^ Rather different, I imagine.

8/20/2008 11:24:33 AM

Russia warns US of a 'response beyond diplomacy'

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92M5GM81&show_article=1

[Edited on August 20, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason : -]

8/20/2008 2:39:30 PM

http://www.thebulletin.org/content/doomsday-clock/timeline

Doomsday Clock

I think these guys are going to have to have a meeting.

8/20/2008 2:46:31 PM

^^^^^^^ Seriously, that has to be a joke. I really doubt anyone actually asked such a question seriously.

8/20/2008 3:05:19 PM

why so serious(ly)?

8/20/2008 3:31:09 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315674/

Russia cuts all ties with NATO.

8/20/2008 3:33:48 PM

They must have forgotten about Dr. Manhattan.

i've been reading too much of The Watchmen"

8/20/2008 3:36:44 PM

lulz.

emergency draft sounds about right.

8/20/2008 5:50:49 PM

Man, I love how a "cease-fire" to the russians means "keep on pillaging."

8/20/2008 6:03:21 PM

saw this yesterday and i liked it

8/21/2008 9:37:00 AM

apparently an agreement to Russia is little more than a suggestion...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/26/russia.georgia.oakley.analysis/index.html

8/26/2008 6:15:10 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html

Quote :

" SOCHI, Russia (CNN) -- Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the United States of orchestrating the conflict in Georgia to benefit one of its presidential election candidates. Russian PM Vladimir Putin has accused the U.S. of orchestrating the conflict in Georgia. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Matthew Chance in the Black Sea city of Sochi Thursday, Putin said the U.S. had encouraged Georgia to attack the autonomous region of South Ossetia. Putin told CNN his defense officials had told him it was done to benefit a presidential candidate -- Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama are competing to succeed George W. Bush -- although he presented no evidence to back it up. "U.S. citizens were indeed in the area in conflict," Putin said. "They were acting in implementing those orders doing as they were ordered, and the only one who can give such orders is their leader.""

8/28/2008 1:08:15 PM

too bad he didnt say which candidate it was helping

8/28/2008 1:10:18 PM

Leaders over there say shit like that all the time. I just wonder what percentage of Russians believe him.

8/28/2008 4:42:40 PM

Quote :

"Russian PM Vladimir Putin has accused the U.S. of orchestrating the conflict in Georgia."

the blame game is not something unique to american politicians

8/28/2008 4:47:33 PM

Quote :

"Leaders over there say shit like that all the time. I just wonder what percentage of Russians believe him."

Far to many, doesn't help that the government controls all forms of media in Russia now.

8/28/2008 4:55:02 PM

It appears Russia hasn't received the support it expected from its traditional allies. It appears that China, speaking through the SCO, has basically decided to stay neutral and not recognize the breakaway regions. Given China's interests in maintaining territorial integrity and sovereignty, particularly for uppity frontier regions populated by minorities that want to break away and have support from foreign powers, its no surprise that they're not going to throw their support behind Russian actions. Also, given the very long frontier between these two nations, any military projection by the Russians beyond their borders can't be all that comforting for the Chinese leadership.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/world/europe/29russia.html

Quote :

"DUSHANBE, Tajikistan — Russia suffered a significant setback here on Thursday, as members of a regional security group in which the Kremlin plays an important role offered little support for Moscow’s military action in Georgia. Dmitri A. Medvedev, the Russian president, arrived in this sleepy Central Asian capital for the annual summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, with hopes that the six-member group would provide the strong international backing the Kremlin has so far lacked after its incursion into Georgia. Moscow has urged other nations to follow its lead and recognize Georgia’s breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states. Instead, the organization, which also includes China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, took a neutral stance, urging Russia and Georgia to resolve their differences peacefully. “The S.C.O. states express grave concern in connection with the recent tensions around the South Ossetia issue and urge the sides to solve existing problems peacefully, through dialogue, and to make efforts facilitating reconciliation and talks,” the summit’s final joint declaration said, using the initials of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. ... The lack of consensus over Russia’s role in Georgia exposes a crucial divergence between China and Russia. The two powers, which have both enjoyed strong economic growth under authoritarian leadership, have also cooperated closely on international issues in recent years and have on occasion joined forces to limit the influence of the United States in world affairs. But China split with the Soviet Union during the cold war over control of international Communism, and the two fought a border war in 1969. Beijing, which has often stressed that its own emergence as a great power should not be viewed as posing a threat to neighbors or the outside world, shows few signs of encouraging Russia to project military power abroad. Its foreign policy continues to emphasize inviolable sovereignty of nation states and it often condemns overseas military actions by the United States."

8/28/2008 6:11:57 PM

China doesn't care about the sovereignty of other nations states, they just don't want to see a resurgent Russia.

