Quote :

"You do realize that Sandusky hasn't been a coach in almost 13 years, right?"

Right. My post is in reference to the very second Paterno found out about these allegations around 15 years ago. He knew. End of story.

11/9/2011 2:53:10 PM

11/9/2011 2:56:57 PM

http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html#user-comment-area

That article was written in April!

11/9/2011 2:58:15 PM

^ wow

11/9/2011 3:03:11 PM

The name of the janitor who caught him blowing boys in the shower was Jim Calhoun. LOL.




COCK LOOKER!

11/9/2011 3:03:13 PM

Quote :

"That article was written in April!"

what? it says november 9th.

11/9/2011 3:04:14 PM

Quote :

"Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 11:55 pm | Updated: 4:34 pm, Mon Apr 4, 2011. "

11/9/2011 3:05:52 PM

Quote :

"michael5148 posted at 3:28 pm on Mon, Apr 4, 2011. Posts: 1 This has got to be the worst piece of journalism I have ever seen. What knowledge do you have of this? I am unsubscribing from this newspaper solely because of this rag of an article."

11/9/2011 3:07:00 PM

Quote :

"Right. My post is in reference to the very second Paterno found out about these allegations around 15 years ago. He knew. End of story."

Ah, another reference to inside information and Paterno-God-Mode.

11/9/2011 3:07:08 PM

^^^sorry, thought it was in reference to the timeline on the previous page

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16049259/key-dates-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-case

11/9/2011 3:15:46 PM

A Tanzarian, why are you so inclined to give Joe the beneift of the doubt? Do you believe that he did nothing wrong and shouldn't have done anything differently?

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2011 3:17:35 PM

JoePa is molestation enabler in my book

11/9/2011 3:18:36 PM

Quote :

"1998: Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate. Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead." Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong. The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge."

that is even more egregious than i realized. holy shit.

11/9/2011 3:24:21 PM

Quote :

"Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not"

What the fuck is wrong with these people

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 3:27 PM. Reason : At the end was she like, "Oh, Jerry, you rascal -- you are incorrigible!"]

11/9/2011 3:26:15 PM

^ seriously. it's amazing how many times they tried to distance him from kids w/o arresting him.

11/9/2011 3:28:32 PM

ultimate mafia-mentality

11/9/2011 3:29:25 PM

After he tells you on the phone that he can't promise not to shower with another 11 year-old, how could any parent resist the urge to drive to this guy's house and shoot his face off

11/9/2011 3:30:58 PM

you know, or at the very least call a newspaper.

11/9/2011 3:32:22 PM

They obviously didn't tell the victims father. Sandusky would've left that house on a stretcher

11/9/2011 3:32:33 PM

What? "I was wrong, i wish i could be forgiven, i wish i was dead.... but i can't promise i won't do it again"

11/9/2011 3:32:52 PM

Mom's like WELP I TRIED

11/9/2011 3:33:09 PM

Pat Forde is the best:

Quote :

