I didn't hear this but Doug Gotlieb talked some shit today.

Quote :

"On the ESPN sponsored Doug Gotlieb show today, around 4PM, Doug made the claim that NC State University obtained both of its NCAA basketball titles by "cheating." He went on to say that if "NC State didn't cheat" that our University would have no national championships at all. He spent the rest of the show continuing to slander our University, our AD, our athletic programs, and of course our delusional fans. Just FYI. This is the world we now live in, where people can just make things up for the shock value and totally rewrite history to suit their own purposes. On the same show, he ran a quote from Andy Katz where Andy says that DY dishonored the hiring of Coach Gottfried by claiming sabotage by Gary Williams. "

4/6/2011 7:27:02 PM

guys i hate to be the one to break it to you, but that is pretty much correct.

don't get me wrong, i don't have a problem w/ it. if you're not cheating you're not trying.

also, what's more respectable: shady recruiting or stealing credit cards?

4/6/2011 8:34:44 PM

Does a recruit playing a game of pickup ball with a few assistant coaches result in a post season ban these days? Serious question.

4/6/2011 8:41:24 PM

do you really think that's the extent of what went on w/ david thompson? serious question.

4/6/2011 8:43:55 PM

Why so serious?

4/6/2011 8:46:24 PM

Do you really think we're the only program to have participated in unscrupulous recruiting activities? Serious question.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 8:48 PM. Reason : If he's gonna call out State he needs to go ahead and splooge on UCLA's parade too.]

4/6/2011 8:46:50 PM

okay i'm not going to keep on w/ this stupid fucking banter, but i've said over and over that everyone cheats. it's just a way of life in college basketball. and you act like we're the only program that's ever been put on probation. grow up man. we did our time and got our title w/ thompson, it was well worth it. don't act like a fucking crying baby whenever someone points out that it was a little shady; it totally was. who cares? calhoun just won a title and is going to have to serve a suspension next year, big fucking deal, he's not crying about it.

guys, norm sloan had to leave the fucking program. CLEARLY something was going on more than pickup games. not to mention that there has been at least one story of a guy explicitly being tried out by norm sloan and his staff.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 8:50 PM. Reason : response to the edit^: ucla didn't just hire a coach, guy.]

4/6/2011 8:50:06 PM

^we could have very well had 3 titles instead of 2.. but we did our time.. agreed, everyone does it.. doesn't make it right, but doesn't give you the right to single out and condemn one program for doing it after nearly every program has been caught at one point or another.

4/6/2011 8:53:59 PM

doug gottlieb always takes jabs, probably b/c he knows we'll flood his inbox.

so i say again, stop crying.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 9:07 PM. Reason : not you necessarily, but the fanbase in general]

4/6/2011 8:55:02 PM

Nobody is crying dude. I was trying to make a very valid point and you got your panties in a wad. The David Thompson recruiting situation, if it happened at a big time school today, would not be seen as a big deal. Shit, the dude was already committed when it happened.

Oh, and when was any level of cheating ever associated with the '83 team? I don't recall any implications for that team.

4/6/2011 8:58:37 PM

do you mean aside from the fact that that team was recruited by a guy who then had to leave the program? or that jimmy v is known to not be squeaky clean despite what BridgetSPK will tell you?

and making a point to bring it up is the internet equivalent to crying about it, as far as i'm concerned.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 9:01 PM. Reason : IF YOU STOP LISTENING TO THE SHOWS AND READING THE COLUMNS, THEY WON'T SAY ANYTHING]

4/6/2011 9:00:50 PM

I'll be sure to stop trying to make points on message boards...

4/6/2011 9:04:34 PM

you should absolutely stop trying to make points to DOUG GOTTLIEB on THEWOLFWEB.

he doesn't read this message board.

4/6/2011 9:06:16 PM

You're the one that said he was correct. I'd have just chuckled at Gotlieb's idiocy otherwise.

4/6/2011 9:08:05 PM

simonn has been extra pissy lately

4/6/2011 9:08:47 PM

Simonn has my upmost respect. By far the best ST poster after me. He keeps it real and objective when it would be easy to be a homer, and he doesnt back down from the retarded masses.

