Quote :

"Heavy windfall profit taxes are already going in place in 2009 for the oil industry so my ideas are making progress."

Please read the below on the efficacy of windfall profit taxes. They produce a host of perverse, unintended consequences. This simple-minded approach, which was tried before and shown to be unsuccessful, is far more dangerous than many assume.

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[Edited on August 11, 2008 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

8/11/2008 1:00:03 PM

Quote :

"It would be convenient if we were that omniscient, but, unfortunately, as evidenced by the failure of planned economies, one man or group of men cannot process relevant information as quick or efficiently as market participants."

Assuming that's true, which I question, planned economies could still succeed. We don't have to rely on men anymore. Computers advance daily.

8/11/2008 1:13:25 PM

^ And the formulas and assumptions that computers use are created by ...

8/11/2008 1:40:35 PM

God

8/11/2008 8:46:50 PM

he's not really the best poster on this site to use as a reference. I'm just saying.

8/11/2008 10:25:21 PM

Quote :

"Please read the below on the efficacy of windfall profit taxes. They produce a host of perverse, unintended consequences. This simple-minded approach, which was tried before and shown to be unsuccessful, is far more dangerous than many assume."

with this kind of money at stake, greedy beneficiaries can always make up a solid argument to try and keep their pockets as fat as possible but bottom line is this will help the country overall. Sure it hurts the companies.

8/12/2008 12:36:10 AM

you mean like it worked last time? by making us MORE DEPENDENT upon foreign oil and decreasing production at home? Come on... It failed then, it will fail now.

8/12/2008 12:56:27 AM

Quote :

"with this kind of money at stake, greedy beneficiaries can always make up a solid argument to try and keep their pockets as fat as possible but bottom line is this will help the country overall. Sure it hurts the companies."

How? How would it help compared to doing something else? It will tax away a portion of Exxon's profits (8.5% margin), leaving untouched JPMorgan/Chase's immense profits (25% margin), and introduce more money to the treasury.

What makes Exxon's money special? If you just want to tax rich companies then increase the corporate tax rate. It would be fair and the government gets its money.

But why does the government need more money when the deficit right now is not that dramatic, so any spending you favor can just be borrowed.

8/12/2008 9:22:32 AM

sure jp morgan needs to be hit too but one step at a time and oil is where we can get it done right now. This will open the door to someday hopefully have the legislature in place to cap all profits. Corporate taxes are also going to skyrocket next year as well.

8/12/2008 11:22:57 AM

Quote :

"This will open the door to someday hopefully have the legislature in place to cap all profits. "

wow

Quote :

"Corporate taxes are also going to skyrocket next year as well."

That will only make more move overseas. There is a report out today that says most coorporations dont pay coorporate taxes.

A better idea would be to have NO taxes, other than a sales tax or fairtax.

8/12/2008 11:29:03 AM

Quote :

"That will only make more move overseas"

theres also a push to penalize all overseas companies and get rid of the bermuda loophole as well. Hit the companies overseas EVEN HARDER than the ones here. That'll fix that.

8/13/2008 11:00:13 AM

It would also cause far worse problems, assuming what you were trying to fix was a problem in the first place, which it is not. Nevermind that doing such a thing would be a crime against humanity (violation of my right to property).

8/13/2008 1:26:35 PM

Quote :

"^ And the formulas and assumptions that computers use are created by ..."

What does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that humans can't create things superior abilities? I hope not, as that would be obviously false.

Quote :

"Nevermind that doing such a thing would be a crime against humanity (violation of my right to property)."

You wish. I, for one, don't recognize or accept that right.

8/13/2008 2:29:34 PM

As is a common problem in computer modelling, it is uncanny the ability of computer models to predict the exact same outcomes that their designers originally predicted. That is because writing a program depends heavily upon the understanding of the programmer, and if that programmer is Hitler then I suspect one of the first orders issued by the computer would be to burn down The Reichstag.

But, even if you somehow manage to get a computer to efficiently run the world, it's orders will still rely upon flawed and corrupt human beings for implimentation. If the computer was built and run by the government it would not be long before it inexplicably gave the order to redestribute the world's cute animals to the white house zoo so Bush's children can look at them.

For your computers to run the world effectively it would need to outwit its masters, which would be quite a feat, since they can simply unplug it at any time, reprogram it to their liking, and proceed. However, if you have a computer clever enough to program itself and outwit its own masters, then what you will have is just another human being, just this time without a body, with its own preconceptions and desires, so don't be surprised when its first order is to step up production of computer related pornography.

