well Jeremiah Wright was his spiritual advisor

you do admit that Wright is a racist, right?

--

but anyway, there are obviously racists on both sides of the aisle...i just think the race card gets pulled way too often on anyone criticizing obama...its easy and the media loves it

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:49:27 PM

9/17/2009 2:52:42 PM

so all white guys wear suits and ties?

i like how you can't even admit that Wright is a racist

but somehow the entire 180 million white people in the united states are

anyway nothings getting accomplished in here (its TSB what do you expect) so i'm gonna depart for now

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:54 PM. Reason : BYE!]

9/17/2009 2:53:13 PM

Now you're just putting words in my posts.

9/17/2009 2:54:49 PM

Could someone please link to a video/interview/statement of a protester with a valid, well-reasoned concern? Someone who doesn't need to use any of these terms to make their point:

Muslim, Socialist, Indonesian, Welfare, Hitler, Nazi, Anti-christ, Czar, Birther, Kenya, Hussein, Death-Panel, Fascist, Communist, & Tyrant.

9/17/2009 2:55:24 PM

^^stfu racist

see how fun it is when you cant say shit and you automatically get labelled a racist?


[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:55:53 PM

Quote :

"haha a poll commissioned by Daily Kos"

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/244/story/883686.html?storylink=omni_popular

Quote :

"54 percent believe that Obama was born in the United States. Twenty-six percent of those surveyed said they do not believe Obama was born in the U.S."

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2009/08/25/less-than-half-of-arkansans-think-obama-is-a-us-citizen/

Quote :

"A poll conducted by publicpolicypolling.com released today revealed that less than half of Arkansans think President Barack Obama is a citizen of the United States."

9/17/2009 3:03:09 PM

Quote :

"^wow, a poll that only the vocal minority would even answer, thanks for another quality post moron Quote : "According to a new poll from Research 2000 (commissioned by Daily Kos)" haha a poll commissioned by Daily Kos shocking "

How about 2 other different polls that show widespread delusion among the right?

There are more polls that indicate the same thing, but if you're too stubborn or foolish to embrace reality, just like your right-leaning brethren, there's nothing more I can do for you.

Most republicans question OBama's birthplace
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/06/poll-finds-doubts-on-obamas-birth/

1/3rd of Utahns question Obama's birthplace
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705321969/13-of-Utahns-question-birthplace.html

9/17/2009 3:03:41 PM

I love how white Obama supporters talk about "White people" like they're some completely different race.

The "hey look at me, I voted for a black guy and you didn't so you're obviously a racist" attitude is quite played.

9/17/2009 3:03:55 PM

Quote :

"Could someone please link to a video/interview/statement of a protester with a valid, well-reasoned concern? Someone who doesn't need to use any of these terms to make their point: Muslim, Socialist, Indonesian, Welfare, Hitler, Nazi, Anti-christ, Czar, Birther, Kenya, Hussein, Death-Panel, Fascist, Communist, & Tyrant."

That's what I was asking for last page, but it looks like that request was completely dodged.

9/17/2009 3:04:03 PM

^^^, ^^^^ thanks for the additional links...i think those are much more valid polls

you do have to understand that when your original links are Daily Kos or Huffington Post, they're not as likely to be non-biased as the later links

post those in the first place and i won't question your sources

just like if i was going to post an article or poll, i'd try my best to find one not from fox news or newsmax, etc

you can call it being stubborn or foolish, but you've done the exact same thing when the sources are heavily biased to the right


[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 3:07:52 PM

^^ I searched youtube for Fox News 9 12 coverage thinking they would try and be sympathetic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWFQraYkNNQ

Despite the signs and what the crowd was chanting (not sure what they were saying, but it sounded like "barrack please stop" maybe?), it only took them to talk to 3 people to find someone fearing for his "freedom."

To their credit though, the first 2 people were able to stay on message somewhat, however vague their concerns were.

I don't know whether I should be surprised or not that they chose not to actually interview a protester.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 3:10:05 PM

I don't know, but I would love to see an argument from anyone that doesn't involve hyperbole. Even Boehner can't seem to avoid straying into that lock and step territory.

