Quote :

"Ok here is another theory. The show began and ended wit the exact same shot of jacks eye (even down to the same injury around his eye). He died in the original plane cras and the entire story of lost was a story of his internal conflict resolution. The characters represented the most important parts of Jack. Before Jack could let go he he had to resolve his internal conflictswith himself. Ther are all kinds of details which hint at this but I don't have the patience to type them in on this crap keyboard."

i think im gonna go with that one. Simple enough and makes the unresolved shit moot.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason : a]

5/25/2010 10:20:17 AM

really enjoyed the Bill Simmons/Alan Sepinwall/Chuck Klosterman podcast on this. made a lot of good points. and they all agreed the last 15 minutes were awful.

5/25/2010 10:23:23 AM

Quote :

"He died in the original plane cras and the entire story of lost was a story of his internal conflict resolution. The characters represented the most important parts of Jack. Before Jack could let go he he had to resolve his internal conflictswith himself."

LOST isn't the 2003 thriller "Identity" starring John Cusak.

Good gosh, all you people who think that Jack or everyone else died in the plane crash, how do you explain their return to the "real world" as the Oceanic Six? Jimmy Kimmel's dialouge with Jack confused a lot of people, I think. What Kimmel was saying that when we were first exposed to the "flash sideways" where Rose tells Jack, "it's ok, you can let go now," that was the exact moment that Jack died on the island.

That makes sense to me. Think of it like this, everything on-island and in the flash forward was real. At the very moment that Jack walks back to the bamboo fields and his eye closes, he dies, and that's the moment that his "soul" or whatever you want to call it enters the "flash sideways" world and he's back on the plane. It's actually kind of genius, all the flash sideways were a way to essentially spread out the finale over the entire season.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 10:23:45 AM

Quote :

"He died in the original plane cras and the entire story of lost was a story of his internal conflict resolution. The characters represented the most important parts of Jack. Before Jack could let go he he had to resolve his internal conflictswith himself. Ther are all kinds of details which hint at this but I don't have the patience to type them in on this crap keyboard."

Quote :

"It's like people weren't paying attention to what Christian said at the end. He literally said "all those people are real, everything that happened to you was real"."

5/25/2010 10:24:51 AM

^

5/25/2010 10:25:35 AM

Isn't it funny that christian asked first of Jack was real. The only way it could have been more obvios was if he had said they are as real as you. Why didn't they show any aspect of the post Jack life of the surviving characters presumably those characters went on to lead lives in the real world and may have deloped attachments more important than those of the island. Do you remember the creators joking about killing Jack in the pilot? Well in essence they did. This is seriously about the best explanation possible.

5/25/2010 10:37:27 AM

Quote :

"That makes sense to me. Think of it like this, everything on-island and in the flash forward was real. At the very moment that Jack walks back to the bamboo fields and his eye closes, he dies, and that's the moment that his "soul" or whatever you want to call it enters the "flash sideways" world and he's back on the plane. It's actually kind of genius, all the flash sideways were a way to essentially spread out the finale over the entire season."

interesting. hadn't looked at it that way.

Quote :

"Why didn't they show any aspect of the post Jack life of the surviving characters presumably those characters went on to lead lives in the real world and may have deloped attachments more important than those of the island."

because they didn't. did you not listen to what christian said?

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 10:39 AM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 10:38:29 AM

I think it would have to be a very extraordinary experience to come close to matching what happened on the Island... I mean seriously.

5/25/2010 11:11:17 AM

Christian was simply a construct of Jack just like all of the other characters of lost. Isn't interesting that the only time the characters weren't at odds with each other is when Jack was dying. All his internal conflicts were resolved even though some parts still couldn't let go (Ben). All of the characters had daddy issues which was a major theme of jacks life. Jacob and Eli represented the very base good and evil of jacks psyche yet even in the lost story they had the same source. Jacks flashbacks were also real and they show where he got the faces for the characters for this internal struggle he would go through. I could go on and on with support for this idea. Oh the white flashes where you here the jet sounds were Jack starting to regain cocoosness. Also as he was slipping further and further away the story started getting more and more disjointed skipping all over the place in time and space.

5/25/2010 11:11:42 AM

I wonder if some of you actually watched the show

Because this didn't happen

Quote :

"Isn't it funny that christian asked first of Jack was real."

5/25/2010 11:24:25 AM

Quote :

"Christian was simply a construct of Jack just like all of the other characters of lost. Isn't interesting that the only time the characters weren't at odds with each other is when Jack was dying. All his internal conflicts were resolved even though some parts still couldn't let go (Ben). All of the characters had daddy issues which was a major theme of jacks life. Jacob and Eli represented the very base good and evil of jacks psyche yet even in the lost story they had the same source. Jacks flashbacks were also real and they show where he got the faces for the characters for this internal struggle he would go through. I could go on and on with support for this idea. Oh the white flashes where you here the jet sounds were Jack starting to regain cocoosness. Also as he was slipping further and further away the story started getting more and more disjointed skipping all over the place in time and space."

