Ehhh...I guess. It's fiction, I look at it as the point to building hatred for the character and then later making you question if the character is really as deserving of the hate as he seems.

Face value again, he was trying to hide his misdeeds where the author has an obvious plan and redemption journey set.

I would never condone killing an innocent person, child or adult. Pardon my awkward replies - blame it on my lack of understanding the internet.

5/1/2013 11:33:47 PM

ComputerGuy

Quote :

"blame it on my lack of understanding the internet."

lol

5/2/2013 2:46:16 AM

He's not InternetGuy

5/2/2013 8:56:06 AM

No doubt Kingslayer was scum of the earth first season. Rightfully despised by the audience. I wanted Ned Stark to kill him SOO BAD.

However, with story progression we start to see character growth, and learn of his incredibly hard upbringing under Tywinn. It's not crazy for the audience to begin to sympathize with a "villain" when they start to show human compassion as their journey unfolds. He is obviously very smart but is also a victim of sorts of his fucked up family...Brienne is bringing out a side that the viewer cannot help but see hope in. He didn't push Brand out the window for kicks..it was to preserve his family status. Not saying it was great but this show is full of instances where people do outlandish things in the name of protecting/strengthening their family title or status. Can't tell if rwoody is trolling or not . This is the perfect example of why I love this show. Constantly thinking about how I could like certain characters and despise others. Next season I may hate the ones i love now...

5/2/2013 5:55:28 PM

Quote :

"But to your point, killing a child almost always makes you evil in my book, killing a child to hide your deeds just makes it worse. Kinda weird for anyone to try to justify it."

And to your point: he did not, in fact, actually kill a child.

I mean, if Bran had listened to his mother he never would've been up there anyway

Jamie might be a douche, or a guy who's made a lot of mistakes and regrets them

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 7:59 PM. Reason : either way, I'm glad I don't paint him with such a broad brush]

5/2/2013 7:52:40 PM

Quote :

"This was an excellent episode, and had some of the best acting of the entire series. Especially Jaime's little history lesson in the bath."

I cringed at the "Help - the Kingslayer!"....."My name is Jamie" part.

Enjoyed the episode though.

5/3/2013 2:18:52 PM

some of you guys are posting opinions based on your book knowledge

5/3/2013 2:41:45 PM

At the risk of getting attacked, I will make one minor comparison between the show and the book here: the first couple books made me hate both Jaime and Theon a lot more than the show has for some reason (Theon was probably my most hated character at one point). That's not really a knock to the show, just a difference in pacing and the way it was presented.

Anyway, this season has been fantastic and they still have so many awesome plot points to fit in. Can't wait to see if the viewership continues to grow.

5/3/2013 3:23:04 PM

^ IMO, Theon might be the only character who is better/more interesting in the show than in the books. his arch in season 2 was awesome.

5/3/2013 6:13:23 PM

Agree on both counts. I hated Theon in the books. He's been easier to sympathize with in the show. Sort of. He's still a dick.

5/3/2013 7:39:16 PM

I didn't want to watch the Epic History videos that Wraith linked because I didn't want to spoil the books that have sat on my shelf for two years. I finally said fuck it and now I'll be watching every house she does lol.

5/4/2013 4:23:17 PM

Quote :

" It's not crazy for the audience to begin to sympathize with a "villain" when they start to show human compassion as their journey unfolds. He is obviously very smart but is also a victim of sorts of his fucked up family...Brienne is bringing out a side that the viewer cannot help but see hope in. He didn't push Brand out the window for kicks..it was to preserve his family status. Not saying it was great but this show is full of instances where people do outlandish things in the name of protecting/strengthening their family title or status. Can't tell if rwoody is trolling or not . This is the perfect example of why I love this show. Constantly thinking about how I could like certain characters and despise others. "

i mean i love the character of Jaime and never said otherwise. Certainly he is a very complex character and the deserving of some sympathy, but lots of horrible people deserve sympathy.

Quote :

"And to your point: he did not, in fact, actually kill a child. I mean, if Bran had listened to his mother he never would've been up there anyway Jamie might be a douche, or a guy who's made a lot of mistakes and regrets them [Edited on May 2, 2013 at 7:59 PM. Reason : either way, I'm glad I don't paint him with such a broad brush]"

First, he tried to kill Bran TWICE, whether Bran is dead or not is semantics as far as morality is concerned.

