6

10/20/2005 12:20:05 PM

"so we'd been drinking
we were the only ones in the basement, everyone else was upstairs in the living room or passed out in their own beds, and the door was shut"





Personal Responsibility. Not excusing him, just saying that there is shared responsibility.

10/20/2005 12:24:22 PM

im saying the guy that did this to me WASNT the one i was sleeping next to/that i came with

the other guy had to go out of his way to come downstairs for that shit

it wasnt the kind of situation where anyone with any sense would feel any sort of threat. everyone there knew each other, not anyone sketchy, it was the house of the guy i was with, everyone knew i was with him, and i was fully clothed laying next to him


its not like i was sleeping off to the side by myself in next to nothing, i was in a situation where i should have been safe

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 12:27:29 PM

i hope they put her on the stand and make her look like the stupid fucking whore that she is

10/20/2005 12:27:56 PM

date rape is a myth
its always the girls fault
she shouldnt have let it happen

10/20/2005 12:28:44 PM

yeah i mean, i dont see rape or crime in general disappearing, but the fact is there are steps you can take to make yourself a less likely target, and i get the feeling a lot of college age girls are prancing around with thongs and tits hangin out, stuck in the "it wont happen to me" mindset.

i drive every day, and collissions are a fact of life if you drive a car. but i take steps to try and drive safer than everyone else, so that the one who does rearend someone, or gets rearended, isnt me.

10/20/2005 12:28:49 PM

Quote :

"but the fact is there are steps you can take to make yourself a less likely target, and i get the feeling a lot of college age girls are prancing around with thongs and tits hangin out, stuck in the "it wont happen to me" mindset."

thats what im trying to tell you guys
this shit happens to girls who DO take steps to make themself less likely a target

10/20/2005 12:30:18 PM

Quote :

"i for one have never lived in an area where my windows were prone to getting broken, or my doors jimmied."

Oh right, because that shit only happens in the projects.

Please--you miss my point. Saying shit like "get a gun" or "sleep in a more secure area" only makes you look stupid, and it makes it sound like not being raped is as simple as locking your door or wearing a burqa, and it's not.

But please, don't let me stop you from continuing to trivialize something that is emotionally and (in many cases) physically traumatic.

10/20/2005 12:30:31 PM

im not trivializing anything.

but i am going to bars and seeing girls who wear skimpy clothing, drink too much, and flirt with strangers, and go home wondering if they will be in the news the next day.

Quote :

"makes it sound like not being raped is as simple as locking your door or wearing a burqa, and it's not."

yeah i agree. but leaving your door unlocked, and wearing revelaing clothing, damn sure isnt going to make rape stop.

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2005 12:32:06 PM

Quote :

"im not trivializing anything."

Yes, you are.

10/20/2005 12:32:35 PM

Quote :

"im not trivializing anything."

Quote :

"Yes, you are."

10/20/2005 12:33:06 PM

how am i trivializing it?

10/20/2005 12:33:48 PM

someone find out the girls name and post it here

10/20/2005 12:34:17 PM

Good metaphor. The point is that if you saying you "know" people, then you need to balance whether you think you need to protect yourself from your friends or whether they are good enough people that you can trust them. If you are by yourself where people are drinking...especially a college or greek thing...then you need locked doors if you are a girl and plan on going to sleep where other drunk guys are crashing...this is just common sense and if nothing happened, then more power to you and if something did happen, then I guess you learned the hard way.


Same for this girl, as it seems. Again, I dont know all the details but from what I can tell, she was drinking (mistake #1), she went home with this guy (mistake #2), and she trusted this guy that she thought she knew (mistake #3). If you KNOW a guy, then you probably KNOW that they are a real-life Quagmire.

You don't accidentally get put in situations of date-rape. I'm not saying date-rape doesn't exist, but date-rape is definitely a shared-responsibility offense.

-Pack

10/20/2005 12:34:19 PM

Ok, I tell you what. You guys who say that there is nothing that the girls can be doing to prevent these things from happening, try to tell me how rjr, this girl in this story, and every other date-rape situation did not initialize with the girl making a fatal error or two.

No one here is saying it is all the girls fault......actually, of us who are actually discussing this logically I don't see anyone saying that. However, I do see some of you saying that this is completely the guy's fault and I think Grape and I are just trying to get the point across that there is shared responsibility.

