feet when older children tell them not to bother waiting up for Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. Consider how the globe cooled last month: -- June in Manhattan averaged 67.5 degrees Fahrenheit, 3.7 degrees below normal -- the coldest average since 1958. The National Weather Service stated July 1: "The last time that Central Park hit 85 in May...but not in June was back in 1903." -- In Phoenix, June's high temperatures were below 100 degrees for 15 days straight, the first such June since 1913. In California's desert, Yucca Valley's June average was 83.5, 8.5 degrees below normal. Downtown Los Angeles averaged 74.5 degrees, five below normal. -- Boston saw temperatures 4.7 degrees below normal. "This is the second coldest average high temp since 1872," veteran meteorologist and Weather Channel alumnus Joseph D'Aleo reports at Icecap.com. "It has been so cool and so cloudy that trees in northern New England are starting to show colors that normally first appear in September." Looking abroad, D'Aleo noted: "Southern Brazil had one of the coldest Junes in decades, and New Zealand has had unusual cold and snow again this year." -- New Zealand's National Climate Centre issued a June 2 press release headlined, "TEMPERATURE: LOWEST EVER FOR MAY FOR MANY AREAS, COLDER THAN NORMAL FOR ALL." -- South African officials say cold weather killed two vagrants in the Eastern Cape. Both slept outdoors June 26 and froze to death. Simmer down, global-warmists retort. These are mere anecdotes, hand-picked to make them look silly. Well, one would be foolish to challenge space-born satellites that gauge Earth's mean temperatures ---cold, hot, and average. Here again, evidence of global cooling accumulates like snow drifts. "There has been no significant global warming since 1995, no warming since 1998, and global cooling for the past few years," former U.S. Senate Environment Committee spokesman Marc Morano writes at ClimateDepot.com. Citing metrics gathered by University of Alabama, Huntsville's Dr. Roy Spencer, Morano adds: "The latest global averaged satellite temperature data for June 2009 reveal yet another drop in Earth's temperature ... Despite his dire warnings, the Earth has cooled 0.74 degrees F since former Vice President Al Gore released 'An Inconvenient Truth' in 2006." Earth's temperatures fall even as the planet spins within what global-warmists consider a thickening cloud of toxic carbon dioxide. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Laboratory at Mauna Loa, Hawaii consistently and reliably has measured CO2 for the last 50 years. CO2 concentrations have risen steadily for a half-century. For December 1958, the Laboratory reported an atmospheric CO2 concentration of 314.67 parts per million (PPM). Flash forward to December 1998, about when global cooling reappeared. CO2 already had increased to 366.87 PPM. By December 2008, CO2 had advanced to 385.54 PPM, a significant 5.088 percent growth in one decade. This capsizes the carbon-phobic global-warmist argument. For Earth's temperatures to sink while CO2 rises contradicts global warming as thoroughly as learning that firefighters can battle blazes by spraying them with gasoline. So, to defeat so-called "global warming," there is no need for the $864 billion Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill, the Kyoto Protocols, elaborate new regulations, or United Nations guidelines. Instead, let the cold times roll. It is one thing to have a national debate about a serious problem, with adults differing over which solution might work best. Reasonable people, for instance, can dispute whether growing federal involvement would heal or inflame our healthcare system's serious maladies. But as so-called "global warming" proves fictional, those who would shackle the economy with taxes and regulations to fight mythology increasingly resemble deinstitutionalized derelicts on an urban street corner, wildly swatting at their own imaginary monsters. (Deroy Murdock is a columnist with Scripps Howard News Service and a media fellow with the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace at Stanford University.)"

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/44463



[Edited on July 10, 2009 at 1:45 AM. Reason : .]

7/10/2009 1:33:37 AM

^agreed

http://www.physorg.com/news166204112.html

most of the ice now is 1st year ice. we are getting cooler ppl.

7/10/2009 2:04:47 AM

^^i think it's fitting that that article comes from the hoover institution. there's a guy who knew how to nip a problem in the bud.

7/10/2009 2:08:54 AM

^^ And Antarctic sea ice is increasing.

