plan C is the Charlotte plan, we drive them all to Charlotte

8/26/2013 2:58:57 PM

Plan C is funding one-way Greyhound bus tickets to Florida.

[Edited on August 26, 2013 at 2:59 PM. Reason : Oh, I was close]

8/26/2013 2:59:45 PM

Plan C stands for C-ya!

8/26/2013 3:00:04 PM

cities do that shit all the time

its not anything new or surprising

you should have seen the convoy leaving atlanta before the olympics

8/26/2013 3:00:38 PM

Because he hasn't figured it out yet, I have no fucking idea about any plans. I'm not any kind of organizer for this, just a guy who has been to a few of the meetings. I'm just fucking with TreeTwista because its fun.

8/26/2013 3:01:16 PM

the Olympics is a bit larger and more important than some self righteous neighbors getting mad that there are poor people in the park on weekends

and Charlotte has plenty of homeless people...lucky for me, I chose to live somewhere where they don't congregate...I win

8/26/2013 3:01:58 PM

you probably live in Rock Hill

8/26/2013 3:02:53 PM

at least when hipsters move to the ghetto, they don't start lobbying to kick out all the black people

8/26/2013 3:03:23 PM

It's not impossible. I used to bullseye the homeless in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

8/26/2013 3:03:23 PM

ahaha, ok the rock hill and star wars comments are priceless.

8/26/2013 3:04:38 PM

I don't live in South Carolina

8/26/2013 3:06:26 PM

Quote :

"Gentrification is certainly the reason this is happening at Moore Square, but while it is great for development and increases the attraction of downtown, it presents its own problems. It becomes a class war on the working classes who driven out of housing they can afford. Not many of these hard working people can afford a luxury condo or $1500 a month in rent. These people are pushed into more blighted neighborhoods we like to forget about, far from their jobs (creating a commuting expense and other problems). Often these neighborhoods can offer prison (like the new jail on Hammond Rd.) but little else, and many are "food deserts". As for the homeless there are a multitude of reasons for it beyond lack of personal ambition. Nobody is going to hire someone who is mentally ill for example. Shunning them elsewhere and pretending they don't exist isn't going to solve a thing. They will still be there in your city, just not the parts you probably want to go to. With all the recent policies of the NC government the problem will only increase and regardless of where they are in town, Raleigh will have to spend money on it."

A class war? Please. This is what development is. A lot of money was spent in revitalizing downtown Raleigh. It used to be a shithole that nobody wanted to visit. It has now become a desirable place to live which benefits EVERYONE....jobs, quality of life, economics, etc...When that happens, property values and rent go up. Please stop with this nonsense. Just because you rent a property does not entitle the owner of the property to only charge you what you can afford. If you cannot afford the rent there, you move 5 miles south to someplace you can. Jesus Christ man. The cost of having a nice City is that people want to live there and they are willing to pay to do so. Supply and demand. If you are homeless because your rent went up and you are unwilling to find another place at that cost to live that is your problem for being an illogical dummy.

Homeless people in general are not the issue. There will always be homeless The people who dont like this gathering are not proposing that all homeless be removed from the area. They are asking these groups to practice their philanthropy somewhere else. Ideally, that would be on private property. I dont think this is unreasonable at all.

8/26/2013 3:07:52 PM

http://lovewins.info/2013/08/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-moore-square-indicent/

Quote :

"Have we approached agencies, such as the Salvation Army or the soup kitchen, about using their spaces? That is one option, for sure, and we are investigating it. It is worth noting that the City now owns the Salvation Army building, and the Parks and Recreation Department sent an email to some organizations on Thursday saying that people are no longer allowed to feed at that location."

Looks like someone with a lot of money planned to use city resources to launch a full out attack on the homeless.

8/26/2013 3:49:37 PM

and how'd you arrive at that conclusion?

8/26/2013 3:52:12 PM

Because just days before they stopped a church's feeding operation which had been going for 6 years they also shut down other places.

Regardless of your political views, it's obvious that these are connected. The chain of command is the same for both decisions. This is just stating fact.