Isn't it a little early in the day to be lighting up?

5/25/2010 11:25:42 AM

Ok for those of who don't like this theory according to your theory what is the island?

5/25/2010 11:30:52 AM

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : Double post lock suspend terminate]

5/25/2010 11:30:52 AM

Quote :

"Christian was simply a construct of Jack just like all of the other characters of lost. Isn't interesting that the only time the characters weren't at odds with each other is when Jack was dying. All his internal conflicts were resolved even though some parts still couldn't let go (Ben). All of the characters had daddy issues which was a major theme of jacks life. Jacob and Eli represented the very base good and evil of jacks psyche yet even in the lost story they had the same source. Jacks flashbacks were also real and they show where he got the faces for the characters for this internal struggle he would go through. I could go on and on with support for this idea. Oh the white flashes where you here the jet sounds were Jack starting to regain cocoosness. Also as he was slipping further and further away the story started getting more and more disjointed skipping all over the place in time and space."

i can't tell if this is a serious post, not only because it could be some kind of troll attempt (i hate being paranoid about that shit, but it's justifiable given the reactions to the series), but also because i don't understand how you could mistakenly type "cocoosness" instead of an actual word.

5/25/2010 11:30:57 AM

I don't have a theory on what the island is. It's everything that they showed it to be. A crazy mystical island that has some weird shit on it. The "flash-sideways" was made up bullshit and Christian explained this at the end of the series. You have to be baked if you think that the entire series was in Jack's head.

5/25/2010 11:38:28 AM

Because I am using a stupid touch keyboard. Serously think about it it resolves all kinds of issues. I think the creators purposely added some omphiscation so there could be different conclusions drawn. Probably to not upset the people who try and bring their own beliefs into it. If you really want you can have your purgatory story.

5/25/2010 11:38:45 AM

I need to go back and re-watch the entire series while taking notes before I come in here again and get completely flamed. However, there are so many red herrings and dead ends on this show I am almost assuredly going to discover that there is no one satisfying explanation as we can all see pretty clearly from the reactions to the final episode. Some explanations so far almost seem like a denial and justification coping mechanism for all of the crazy unexplained plot devices. It's retardedly brilliant.

5/25/2010 11:49:10 AM

ding ding ding

5/25/2010 11:50:23 AM

part of me thinks they had this idea for the island being purgatory and were discouraged when so many people predicted that's exactly what it was back in ~2005. And this was a way to say that everyone was still wrong, but got excersize their original idea somewhat anyway.



and then part of doesn't care much anymore. it was a great series, i enjoyed almost every minute of it and i highly enjoyed the finale. But i'm not going to over analyze it and ruin what it was for me. a great experience.

5/25/2010 11:51:33 AM

The island isn't purgatory though, neither is the place that they were

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/25/2010 11:53:02 AM

adder you're right, saying that it absolutely never existed and the entire thing was a figment of Jack's dying imagination does resolve all possible issues.

Personally, I think the show/series was much more straight forward than that. Everything that happened on the island really happened. Everything that happened in their pasts (flashbacks) was real. Everything that happened off-island, before they returned (flash-forwards) was real. And everything that happened in the flash-sideways was in some sort of manifested station before moving onto the afterlife.

I can buy some people thinking that the pre-afterlife was either collectively manifested or only manifested by Jack - he was extremely central to those flashes, the last to realize what was going on, etc. (Personally, I accept that it was created by all of them) But I have a tough time buying any explanation, that I've seen so far, that people think suggest they have always been dead, nothing on the island was real, etc.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 11:54:13 AM

So, big question that I believe nobody has asked yet.

WHY WEREN'T SCOTT AND STEVE IN THE CHURCH AT THE END!?

5/25/2010 11:56:45 AM

LOST:

Not a show for idiots.

5/25/2010 11:57:46 AM

lost:

LONGEST CON EVER

5/25/2010 12:00:51 PM

I agree with pretty much everyone in that they left it open for different interpretations on purpose. I like my answer the best because it answers so many questions and when you go back and watch previous episodes it leads to a bunch of " ah ha" moments

5/25/2010 12:01:33 PM

Quote :

"I agree with pretty much everyone in that they left it open for different interpretations on purpose. I like my answer the best because it answers so many questions and when you go back and watch previous episodes it leads to a bunch of " ah ha" moments"

i definitely like that it can be interpreted in so many different ways because it can make you appreciate the show so much more, and for that reason i hate to say anyone's ideas are straight up wrong, but some of the things you said that you use to resolve issues are just in direct conflict with what definitely did happen.