Scientists, Data Challenge New Antarctic 'Warming' Study

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=fc7db6ad-802a-23ad-43d1-2651eb2297d6



The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025

^ Do you ever offer anything other than attacks on sources? Do you dispute that the Earth is cooling and not warming--yes or no?

7/10/2009 2:54:03 AM

Straight from the Inhofe EPW Press Blog. Awesome. And did you even bother reading the second article? It does not support your position.

7/10/2009 4:49:11 AM

again, attacking the source and not the information. good work.

btw, the second article is effectively saying "we don't know what the fuck is going on." It certainly doesn't go against hooksaw's position.

7/10/2009 2:12:37 PM

A single year sampling has no bearing on climate change issues. Only someone who knew nothing about science or statistics would think it does.

7/10/2009 2:40:21 PM

what about a ten year sampling? Especially when the area of concern is 40 years?

or, what about 30 years with respect to a billion-year-old system?

7/10/2009 2:43:45 PM

It really depends on what you're trying to show. You could use a 10 year sample if you filter out the know seasonal, decadal, and multi-decadal signals.

The climate projections are mostly about looking for a signal against a nosiy background. I know you at least know, burro, that those plots you see are generally more than a bunch of numbers plugged in to excel. They usually have to filter out noise and other signals, as well as normalize for differences in the datasets used for varying time periods.

There's a clear change in the data following shortly after the industrial revolution that is not accounted for by the natural cycles. You aren't going to get scientists to just ignore that based on 1 year, especially one that looks like an outlier.

7/10/2009 2:49:27 PM

you ignore what I'm saying about the 10 years. I'm talking about people using 30 years of warming to claim there's a problem and then completely ignoring the following 10 years where the alleged trend is completely bucked and almost erased.

7/10/2009 4:15:53 PM

Quote :

"There's a clear change in the data following shortly after the industrial revolution that is not accounted for by the natural cycles"

nope.

7/13/2009 12:52:38 PM

yes.

7/13/2009 1:48:05 PM

no, not really. It all follows the same 60-year cycle. Sorry

7/13/2009 6:34:39 PM

there should be ~2 60 year cycles here. and i see them. but they slope upward.

7/13/2009 7:11:58 PM

i love how this thread after 58 pages of tons of graphs and explainations has come to basically

Quote :

"TKE-Teg All American 26978 Posts user info edit post Quote : "There's a clear change in the data following shortly after the industrial revolution that is not accounted for by the natural cycles" nope."

7/13/2009 7:39:21 PM

^^ sure, if you pick bogus graphs, you can show anything. That graph fails to show the fact that the 30s had similar temperatures to the late 90s, a fact that has been well established.

7/13/2009 10:13:29 PM

show me the refutation

7/13/2009 10:29:46 PM

http://www.skepticalscience.com/1934-hottest-year-on-record.htm
http://www.nowpublic.com/oops-nasa-mistaken-climate-data-1934-hottest
http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/10/10/hottest-year-1934/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBBQO5XgLQu4
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/aug/15/science/sci-temp15

need any more references?

7/13/2009 11:05:47 PM

too bad that's all united states data. do you think i'm that dumb?

7/13/2009 11:10:07 PM

too bad you posted an unlabeled graph that's full of shit anyway...

If you want to make that a world graph, then let's question how much it takes into account UHI and the loss of soviet and canadian weather stations. another source of dishonesty, maybe?

but hey, if you'll buy that the US was massively hotter than the rest of the world for that year with respect to today, then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you

7/14/2009 6:56:31 AM

Quote :

"-- South African officials say cold weather killed two vagrants in the Eastern Cape. Both slept outdoors June 26 and froze to death."

Wait, what exactly is this trying to prove? It's fucking winter in South Africa. It's like news about homeless people in NY freezing to death in december.

durrrrrrr

7/14/2009 7:50:04 AM

^agreed. Don't forget the one about the 5 children to froze to death in Peru. However it is interesting that much of Northern America is experiencing a significantly cooler summer than the last, oh 60 years.

ScubaSteve, you know what happened around 1880? The earth came out of the Little Ice Age and solar activity ramped up big time. But we can't blame it on that, we should blame it on the dirty humans instead! Just like how now the earth has been cooling for the last 10 years, we can blame that on humans too...i mean its big bad climate change.

7/14/2009 10:04:08 AM