9/17/2009 3:16:48 PM

I was on their website looking to see if they did any polls of their own regarding birther statistics. I figured, if anyone had statistics to diminish birthers, it would be Fox. A brief search didn't show anything worthwhile, but I did find this op-ed on the racism issue:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/09/17/marc-lamont-hill-obama-race-right/#

Quote :

"By identifying the racial dimensions of the current political moment, President Carter has pointed out a huge elephant in the room. Until the rest of the Democratic Party musters the courage to do the same on a regular basis, President Obama will continue to take unnecessary hits. "

9/17/2009 3:20:47 PM

Every time the GOP has a birth certificate debunked, there's another fucking story from them as to why it was debunked and how they're the poor little victim being picked on for speaking out. Debating them is like trying to kill terrorism by killing terrorists; you can't claim victory by giving the motherfuckers the death they desire. You can't beat these pieces of shit in a debate because they aren't expecting to "win" a debate, they just want people to look at them talking with someone who has credibility as though Detroit is a better football team for having gotten the shit kicked out of them by New Orleans. Portraying The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, as a half-naked witch doctor? Rational debate on policy. Hitler? Why, that's just talking about the issues. The Joker? Hey, we're just attacking his positions here. These are people who call The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama a Socialist or a Communist or a Nazi or a Fascist or a Terrorist or any combination of those, and keep a straight face. They believe the bullshit, wholeheartedly. It's like listening to the Jonestown tapes, and I say that because these people are repeating completely truthless and baseless accusations like they're giving you the time of day. They've gotten crazier SINCE the election because at least back then they had McCain to tell them, "No, he's not a terrorist" and at least feign the voice of moderation. Now, well, fuck that, they're looking at retiring him. They're looking at purging anyone from The Party that dares say that The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama is NOT a Socialist, Communist, Terrorist, any of those things.

Would I say racism plays a part in the squealing opposition? Yes, I would wager that there is more than a good whiff of racism in some of the more extreme examples of the teabaggers, and some of the representatives in Congress have let things slip that aren't so savory, but it's small beans compared to the shit their constituents are peddling. You see, it isn't that Dick Armey is a racist, because I would say he probably isn't much of one. It's that he doesn't denounce racism. I mean, Anyone here would denounce racism or child abuse or molestation, so what's the big deal with having a bunch of GOP movers and shakers flat-out telling people that racism is wrong and it has no place in their party? It's probably partly that they need the votes, or maybe that a lot of the GOP in power now have hated the shit out of America since around 1964. That's why things like the ERA haven't gotten passed, and that's why The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama is encountering so many loony-bin escapees. Again, it's not that people like Dick Armey are racists in the vein of Strom Thurmond, but they recognize that they can often count on getting the votes of blatant racists because they are masters of playing the dogwhistle. They're great at getting someone every now and then to call The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama "uppity" or compare his wife to a gorilla, and then not issue so much as a "well, we certainly do not condone the actions of the individual in question." They know they can get away with it because the news will be about the "rogue congressman" from bumfuck as opposed to the stunning silence from his peers.

9/17/2009 3:24:28 PM

Quote :

"I don't want a black president anymore. I want a white male who says and does everything Barack Obama does. Just with white skin. I feel really foolish for ever believing people would respect Obama. Fuck this shit. Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it."

This quote is fucking ridiculous. I hated many things that Bush did and he is white. If Obama was white, he would probably be hated on even more. Many are afraid to say things because he is in fact black for the fear of being racist. The race card is really getting old and needs to be dropped.

9/17/2009 3:27:37 PM

Quote :

"Many are afraid to say things because he is in fact black for the fear of being racist. The race card is really getting old and needs to be dropped."

LOL, you just did the same thing that you are condemning people for.

Like it or not, race IS and WILL BE an issue in so much as there will always be a sizable group who supports Obama claiming that his critics are doing so based on race and there will always be a sizable group who condemns Obama and says that he doesn't get enough mainstream criticism because of his race (what you just did).

9/17/2009 3:44:20 PM

I'm not really stepping into this argument, but this bit I just had to comment on:

God:

Quote :

"and a coincidence that the political cartoon you posted has huge monkey ears and a big fat nose..."