8/28/2008 6:41:30 PM

WE HAS A NEW BOMB!

fear us!

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=50949


Air Force Staff Sgts. Michael Jackson (left) and Anthony Bagen align a 500-pound GBU-54 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition before connecting it to an F-16 Fighting Falcon at Joint Base Balad, Iraq, Aug. 14, 2008. F-16 pilots with the 77th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron used the new weapon for the first time in combat Aug. 12 against a moving enemy vehicle in Diyala province to support a combined Iraqi army and U.S. Marine Corps operation. Bagen and Jackson are deployed from Shaw Air Force Base, S.C. U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Erik Gudmundson

The GBU-54 is the Air Force's newest 500-pound precision weapon, equipped with a targeting system that uses a combination of GPS and laser guidance to accurately engage and destroy moving targets.

Quote :

"By Air Force Staff Sgt. Don Branum Special to American Forces Press Service JOINT BASE BALAD, Iraq, Aug. 28, 2008 – Coalition air forces in Iraq unleashed a new precision-guided weapon against enemy forces Aug. 12 when two F-16 Fighting Falcon pilots with the 77th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron here executed the first combat employment of a GBU-54 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition against a moving enemy vehicle in Diyala province. "This employment first represents a great step in our Air Force's ability to deliver precise effects across the spectrum of combat," Air Force Lt. Gen. Gary L. North, U.S. Air Forces Central commander, said. "The first combat employment of this weapon is the validation of the exacting hard work of an entire team of professionals who developed, tested and fielded this weapon on an extremely short timeline, based on an urgent needs request we established in the combat zone." When the GBU-54 was identified as an urgent operational need in early 2007, the Air Force completed its development and testing cycle in less than 17 months, fielding it aboard 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing aircraft in May. "We have consistently used precision-guided weapons to engage stationary threats with superb combat effects," Air Force Brig. Gen. Brian T. Bishop, 332nd AEW commander, said. "This weapon allows our combat pilots to engage a broad range of moving targets with dramatically increased capabilities, and it increases our ability to strike the enemy throughout a much, much broader engagement envelope." Teamwork in all aspects, from development to employment, was crucial, North said. "From the experts in our Air Force Materiel Command who shaped our requirements, then developed, tested and fielded the weapon, to our aircraft maintainers, our munitions airmen, and weapons loaders and everyone in between, they made the operational employment of this weapon possible,” North said. On Aug. 12, the joint terminal attack controller’s team worked with the ground unit commander to ensure all criteria were met for the weapon’s first combat delivery, the general said. “And finally, our F-16 pilot accurately and precisely delivered and guided the weapon to desired weapons effects, the disabling and destruction of an enemy vehicle and personnel," he added. (Air Force Staff Sgt. Don Branum serves in the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing Public Affairs Office.) "

8/28/2008 7:47:11 PM

Quote :

"China doesn't care about the sovereignty of other nations states, they just don't want to see a resurgent Russia."

They probably don't care about the sovereignty of other nation states, but they do care about the sovereignty of your own, and anything that even slightly sets a precedence for breaking off an area heavily populated by an ethnic minority is not good in China's book. Especially when you have two provinces ready to break off: one backed by a bunch of western NGO's and who's government in exile is hosted by your largest neighbor and the other whom foreign jihadi groups are working hard to mobilize.

8/28/2008 11:09:45 PM

Russia annexing S. Ossetia

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4635843.ece

So much for peacekeeping

8/31/2008 3:39:54 PM

Wow. Russia keeps its promises about as well as Obama. I wonder if THIS will be enough to get the pussies in Europe and NATO to actually fucking DO SOMETHING about this.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2008 4:10:18 PM

I guess this puts to rest the comparisons between S. Ossetia and Iraq or Afghanistan.

9/1/2008 10:01:39 PM

Well, we may not be going in guns blazing, but we're pretty much doing everything else we can do to irritate the Russians.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/world/europe/04cheney.html

Quote :

"U.S. to Unveil $1 Billion Aid Package to Repair Georgia The Bush administration plans to announce a $1 billion package of aid to help rebuild Georgia after its rout by Russian forces last month, administration officials said on Wednesday, as Vice President Dick Cheney arrived in the region to signal support for Georgia and other countries neighboring Russia... The aid package, which is expected to include money for rebuilding Georgia’s infrastructure and its economy, is scheduled to be detailed in Washington later on Wednesday by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the official said. President Bush is also expected to release a statement. It is not clear whether the package will include any direct military support, which officials have acknowledged they are considering. The aid package reflects an intensification of the administration’s support for Georgia, though President Bush and his senior advisors have yet to settle on any punitive actions against Russia."

