Quote :

"i wouldn't leave texas either"

2/25/2011 9:59:51 AM

I thought we just didn't want to pay him last go around?

2/25/2011 10:00:26 AM

Quote :

"Not sure why anyone would think contract size correlates with success"

Because it absolutely does. It's the business of college basketball. Of course there are some outliers but believe me those will get cleaned up on their next contract discussion.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:04 AM. Reason : . ]

2/25/2011 10:03:59 AM

Leonard Hamilton is guaranteed more money than Bo Ryan, and $10k less than Roy Williams

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason : Jeff Capel is guaranteed more than all three]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason : Al Skinner made $2.2m last year]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:08 AM. Reason : Herb is guaranteed more than Boeheim]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:09 AM. Reason : Trent Johnson makes more than Jamie Dixon]

2/25/2011 10:06:21 AM

Oh okay, thanks Ernie. That proves there is no correlation between contract size and success.

You don't really believe there isn't a correlation do you? You are just trolling me right?

Quote :

"Of course there are some outliers but believe me those will get cleaned up on their next contract discussion."

Can't believe you don't think there is a market for college basketball coaches.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:10 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:08:53 AM

There's one, yeah, but it's not strong enough to say we've got to pay X amount to get a coach that turns the program around.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:11 AM. Reason : Dino Gaudio made more than Brad Stevens last year]

2/25/2011 10:10:35 AM

I didn't say that, if we want to have any chance at a "homerun" hire, such as Billy D or Barnes or whatever name that has prior success at a D1 college basketball school then we're going to have to open up the wallet to lure them here. That's the business.

2/25/2011 10:12:32 AM

Cool, dude

I never said you said that

You replied to me

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM. Reason : My previous posts had nothing to do with yours]

2/25/2011 10:13:29 AM

Because you said:

Quote :

"Not sure why anyone would think contract size correlates with success"

Which is flat out untrue, dude.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:14:13 AM

Quote :

"Not sure why anyone would think contract size correlates with success I'd rather make a smart hire than an expensive hire"

This board is full of Dan Snyders.

Mentioning a coach that's won a NC at another school should be a suspendable offense. If you think we would get a serious look from Donovan, why stop there? Why not go after Coach K?

2/25/2011 10:14:52 AM

Look milkboner, let me explain this to you, we have zero percent chance of landing a big name coach

Did I do that right?

2/25/2011 10:15:40 AM

I'd love to get Donovan he seems like a hard worker and the type who would love to get into the rivalry of ACC basketball. Despite the two national titles at UF it is still and always will be a football first school. I think that is the type of hire it would take for us to have any reasonable shot at competing with Duke and Carolina at least until Coach K and Roy retire/die.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:15:48 AM

Reminds me of the phrase "you get what you pay for". We're getting what we payed for right now with Lowe. If we try to go out and get a homerun hire or any experienced and successful coach and tell them we'll pay them a buck and a half they're going to laugh in our faces.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:20 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:19:22 AM

Quote :

"Look milkboner, let me explain this to you, we have zero percent chance of landing a big name coach"

I mean...I think our chances of getting a big name coach are extremely small...but it's always a possibility.

We shouldn't be able to get a big name coach...but sometimes crazy stuff happens.

2/25/2011 10:20:43 AM

those wanting to spend $texas on a new coach, would you be ok if your season ticket prices doubled or tripled in cost?

I have been a season ticket holder since I graduated, but I don't think I would want to pay that much more.

2/25/2011 10:21:07 AM

And we could guarantee Billy Donovan the same contract A-Rod currently has and he'd laugh in our faced. Why the hell would he leave a good situation for one which isn't any better than his current position. This isn't like trying to sign free agent players in the pros.

You need to, you know, find someone who wants to move up, not down.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:24 AM. Reason : x]

2/25/2011 10:22:33 AM

Quote :

"those wanting to spend $texas on a new coach, would you be ok if your season ticket prices doubled or tripled in cost?"

Good thing I don't have season tickets....HIRE AWAY!!!!

2/25/2011 10:28:11 AM

^^^ If I lived in Raleigh and we had a fucking consistent top 20 team, I'd be willing to pay more to watch them.

