yeah those were from Rivals.

I don't know if they were trying to "select arbitrary end points to benefit their argument" as much as looking at the prior X number of years. in other words, we've had more top 100 recruits in Doeren's 2 years than in the 8 years before he arrived. he signed as many four star recruits in the last two years as we did in the five years prior. they could keep stretching back, but they're trying to make easy comparisons. TOB did get off to a good start (ratings-wise) his first couple years, so I took it less to mean that he (or Amato) couldn't recruit but more pointing out the level of talent on our roster increasing.

12/19/2014 7:01:39 PM

^^yeah i wasn't trying to call you out on being wrong or anything...i was mostly just curious about who those 4 stars were.

looking back, brandon barnes never panned out at all. he hardly even played, really. and if i'm not mistaken he was one of the best (maybe even #1) players in NC that year. definitely a disappointment there.

[Edited on December 19, 2014 at 7:03 PM. Reason : d]

12/19/2014 7:03:13 PM

Have to be happy about getting a top in-state guy. And so far, we have signed 6 of the top 13 guys in NC, which is pretty good.

And then you see that our recruiting class is still ranked #11 in the conference according to rivals. So sorry, this class is still bad. But I am sure the DD apologists will bring this up in 5 years as a reason that we cant expect to have >.500 conference record.

12/19/2014 7:53:29 PM

[Edited on December 19, 2014 at 8:15 PM. Reason : jesus christ, dude. by no metric is this a "bad" class]

12/19/2014 8:13:43 PM

Quote :

"And then you see that our recruiting class is still ranked #11 in the conference according to rivals."

The rivals class rankings are heavily skewed by the number of commitments a team has. Wake Forest, UVA and BC are ahead of us in the class rankings because they have 20+ commitments, not because they have higher rated players.

12/19/2014 8:37:54 PM

Exactly. Sort by avg * rating rookie

12/19/2014 9:30:58 PM

Also, we're #6 in the conference in terms of 4* or better recruits (at least according to Rivals):
1) FSU - 4 fives, 11 fours
2) Clemson - 2 fives, 9 fours
3) Miami - 9 fours
4) Virginia Tech - 6 fours
5) UNC - 5 fours
6) State- 4 fours
7) Virginia - 3 fours

if we were to get Frasier and Hughes, we'd jump up to #4 (tied with VT), pending the final hauls of the other schools. several of the guys currently bringing down our average seem to be under-the-radar guys, like two-star Jabari Zuniga, who supposedly was offered by Clemson after he committed to us.

12/20/2014 12:32:29 AM

recruiting rankings dont mean shit but mean even less when you play an exotic system. tbe type of guys fhat could be great in our system would probbably suck in a traditional system and thus have a very low rating. recruiting is all about finding the guys that best fit your system and not just finding the best overall talent. time will tell.

12/20/2014 1:19:16 AM

Breaking news: coaches try to find guys that fit their coaching style and philosophy. Coming up next John Madden explains how scoring more points than your opponent is the key to winning football games.

12/20/2014 7:48:26 AM

how is our system "exotic"?

12/20/2014 9:38:44 AM

our system is exotic in that we need to bring in 6 running backs when we already have 3 good ones

12/20/2014 11:25:47 AM

que

i cant imagine that being a serious criticism, but i'll bite anyway: look at
UGA -- this year they had gurley, marshall, and either #1/#2 overall RB incoming in Michel and they are lucky as fuck 4* Nick Chubb decided to commit anyway

if fluke injury shit like that can happen to Georgia, you KNOW that shit would be 10x worse here.

12/20/2014 12:11:10 PM

Quote :

"the item about 4 stars is the definition of arbitrary endpoints considering that O'Brien got ten 4 star recruits his first two years 2007 2008"

I don't think that end point was necessarily about comparing the two coaches recruiting, rather the talent level on the team for doeren's first two years versus what he's bringing in now. Those two things are obviously highly correlated, but it explains why they left out tob's first two classes since those guys would have been gone before doeren took over.

12/20/2014 12:33:50 PM

Quote :

"our system is exotic in that we need to bring in 6 running backs when we already have 3 good ones"

"need to"? Probably not. But I don't think we're exactly in the position to turn away 4 star players. Plus, ya know...we only have 2 RB commits and are targeting 1 more (Fraiser). Hughes is being recruited as an "athlete" and will likely play CB in college. Hines, as far as I know, is more of a specialty type back who will probably spend a lot of time in the slot and catching passes more than a traditional RB. Although, somebody with more knowledge may correct me on that.

And, what ^^ said.

12/20/2014 12:58:48 PM

all i know is wisconsin brings in 3* rbs and turns them into heisman candidates all the time and we're playing our best rb at fucking tight end

12/20/2014 1:16:26 PM

Wisc's OL probably has a lot to do with that. Samuels is good and needs more touches. I don't know that he's our best back (Shad is) and he's not an every down back at all.