9/3/2008 1:23:01 PM

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power

Here's an interesting article that asserts Russia is taking back their historical position of world superpower, as a result of us being tied up in the mid-east, and the invasion of Georgia was a long-planned part of their strategy:

Quote :

"The war in Georgia, therefore, is Russia’s public return to great power status. This is not something that just happened — it has been unfolding ever since Putin took power, and with growing intensity in the past five years. Part of it has to do with the increase of Russian power, but a great deal of it has to do with the fact that the Middle Eastern wars have left the United States off-balance and short on resources. As we have written, this conflict created a window of opportunity. The Russian goal is to use that window to assert a new reality throughout the region while the Americans are tied down elsewhere and dependent on the Russians. The war was far from a surprise; it has been building for months. But the geopolitical foundations of the war have been building since 1992. Russia has been an empire for centuries. The last 15 years or so were not the new reality, but simply an aberration that would be rectified. And now it is being rectified."

9/10/2008 5:31:58 PM

That is an old article, which was already posted in this thread I do believe.

While the article mentions Russia becoming a great power again, it isn't anything close to a superpower, because it has very little power projection beyond countries it borders, being similar to China.

9/10/2008 6:18:55 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080911/wl_nm/russia_venezuela_dc
Russian strategic bombers pay a visit to Venezuela

Quote :

"The visit by the Tu-160 bombers is a show of strength by newly-confident Russia at a time of tension with the United States after the war in Georgia and U.S. plans for a missile defence shield in eastern Europe. On Wednesday Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said the planes were in the South American oil-exporting nation to strengthen military ties and counter U.S. regional influences. The bombers arrived days after Russia and Venezuela said they would conduct joint naval exercises in the Caribbean later this year involving a nuclear-powered Russian battleship."

Quote :

""I'm going to fly one of those beasts," Chavez said on Wednesday."

9/13/2008 12:36:47 PM

Let's see, I think this isn't quite believable, but I'll post it anyway:

Quote :

"Georgia: Intercepted calls prove self-defense By STEVE GUTTERMAN – 40 minutes ago TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Intercepted mobile phone calls show that Russian tanks and troops invaded before Georgia unleashed its offensive against South Ossetia, the Georgian government said Tuesday, pressing its claim that Russia was the aggressor in the war last month. The recordings released Tuesday by the Georgian government aimed to turn the tables against Moscow in the battle for the moral high ground after a five-day war that killed hundreds of people and deepened the rift between Russia and the West. Russia has always claimed that Georgia was the aggressor, saying it only responded militarily to defend Russian citizens and peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Georgia said the recordings are phone calls between two South Ossetian border guards which prove that Russian tanks and troops entered South Ossetia many hours before the Georgian offensive began late Aug. 7. The recordings were first released to The New York Times, which reported their contents Tuesday. A Georgian Interior Ministry official, Shota Utiashvili, played two of the recordings for The Associated Press and provided printed English translations from the original Ossetian. Utiashvili said the alleged intercepts show "that Russian heavy armor entered Georgia about 20 hours before the war started." "It again proves our case that Georgia's move was self-defense, rather than an unprovoked attack," he said. The recordings are purportedly intercepts of two exchanges between a South Ossetian border guard at the southern entrance to the Roki tunnel, which leads from the separatist Georgian province to Russia, with another guard at the headquarters in the South Ossetian capital. The northern tunnel entrance is in Russia. Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko dismissed the Georgian claim as "not serious." He said any major troop movements would have been easily tracked by satellites used by NATO nations. NATO's chief and ambassadors from all 26 allies were in Georgia on Tuesday, showing support for the pro-Western nation and demanding that Russia withdraw forces from Georgia in compliance with a cease-fire. "I would be grateful if they provide such satellite data to us and the entire global community, provide specific data," Nesterenko said sarcastically. "Allegations that they have eavesdropped on someone and heard something are simply not serious." According to the English translations of the recordings, in the first call, which purportedly began at 3:41 a.m. local time on Aug. 7, the South Ossetian guard at the tunnel says "they have moved armored personnel carriers out and the tunnel is full." In the next call, about 10 minutes later, the guard says that "armor and people" had emerged from the tunnel about 20 minutes earlier. Asked whether there was a lot of armor, the guard says, "Well, tanks, BMPs and those things." BMPs are armored personnel carriers. The tunnel is over 2 miles (3.7 kilometers) long. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has repeatedly said he was acting in self-defense when he ordered troops to open fire on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. He has insisted there is evidence to back up his claim, but had not previously provided any details. Utiashvili said Georgia provided the evidence to the United States and European governments and would welcome an investigation. The authenticity of the recordings could not immediately be verified. The New York Times said it had done its own independent translation of the audio files. The newspaper's translation was similar to the translation provided by Georgia, with slight differences that did not appear to change the meaning. Russia has portrayed Saakashvili as a bloodthirsty, mentally unbalanced leader who was encouraged by the United States to use force to try to regain control over South Ossetia. Western governments acknowledge that Georgia launched an offensive against the city of Tskhinvali but stress that Georgia was under increasing pressure amid growing Russian support for the separatist governments of South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. There had been frequent outbreaks of violence. "The story that has been out there is that President Saakashvili is volatile and he launched this military conflict. I think that is a gross oversimplification of what really happened," the U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker, told APTN on the sidelines of the NATO meetings Tuesday in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital. Volker indicated he had not seen the specific evidence Georgia was presenting, but said the swift movement of a large Russian force into Georgia pointed to "advance planning" and said Russia had a yearslong policy of pressuring Georgia. "No matter how we end up parsing out those few hours in the early morning of Aug. 7, Georgia was responding to a long period of Russian pressure, including violence that was going on, with shelling from South Ossetians," Volker said. "(Georgia) made the decision to go into Tskhinvali, which was the trigger the Russians were looking for to launch this pre-planned invasion." Associated Press Writer Nataliya Vasilyeva contributed to this report from Moscow."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5itefRLYb9OvXIY84r-iHHUPY_6pQD937RU9G1