Second, i dont know about regret but he has certainly never shown remorse about trying to kill Bran, especially when he tried again to finish the job.

Finally, my characterization of Jaime as evil was after some people in this thread tried to paint him a misunderstood good guy, which is obviously false. Good/Evil is a sliding scale but Jaime easily falls on the evil side. I'd classify him as less evil than cersei but more so than the Hound.

Joffrey is really the only one painted "broad," as you say, as pure evil. Tywin is close but they have added some sympathetic traits to his character/backstory.

5/5/2013 1:38:42 PM

It's interesting you say that Jamie specifically tried to kill Bran twice, when there's only evidence he pushed him out of the window, not that he paid off the guy who actually makes the later assassination attempt

in any case, I think the scales of good and evil are a slippery slope (as you mentioned) with a lot of the characters

while you're classifying these characters as "good" or "evil," it's important to remember that people (and therefore, characters) can change

5/5/2013 4:19:28 PM

Game of Game of Thrones

http://io9.com/dragon-zach-galifianakis-plays-game-of-game-of-thrones-492169943

5/5/2013 4:47:36 PM

If our opinion of Jaime is supposed to be evolving, the show isn't doing a great job of showing that (yet, anyway). Sure, he's been nice to Brienne, but he was also nice to that cousin he was locked up with until it become personally advantageous to beat his skull in with a rock.

5/5/2013 5:12:00 PM

HOLY SHIT JOFFREY OMFG

5/5/2013 10:04:05 PM

And bc ya never know when someone is gonna die, as a show watcher only, I was seriously stressed that Jon Snow wasn't going to get the ice pick in on time. Whew!

5/5/2013 10:08:33 PM

Theon wasn't paying attention during sigil lessons, apparently.

5/5/2013 10:20:14 PM

Quote :

"not that he paid off the guy who actually makes the later assassination attempt"

true, show watcher only and they painted jamie as the culprit, guess it could have easily have been cersei

5/5/2013 10:26:51 PM

Quote :

"true, show watcher only and they painted jamie as the culprit, guess it could have easily have been cersei"

Based on tonight's episode, can't put a sloppy assassination attempt past Joffrey either.

5/5/2013 10:33:16 PM

Quote :

"Theon wasn't paying attention during sigil lessons, apparently."

I have show watcher friends and it was funny to see that they didn't know who he is either.

5/5/2013 10:35:28 PM

Quote :

"It's interesting you say that Jamie specifically tried to kill Bran twice, when there's only evidence he pushed him out of the window, not that he paid off the guy who actually makes the later assassination attempt in any case, I think the scales of good and evil are a slippery slope (as you mentioned) with a lot of the characters while you're classifying these characters as "good" or "evil," it's important to remember that people (and therefore, characters) can change"

it has already been determined in the show that Joffery was who sent the assassin to kill Bran in his bed.

5/6/2013 8:36:06 AM

^not saying you're wrong because i vaguely remember that. do you recall the scene? just curious.

5/6/2013 8:37:09 AM

I think the idea is that you can't put it past any of the Lannisters

don't remember them specifically saying who it was on the show

5/6/2013 8:54:03 AM

Quote :

"it has already been determined in the show that Joffery was who sent the assassin to kill Bran in his bed."

Yeah, pretty sure that isn't the case.

5/6/2013 8:58:14 AM

Tyrion had a pointed conversation with Cersei who admitted it without denying it. Tyrion then commented several times about how stupid it was.

Again, I am talking about the TV show. Not the books. I cannot recall if it was made as plain in the books.

5/6/2013 9:12:26 AM

I remember a conversation between Cersei and Tyrion where she implied Joffrey had ordered the Gold cloaks to kill Robert's base born children, but unsure about the other. I get my book/show storylines blurred though.

5/6/2013 9:26:02 AM

there are several references online to it..

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/4613/who-actually-sent-the-assassin-to-kill-bran

I guess it is possible that I am just remembering this from the books but I dont think so.


Obviously that link is to a website that could have a lot of spoilers.

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 10:13 AM. Reason : ...]