8/26/2013 3:59:28 PM

http://www.wral.com/raleigh-city-leaders-to-meet-wednesday-over-moore-square-food-flap/12818647/

Quote :

"Other nonprofits say they were recently notified about the ordinance"

Either someone forgot to tell this specific group, or they're lying about their ignorance on the subject and willingly came out and tried to continue to break the ordinance.

8/26/2013 4:05:30 PM

Quote :

"Perry said Monday that police have recently started informing people about the ordinance, which has been around since 1998, as the city's Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources Department tries to work on a litter and rodent problem in the area. Other nonprofits say they were recently notified about the ordinance, and Perry said the city's efforts to clean up Moore Square are nothing new. The four-acre tract is one of Raleigh's original downtown parks that serves as the venue for a number of public events."

8/26/2013 4:17:57 PM

I do believe that Sayer's DHHS based argument held more weight than "the ordinance" implied in the link ^^

The one WRAL is sticking to, Sec. 9-2022, has some problems.

a) it doesn't apply to sidewalks, and this was the justification the group was already operating with
b) even if the square's sidewalk qualifies as the park, couldn't they have picked up and moved across the street?

8/26/2013 4:25:20 PM

I am pretty sure that the sidewalk is under the same umbrella as the park whether that fact is implied or explicit. It is all public domain. Hotdog vendors would operate under the same rules.

Usually, however, the DHHS only comes into play when there is food preparation involved. I dont think they have a dog in the fight over distribution. Could be wrong though.

8/26/2013 4:36:41 PM

Oh man I've missed a lot! And immaletyoufinish, but some issues need to be addressed:

1. Non-disheveled looking people who stand in line for food: Love Wins is using phrases like "less fortunate" and "homeless" to invoke an emotional response and sensationalize their story. But to me they lose credibility when the pictures they have are of people wearing nice things. LW said they give these handouts "no questions asked" i.e. they don't even know if these people are truly "less fortunate" and/or homeless. If they had done this when I lived downtown, you bet your ass I'd be there getting my free jesus biscuit and coffee (sugar and room for cream plz). Homeless shelters have showers, but they don't give out clothes and shoes that nice. Overall they're trying to pick and choose keywords and phrases to get media attention and create an uproar.

2. Other shelters not being open: This is simply not true. There are other shelters in the area, some of them are open 24/7. Preparation for Independent Living is on Cabarrus and Wrenn House on Morgan are both open on weekends.

3. Other shelters in general: Many of the shelters in the area are setup to give the homeless what they need to get back on their feet - but they are severely lacking in funding, donations, volunteers, etc. If the "five different, large suburban churches" (quoted from the original LW article) really wanted to help DECREASE and PREVENT homelessness, they'd get together and help an existing organization that has the knowledge and can go through the appropriate channels to get them education, healthcare, housing, etc.

4. Homeless people being hungry: Homeless people are eligible for SNAP benefits and they don't need an address or ID to qualify. Read here: http://frac.org/federal-foodnutrition-programs/snapfood-stamps/homeless-persons-rights-under-the-snapsnapfood-stamp-program.

5. "Crazy" homeless people: We definitely need to improve mental healthcare, but those types of homeless people are the ones who typically do not want help or to improve their situation. Deinstitutionalization is a separate issue.

6. Handouts: This is the real issue. HANDOUTS (like this) DO NOT WORK. While researching homelessness is challenging (although places like The Homelessness Research Institute and Spare Change do try), studies show that those who panhandle and go to things like the LW Jesus Biscuit Extravaganza are NOT actually the homeless or the afflicted. Although they have good intentions, these types of unstructured and non-professional events are not helping the people who truly need and want the help that organizations like LW are so eager to give... for a few hours, twice a week, somewhere else.

7. Jesus Biscuits is a hilarious term.

8. OMG WORDS! tl;dr: keep your jesus biscuits out of my god damn park.

8/26/2013 4:58:43 PM

i gave some fucker $7 for gas today at a shell station and watched him go buy lottery ticket(s)

my own personal experiment to assure myself nobody needs my help period (unless extracted by force/penalty)

8/26/2013 5:02:06 PM

Quote :

"Usually, however, the DHHS only comes into play when there is food preparation involved."