Quote :

"Isn't interesting that the only time the characters weren't at odds with each other is when Jack was dying."

i really don't understand what you mean here. everyone was basically on the same page with the same sense of urgency to stop MiB after the sub went down, and that was before jack was stabbed.

Quote :

"All his internal conflicts were resolved even though some parts still couldn't let go (Ben)"

how is ben some sort of manifestation of jack's psyche? and if part of jack couldn't let go, then jack couldn't have been able to completely let go at the end. it just doesn't make sense with christian's statement about everything being real that happened.

Quote :

"All of the characters had daddy issues which was a major theme of jacks life"

but that was one of the things that made each one of them flawed that drew them all to the island and to each other. it was a major theme in all their lives because each one of them lived it through actual experiences.

Quote :

"jacob and Eli represented the very base good and evil of jacks psyche yet even in the lost story they had the same source."

the lines between good and evil were pretty muddy with respect to jacob and MiB (not sure where you came up with eli). yeah, MiB could be viewed as evil, and i think the writers may have said as much, but jacob was far more gray. he was responsible for the deaths and suffering of a lot of people just to prove a point and to find someone to take his place and repeat a cycle that had seemed to have been occurring for possibly thousands of years. he also ignored ben, whose entire agenda fit perfectly with jacob's (protecting the island), for his entire life for no good reason. jacob was really a dick in a lot of ways, and he really wasn't a "good" character at all.

Quote :

"Jacks flashbacks were also real and they show where he got the faces for the characters for this internal struggle he would go through."

but many of the characters never had any connection with jack's past, so where would he come up with people like sayid, mr. eko, hurley, kate, etc? how can you say he just made everyone up in his mind? again, everything that happened to all of them was real.

Quote :

"Oh the white flashes where you here the jet sounds were Jack starting to regain cocoosness."

is this when sawyer, locke, miles, charlotte, faraday and juliet were skipping through time because of a real event that occurred (ben turning the donkey wheel)? and regain consciousness from what?

Quote :

"Also as he was slipping further and further away the story started getting more and more disjointed skipping all over the place in time and space."

but you just said he was regaining consciousness each time there was a flash, so how could he be slipping further and further away?

i mean if this is still what you want to tell yourself about what happened over the course of this show, that's fine. i just can't see any sort of reward or satisfaction in forming ideas that go against what positively did happen in the show and deciding everything that happened was all in jack's mind. not only is it cliche, but you're kind of slapping yourself in the face in my opinion.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 1:01 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2010 12:58:59 PM

Rat Soup may have bit into the troll bait.

5/25/2010 1:20:32 PM

yeah i was afraid of that

5/25/2010 1:21:25 PM

I'm confused how people are equating [Christian explaining exactly what the sideways-world is] to [open for interpretation].

Quote :

"Some explanations so far almost seem like a denial and justification coping mechanism for all of the crazy unexplained plot devices. It's retardedly brilliant."

We have a winnar!

5/25/2010 1:22:48 PM

oh FWIW. Bill Simmons has Alan Sepinwall, who's review link was posted above, on his podcast today. You can find it on espn.com or iTunes, but i recommend giving it a listen. Bill is actually a big lost fan and is able to keep the conversation going.

5/25/2010 1:59:39 PM

Quote :

"Personally, I think the show/series was much more straight forward than that. Everything that happened on the island really happened. Everything that happened in their pasts (flashbacks) was real. Everything that happened off-island, before they returned (flash-forwards) was real. And everything that happened in the flash-sideways was in some sort of manifested station before moving onto the afterlife. I can buy some people thinking that the pre-afterlife was either collectively manifested or only manifested by Jack - he was extremely central to those flashes, the last to realize what was going on, etc. (Personally, I accept that it was created by all of them) But I have a tough time buying any explanation, that I've seen so far, that people think suggest they have always been dead, nothing on the island was real, etc."

DING DING DING DING

5/25/2010 2:13:31 PM

why would the island be at the bottom of the ocean in this fuckshitass afterlife? why would locke have paralyzed his father? why would only kates pre-flight life be the exact same?

Quote :

"the climax of the show was when jack killed the smoke monster"

except kate killed the smoke monster in the most uneventful way. The flying punch was nice and all but that final conflict was very lame for something with 6 years of buildup.

We also have a major hole in that Jackob was killed by mib (rule?)

Proof the whole series was made up bullshit with one intent and one intent only. Drawing an audience.

5/25/2010 2:32:05 PM

I have to admit the target commercial with the boar and the barbecue sauce just might have made the entire series worth it.

5/25/2010 2:33:30 PM

I thought the keyboard one was better

5/25/2010 2:49:09 PM

The first part of the keyboard commercial was ok, the ending sucked.