-Pack

10/20/2005 12:36:54 PM

this poor kid is SITTING IN JAIL right now, while he is still INNOCENT

if he does get out, his name has been dragged through the fucking mud

i think the "victim" should have her name in the fucking paper too, this country is fucking ridiculous sometimes

10/20/2005 12:37:31 PM

fucking fucking fucking

10/20/2005 12:37:54 PM

Quote :

"The point is that if you saying you "know" people, then you need to balance whether you think you need to protect yourself from your friends or whether they are good enough people that you can trust them. If you are by yourself where people are drinking...especially a college or greek thing...then you need locked doors if you are a girl and plan on going to sleep where other drunk guys are crashing...this is just common sense and if nothing happened, then more power to you and if something did happen, then I guess you learned the hard way."

i didnt know him, he was a friend of the guys i knew there
one of which is a kid ive known for 10 or 11 years, whos a great fucking guy and has a sister and i know how he feels about this kinda shit, and he wouldnt be friends with the type of guy thatd do that kinda thing (they arent friends anymore)
i wasnt there by myself, i wasnt sleeping by myself

i did pretty much everything short of dead bolting myself in a room with no windows

i love how this obviously happened because of something i did




as for this chick, yea she obviously made some dumb decisions, but (if thats what happened) he shouldnt have had sex with her when she wasnt consenting

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 12:38:23 PM

she needs her name and phone number posted in this thread too

10/20/2005 12:39:59 PM

not at all. we are pointing out that you werent home, you were with strangers, and you were drunk. these dont go together to sound like the best plan in history.

10/20/2005 12:40:23 PM

There should probably be a bit of media backlash on the girl too for her part.

I don't say this because I want to see her head on a silver platter, but only because this guy is basically getting punished for being ignorant of the seriousness of things in college. Lets face it, there are a lot of kids here at State, as well as any college, who lived with mommy and daddy over their shoulder so they don't understand how serious their actions are now.

Anyway, so basically because of his ignorance of reality, he is going to get nailed for it, most likely, and this girl is going to get off scott free. If anything she will probably be hailed as a hero for being a "strong girl who got through this trialing time in stride". Bottom line: the guy will learn a VERY valuable lesson in reality and the girl will be thrown further away from it.

-Pack

10/20/2005 12:40:56 PM

Quote :

" i think the "victim" should have her name in the fucking paper too, this country is fucking ridiculous sometimes"

i mean you all have already pretty much called her a stupid slut that deserved it

10/20/2005 12:41:11 PM

ok so i wont go out, i wont hang out with people i dont know, and i wont drink - and thats some sort of assurance that ill never have anything else like that happen again? no

and like ive said before, most women are assualted by people that they KNOW

10/20/2005 12:41:37 PM

[QUOTE]i didnt know him, he was a friend of the guys i knew there[/QUOTE]

Your biggest mistake yet. You might want to stop on your case cause I started out thinking that you were a legitamite victum, but you are starting to sound like this girl in the article, minus the severity.

-Pack

10/20/2005 12:42:11 PM

Quote :

"I think Grape and I are just trying to get the point across that there is shared responsibility. "

You haven't said jack fucking shit about the guy--but you have said quite a bit about how the female in this case put herself in the situation and how it's HER fault.

It's called "blaming the victim".

10/20/2005 12:43:24 PM

how do i sound like the girl in the article?

he was a friend of a friend, and i trust that friends judgement in people
i was sleeping with the guy i was with, and this (other) kid did this shit right there

-i wasnt by myself
-i was in the home of people i knew
-it was very clear i was with that guy
-i never expressed any interest in the guy other than being polite and friendly, turned down all advances very clearly -- and im not the type of girl that wont say no so not to hurt the guys feelings, he KNEW i wasnt interested
-i was fully clothed
-the door was shut and we were by ourselves

how does that make me responsible for this other kid coming in the room and doing whatever the fuck it was he did to me

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 12:43:30 PM

Quote :

"he shouldnt have had sex with her when she wasnt consenting"

legally, being intoxicated makes you incapable of consent. im betting he did not know this. (ignorance is no excuse) but whos to say she wasnt verbally or physically consenting, and he didnt know enough to know that he should stop.

either way, his life is ruined now. i mean he learned his lesson, but what good does it do? he has nowhere to go but down.

10/20/2005 12:43:43 PM

how would you like to do 12 years in prison cause of this shit????

thats not 12 easy years either, thats 12 years locked uo with dudes with daughters thinking you raped some chick

10/20/2005 12:43:48 PM

And no one is saying not to go out and hang out with people you don't know.....just don't sleep in the same place as [/b]people who you don't who are drinking.[/b]


I mean, honestly ask yourself "does this not sound a bit sketchy?" I mean, seriouslly cause if it doesn't sound sketchy at all, then this argument is going no where and it'll just take a few more mistakes for reality to hit you I guess...

