The idea that Helms wasn't a racist back in the day is absurd. Dude strongly supported segregation. He helped Willis Smith out in the 1950s. White supremacy was the standard in those times. Even assuming all the many quotes attributed to him were invented by the commies, I'll still call him racist. I don't care if he personally loves everyone and believes he's done no wrong. Few people have opposed racial progress as much as Helms. That's what counts.

For further reading:

http://www.blackpressusa.com/news/Article.asp?SID=3&Title=National+News&NewsID=4342

4/28/2008 11:47:07 PM

Few people have done more for the people of NC on both a personal and political level than Jesse Helms. That counts for something.

4/29/2008 12:27:03 AM

Quote :

"sarijoul: but i am not trying to troll anyone"

lawlz

4/29/2008 12:40:40 AM

Maybe. If so, that doesn't prevent him from being a white supremacist. Indeed, plenty of racists would like to help blacks. They just want to remain pale patriarchs in the process. It's a traditional view. Things are better for everyone with whites on top and blacks who know their place.

4/29/2008 12:41:26 AM

^^^like what? his wiki page seemed pretty drab

4/29/2008 12:53:47 AM

Quote :

"Few people have done more for the people of Chicago on both a personal and spiritual level than Rev Wright. That counts for something."

-- Barack Obama

4/29/2008 12:55:15 AM

Quote :

" and you attempt to defend Wright's racism when the only ones standing by him are known for their blatant racism,"

The "only ones" standing by him? hahaha, you're delusional that helms isn't a racist, and you're delusional about who actually supports Wright...

Quote :

" and yet you can't come up with one instance of Helms being racist but even if he was,"

But even if he was? Helms has so many racist comments attributed to him, even YOU seem to know that they exist.

Quote :

" somehow he's the only one in the wrong, not you, not Wright."

Wright hasn't said things nearly as bad as Helms, and i've noted where I thought Wright has been wrong too.

Quote :

"Hmmmm, I guess if he painted his face black and burned whitey in effigy you'd be leading the chorus of We Shall Overcome..."

I can't see how someone can claim a racist like Jesse Helms is their hero, yet go on to imagine racist statements by someone else, then condemn them for those imagined statements.

more racist statements by Helms:

He may not have saluted the camera, but he didn't apparently did thank the guy for Helms helping to keep down the niggers (strange bedfellows that Helms has).

Quote :

" All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction.""

Quote :

" University of Negroes and Communists"

-- his take on UNC

Quote :

" The civil rights struggle is now no more than a political gambit leading to anarchy"

Quote :

" No intelligent Negro citizen should be insulted by a reference to this very plain fact of life [that negores are less intelligent]... Those who would undertake to solve the problem by merely spending more money, and by massive forced integration, may be doing the greatest injustice of all to the Negro"

Quote :

" King’s view of American society was thus not fundamentally different from that of CPUSA (Communist Party of America) or of other Marxists,” Helms said on the Senate floor in 1983. “While he is generally remembered today as the pioneer of civil rights for blacks and as the architect of nonviolent techniques of dissent and political agitation, his hostility to and hatred for America should be made clear"

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:00 AM. Reason : ]

4/29/2008 12:59:12 AM

Quote :

"Sputter: what's funnier than your anger is not noticing that someone is finally willing to admit that there just may be fundamental differences in people based upon their culture and race after having the exact opposite pounded into they psychie of the American public for the better part of a half century."

psyche

And why are you acting like Rev. Wright is the first person to admit to cultural differences between black folks and white folks? Hasn't everybody at one time or another acknowledged a general difference or two?

Fundamental differences? Based on race (and not culture)? I dunno about that. But cultural differences? Yeah, that's nothing new.

Sorry if you didn't know it was okay to observe and comment on cultural diversity. With a little sensitivity and honesty, you can say and ask just about anything.

4/29/2008 4:45:33 AM

1.

Quote :

"Then why did Wright feel it necessary to call Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice 'Condoskeeza'? What legitimate questions could such an ad hominem attack raise?"