12/20/2014 2:00:02 PM

Right now everyone is expecting us to lose in the bowl game. Considering that it is almost a home game for UCF and their strong players and smart coaches that beat a favored ECU team mixed with us not being a heavy travel team, if DD can pull this win off miraculously and not screw it up on coaching blunders then I say he gets at least two maybe three more years. If he loses (depending on how bad) we will have to see next year if he can actually coach up recruits.

Seems pretty fair.

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 12:05 AM. Reason : .]

12/24/2014 12:04:06 AM

We shpuldnt overreact either way nased on this game. Lets see what happens next year and the year after that (if next year is a winning season) before talking about his ultimate fate

12/24/2014 12:09:32 AM

Quote :

"mixed with us not being a heavy travel team"

what does that mean exactly?

12/24/2014 1:41:01 AM

Quote :

"Right now everyone is expecting us to lose in the bowl game. Considering that it is almost a home game for UCF and their strong players and smart coaches that beat a favored ECU team mixed with us not being a heavy travel team, if DD can pull this win off miraculously and not screw it up on coaching blunders then I say he gets at least two maybe three more years. If he loses (depending on how bad) we will have to see next year if he can actually coach up recruits. Seems pretty fair. "

I cringed through this entire post. He's gonna get 2-3 more years min no matter what.

12/24/2014 6:05:15 AM

This is Hines.
He is just like Anthony Barbour.
media.wral.com:1935/vod/_definst_/mp4:highschoolot/asset/content/recruiting/2013/04/03/12300095/9567-Holliday_-_Ant_Barbour_picks_NCSU-432x324-15-768.mp4/playlist.m3u8

12/24/2014 8:06:37 AM

Quote :

"Right now everyone is expecting us to lose in the bowl game. Considering that it is almost a home game for UCF and their strong players and smart coaches that beat a favored ECU team mixed with us not being a heavy travel team, "

wtf is a heavy travel team? can you please provide examples?

Quote :

"if DD can pull this win off miraculously and not screw it up on coaching blunders then I say he gets at least two maybe three more years. If he loses (depending on how bad) we will have to see next year if he can actually coach up recruits."

Dave's getting 2 more years regardless of how this game goes. Also, State winning this game wouldn't be miraculous, and DD 'coaching blundered' his way into a winning season. If that's his idea of blundering, he can blunder the fuck out of this program.

12/24/2014 8:24:47 AM

-1 for us not being a heavy travel team.

12/24/2014 8:24:55 AM

^^Not that I disagree with your point, because he really did surpass my expectation, but "winning season" and "bowl eligibility" had loads more to do with our schedule than whether DD did or didn't blunder his way into it. I'm way more confident about the program than last year (or even halfway through the season) but let's keep some perspective.

12/24/2014 8:36:20 AM

^^^ +1. I'm not sure WTF ^ is trying to say.

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 9:48 AM. Reason : VV ]

12/24/2014 9:23:42 AM

But people will remember he 7-6 or 8-5 season. Not who we played.

The year we won 10 games under chuck, we were still 4th in ACC and had weak opponents.

12/24/2014 9:24:39 AM

synapse is as unbearable as EMan

12/24/2014 9:25:51 AM

A heavy travel team means that the stadium would be filled (or we would at least sell all of our tickets before the game) and that we would be able to support the team at a 'neutral site'. This game is basically a home game for UCF, so that won't help.

12/24/2014 9:58:58 AM

I think we're a pretty good travel team in general. We've got bowl preference plenty in the past based on reputation.

A bowl game in Florida the day after christmas against a non-power 5 team isn't getting any fanbase's juices flowing though.

12/24/2014 10:03:39 AM

So we just give up against a non-P5 team that is better than us at a bowl game a few states away? To me I would be more likely to go to this game because it's going to be tough for our guys. That and we have a good chance to recruit down in Florida.

12/24/2014 10:07:09 AM

^ & ^^^ We definitely travel well to most away games but there's no way any fanbase in the ACC would have more fans there than UCF. That said, I don't know if we'll win this game but I doubt it'll be because the number of State fans in a weird baseball stadium

12/24/2014 10:18:15 AM

Quote :

"So we just give up against a non-P5 team that is better than us at a bowl game a few states away? To me I would be more likely to go to this game because it's going to be tough for our guys. That and we have a good chance to recruit down in Florida."

Who said anything about giving up? So are you going then?

I just want to make sure you're not getting on others for something you aren't doing yourself.

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 10:21 AM. Reason : .]

12/24/2014 10:20:53 AM

I can't go because I can't afford it, but there are plenty of state fans to go. I'm not getting on specific people, I'm just saying that we don't have a good traveling fanbase. The ACC in general has issues with that, but this game could have been a proving statement that we are a strong fanbase.