5/25/2010 2:54:05 PM

it was funny and clever

you are neither

5/25/2010 3:01:40 PM

i liked the keyboard one better.

5/25/2010 3:03:13 PM

i think Chuck Klosterman put it perfectly


if you watched this show for the last 3 seasons and didn't like the show your opinion on the finale doesn't matter.

5/25/2010 3:03:38 PM

I was fast forwarding through most of the commercials, but I saw ^those two^ Target commercials, and also the smoke detector one. The smoke detector one made me laugh pretty hard b/c I wasn't expecting it.

5/25/2010 3:04:46 PM

The alternate universe is what they all made together...their "perfect world" so to speak. The island had to be under water in order for the events that unfolded on the island to be avoided.

"It's a place you made together"...no island = no crash = semi-normal happy lives

5/25/2010 3:09:08 PM

Quote :

"The island had to be under water in order for the events that unfolded on the island to be avoided."

right. i guess this might be obvious, but from what i remember it seemed like there were still a few things about the characters left unresolved from their time on the island, so it would appear that they set up that reality not only to find each other again, but also so they could tie up all their loose ends before moving on together.

5/25/2010 3:22:11 PM

I was really hoping Mr. Eko would show up for the last scene in the church, beating stick and all

But seriously, fuck these writers. I love this show, but I thought it was a shit finale that will leave a bitter taste in my mouth about the series as a whole. I literally would've been more content if smoke locke just wiped out the remainder of the islanders and escaped to wreak havoc on the rest of civilization.

Too many wasted eps on this bullshit flash sideways / afterlife. One was almost entirely dedicated to Jack and his nonexistent son. Maybe as a parallel to Jack / Christian's relationship but still a waste of an episode. It's like they padded the fuck out of this season with all the 'flash sideways' stuff

5/25/2010 3:46:55 PM

Quote :

"I literally would've been more content if smoke locke just wiped out the remainder of the islanders and escaped to wreak havoc on the rest of civilization."

i forget...did anyone explicitly say in an episode that he would kill everyone, or was it just that everyone would die? if it's the latter, i think the measures he would take to leave the island would inevitably destroy it and destroy the world along with it. i really need to start watching this season over again.

5/25/2010 3:56:56 PM

I agree, i didnt mind the shyamalan twist, but it was padded to hell, most likely to make it seem more important and dramatic for the sake of importance and drama.

I'm astraladvent and I approved this message.

5/25/2010 4:25:34 PM

Quote :

"We also have a major hole in that Jackob was killed by mib (rule?)"

Ben killed Jobob.

5/25/2010 4:37:19 PM

apparently MiB's name in the script was Samuel before the show heads decided to keep him nameless. speculate away.


sauce: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182505_lost_want_know_man_in_blacks_real_name.html

Quote :

"I was really hoping Mr. Eko would show up for the last scene in the church, beating stick and all"

They offered him a large sum to come to Hawaii for one scene in the finale and he demanded 5x what he was offered so they said fuck it. Dude sounds like a complete prick regarding any and everything he's ever been done with Lost.

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 4:40 PM. Reason : add]

5/25/2010 4:38:45 PM

^ Wow, it's a shame he demanded more money. Kinda sucks that the character doesn't get resolved because the actor is a prick. Sucks for the writers that they have to hear fans whining about it now when it's not their fault.

Maybe the whispers on the island are the souls of people that can't let go, but don't have a purgatory/unworld to meet other people at. Maybe Michael couldn't get to the unworld, so he had to let go by helping those still alive on the island.

Maybe Walt talked to Jacob, and that's why he seemed to know about things he shouldn't have? Maybe Jacob could take the form of other people, and that was what told Locke to get out of the grave? Maybe that would explain the instances of Christian and Charlie that appeared off-island to convince some of the 6 to return.

5/25/2010 4:59:04 PM

im saying jackob for a reason. its jack after he was like jacob. theres no reason he should've died from a mib stab. That was the rule apparently. of course you assholes when come and defend this shitty writing by saying some bullshit like "the island was ready for him"

5/25/2010 4:59:10 PM

why dont you go write a fucking drama and get back to us. or do anything creative and see how that works out for you.

shitty writing

good lord

5/25/2010 5:02:00 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the whispers on the island are the souls of people that can't let go, but don't have a purgatory/unworld to meet other people at. Maybe Michael couldn't get to the unworld, so he had to let go by helping those still alive on the island. "

that's the way Harold Perrineau (sp) explained it on the JKL aftershow. JK asked him why he wasn't at the church and though he didn't have a clear answer he toyed with the idea that perhaps those whispering souls can't escape the island and he's stuck there. works for me.

5/25/2010 5:02:39 PM