2. If Wright's comments are totally cool, why has Obama denounced and disowned them?

3. Wright is supposedly a Christian. Why has Wright been provided bodyguards by Farrakhan's Nation of Islam?

Quote :

"American Urban Radio's April Ryan, confirmed that Wright's security was provided by bodyguards from Farrakhan's Nation of Islam."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/roughsketch/2008/04/obamas_pastor_reignites_race_c.html

4. Why does Wright want to hurt Obama? Wright's pop-goes-the-weasel appearances are damaging to Obama's candidacy.

Quote :

"An Associated Press-Ipsos poll released Monday suggests the Wright controversy may be hurting Obama among whites [emphasis added]. His Democratic rival Hillary Rodham Clinton is doing better than Obama among whites in head-to-head matchups with John McCain. Among white respondents, Clinton gets 43 percent to McCain's 48 percent. Obama gets 38 percent to McCain's 51 percent."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hgUWDTOaO9P4Nke2PRAb9_sTH-HAD90B92L00

5. Why does Wright feel the need to mock JFK and LBJ and criticize and damage Obama himself?

http://blogonaut-blogonaut.blogspot.com/2008/04/rev-wright-mocks-jfk-in-naacp-speech.html

6. Why are you atheists, anti-theists, and general skeptics not continually posting here about how stupid Wright and Obama are for believing--as self-described Christians--in an "invisible sky daddy"?

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 5:17 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 5:12:35 AM

^
7. Who are you talking to?

4/29/2008 5:18:15 AM

You et al, BridgetSkeeza. I mean, it's cool to call you that, right? Maybe I think it's funny.

Quote :

"Then why did Wright feel it necessary to call Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice 'Condoskeeza'? What legitimate questions could such an ad hominem attack raise?"

hooksaw

Quote :

"^He may have thought it was kind of funny. Making a lame joke doesn't mean you're not raising legitimate questions. Also, are you disagreeing with the idea that black folk's criticisms are more likely to be interpreted as anger than white folk's criticisms? Or are you strictly speaking about Rev. Wright's Condoskeeza comment? I mean, because Lius is also talking about blacks and whites in general. So when you respond to him with a comment about Wright and imply that Wright's not raising legitimate questions, it sounds like you're saying black people aren't raising legitimate questions. And could we pick a different phrase? I'm using 'raising legitimate questions' for continuity's sake. But I'm up for something different."

BridgetSkeeza

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=524225&page=1

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 5:32 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 5:31:44 AM

^I already answered your question though. You want me to answer all your questions? Are ya fucking stupid or somethin?

OKAY, HERE GOES...

NUMBER FUCKING FIVE

Quote :

"hooksaw: 5. Why does Wright feel the need to mock JFK and LBJ and criticize and damage Obama himself? http://blogonaut-blogonaut.blogspot.com/2008/04/rev-wright-mocks-jfk-in-naacp-speech.html"

Wright mocked JFK and LBJ in an effort to show how everybody can be mocked, but we manage to focus a lot of our criticisms on the way black people speak. JFK pretty much said "aoieusk" instead of "ask," and he was the president of the United States of America--a pretty good one, too. But if a black kid says "ax," it must be corrected immediately!

He could have made his point by just pointing to Bush, but Bush is a shitty president so that's not enough. He had to point to our better presidents as if to say, "Look. These people didn't speak perfect, standard English, and they were decent presidents. So how can you demand black people speak perfect, standard English and make that a condition for their success?"

As far as saying Obama's name over and over again...he was just making the point that people should understand "Hussein" is just an Arabic name that doesn't necessarily have a religion tied to it. People shouldn't assume he's Muslim just cause of his name, and folks should neither emphasize, nor shy away from, his name.




How you and those three white commentators couldn't understand his points is beyond me.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 6:06 AM. Reason : sss]

4/29/2008 6:03:12 AM

^ Fucking pathetic, BridgetSkeeza. Anyway, I just hope Reverend Wrong keeps running his big, stupid mouth and dragging Obama's candidacy down.

Go, Reverend Wrong! Go, Nader! Go, Hillary! McCain wins! Yay--well, sort of.

4/29/2008 6:15:21 AM

Okay, I've learned my lesson. I'm not going to respond to you ever again.

(The skeeza thing worked because it rhymed, by the way.)

4/29/2008 6:36:59 AM

^ Oh, goody. Promise?