DHHS has jurisdiction over anything food and food service.

http://ehs.ncpublichealth.com/faf/docs/foodprot/NC-FoodCodeManual-2009-FINAL.pdf

Quote :

"Food Establishment (1) "Food establishment" means an operation that: (a) stores, prepares, packages, serves, vends food directly to the consumer, or otherwise provides FOOD for human consumption such as a restaurant; satellite or catered feeding location; catering operation if the operation provides FOOD directly to a CONSUMER or to a conveyance used to transport people; market; vending location; conveyance used to transport people; institution; or FOOD bank; and (b) relinquishes possession of FOOD to a CONSUMER directly, or indirectly through a delivery service such as home delivery of grocery orders or restaurant takeout orders, or delivery service that is provided by common carriers. (2) "Food establishment" includes: (a) An element of the operation such as a transportation vehicle or a central preparation facility that supplies a vending location or satellite feeding location unless the vending or feeding location is permitted by the REGULATORY AUTHORITY; and (b) An operation that is conducted in a mobile, stationary, temporary or permanent facility or location and where consumption is on or off the PREMISES. "

According to this, the Jesus Biscuits operation would be considered a "Food Establishment" and potentially could qualify as a Mobile Food Unit and/or Pushcart. According to their website, regardless of which of those sub-categories they fall into, all are required to have 1-4 inspections a year by the State of NC.

8/26/2013 5:33:49 PM

new name: Operation Jesus Biscuit

8/26/2013 5:43:24 PM

Quote :

"But to me they lose credibility when the pictures they have are of people wearing nice things. LW said they give these handouts "no questions asked" i.e. they don't even know if these people are truly "less fortunate" and/or homeless. If they had done this when I lived downtown, you bet your ass I'd be there getting my free jesus biscuit and coffee (sugar and room for cream plz)"

So they should be using an eye test of how shabby your clothes are to determine whether you get free food? Utterly ridiculous.

8/26/2013 6:00:22 PM

Quote :

"But to me they lose credibility when the pictures they have are of people wearing nice things. LW said they give these handouts "no questions asked" i.e. they don't even know if these people are truly "less fortunate" and/or homeless."

I know, you'd have to be following some craaaaazy philosophy to do something like that

8/26/2013 6:45:49 PM

Quote :

"So they should be using an eye test of how shabby your clothes are to determine whether you get free food? Utterly ridiculous."

it shouldn't matter who they're giving food out to, they're doing it in/on a space they don't have a permit for, and they're giving food away to the public without proper sanitation/distribution permits. I'm guessing they also don't have insurance to cover them if something goes wrong.

What happens if one of the volunteers forgets to wipe and makes some biscuits, and as a result someone dies from food-born bacteria and their family or next of kin sues? Or sues the City for letting them operate with our permit or insurance?

8/26/2013 6:58:31 PM

I'm not sure how much "gentrification" is going on when Marbles, Tir Na Nog, Pour House, Caffe Luna, Rum Runners, etc. and much of City Market's commercial tenants have been there for 10 years plus.

Maybe it's less gentrification and more "enough's enough." There are resources throughout downtown. The bus depot is enough of a magnet for the homeless - giving them free food on the weekends just makes it even more so.

Tir na Nog used to be one of my favorite bars when I lived in Raleigh but it just got frustrating after awhile. You'd get aggressively panhandled every single time you sat outside.

8/26/2013 7:13:17 PM

^^I wasn't commenting one way or the other on whether the city should be allowing it to happen, just pointing out that it's ludicrous to assume someone isn't homeless or disadvantaged because their clothes aren't subjectively shitty enough.

8/26/2013 7:17:49 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure how much "gentrification" is going on when Marbles, Tir Na Nog, Pour House, Caffe Luna, Rum Runners, etc. and much of City Market's commercial tenants have been there for 10 years plus."

It's not them.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2013/08/why-this-man-is-betting-40-million-on.html

Quote :

"Raleigh is “ripe” for more urban infill projects like the The Lincoln apartment project near downtown’s Moore Square."