Also

Quote :

"Despite the two national titles at UF it is still and always will be a football first school"

This is the argument for every SEC school except Kentucky and Vandy (the Mississippi schools don't count). Until the early 90s, UF was a piece of shit at pretty much everything. Kind of like us right now. They turned it around thanks to Spurrier and the football program and that helped build success in their other sports including basketball.



[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:33 AM. Reason : gh]

2/25/2011 10:32:52 AM

http://basketball.about.com/od/coaches/a/coach-salaries.htm

These are pretty successful programs these coaches run right? But I'm sure these programs are all losing money hand over fist though and nobody goes to the games because it's just so damned expensive. boo hoo!

We don't need to pay a good coach his fair market value to win championships at NC State!!!

Unbelievable.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:37 AM. Reason : link not quote]

2/25/2011 10:36:02 AM

I wonder which I am more likely to see first: NC State wins a National Championship in either football or basketball, or Cubs win the World Series. I pick some real winners to cheer for

2/25/2011 10:36:50 AM

why don't you just pick some other teams?

2/25/2011 10:37:24 AM

The only coach currently at a successful major conference school that we have any chance of hiring is Sean Miller, and really we have no chance at him.

He's making $2.3m per, one of the top 10 salaries in the nation. That's more guaranteed money than Pitino, Barnes, Wright, Calhoun, anyone named Williams, more than Jim Boeheim and Jamie Dixon combined.

What'll it take to get him here? $3m guaranteed? That makes him one of the top five highest paid coaches in college basketball.

Probably the only guy I'd be comfortable making that much money. Again, though, let me reiterate: zero chance.

--

The thing about that list is 1. That's not even close to the top 10, 2. No one on that list would come here, 3. What coaches that we have a real chance at do you want to pay > $3m?

Moreover, this poorly executed bit of sarcasm is exactly my point.

Quote :

"We don't need to pay a good coach his fair market value to win championships at NC State!!! "

We don't need to overpay, we need to make the smart hire, however much that costs. Paying Rick Barnes $4m is not a smart hire.


[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:41 AM. Reason : ]

2/25/2011 10:37:47 AM

^^You idiot. first off, it's not like those schools went out and hired those coaches right off at those numbers (except Cal, but Kentucky's different, cupboard was fuller, same for UNC and Louisville).

Most of the best ones on that list (K, Boeheim, Calhoun, Matta) came in from mid-majors and got paid that much after building long term success there.

And don't forget, most people still will remember how we ran off a coach that went to the NCAAs 5 times.

Why the fuck would someone leave a sweet situation at a Texas or Florida to come here and get yelled at by a bunch of dumb hicks and frat douchbags every time he doesn't have a better year than K?

2/25/2011 10:42:33 AM

We don't necessarily need to hire someone ARLEADY on the top 10 highest paid coaching list, but we do need to make a good hire of a proven successful d1 basketball coach and we'll have to pay him quite a bit of money to lure him here, putting him in or near the list of highest paid coaches. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying go out and try to outbid Duke for Coach K.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:42:34 AM

^^^^^ I feel your pain being a Cubs fan myself, but I would say the Cubs win the World Series first.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason : .]

2/25/2011 10:42:59 AM

I don't get what's wrong with getting a strong mid-major coach.

2/25/2011 10:43:48 AM

Quote :

"and we'll have to pay him quite a bit of money to lure him here"

This is incredibly relative.

We aren't going to be paying a coach from Buttfuck U. $2m.

2/25/2011 10:45:33 AM

Mark Turgeon's next contract will demand a lot more $ than whatever he's making now. Same with Gregg Marshall. Those are two names off the top of my head that would be pretty solid hires, but I promise you that they ain't coming for 1.5 mil because there will be demand for their services at other schools as well

If we could lure a Rick Barnes or Billy D. for $4 million and we're top 5 in the nation every other year then fuck yes, it was the right hire.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM. Reason : having troubles with my their, there, and they're's this AM]

2/25/2011 10:47:59 AM

I'd like to take a run at Brad Stevens if Lowe does indeed get fired. He is a younger guy and seems like a players coach but has obviously gotten results. Having made the title game last year and having a down year this year he has to imagine his stock can only go down from this point at Butler so he should be looking to goto a bigger name school while he has the chance. I think that is our best shot at a person looking to move up who has proven they can get the job done.