4/6/2011 9:20:30 PM

you give yourself wayyyy too much credit

4/6/2011 9:25:07 PM

Gottlieb should stick to stealing credit cards.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 9:29 PM. Reason : tbdv]

4/6/2011 9:28:47 PM

Quote :

"guys, norm sloan had to leave the fucking program."

guys, our AD was a cheap ass.

4/6/2011 10:22:11 PM

How many times are other programs called out almost 30 years later by national media for cheating that never happened? Sorry simonn, you're an excellent contrarian, but the 83 team was clean.

I still hold you in the highest regard here for our mutual hatred of the coach who shall not be named.

4/6/2011 10:27:04 PM

After reading all the misinformation and jumping to conclusions about the UConn situation on this very board and from the national media I'm convinced that no one has any idea about anything to do with college sports ethics.

It's easier to just assume any minor infraction is grounds for discounting an entire program's history. Clearly 2005 UNC was dirty because something that happened in the 50's. So are all of Duke's titles, since they were on probation for DT as well.

4/6/2011 10:34:28 PM

Is it because we're one of the few fan bases with a program that has been poor for so long that still care enough to respond every single time it happens? Aside from getting off on the attention, I just don't get why national media feel the need to continually put us in our place, so to speak.

I'm sure we're not the only school that gets negative attention - it just so happens that we're on the look out for every instance as it related to us. Anybody have experience with fans from other schools that feel like this? And I'm not talking about fan bases that are annoyed with one particular commentator or writer - it seems like there's a lot of different people in media that call out State basketball frequently.

4/6/2011 10:41:38 PM

simonn, you can feel free to tell me to SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU STUPID FUCKING IDIOT!!! or whatever. But it's totally uncool to toss my name out just to try to get people to back down from an argument with you. That ain't right.

We argued about Chapel Hill. I still think they're different. And I also think they spend a ton of money, time, and effort convincing people that they're not different, which is why I don't miss a chance to point out how they operate. Would you at least be willing to admit that they have an amazing PR machine where plenty of schools have almost nothing in that regard?

Furthermore, on the topic of Mr. Valvano, I never said he was squeaky clean. Again, he had his flaws, and we all know them. He over-recruited positions. He cared a lot more about basketball than academics. And he ran around the country selling stuff instead of paying attention to his players. None of that represents an actual violation of any rules, but with his personality, it was probably not a good idea to make him his own boss as AD. And, yeah, some players sold some shoes and tickets. His program was not in tip top shape by any means, but the level to which he was villainized was totally unjustified. And he had to leave the program because the faculty and administration were humiliated by the (unwarranted) media attention. He wanted to stay, and he had every right to, but his own school ran him off. In fact, The Technician called for the entire basketball program to be shut down.

I mean, I know you think you're being a real badass when you announce that Valvano was dirty...but you need to be specific. You're aware that he was accused of pretty much everything, right? Like, people actually believe he knowingly permitted players to shave points for money. He was just sitting up in his office like, "Yeah, hook me up with some of that point-shaving cash. I need some money so I can personally purchase hookers/crack for this retarded criminal I'm trying to recruit..." Anyway, every time you call him dirty without being specific, you're confirming that image of him.

So be specific. In fact, why don't you try it out right here: give us a specific statement about something he did.

Here's a good article I found for those who want to understand a little better:
http://www.feinsteinonthebrink.com/index.php?categories=Jim%20Valvano

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 2:38 AM. Reason : ]

4/7/2011 2:17:28 AM

You just got trolled by one of the douchiest posters ST has to offer. Congrats.

4/7/2011 5:38:16 AM

I hear ya.

But I had no idea that other people shared his sentiments! I don't quite understand...where they raised by Chapel Hill fans or something?

4/7/2011 6:52:03 AM

John Feinstein is like Rick Reilly if Rick Reilly could write. Not exactly a hard facts reporter.

4/7/2011 6:59:11 AM

I wasn't trying to post a hard facts reporter.