"STATE COLLEGE, Pa. – Until this week, the final home game of the Joe Paterno Era at Penn State would have been one of the biggest celebrations college football had ever seen. Old players would have returned by the hundreds. Tributes would have poured forth from across the spectrum of sports, as well as bon mots from political and entertainment figures. (A statement from President Barack Obama would have been unsurprising.) The school would have elaborately planned as nice a ceremony as Paterno would have tolerated. It would have been a nationwide salute to a man leaving the game as few coaches do anymore – without significant demerit of any kind in a 46-year body of work. He would have gone into the history books as arguably the greatest of them all: a huge winner and a man of unassailable character. Instead, the Paterno Era will end in haste and amid heartache. His Wednesday retirement announcement comes just three days before the Nittany Lions’ last home game of 2011 and just five wrenching days after former longtime assistant Jerry Sandusky was arrested on child-molestation charges that have stained the once-unblemished Paterno legacy. It will end after a surreal week in which the media camped on the coach’s lawn, and then students rallied on that lawn. It will end with what had been an adoring nation now strongly conflicted about how to regard this 84-year-old coaching giant. The retirement announcement was not greeted with a unanimous cascade of applause. It was greeted with outrage from those who believe the winningest coach in the history of the game should not coach another minute, not after his failure to report a 2002 alleged child rape by Sandusky in the Penn State football building to law enforcement. And, truth be told, it was greeted with some uncertainty as well. The fact that Paterno issued the statement himself, not the university, leaves you to wonder whether the school might have other ideas. A Wednesday night meeting of the Penn State Board of Trustees could conceivably spawn a movement to oust Paterno immediately. So a career unlike any other in college football history does not end well. Certainly not as well as it could have. But that’s the risk you run when you try to stay forever. The longer you coach, the greater the opportunity for something to go wrong. And something did go very wrong in State College. There is intense debate about Paterno’s culpability in the failure of good men to do anything to stop a monster in their midst – the people here seem to be digging in more strongly every day in defense of their hero, while those outside the Happy Valley cocoon grow angrier every day that he remains on the job. But what cannot be debated is the human tragedy that happened on his watch, in his building, at the hands of a longtime trusted assistant. If a graceful exit by a coaching icon seems less common all the time, that’s probably because it is. Woody Hayes, Bob Knight – now Joe Paterno. All left their dream jobs under pressure and under a career-obscuring cloud. Perhaps not coincidentally, all had consolidated a remarkable amount of power in their positions. They had grown so big and powerful that they did as they pleased and basically answered to no one. As the years went by, Paterno wired Penn State with his people: athletic director Tim Curley played for him at the school; son Jay Paterno assumed a key position on the coaching staff; media liaison Guido D’Elia worked directly with Paterno, circumventing school media relations director Jeff Nelson; several members of the Board of Trustees are friends of the coach. It became rather clear that none of these people could tell Paterno what to do. There were no checks and balances in the Penn State football program, which is usually the way powerful coaches want it. Is it any wonder that when administrators approached Paterno urging retirement earlier this decade, he simply blew them off and kept coaching? The fact that he’s still coaching at this age, after a string of infirmities, is prima facie evidence of the enabling done by those around him. Taking care of the coach – and the program’s pristine image – seems to have become the guiding force at Penn State. In talking Tuesday to someone close to the Paterno family, it seems that JoePa’s support system attended to everything in an effort to allow him to simply coach football. The inference was that Paterno existed in something of a coaching bubble, reducing everything else in and around the program to low-level background noise. It’s impossible to know right now whether that support system failed him when it came to the Sandusky scandal, but it certainly appears to have been incapable of helping him do everything possible to stop it. After the announcement Wednesday morning, it was eerily quiet around massive Beaver Stadium – the 107,282-seat house that Joe built. Some students were in their tents at Paternoville, waiting in line for good seats for the Saturday showdown with Nebraska – a game that loomed large last week, then became trivial this week, and now will mark the end of an unparalleled era. Near the tents was the statue of Paterno in iconic dress: glasses, rolled-up pants and tie. On the wall behind the statue it says, “Joseph Vincent Paterno Educator Coach Humanitarian” They have a year-by-year list of every game he’s coached at Penn State, starting in 1966. They end in 2009. Why? They ran out of wall for a career that once seemed literally limitless. There also is a quote on the wall from Paterno: “They ask me what I’d like written about me when I’m gone, I hope they write I made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach.” With his departure now a defined date, Paterno has lost control of his own narrative. The coaching epitaph is more complicated now, and less laudatory. Many people have been hurt far worse in this sordid ordeal, but even the great Joe Paterno has paid a price with the damage to his legacy."

11/9/2011 3:36:07 PM

I think you mean Catholic Church mentality.

11/9/2011 3:36:23 PM

bingo

11/9/2011 3:37:59 PM

Quote :

"Not sure what kind of contrarian bullshit burro is trying to play here but I suggest we just ignore it and go with the known fact that JoePa can contro anything he wants at that school and in that community."

Well, then, I guess he can just walk in to HR and get the Chancellor/President/whatever fired or change his salary at will. yep, JoePa is a straight up hacker!


but, the huge hole in the story, to me, is that the AD is lying to JoePa about a guy below JoePa. Why the hell would the AD cover for a guy subordinate to JoePa to JoePa? makes no sense, unless both Frank Drebbin and the AD were attending NAMBLA meetings together

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 4:01 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2011 3:59:12 PM

Listened to Bob Ley's Outside the Lines show yesterday. The Catholic Church came up from Ley in a discussion saying that this was the same thing and one guy said "what are the Catholic Church and Penn State here both are? heirarchal organizations, it's where instead of notifying the police you notify your superior and it's like 'I did my job, I told my boss' and then you wash your hands on the deal".