2/25/2011 10:49:13 AM

^ We're absolutely zero percent chance not getting Stevens he JUST signed an 11 year contract extension at Butler.

2/25/2011 10:50:30 AM

Ah shit didnt realize that my fault guess he is happy being a mid major coach forever haha

2/25/2011 10:53:46 AM

Quote :

"Mark Turgeon's next contract will demand a lot more $ than whatever he's making now. Same with Gregg Marshall. Those are two names off the top of my head that would be pretty solid hires, but I promise you that they ain't coming for 1.5 mil because their will be demand for their services at other schools as well"

Turgeon is making $1.5m now, he's not coming here. We aren't getting anyone from a major conference, get used to thinking within those parameters. Marshall is making $750k. I'd think doubling his salary would be tempting, and I don't know why anyone that'll have an opening this year would go much higher than that.

Quote :

"If we could lure a Rick Barnes or Billy D. for $4 million and we're top 5 in the nation every other year then fuck yes, it was the right hire. "

Barnes has finished top 5 three times in 12 years and fails in the tournament every year. He doesn't deserve Coach K money. Donovan might, but again, no way he's coming here.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 10:54 AM. Reason : lol Brad "I Just Signed a Ten-Year Extension" Stevens]

2/25/2011 10:53:47 AM

^^^^i dont know if this is a bad comparison or not (different conferences, different competition) but Paul Hewitt also got to a title game

(not saying HEY LETS ALSO LOOK AT HEWITT, but more of "I wouldn't want hewitt but he did the same thing")

2/25/2011 10:54:18 AM

That is very true, but I guess I figure if we are gonna attempt to make some sort of splash hire going after someone with proven success in the tournament is a good place to start. At this point I would be happy just to get back to making the tournament

2/25/2011 10:58:53 AM

what about Tim Floyd? I know he's kind of a cheater, but what the hell. maybe he got that out of his system at UTEP.

2/25/2011 11:02:01 AM

tommy wisue is a poor man's tschudi

2/25/2011 11:02:34 AM

April 5, 2004: Georgia Tech plays in the National Championship
April 15, 2004: Georgia Tech signs Paul Hewitt to the worst contract in the history of sports

As good an example as any why you don't jump on a coach solely because of one or two good showings

2/25/2011 11:04:23 AM

OHHHH THE TRUTH HURTS

2/25/2011 11:05:49 AM

Quote :

"Turgeon is making $1.5m now, he's not coming here."

How can you say that with such certainty? You think he'd turn down an extra million dollars a year so he doesn't have to move to NC? Yeah I get that A&M could renegotiate, or another school offer him, but why are we automatically eliminated from play?

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason : s]

2/25/2011 11:07:29 AM

Really irrelevant to the discussion, but I want to paste this here because it's so awesomely bad

Quote :

"Someone has up loaded Paul Hewitt’s contract onto the document hosting service, Scribd. Here is a link to the document: Paul Hewitt Contract | Scribd. If anyone knows the source of this, please let me know, I’d love to personally thank them. Some highlights: 1) He gets paid at least $1.35 million annually for the life of the contract. 2) He has what some people refer to as an “Evergreen clause” (I call it a perpetual option clause). Basically, at the end of every season, another year is tacked onto the end of his contract, such that he always has six years remaining on his contract. 3) If Georgia Tech chooses to fire him, they’ll be on the hook for all 6 years of the $1.35 million per season, unless he does something incredibly fucking stupid like get a DUI or break NCAA recruiting regulations, et cetera. It’s something we all need to keep in mind when we’re talking about firing Paul Hewitt. $8.1 million (minus the present day dollars discount) is a fuck ton of money to pay someone as termination pay. Perhaps keeping even the worst of coaches is more profitable than paying him $8.1 million for the privelege of signing another coach to a similarly lucrative contract."

--

Quote :

"How can you say that with such certainty?"

We have as much chance at landing Turgeon or any successful major program coach as we do at winning the ACC Tournament next month.

Also worth noting that he re-upped last year after Oregon went after him.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 11:09 AM. Reason : ]

2/25/2011 11:07:54 AM

Packpride will tell you that the big dogs are going to open up the wallet this time to make sure we land a good coach. If that's the case, why can't we dream about Donovan or a big name? If it's about money, then we might be able to do it. Donovan has won all he can at Florida and is still second fiddle to foozball. He might be looking for a challenge and is still very young.