5/6/2013 10:09:46 AM

Quote :

"If our opinion of Jaime is supposed to be evolving, the show isn't doing a great job of showing that (yet, anyway)."

I disagree. We've also seen him be utterly defeated, humbled, sly, and revealed that he is a poor knight and kingsguard because it's impossible to uphold all the vows you have to take.

He's far from his original character - a badass who walked around doing whatever he wants.

5/6/2013 11:23:05 AM

I liked last night's episode and look forward to little finger's progression towards head mastermind. Hopefully next week's episode will have more unsullied.

5/6/2013 11:35:29 AM

Anyone else think that Joffrey is gay?

5/6/2013 12:11:40 PM

no

5/6/2013 12:14:13 PM

^^i had that inkling but now i think he's just psychotic

5/6/2013 12:24:56 PM

This episode kind of sucked, although I had just finished driving 4 hours and was dead tired from hiking all day, so maybe I was little less tolerant than usual. Still, I'm glad that director only has one episode this season.

5/6/2013 12:37:44 PM

Was there something more to the girl Joffrey killed?

She was Theon's hoe back in Winterfell, and she seemed to help Joffrey get his courage a few episodes before?

5/6/2013 1:01:28 PM

she worked for littlefinger and was also a spy for varys. littlefinger even let varys know this episode that he knew she was his spy and that he had given her to someone else to do whatever with. not sure what you mean about helping joffrey get his courage. maybe you're confusing her with margaery

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 1:13 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2013 1:04:49 PM

she was also littlefinger's assistant person up until he found out she was spying on him for varys.

5/6/2013 1:04:59 PM

the tywin/old broad scene was awesome

5/6/2013 1:06:37 PM

Yeah, while that scene never happened in the books, it was definitely the highlight of this episode. They absolutely had to put those two actors in at least one scene together.

5/6/2013 1:08:30 PM

That was a great scene.

Your grandson will marry my daughter.

Oh hell no. That bitch is old.

Your grandson is a fag

Your son and daughter are fucking each other.

If your grandson doesn't marry my daughter ill put his ass on the kings guard


When is the wedding?



So what's the dudes name that is torturing Theon?

5/6/2013 1:25:30 PM

go to the book/show comparison thread and someone will tell you. spoilers are allowed there.

5/6/2013 1:31:26 PM

Quote :

"So what's the dudes name that is torturing Theon?"

i won't post the name here, but like i said earlier in the thread, imdb has it posted on the cast list for a previous episode

5/6/2013 2:11:32 PM

Quote :

"I guess it is possible that I am just remembering this from the books"

That is exactly what you did

so thanks for spoiling it for people

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 6:51 PM. Reason : though I doubt it's that important]

5/6/2013 6:50:35 PM

i even made a thread specifically for book/show discussions, and you all still can't follow the rules

5/6/2013 7:19:34 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, while that scene never happened in the books,"

WHO

CARES


and ya the show hasn't come close to implying that Joffrey tried to have bran killed, makes zero sense in context of the TV show, so thanks again.

5/6/2013 8:25:51 PM

In the context of the TV show it makes no sense for Joffrey to kill Bran. Makes much more sense to be Cersei or Jaime. My money is on Cersei. Either way they had the most to lose and the motive to frame Tyrion to get him in trouble.

5/6/2013 8:29:17 PM

It doesn't make as much sense as Jaime or Cersei but Joffrey is showing what a psycho he is so it's not that far fetched.

5/6/2013 8:33:23 PM

Joffrey didn't do it in the books either.

5/6/2013 8:38:54 PM

Quote :

"So what's the dudes name that is torturing Theon?"

Haven't read the books or looked at any spoilers, so I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think there was a big clue in this week's episode. During Jaime and Briene's dinner with the Bolton dude you see the Bolton sigil prominently displayed throughout. It is an X that looks like it has a body or something strapped to it, reminiscent of Theon on the big wooden X. I'm guessing his torturer is some Bolton brah.

[Edited on May 7, 2013 at 9:43 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2013 9:42:54 AM

sorry, thought this was the other thread

[Edited on May 7, 2013 at 9:47 AM. Reason : .]

5/7/2013 9:46:58 AM