11/9/2011 3:59:53 PM

THE WHITE SMOKE IS RISING FROM BEAVER STADIUM

THEY'VE ELECTED A NEW PATERNO

11/9/2011 4:00:12 PM

Quote :

"A Tanzarian, why are you so inclined to give Joe the beneift of the doubt? Do you believe that he did nothing wrong and shouldn't have done anything differently?"

I believe Joe Paterno should step down immediately.

I believe Mike McQueary should step down immediately.

I believe Graham Spanier should step down immediately, and I believe he should be charged with the same failure to notify that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz are being charged with.

I believe the PSU adminstration leadership (i.e., supervisors and up) needs to be cleaned out.

I beleive the rest of the Pennsylvannia University system needs to be investigated for similar cultural issues.

I believe colleges and college sports in general need to be looked at in a critical light. There is no reason why similar issues can't or aren't occuring elsewhere. By 'issues' I don't mean pederasty, I mean campus cultures where low-level employees don't feel confortable reporting blatant, egregious violations and upper-level employees feel comfortable lying to their superiors about serious concerns. I mean issues where image, sports and money trump the fundamental mission of an academic institution.

I don't believe Paterno should be given benefit of the doubt. He has serious and pointed questions to answer about what he knew of the 1998 investigation, and what McQueary told him in 2002. If Paterno is found to have known more than he's letting on, then he needs to face the same charges as Curley and Schultz. However, I do not believe Paterno (or anyone else) should be accused of things based on hindsight and supposition. Paterno is a powerful figure, no doubt. But he is not omniscient, he is not omnipotent, and the man himself is almost certainly smaller than the legend.

Paterno is only one of many who failed to see what was happening, either willingly or unwillingly. What of Sandusky's wife and family? The victim's parents? Others at The Second Mile (some of who may have known of the 1998 and 2002 incidents)? What of the teachers and coaches at local high schools where Sandusky was involved and abused children? What of the DA who failed to press charges in 1998? What of the investigators from the Department of Public Welfare (aka child protective services)? Paterno is clearly the most recognizable face in all of this. Casting all the blame on him may make everyone feel better, but it won't solve any problems.

Outside of Sandusky himself, I believe Schultz is the most cupable. Campus police report to him. He knew of the 1998 investigation into Sandusky's behavior. He knew explicitly what happened in 2002. Yet, he lied to his boss and to McQueary. I wouldn't be surprised to see him face 'accessory after the fact' type charges.

11/9/2011 4:07:50 PM

^i'm pretty sure everyone agrees with you on almost all of those points. paterno's just getting more attention becuase he's legendary coach.

11/9/2011 4:16:42 PM

^^

Quote :

"If Paterno is found to have known more than he's letting on, then he needs to face the same charges as Curley and Schultz. However, I do not believe Paterno (or anyone else) should be accused of things based on hindsight and supposition. Paterno is a powerful figure, no doubt. But he is not omniscient, he is not omnipotent, and the man himself is almost certainly smaller than the legend."

my thoughts exactly

11/9/2011 4:44:56 PM

I think it's pretty safe to say that he he knew enough to do more than he did.

11/9/2011 4:47:47 PM

^ the problem with that statement is that until it is proved with evidence or he admits to it - then no - you shouldn't assume.

again i say, this whole guilty until proven innocent thing is bullshit. (and i don't care if you people think i'm supporting paterno)

^^ agreed completely.

11/9/2011 4:56:41 PM

Except by Pennsylvania state law and the facts we know now he isn't legally culpable. He is only legally responsible to tell his superiors, which he allegedly did. That doesn't mean he isn't a piece of shit and morally responsible to contact the authorities irrespective of what he is minimally legally bound to do.

And can we just drop the JoePa doesn't run shit at Penn State. It's been common knowledge for two decades...

Quote :

"Paterno is only one of many who failed to see what was happening, either willingly or unwillingly."

See, the problem with this is the old adage: "With great power, comes great responsibility." There is no one in that community who means as much and wields as much influence as Paterno. As such, it's only natural to focus on him more than the other, less influential, figures who also failed in their responsibility as men.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 6:14 PM. Reason : x]

11/9/2011 6:12:28 PM

Quote :

"I do wonder what, if anything, Paterno knew about the 1998 investigation. Neither the grand jury nor the current investigation has found anything so far to suggest that he knew."