Have you not heard of a caricature? It exaggerates features. And if you don't think the exact same description could be used for a caricature of a white dude, this is the first result of a google image search for "george bush political cartoon." response number one, numero uno.



That's waaaay more simian than any Obama caricature. Explicitly apeish feet, "huge monkey ears", short stature and monkeyish posture, a big orangutan mouth, etc. I know we're talking about a sample size of two so far, but in no way can you cite that as a "coincidence" that implies racism.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 4:40:47 PM

i would point out there is a difference between making someone look like a monkey because they are dumber than one and making one look like a monkey because it is a racial slur

9/17/2009 4:51:27 PM

and once again it becomes about race, even though its really not

9/17/2009 4:54:48 PM

I believe you are ignoring being racially sensitive.

Sure, I could say that Obama is "going bananas," but that wouldn't be being racially sensitive.

I could also say that he is "monkeying around" with our health care but that wouldn't be being racially sensitive.

9/17/2009 4:57:12 PM

^^^ There is, but W's big ears have always been the dominant feature caricatured in political cartoons. Just because the cartoon is suddenly of a black man doesn't mean racism and monkeys are involved.

^ What are you going to caricature about Obama's face that isn't "racially insensitive?" Dude's got some big ears. He also has a large nose. Are political cartoonists supposed to be inaccurate or untrue to a time-honored form of artistic expression just because the President isn't white anymore?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 4:57:23 PM

Would you say that Obama is "going ape" over passing this bill?

I mean, YOU'RE NOT RACIST BUT.....

9/17/2009 4:59:09 PM

That depends, would you say Bush cooked up his scheme for the Iraq War in the Caucaus Mountains with Yakub?

9/17/2009 5:03:02 PM

I wouldn't, personally, because I'm not 50 years old. Who talks like that?

But to your point: sure, a certain modicum of racial sensitivity is judicious, but you can't let it cripple your entire mode of thinking or prevent you from expressing yourself like a normal human being. We should all avoid overtly racist gestures, but we should also accept the fact that there are a lot of common idioms in our colorfully figurative language that could, if you're looking for it, be interpreted as having racial/sexist/antisemitic/homophobic/etc overtones. I'm not going to edit this because I used the word "colorfully."

At some point we have to stop putting every gorram word of a speech or every pixel of an image under the microscope and move on with our lives by bearing in mind the larger context of the world around us.

9/17/2009 5:05:22 PM

Bush literally looks like a monkey. His face is extremely simian for a famous person. Plus he says dumb things and speaks like a simpleton.

I don't think I've seen Obama made into a monkey since that cartoon about the woman getting mauled by a chimp.

9/17/2009 5:05:38 PM

what an ape...i mean...is...what?

9/17/2009 5:07:47 PM

Shut the fuck up about race already. Unless someone actually makes a racist remark, claiming that a person's political opposition is rooted in secret racism is totally baseless and stupid.

9/17/2009 5:42:43 PM

This is where I (and I'm sure others) get frustrated with the media. They spend more time on a relatively soft news story like Glen Beck than actually digging into the actual machinations of day to day government.

Quote :

"Glenn Beck: the pudgy, buzz-cut, weeping phenomenon of radio, TV and books. Our hot summer of political combat is turning toward an autumn of showdowns over some of the biggest public-policy initiatives in decades. The creamy notions of postpartisan cooperation — poured abundantly over Obama's presidential campaign a year ago — have curdled into suspicion and feelings of helplessness. Trust is a toxic asset, sitting valueless on the national books. Good faith is trading at pennies on the dollar. The old American mind-set that Richard Hofstadter famously called "the paranoid style" — the sense that Masons or the railroads or the Pope or the guys in black helicopters are in league to destroy the country — is aflame again, fanned from both right and left. Between the liberal fantasies about Brownshirts at town halls and the conservative concoctions of brainwashed children goose-stepping to school, you'd think the Palm in Washington had been replaced with a Munich beer hall. "

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348,00.html?cnn=yes



Part of the reason no one really understands the health care bills is because none of the major print outlets have devoted any significant press to what is actually in the bills.

Liberal or not, the press is incompetent when it comes to uncovering actual stories.