tl;dr

Basically, they have some unverified evidence that shows phone calls between border guards in South Ossetia some 20 hours before the conflict began, and the guards said the tunnel was packed with traffic consisting of APC's, tanks, and troops. It shows that there was some more severe provocation before the war broke out.

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM. Reason : lol was i drunk when i made this post]

9/16/2008 10:56:18 AM

IIRC, they already admitted to acting first, no?

9/16/2008 11:10:01 AM

Who, Georgia? Well, this could prove it was a baited trap for Georgia and that Russia decided to directly, militarily interfere with Georgia to get a good excuse to go and fuck up their country and destabilize and embarrass their government. If Georgia has evidence to prove that, any assertion that they acted first sort of becomes overshadowed by the fact that the Russians were there waiting for them to slip up.

9/16/2008 11:17:34 AM

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6ff9306c-83f1-11dd-bf00-000077b07658.html

Quote :

"Russian stock market crashes, then closes... Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall. Russian shares suffered their steepest one-day fall in more than a decade on Tuesday, losing up to 20 per cent, as a sharp slide in oil prices and difficult money market conditions triggered a rush to sell . Trading was suspended on both the Micex and RTS stock exchanges as investors ignored assurances by Russian officials and a cycle of distrust set in amid liquidity fears. Margin calls forced domestic traders to liquidate positions and brokers pulled credit lines. At least one Moscow bank failed to meet payments. The rouble-denominated Micex Index closed 17.75 per cent down, the sharpest one-day drop since the August 1998 financial crisis, while the dollar-denominated RTS index closed down 11.47 per cent, its lowest lvel since January 2006. Interbank money market rates climbed to 11 per cent, their highest since a mini-banking crisis in summer 2004. Chris Weafer, chief strategist at Uralsib investment bank: “We’re in completely uncharted territory where the prevailing emotion is of fear and numbnes. No one knows where this could stop”. Alexei Kudrin, finance minister, insisted that the financial system was not in a systemic crisis but the central bank injected a record $14.16bn in one-day funds into the money market. The finance ministry also placed an additional R150bn ($5.8bn) in one-month deposits into the banking system. Konstantin Korishchenko, central bank deputy, told Russian news agencies that the bank and the finance ministry could provide a total of $117.6bn in liquidity to the banking sector. But market players said banks were ceasing to lend to second and third-tier companies and brokers were pulling credit lines. KIT Finance, big Moscow investment house confirmed rumours that it had been unable to make payment on a series of short-term loans. It said: “In connection with the fact that a series of our clients did not meet their obligations to our bank, we have not met our obligations to our counterparties. “We recognise our responsibility to our counter-parties and to the market and we are working intensively to resolve the situation.” Andrei Sharonov, managing director of Troika Dialog, a Moscow investment bank, and a former deputy economic minister, said: “This is a vicious circle,” said , . “It is a situation of total mistrust. The liquidity crisis is being caused by a crisis of confidence in which people are frightened to borrow and frightened to lend.” Shares in Russia’s biggest state-controlled banks led the slide with Sberbank, the state-controlled savings bank, closing 21.72 per cent down and VTB losing 29.26 per cent. The bank was suffered on investor fears about its securities portfolio, which makes up about 10 per cent of its assets. "

Ha ha!

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 3:17 PM. Reason : -]

9/16/2008 3:15:05 PM

Surprisingly there's not a Chechnya thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/19/human-rights-group-says-chechen-leader-forced-entire-village-to-help-find-his-lost-iphone/?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

8/20/2014 11:14:21 AM