So it's okay for an alleged man of the cloth to call a sitting cabinet member "Condoskeeza" from the pulpit because it rhymes?! You really should STFU.

skeeza

Quote :

"a promiscuous or unintelligent female"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skeeza

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 7:29 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 7:26:05 AM

i haven't seen the condoskeeza sermon. But I can tell you that the one that I linked last page I will stand by 100%. It was an engaging and positive speech. I would assume that he's been making the same basic speech in multiple venues this past week. It has really incensed me at the media at how it is being portrayed though. As far as the LBJ/Kennedy (John F. and Ted) pronunciation thing is concerned. He prefaced those statements by saying that no one in detroit (where he was speaking) speaks english, that they all speak some variation of american. If you want to see this bit in context, go to the third track in the youtube playlist i linked and watch from 1:00 to 4:30 (about linguistics) and see that the news media hasn't completely missed the point.

i have no allusions that wright isn't hurting the obama campaign by talking now. but that is only because ANYTHING wright says now is going to be taken as controversial even when it isn't. what really upsets me is that news media has decided to COMPLETELY disregard all reality and comb through everything that wright says for any shred of controversy. and plenty of liberal bloggers/voices don't stand up for wright, they basically say he should keep his mouth shut and know his place.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 7:49 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 7:48:21 AM

^

Quote :

"3. Wright is supposedly a Christian. Why has Wright been provided bodyguards by Farrakhan's Nation of Islam?"

4/29/2008 9:08:37 AM

i don't know. why does it matter?

4/29/2008 9:25:02 AM

Quote :

" what really upsets me is that news media has decided to COMPLETELY disregard all reality and comb through everything that wright says for any shred of controversy"

Mainstream media alarmist, only interested in ratings. News at 11.

4/29/2008 9:29:55 AM

i guess the widespread nature of the problem makes your apathy acceptable. i'm in no way new to this problem. but the horribly blatant nature of this smearing is ridiculous. there are plenty of controversial things that he has said. why bother to misrepresent things that aren't controversial?

4/29/2008 9:32:18 AM

well there are a number of reasons.
They cant play soundbites of "god damn america" 24/7 and then suddenly switch to "well, maybe this guy does have some good points". The americans smart enough to come to that opinion based on the complete speech dont watch mainstream news. The remaining majority would either have to learn something new or reject it and change the channel. Rather than take that chance, they'll continue to harp on non-issues.

Also, now that Obama has distanced himself from Wright, they want to try as hard as possible to discredit Wright so his remarks wont hurt Obama so much. Regardless of wether they actually support Obama over another candidate, the unending primary is good for business. Its in their best interests to drag it out.

4/29/2008 9:49:56 AM

It is obvious that regardless of what merits some of his greivance may or may not have, Rev. Wright is on a complete ego trip. He's trying to paint himself as the embodiement of the black church, and is loving his moment in the spotlight.

4/29/2008 10:21:32 AM

and that's why he kept quiet for the last months? you think he couldn't have been on dateline a month ago and gotten PAID? but for sure, he has some ego. but he seems to at least be trying to use his press right now to illuminate the black church to much of america who doesn't understand it.

4/29/2008 10:26:36 AM

i've changed my views on Rev. Wright. I now think he is using this opportunity to exploit this 'gaffe' into an instant black rights celebrity a la Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton.

He's doing Barack no favors and honestly I don't think he cares, this is about him. I think it's really dragging down Obama's campaign and at this point I think he'll need to cut the dead weight. He hasn't so far out of loyalty and fear of retribution of the black community but to be honest, I and many know that this is not what Obama is all about but until he gets the balls to do something about it....people will definitely and with good reason be skeptical.

I'm still an ardent supporter of his, don't get me wrong - but I can call a spade a spade (pls dont tag me with some racial pun there). It's hard for me to break out and call him out on something but I feel it needs to be said - the guy doesn't walk on water but he's still a great great candidate with a now great great problem.

I think here Obama is playing one of those prevent D's that turns into NC State Shit a la Akron a couple of years ago when they beat us on that final drive.

4/29/2008 10:36:02 AM

Quote :

"Barack Hussein Obama! Barack Hussein Obama! Barack Hussein Obama! "

-quoted from naacp event this week.


anybody know why he went off ranting his name like that?

edit: tone added for sarijoul lol

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 10:36:26 AM

did you watch the speech? it's funny how your tone changes between PM and public talk.

he was saying that arabic is not a religion, but a language. and that having an arabic name doesn't make one muslim. and he was deriding the media for using someone's name as a scare tactic.

and that picture is taken out of context too. it's him demonstrating the dancing of a black marching band, if i'm not mistaken.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 10:38:53 AM

The irony here is that Wright may be deliberately dragging Obama down and his defenders here are too stupid to realize it.

4/29/2008 10:39:29 AM

i asked a question with a quote

no tone required.

4/29/2008 10:39:59 AM

^^and i'm the troll huh?

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 10:40:08 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802102.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

Eugene Robinson Op-Ed hit the nail on the head on Rev. Wright's most recent comments.