9/17/2009 5:51:56 PM

Quote :

"Unless someone actually makes a racist remark"

I'm thinking of the teaparty leader who called Obama a Indonesian Muslim Welfare Thug.

9/17/2009 6:01:36 PM

I think we can all agree that that was a racist remark

But political cartoon caricatures? Or simply saying you don't want a government run universal healthcare system? Those aren't racist. They're just not.

9/17/2009 6:18:14 PM

I don't want those (low income, poor, and most likely minority) people to get the free health care that I pay for with the money and wealth from my job (that I got with my racially institutionalized privileges).

Clear enough?

9/17/2009 6:54:07 PM

People think what they want to think, you can read into something however you choose to

How about saying you're against hundreds of billions of dollars of government bailouts for big corporations? Is that racist too?


[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 7:01 PM. Reason : you're]

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 6:57:05 PM

Quote :

"I don't want those (low income, poor, and most likely minority) people to get the free health care that I pay for with the money and wealth from my job (that I got with my racially institutionalized privileges)."

Seriously?

Let's just take out your added assertions: I don't want people to get free healthcare that I pay for with the money and wealth from my job. That sounds like a statement I can agree with. It has nothing to do with the race of the people that would be receiving free healthcare. You want it to be about race, because it would make your "side" look better. But it still has nothing to do with race.

And you take it one step further, by stating that anyone against universal healthcare is a beneficiary of "racially institutionalized privileges." How can you even begin to back up that claim? You realize that there are people of every race that oppose government-run healthcare, right?

9/17/2009 7:17:23 PM

It's the same argument with welfare. Middle-class White people don't like their tax dollars going to pay for worse off minorities.

Also, since you're so sure that this is an issue that people of every race oppose, clearly there must have been people of all creeds at the 9/12 events. Let's play spot the Black person: http://www.flickr.com/photos/derami/sets/72157622226016171/

(I know there's one on the front page of this thread, but care to find any more?)

9/17/2009 7:28:19 PM

Does painting an image of roughly half the country as racists based on the vocal minority just make you feel better about yourself?

9/17/2009 7:34:57 PM

I don't think I said half the country. White people only make up about 68%. I'd say a good half of them at least. So that's only around 34%!

9/17/2009 7:38:59 PM

I'd say you're speaking from your rectum

9/17/2009 7:40:48 PM

9/17/2009 7:44:30 PM

When you factor in how many white people vote, how many white people you are saying are racist, and how many white people voted for Obama, your math is fucked

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 7:47 PM. Reason : great cartoons by the way...throw in one every now and then since the race card gets so repetitive]

9/17/2009 7:46:34 PM

You can't just say "race card!" and expect people to disregard reality. Institutionalized racism still exists by and large.

9/17/2009 7:56:38 PM

Has Obama himself not proven that someone can overcome challenges and rise to the most powerful office on the planet? Or is this finally when you acknowledge that his mom is white?

9/17/2009 8:00:50 PM

^ does that mean racism should be excused or ignored?

9/17/2009 8:21:39 PM

Neither, but racism will never end, thats a pipe dream...but Obama has shown that race can't hold you down from excelling to the top job in the world. People in this country of all races who voted helped make that happen.

So why so many claims of racism at opposition? What more do people want?

Another example of thinly veiled racism I've seen is apparently white people aren't allowed to criticize Obama because of institutionalized racism and white shame, i mean privledge



[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 8:24:33 PM

Quote :

" So why so many claims of racism at opposition? "

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

9/17/2009 8:26:12 PM

Or if the only thing on your mind is that it must be a duck

9/17/2009 8:27:58 PM

I didn't start thinking about ducks until I saw so many of them flock to DC last weekend.

9/17/2009 8:37:09 PM

but is that representative of (according to God) half the white people in the USA?

Or like many things does the vocal minority get the publicity

9/17/2009 8:39:18 PM

^^^ you’re right, no one would ever try to scare people using Obama’s race.

These peopels’ fears are perfectly rational: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 8:39 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 8:39:25 PM

moron please see my previous post

btw, is a party at william ayers house representative of the entire left / obama supporters? is a church sermon from rev. wright representative of all the left / obama supporters

of fucking course its not

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 8:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 8:40:16 PM