12/24/2014 10:23:28 AM

Quote :

"I'm just saying that we don't have a good traveling fanbase."

I'm assuming you're young because of your handle so maybe you don't have much experience with this team, but you're wrong. State rolls deep whenever we play anybody worth a damn.

Wake, BC, Duke, UVA etc are examples of teams that don't travel.

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 10:29 AM. Reason : ,,]

12/24/2014 10:28:10 AM

That's fair and I am young, but compared to other teams when they play games like this we just aren't putting up. It shouldn't take a great team and a great bowl game to get us excited. Growing up near WVU and Clemson, I just saw fan bases that would travel to the other side of the country for a 7-5 against a weak opponent.

12/24/2014 10:30:16 AM

You know what those two teams have in common?

Winning big recently

12/24/2014 10:31:54 AM

And that's also something I'm used to compared to here. They have a winning culture. That's why I've been so critical of DD, he hasn't brought that here yet.

Also: both of them have always had incredible traveling fanbases. It isn't just a recent thing.

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

12/24/2014 10:34:55 AM

this guy

12/24/2014 10:56:27 AM

^ inorite?

12/24/2014 10:57:44 AM

Winning culture is one of those sports cliches

12/24/2014 11:40:27 AM

Maybe we'd have a winning culture of we had a coach like Rich Gonzalez or a star Qb like Jeano Smith and Steve Stanton

12/24/2014 11:48:41 AM

Quote :

"I'm just saying that we don't have a good traveling fanbase. The ACC in general has issues with that, but this game could have been a proving statement that we are a strong fanbase."

We have a great traveling fanbase. The Gator Bowl, the Belk/Meineke Bowls, the Champs Sports Bowl, the Papajohns.com Bowl, The Music City Bowl.. we turned out well at these events, and our reputation for having a decent traveling fanbase has been cited as one of the reasons we get picked up.

If you'd like examples of ACC fanbases that don't travel well, please see Duke, BC, Miami, and Wake Forest. But what do you expect out of small, private universities?

Florida State is one of the best traveling fanbases in the nation.

But in terms of sheer numbers of travel-capable fans, we're not going to compete with a school of 60,000 attendees year-in and year-out like Ohio State, University of Texas, or the University of Central Florida.

That last one is our current bowl opponent, and their campus is 84 miles away from our bowl site.

We're 650 miles away and a little over half the enrollment.

12/24/2014 11:52:00 AM

State has a national reputation of being a mediocre team that wins a big game every once in a while. That is fact. Chuck had us the closest to turning the corner but then we dropped back down into mediocrity. Will it ever change? It is going to be very very tough given our proximity to other d1 schools in the state.

I'm a realist and that's the way it is. We will have a good season every now and then and maybe a great season every 10 years or so, but that's it.

12/24/2014 1:18:38 PM

That is fact!

12/24/2014 1:25:21 PM

Shh, please don't tell Baylor that

12/24/2014 1:32:40 PM

So we have an example of a single ACC team that can travel well. And I've never heard of State traveling well to bowl games or games in general that were more than a state away or big games. And it's not just schools that have 60,000 students attend, it's the schools that we are comparable to where we are failing. If it's a big game or if it is close to the state, then of course we travel well. But we have an issue of not traveling to support the team for any game like other schools do (see any, and to fit your suit look at the ones with a similar size, Pac-12, Big-10 without Maryland, Big-12, or SEC team. They all have great traveling schools and that's a reason why we will always be underrated).


[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

12/24/2014 1:50:49 PM

we should be ashamed for not traveling long distances for mediocre bowl games given our rich football history

12/24/2014 1:56:36 PM

It's whatever at this point because this school is just going to stay mediocre at pretty much every sport. I'm just going to shut up and lower my expectations to TOB levels, then I'll be satisfied.

12/24/2014 2:12:56 PM

When I was living in Boston I went to see us play at BC. I must say I was incredibly impressed with how many of our fans showed up. We have a decent alumni base in New England so that helps, but there were plenty of travelers, especially compared to the size of visiting crowds I usually saw at Carter-Finley. IIRC, Florida State and Central Florida were the only teams that brought large crowds to us while I was there. (Or maybe it was South Florida? I think both of them came to us during my time at State)

UNC always had a lot of fans in our stadium but I don't consider that "travelling"

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 2:18 PM. Reason : -]

12/24/2014 2:16:20 PM

Quote :

"And I've never heard of State traveling well "

http://www.chatsports.com/north-carolina-state-wolfpack/a/NC-States-3-Most-Likely-Bowl-Destinations-10-180-4

http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/18511/sorry-ralph-n-c-state-still-a-better-bowl-draw-than-maryland/

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/is-nc-state-ready-for-the-sec-013013

Just a few examples noting our fans travel well. It has helped us several times over the past 10-15 years get boosts in bowl consideration because of it.

12/24/2014 2:43:36 PM