4/29/2008 10:40:55 AM

Quote :

"How you and those three white commentators couldn't understand his points is beyond me."

Tell me about it. Those commentators were shockingly clueless.

4/29/2008 10:44:07 AM

i suppose i should listen to the press club talk. i listened to the NAACP speech in full and thought it was good and positive. i listened to the beginning of the press club talk and it seemed he was going right back into the talk he had given at the NAACP dinner. It seems that the Q&A may be where the wheels fell off with wright. i'll have to read/listen to that a little later when i get the time.

4/29/2008 10:44:20 AM

This is crazy, Sharpton is furious at Obama for 'grandstanding to white people'.

I don't know what is going on...but now Obama is being criticized for not being 'black enough'. What the fuck do people want from him? If I were him my brain would be exploding right now.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/sharpton_raps_obama_108577.htm

4/29/2008 10:49:47 AM

i'm sorry to see what seems like such a nice guy have to vent his racism and hatred towards 'rich white' powers of this nation over the alter of the obama campaign.

the sad part is that he knows that he is trying to be confrontational and hurt the racial feelings b/c he wants it to be a huge issue again. i guess we'll finally forget about this guy when gas hits 8 or 9 dollars a gallon.

4/29/2008 10:55:49 AM

1.

Quote :

"Then why did Wright feel it necessary to call Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice 'Condoskeeza'? What legitimate questions could such an ad hominem attack raise?"

2. If Wright's comments are totally cool, why has Obama denounced and disowned them?

3. Wright is supposedly a Christian. Why has Wright been provided bodyguards by Farrakhan's Nation of Islam?

Quote :

"American Urban Radio's April Ryan, confirmed that Wright's security was provided by bodyguards from Farrakhan's Nation of Islam."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/roughsketch/2008/04/obamas_pastor_reignites_race_c.html

4. Why does Wright want to hurt Obama? Wright's pop-goes-the-weasel appearances are damaging to Obama's candidacy.

Quote :

"An Associated Press-Ipsos poll released Monday suggests the Wright controversy may be hurting Obama among whites [emphasis added]. His Democratic rival Hillary Rodham Clinton is doing better than Obama among whites in head-to-head matchups with John McCain. Among white respondents, Clinton gets 43 percent to McCain's 48 percent. Obama gets 38 percent to McCain's 51 percent."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hgUWDTOaO9P4Nke2PRAb9_sTH-HAD90B92L00

5. Why does Wright feel the need to mock JFK and LBJ and criticize and damage Obama himself?

http://blogonaut-blogonaut.blogspot.com/2008/04/rev-wright-mocks-jfk-in-naacp-speech.html

6. Why are you atheists, anti-theists, and general skeptics not continually posting here about how stupid Wright and Obama are for believing--as self-described Christians--in an "invisible sky daddy"?

4/29/2008 12:15:54 PM

i guess i'm agnostic lol

4/29/2008 12:19:09 PM

Quote :

"5. Why does Wright feel the need to mock JFK and LBJ and criticize and damage Obama himself?"

he does no such thing in the naacp speech you cite. in that speech he is making the point that no one in america speaks english, they all speak american (and that varies by region as well). he further makes the point that even presidents speak in ways that aren't capital "E" English. (but of course black dialectics are often seen as wrong). of course he doesn't mention that plenty of southerners have been labeled as equally ignorant for their southern twang. but that's neither here nor there, the point he is making is that just because people speak differntly, doesn't make them right or wrong. (he made the same sorts of points about music, learning styles and worshipping)

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 12:24:03 PM

Mocking? That's such an ignorant interpretation of his words. It was obvious what his point was if you listened to the fucking speech. That's just ridiculous.

Quote :

"Wright is supposedly a Christian. Why has Wright been provided bodyguards by Farrakhan's Nation of Islam?"

So I guess it makes even less sense why Christian Blackwater "security guards" are protecting Iraqi troops in Iraq, right? Good lord, can these arguments get any dumber?


[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM. Reason : ]

4/29/2008 12:29:51 PM

this is a pretty interesting criticism of the naacp speech from a linguist's point of view:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=98#more-98

4/29/2008 12:44:50 PM

^^^ Yeah, Reverend Wrong, keep making points about JFK and LBJ--both of whom have been dead for decades. Keep flapping your stupid gums, Reverend Wrong! You're so helpful!

^^ Can you post without equivocation, douche bag? I didn't think so.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 12:47:18 PM

do you see that the point wasn't about jfk or lbj? they're just famous examples. he used ted kennedy as well. but of course you don't know that because you haven't actually watched the speech.