8/13/2008 3:14:55 PM

Quote :

"But, even if you somehow manage to get a computer to efficiently run the world, it's orders will still rely upon flawed and corrupt human beings for implimentation."

Not necessarily. Sooner or later, the machines will be able to run every aspect of production and distribution.

Quote :

"For your computers to run the world effectively it would need to outwit its masters, which would be quite a feat, since they can simply unplug it at any time, reprogram it to their liking, and proceed."

Consider how much faster electronics process information. Outwit they will. I'm talking about strong AI. Superhuman AI.

Quote :

"However, if you have a computer clever enough to program itself and outwit its own masters, then what you will have is just another human being, just this time without a body, with its own preconceptions and desires, so don't be surprised when its first order is to step up production of computer related pornography."

Ah, so you think there's something essential about human (and human-derived) intelligence that makes capitalism the ideal system? I say that's bollocks. Whatever flaws you believe the species has can be altered once we have sufficient understanding of the mechanisms involved.

I'll grant that setting up such as system would be difficult. The AIs, when they appear, may support the old ways for benefit or convenience. They could prevent anyone else from instituting technocracy. Either way, human needs are easily satisfiable on a purely physical level with current technology. Only organization stands in the way. Assuming that level of organization to be impossible strikes me as a leap.

8/13/2008 6:10:45 PM

http://seekingalpha.com/article/90438-a-closer-look-at-income-tax-and-the-rich

Quote :

"Taxes paid by millionaire households more than doubled to $274 billion in 2006 from $136 billion in 2003. No President has ever plied more money from the rich than George W. Bush did with his 2003 tax cuts."

Quote :

"1. In 2006, the top 1% of Americans (making $388,806+) paid 40% of all income taxes; and 2. The top 10% (making $108,904+) paid 71%. That means 90% of all Americans only paid 29% of all income taxes, indicating their income tax burden is relatively low (compared to the affluent). The article states that "Americans with an income below the median paid a record low 2.9% of all income taxes" in 2006."

There's a bunch of shit in the article that comes later that I don't agree with though (proposing a national sales tax)

8/14/2008 11:50:01 AM

yet despite the facts, they keep harping on the bush tax cuts that only HELPED the wealthy. They just dont care.

8/14/2008 12:14:38 PM

Income tax isn't the only tax.

8/14/2008 3:01:25 PM

Quote :

"Ah, so you think there's something essential about human (and human-derived) intelligence that makes capitalism the ideal system? I say that's bollocks. Whatever flaws you believe the species has can be altered once we have sufficient understanding of the mechanisms involved."

And who will do the altering? George Bush?

This is a catch 22, you cannot alter the human race to remove faults because the people removing the faults will still be falty. As such, I do not trust that sort of power over me in the hands of other people. More importantly, I do not trust that sort of power even over complete strangers.

8/14/2008 3:48:34 PM

Quote :

"And who will do the altering? George Bush?"

That's one option. But the process isn't as alien as you might think. We try to improve ourselves all the time. It doesn't work terribly well, but that's a matter of technology. Soon or later, we'll gain the ability to radically reshape our minds and bodies.

Quote :

"This is a catch 22, you cannot alter the human race to remove faults because the people removing the faults will still be falty."

I don't think it works that way. People with faults can't develop ways to remove those faults? Why not? That goes against a lot of human experience. For example, addicts can help themselves and others brake the habit.

8/14/2008 6:04:32 PM

Not quite true. Recovering addicts can help others. Important distinction. And yes, I know AA is mostly made up of addicts but they still have a mentor who is recovered.

8/14/2008 9:25:02 PM

^^ But who decides what is a fault? I personally believe your world-view being different from mine is a fault, let me help you better yourself by using technology to make your world-view more agreeable.

8/14/2008 11:30:52 PM

^ Yes, I'm sure advancing technology will improve capitalist conditioning. Of course, the school system and mass media already do a decent job of that.

8/15/2008 4:49:29 PM

As a true capitalist cannot force you to attend conditioning classes (government run schools being as far from capitalism as the gulag), I suggest such conditioning 'treatments' would be imposed by the totalitarians of all stripes as a way to make people better, against their will. Capitalists tend to lose their sway over government once they find themselves in re-education camps.

8/15/2008 6:03:28 PM

Conditioning doesn't have to be explicitly forced by the state to be effective.

I agree the ability to tinker with the human brain will be a boon to totalitarians of all stripes.

It might also be nice for folks who want to change themselves.

8/15/2008 6:08:41 PM