Shortly after this Joepa told him that he'd never be the PennSt head coach and he retired. Joepa had to know something was up. He at least knew that there was an allegation, and that allegation probably led Joepa to basically kick the guy off his staff (allowing him to go gracefully by retiring, but really he did kick him off the staff at that point.)

Quote :

"i'm waiting for Paterno to fill his house up with balloons and fly away"

Brilliant! Thank you for making me laugh.

Quote :

"By 'issues' I don't mean pederasty, I mean campus cultures where low-level employees don't feel confortable reporting blatant, egregious violations and upper-level employees feel comfortable lying to their superiors about serious concerns. I mean issues where image, sports and money trump the fundamental mission of an academic institution."

I'm sorry to say that nearly all big institutions (both academic and industrial) have this culture. Low level people like graduate students and janitors who haven't been around long are almost always afraid to speak up. And upper level people get there, I'm sorry to say, sometimes partly because they are so willing to lie and cheat if it suits their best interests. I know that I am very cynical, but I've seen many different examples of both aspects at all kinds of places. Most recently academia seems somewhat more tolerant of this "I've got your back, buddy" cover up culture than industry, which is bad and seems backwards, but that is my observation.

Finally, this is getting slightly off topic, but any female who has played competitive sports at the highest level may know that HS sports are filled with just this type of "friendly" sexual predator. Women's athletics has many adult coaches who have an unhealthy interest in pre-teen and teenage women. It's awful, but it's there. I'm not saying it's everyone, of course, but I was surprised how prevalent it was when I played. It seemed much more prevalent in sports than it was in my school, for example. Perhaps the physical lines are just drawn much more clearly for student-teacher interactions. I had more than one coach completely creep me out through completely inappropriate interactions either with me or a teammate, and competitive traveling teams are just set up to have these creeps in situations where the kids can be isolated. Watch your tots closely around coaches (or any adult who seems to take a "special" interest in them, for that matter.)

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 6:52 PM. Reason : I stink at homonyms]

11/9/2011 6:50:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFETyg-nd7M&feature=player_detailpage#t=57s

11/9/2011 7:43:18 PM

11/9/2011 8:32:44 PM

I'm sure its been posted already, but there was an article written on Grantland by one of their writers who grew up with McQueary and Sandusky's kids. He said McQueary looked up to Sandusky all his life, so, while that doesnt excuse his actions, it kinda puts it into a little better context. He saw a guy who was basically his hero and had to decide whether to go kick his ass, call the police, or tell his dad

11/9/2011 8:37:15 PM

I'd rather hear that McQueary just panicked.

Hearing Sandusky was his hero makes it sound like he covered it up on purpose.

11/9/2011 9:39:31 PM

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
RT @colinmacaulay: The NBC10 Sports dept hearing that Paterno is out for good. Tom Bradley will be interim coach.

BOT press conference on at 10 pm et. ESPNews is supposed to be covering it.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2011 10:02:00 PM

Quote :

"I beleive the rest of the Pennsylvannia University system needs to be investigated for similar cultural issues."

Penn State, like Pitt, is a state-assisted school, it isn't a true state school in the same way NC State is. Penn State and its satellite campuses are pretty much autonomous from the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 10:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2011 10:07:00 PM

president just resigned

and paterno is out too

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2011 10:15:15 PM

^Press conference is saying the BOT removed him.

11/9/2011 10:16:16 PM

sorry yea, you're right. wrong wording.

11/9/2011 10:16:50 PM

I wonder if McQueary will be out there Saturday.

11/9/2011 10:17:46 PM

^beat me to it. It is interesting that McQueary still has his job at the moment, would think he would be removed as well.

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2011 10:18:01 PM

And Paterno is done immediately.

11/9/2011 10:21:23 PM

Sounded like the BOT didn't discuss McQueary.

I have a hard time imaging he'll be coaching.

11/9/2011 10:21:25 PM

people seemed really rather miffed that he was told over the phone

11/9/2011 10:22:21 PM

yeah the local media sounds pissed that Paterno was removed.

11/9/2011 10:23:09 PM

oh i'm sure that they are. happy valley is in a bit of a bubble

11/9/2011 10:23:47 PM