Did you have an article that you wanted to share? You should share it.

4/7/2011 7:11:05 AM

An article about John Feinstein? Because that's the only point I'm trying to make here.

4/7/2011 7:55:52 AM

Quote :

"I don't quite understand...where they raised by Chapel Hill fans or something?"

i don't quite understand why you keep saying this. you're openly admitting that the way you see things is through rose colored glasses, and asking me why i don't wear those same glasses.

and as much as i appreciate the books that you're writing to me, i'm just not going to respond to all of it. i mean, i know you think you're being really clever when you go find random articles and call on me to provide eye witnesses, but you're just being ridiculous.

4/7/2011 10:17:34 AM

You're right...I should be like you where I mouth off a bunch of bullshit on the Internet and have Jaybee1200 congratulate me for keeping it "real and objective."

My posts are hardly books.

That article isn't random. And I didn't post for you anyway.

You've repeatedly called him dirty. Tell me what you're talking about. And, please, be specific.

4/7/2011 11:11:07 AM

Can you guys go make out somewhere else

This thread is for documenting evidence of external oppression

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM. Reason : This is the first time Bridget has defended a white person]

4/7/2011 11:14:00 AM

I think it's over anyway.

I mean, there's no way simonn has actual evidence that Valvano was a dirty coach so I don't know what he could possibly post in response to me.

Also, he's a liar and pussy. And a bitch who spreads rumors twenty years after they were investigated and refuted. And he's a troll, according to Ribs, so he shouldn't even really care.

4/7/2011 11:28:29 AM

i could go find the articles that were written about him at the time, or the entire book, but you'd just tell me that those aren't true, so there's really nothing that i can do here.

4/7/2011 11:34:21 AM

are you referring to the book that was indeed found out to be entirely fabricated?

4/7/2011 11:38:41 AM

Quote :

"You're right...I should be like you where I mouth off a bunch of bullshit on the Internet and have Jaybee1200 congratulate me for keeping it "real and objective.""

LoL


Don't let him bring you down Simonn, it takes courage to do what you do. In fact, I think we would all be well served to do a group reading of John F. Kennedy's Profile in Courage before this goes any further.

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 1:34 PM. Reason : D]

4/7/2011 1:31:57 PM

4/7/2011 1:48:37 PM

^^Since when is it courageous to slander somebody with no evidence or support?

He was investigated by everybody. The SBI even came after him. They desperately wanted to bust him doing something--anything!, but they found nothing to substantiate the wild accusations that had been hurled at him by Golenbock and every other jerk in the media.

And it's not cause he managed to pull off some amazing, perfect cover-up. It's because he never was the dirty slime ball Eye-talian that people prejudicially delighted in imagining him to be.

Yes, he had his flaws, and I've outlined many of them in this thread, but he was no dirty coach.

4/7/2011 3:32:44 PM

yes, i'm the one slandering people. meanwhile, BridgetSPK calls everyone involved w/ the jimmy v ordeal racists.

4/7/2011 3:46:20 PM

No, I didn't.

And, please, post your specific information about the dirty cheating that Jim Valvano did.

I'm on the edge of my seat!

4/7/2011 3:49:04 PM

are you under some sort of impression that i have personally gathered a filing cabinet of spy photos of jimmy v handing kids envelopes of cash or something? if you are unconvinced by the fact that he was forced to resign as our coach and AD, then there's nothing that i can give you.

but please, do let me point out the similarities between what happened w/ jimmy v and what's going on w/ butch davis, a coach that i can only presume that you think is guilty as sin.

4/7/2011 3:55:39 PM

This is like watching two mongoloids fighting over the last graham cracker.

4/7/2011 3:59:02 PM

DeCourcy's really bent out of shape about us not hiring Cronin. Chill out, dude.

4/7/2011 4:06:07 PM

^^^I was under the impression that you had some kind of evidence to support the assertion that Jim Valvano was a dirty coach. You've asserted it emphatically and knowingly in two different threads now. I thought surely you had something to back it up.