4/29/2008 12:50:57 PM

^ Yes, I did. And I don't give a fuck--Reverend Wrong is a giant self-aggrandizing douche bag. And all I want is for him to keep on flapping his gums.

Most of Middle America is never going to vote for anyone associated with an asshole like Reverend Wrong. And you might say, "Well, fuck those dumbasses"--and they'd probably say the same to you. The point is that Obama needs these people and they are running away from him like he's on fire because of Reverend Wrong.

You'll see.

4/29/2008 12:58:50 PM

i'm glad you speak for "middle america." what does that term even mean?

4/29/2008 1:06:29 PM

^ I don't have to speak for a group to know their position. It's simply a political generalization about a group and an area that some of you likely think of as "Dumbfuckistan."

Why don't you answer my questions? All of them.

4/29/2008 1:11:10 PM

middle america are those 150,000,000 people responsible for bush beating gore and kerry...the same people who might be responsible for mccain winning this year...they are the type of people who get offended when wright says god damn their country...might be wise to get to know that demographic since a lot of liberals tend to think that everyone thinks the exact same way as they do but if that was the case we'd probably have a democrat in the white house right now

4/29/2008 1:11:59 PM

Quote :

"1. Quote : "Then why did Wright feel it necessary to call Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice 'Condoskeeza'? What legitimate questions could such an ad hominem attack raise?""

i haven't seen that speech. i don't know. they probably don't raise any. i'm guessing he was making a joke that was in bad taste. i've seen far worse from most here from the left and the right.

Quote :

"2. If Wright's comments are totally cool, why has Obama denounced and disowned them?"

i think some of wright's comments are wrong. i particularly think the AIDS stuff is pretty ridiculous and indefensible. as far as obama goes, he has denounced them because he felt he need too. believe it or not, obama and wright are two different people who hold different beliefs.

Quote :

"3. Wright is supposedly a Christian. Why has Wright been provided bodyguards by Farrakhan's Nation of Islam? Quote : "American Urban Radio's April Ryan, confirmed that Wright's security was provided by bodyguards from Farrakhan's Nation of Islam." http://blog.washingtonpost.com/roughsketch/2008/04/obamas_pastor_reignites_race_c.html "

why does it matter where he gets bodyguards from?

Quote :

" 4. Why does Wright want to hurt Obama? Wright's pop-goes-the-weasel appearances are damaging to Obama's candidacy. Quote : "An Associated Press-Ipsos poll released Monday suggests the Wright controversy may be hurting Obama among whites [emphasis added]. His Democratic rival Hillary Rodham Clinton is doing better than Obama among whites in head-to-head matchups with John McCain. Among white respondents, Clinton gets 43 percent to McCain's 48 percent. Obama gets 38 percent to McCain's 51 percent." http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hgUWDTOaO9P4Nke2PRAb9_sTH-HAD90B92L00 "

1) is there necessary correlation here? from what i can tell, a week or so removed from the original wright stuff, obama's numbers went right back to where they were before.

2) i doubt he wants to hurt obama, but if he does then i don't know. ask him. i have now read the q&a section of the press club transcript from yesterday and can say that, aside from the AIDS stuff, his comments were fairly mild-mannered. was he a little egotistical? yes. controversial? not so much. unless of course you watch the 3-5 second clips msnbc gives you.

Quote :

"5. Why does Wright feel the need to mock JFK and LBJ and criticize and damage Obama himself? http://blogonaut-blogonaut.blogspot.com/2008/04/rev-wright-mocks-jfk-in-naacp-speech.html "

i already answered that one

Quote :

" 6. Why are you atheists, anti-theists, and general skeptics not continually posting here about how stupid Wright and Obama are for believing--as self-described Christians--in an "invisible sky daddy"?"

this one too.


happy?

4/29/2008 1:19:20 PM

^^ Exactly.

^ Blather--as usual.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 1:20:44 PM

Quote :

"middle america are those 150,000,000 people responsible for bush beating gore and kerry"

fixed that for you. it was only seven (or five) who beat gore. and they weren't "middle americans"

and did you mean 150,000?

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:22 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:23 PM. Reason : apparently i was half right the first time]

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 1:22:22 PM

4/29/2008 1:24:28 PM

anyways. we can have this discussion elsewhere. i answered your six questions. care to respond?

oh. i see you edit-responded:

Quote :

"^ Blather--as usual. "

i was actually hoping for a thoughtful response since i took the time to answer your questions

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 1:26:30 PM