10/20/2005 12:43:49 PM

Quote :

"You haven't said jack fucking shit about the guy"

theres no need to. the gen statutes have been posted, we all know rape is wrong, theres not much to argue about the wrongness of what the guy did.

we are pointing out, from a guys perspective, things that encourage us to toe the fuzzy line between drunken hookup and rape.

10/20/2005 12:46:05 PM

Quote :

"either way, his life is ruined now."

If he's found guilty.

10/20/2005 12:46:28 PM

[QUOTE]You haven't said jack fucking shit about the guy--but you have said quite a bit about how the female in this case put herself in the situation and how it's HER fault.[/QUOTE]



I'm sorry, I figured it was a given that rape was against the law. But, if you need that said then "rape is against the law".



Now back to shared responsibility. I think its been put to bed pretty good that all these "date-rape" things start with a girl making stupid decisions. Again, not saying its all the victums fault....we havn't mentioned the guy cause you guys are doing it for us and I figured it was obvious enough that it didn't need to be mentioned. Just saying that the girl has a role to play too.


Just as it was said earlier, the insurency company (courts) shouldn't have to pay you back if you didn't exercise personal responsibility.

-Pack

PS Anyway, i got to go to Materials so you guys have fun talking in circles.

10/20/2005 12:47:16 PM

Quote :

"If he's found guilty."

bullshit!

as someone that has been charged with (and not convicted of) numerous crimes...

they see those charges, they ask you about them in job interviews. i've had a hard time with the silly shit i've been charged with. im sure a rape charge would be FAR worse

10/20/2005 12:47:39 PM

Quote :

"If he's found guilty."

nope. theres six pages of people who think Charles Bryan Davis, 19, of Clinton is a piece of shit rapist.

you gonna hire him?

you gonna let him watch your kids?

you gonna trust him to ring up your groceries?

10/20/2005 12:49:01 PM

yep, that charge stays there forever

10/20/2005 12:49:55 PM

10/20/2005 12:52:55 PM

Most likely nothing is going to happen to the guy. They probably did the rape kit and it will show that they had sex, consentual or not. Then the guy will say that it is consentual and unless he beat her up, it's his word against hers. So, if she is willing to go in front of a judge and the guy and be questioned about her sexual past, she will most likely not persue it, knowing that he most likely raped her. That's just the way it goes

10/20/2005 12:53:45 PM

OK GOOD TELL THAT TO THE NEXT PERSON TRAVIS INTERVIEWS WITH WHEN THEY ASK HIM ABOUT HIS UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS OF COMPUTERS CHARGE

10/20/2005 12:55:31 PM

Quote :

"theres no need to."

There hell there isn't!

10/20/2005 12:56:53 PM

why not? does someone here disagree that rape is wrong?

10/20/2005 12:58:23 PM

a lot of people here think that its the victims fault

10/20/2005 12:59:31 PM

what if it was a setup?

some big black guy raped him. and put the girl there. and she filed rape


damn blacks

10/20/2005 1:00:13 PM

who

10/20/2005 1:00:17 PM

Quote :

"they see those charges, they ask you about them in job interviews. i've had a hard time with the silly shit i've been charged with. im sure a rape charge would be FAR worse"

Charges stay on your record if you aren't convicted of them? Since when?

And I note, at this point, that I haven't said anything about the guy's guilt or innocence--I'm leaving that up to a jury. What I AM doing, however, is taking issue with this "blame the victim" neanderthal shit (which I've personally been through twice--I don't wish it on anyone).

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 1:01 PM. Reason : ....]

10/20/2005 1:00:19 PM

^^ that's what it sounds like to me...

10/20/2005 1:00:52 PM

Well......who that is actually contributing to the convorsation.



I mean of the "post and run" guys, they arn't listening to you anyway so whats it matter?

10/20/2005 1:01:02 PM

There are police records of every charge....convicted or not. Its just that it goes on your record as being dismissed or whatever.

10/20/2005 1:01:58 PM

Quote :

"Charges stay on your record if you aren't convicted of them? Since when?"

since forever

thats the way your fucked up legal system works.

10/20/2005 1:02:03 PM

Quote :

"There are police records of every charge....convicted or not. Its just that it goes on your record as being dismissed or whatever."

News to me--probably because I've never been asked about charges on an application. Only convictions.

10/20/2005 1:03:05 PM

Quote :

"What I AM doing, however, is taking issue with this "blame the victim" neanderthal shit."

im just waiting for someone to say that if she gets pregnant from this, its her own fault for not being on BC or making the guy use a condom - even if she was raped

10/20/2005 1:03:17 PM