I did not realize you did not have any evidence and that you would eventually resort to untenable comparisons with Butch Davis--a man I've never said a word about, by the way.

^^I want the cracker.

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2011 4:09:10 PM

Quote :

"but please, do let me point out the similarities between what happened w/ jimmy v and what's going on w/ butch davis, a coach that i can only presume that you think is guilty as sin."

Simple version
Butch davis= Will have NCAA violations
Jimmy V= NO NCAA Violations

Jimmy V

Quote :

" A 1989 NCAA investigation cleared Valvano, but found that players sold shoes and game tickets. As a result, NC State placed its basketball program on probation for two years (the maximum) and was banned from participating in the 1990 NCAA tournament. The state-appointed Poole Commission issued a 32-page report that concluded that there were no major violations of NCAA regulations, and that Valvano and his staff's inadequate oversight of players' academic progress violated "the spirit, not the letter of the law." After this report, Valvano was forced to resign as the school's athletic director in October 1989. He remained as basketball coach through the 1989–1990 season. Under subsequent pressure from the school's faculty and new Chancellor, Valvano negotiated a settlement with NC State and resigned as basketball coach on April 7, 1990. Six separate entities investigated Valvano and the NC State basketball program including the NC State Faculty Senate, the North Carolina Attorney General, the University of North Carolina Board of Governors, the NC State Board of Trustees, and the NCAA. None of them found any recruiting or financial improprieties. However, a school investigation did reveal that Valvano's student athletes did not perform well in the classroom, as only 11 of the players that he coached prior to 1988 had maintained an average of C or better.[4] This was perhaps due to his persistence in recruiting students deemed to be "academic exceptions.""

Butch Davis: Assistant head coach determined to be an agent or a runner for an agent, Multiple athletes known to accept benefits under his watch, Multiple athletes found guilty of academic cheating Butch Davis employed the "cheating tutor" personally to "tutor his son". All this was found without the investigation by "6 separate entities" in fact in this case it looks like the BOG and BOT are doing their best to turn a blind eye. Oh and don't forget the runner/ drug dealer that butch let hang around in UNC's locker room.


So yeah please do show where the parallels are?

4/7/2011 4:12:53 PM

Quote :

"A 1989 NCAA investigation cleared Valvano, but found that players sold shoes and game tickets."

you don't see the similarities there? players gettin' money w/ the coach somehow not noticing?

guys i'm sorry. we don't need to keep doing this. all i ask is that you do not believe that our basketball program was shut down and a national title winning coach was forced to resign b/c of some UNC conspiracy, or b/c jimmy v was an italian and apparently everyone hates greasy italians.

4/7/2011 4:25:21 PM

All that you ask? No, you've been asking us all along to just take your word for it that Jim Valvano was a dirty coach. And when pressed for evidence, you mentioned a book that has been largely dismissed as tripe...a book that you know has been dismissed as tripe.

How in the world could you possibly have the nerve to make an "all that I ask" request at this time?

Please, guys, we don't have to do this anymore. All that I ask is that you [just believe me].

WTF is that?

4/7/2011 4:46:46 PM

Quote :

"Please, guys, we don't have to do this anymore. All that I ask is that you [just think about what actually happened w/o first resorting to "conspiracy"]."

more like what i said.

4/7/2011 4:49:41 PM

please guys, i have a match tonight

4/7/2011 4:57:53 PM

Quote :

"A 1989 NCAA investigation cleared Valvano, but found that players sold shoes and game tickets."

Only in your world does thousands of dollars in benefits from agents (possibly some of which was arranged by assistant coach) = some sold shoes and tickets.

Also you are completely ignoring the cheating, personal employment of cheating tutor, employing of an agent/runner and god only knows what else that went on at UNC because no one outside of the NCAA feels like they need to investigate (where are those 6 independent investigations now??)

If you are going to try and compare Bitch davis to Jimmy V you are going to have to do a damn better job than that.

4/7/2011 5:00:34 PM

like i said, i'm done trying to convince you that the world isn't out to get us. carry on in this absurd delusion. journalists everywhere love you for it.

4/7/2011 5:05:56 PM