2/25/2011 11:11:34 AM

What about a guy like Matt Painter or Brad Stevens? I know they're both young guys, and people are looking for a proven winner, but it seems to me that you aren't going to get that at NC State right now, given the state of our program. Painter is at a solid program in Purdue, and it seems unlikely he'd want to move, but we have shown more of a commitment to basketball and I think he'd be able to recruit better here. Stevens is just waiting for someone else to snatch him up soon.

Also, I know that Few at Gonzaga has repeatedly refused to leave for a larger school, but it wouldn't hurt to go after him and see if we could get him.

People really need to stop talking about Barnes and Donovan. They are extremely well paid coaches at schools that are contending for the national championship regularly. You don't leave that type of program to come to NC State in the condition we are in now. Barnes was a plausible option before Lowe was hired, but his program has only improved since then, and there is no reason to think he would come to a team that is one of the worst in the ACC.

I think our best shot at moving back to the top, unfortunately, is a young, fresh coach who will emerge as a one of the next Pitinos, Caliparis, or Barneses. Sean Miller would be great, but we're a day late on that. It's like drafting a top player instead of getting a great player in free agency. I would love for us to come back to respectability again, but I think a quick fix is not the right way. I think we made a good shot at it with Lowe, but he hasn't panned out, unfortunately.

2/25/2011 11:42:44 AM

^^^ So that's just your opinion we couldn't get Turgeon to come to Raleigh, which also happens to consistently ranked as one of if not THE best place in the country to live, for a chance to coach in the best conference historically in the country. It appears you have no facts to back up your claim that he wouldn't come here.

Who's your ideal candidate since you believe that nobody worth a shit would ever even consider coaching in Raleigh for the right price? You think we should try our luck with Dereck Whittenburg this time around? I'm sure we wouldn't have to pay him shit, which seems to be your criteria, and he'd gladly take the job, not to mention he'd probably have us no worse than where we are now.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:00 PM. Reason : i'm am so fucking thankful that you aren't the AD]

2/25/2011 11:46:48 AM

I haven't read all through this thread, but I am surprised that no one is mentioning Billy Gillispie.

Quote :

"After leading both UTEP and Texas A&M to postseason appearances one year after poor seasons, Gillispie became the only college basketball coach to be in charge of the NCAA program with the biggest turnaround in two consecutive seasons."

2/25/2011 12:01:12 PM

Milkboner, let's cut the vitriol and have a discussion like two rational adults.

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason : I've mentioned several times that paying someone a lot of money isn't a problem if they're worth it]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason : So please stop purposefully misunderstanding me]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:07 PM. Reason : Thank you sir]

2/25/2011 12:03:46 PM

no thx

2/25/2011 12:03:46 PM

No vitriol coming from me. You haven't mentioned a single name as a possibility. Instead you just tell everyone "oh <insert suggested coach> will never come here" and then don't present any real reasons or facts to back up those claims.

So let's have a rational discussion as you suggested. Who would would you like to see next year that in your opinion we have a realistic chance of getting?

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason : and why would Turgeon NEVER come here?]

[Edited on February 25, 2011 at 12:15 PM. Reason : that's right, you did mention lucky charms leprochaun in an attempt to derail this thread earlier]

2/25/2011 12:11:37 PM

I don't have a list of candidates, because outside the time it's taken to type responses to this thread, I've spent exactly zero minutes thinking about who I'd hire. This seems like a much better way to spend my time than fantasizing over every elite coach in the game. I'm taking the same approach I do with recruiting: until I see them put on the hat at the presser, who cares.

So keep dreaming about shipping bars of gold to Rick Barnes, I'll be keeping it real in Ernie town.

2/25/2011 12:16:13 PM

Exactly, no opinions of your own. Just attacking other people's ideas. Why can't 2 or 3 users have a reasonable discussion about potential new hires without you coming in here and shitting all over it?

2/25/2011 12:18:13 PM

I have plenty of opinions. For example, I am of the opinion that Mark Turgeon will never be our head coach. Nor will Barnes or Donovan.

2/25/2011 12:21:39 PM