We have to get the homeless people out because those people are thinking of moving in.

[Edited on August 26, 2013 at 7:44 PM. Reason : ]

8/26/2013 7:42:50 PM

I've been homeless. It fuckin sucks in an urban environment.
I have gotten help in the form of food from these folks. I wrote the mayor
About this issue not that it will do a damn bit of good. Whatever the motive it's bull
Shit. I could rant on this for hours. Fuck cops and politicians. Vote from the rooftops!

8/26/2013 7:55:08 PM

Unfortunately they don't have people like me who can easily spot things that matter - i.e. name brand clothing and shoes - and kick those people out of line. But then again, I'm not one of those gullible religious people and I have shit to do on Saturdays. Plus I don't like contributing to MAKING THE PROBLEM WORSE.

8/26/2013 8:04:05 PM

^^ I'd imagine it would suck 10x worse in a rural setting

8/26/2013 8:47:25 PM

Man dies after Moore Square food give-away stabbing: http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/9224489/

NEVER FORGET

8/26/2013 9:01:43 PM

free food for life

8/26/2013 9:03:47 PM

Quote :

"Police said that Jackson and Coleman were involved in an altercation earlier."

I still think it was the food line that caused the stabbing, not any prior beef the two may have had

8/26/2013 9:08:03 PM

only motherfuckers that never lived anywhere out of the suburban culdesac are actually adbvocating that bums have the right to be where the hell they want

theyre a complete nuisance most times especially when they are allowed to take up "permanent" residence in a section of town due to lax enforcement by government

they can take their aggressive, unmedicated, strung out asses the fuck on somewhere and any asshole that thinks they should be allowed to take over city property can go live with them.

I also hate that police just roll by while they drink on the street, throw litter about, and walk around taunting people. The cops just roll by not doing shit, its been going on so long its too late to start now without the public bitching about it. I say drop the fuckin hammer

8/26/2013 9:08:13 PM

UncleTomSunday

8/26/2013 9:10:02 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure how much "gentrification" is going on when Marbles, Tir Na Nog, Pour House, Caffe Luna, Rum Runners, etc. and much of City Market's commercial tenants have been there for 10 years plus. Maybe it's less gentrification and more "enough's enough." There are resources throughout downtown. The bus depot is enough of a magnet for the homeless - giving them free food on the weekends just makes it even more so. Tir na Nog used to be one of my favorite bars when I lived in Raleigh but it just got frustrating after awhile. You'd get aggressively panhandled every single time you sat outside. "

According to some here, the aggressive thing NEVER happens. Just ask the person with 50 friends.

Well put on the other points.

8/26/2013 9:10:29 PM

^^^



[Edited on August 26, 2013 at 9:10 PM. Reason : d]

8/26/2013 9:10:30 PM

what does being a uncle tom have to do with the homeless? do you think only blacks can be homeless? moron

8/26/2013 9:11:21 PM

I got news for some of you. If they eliminate the free food giveaways on the weekends, there are still gonna be homeless people in downtown Raleigh, and you are still gonna possibly get hassled leaving the bar one night.

Unless somehow there are no homeless people asking for money on Monday through Friday, and they just happen to show up on Saturday morning, and then pack up their shit in a bundled hankerchief on a wooden stick and move along come Sunday evening to some other place.

8/26/2013 9:12:22 PM

in a perfect world thered be private companies that come around to relocate them to natural areas like alligators

8/26/2013 9:13:38 PM

In a realistic world, they're gonna congregate in some shitty park in downtown Bumfuck, NC where they can take a shit behind a tree, while all the other neighborhoods in the city don't have to deal with them.

8/26/2013 9:14:30 PM

no one is trying to get rid of homeless you dumb fuck

8/26/2013 9:16:27 PM

Quote :

"what does being a uncle tom have to do with the homeless? do you think only blacks can be homeless? moron"

None of that sounds like a denial

8/26/2013 9:18:21 PM

^^read your own posts in this thread dumb fuck

you want them out of "your neighborhood"

[Edited on August 26, 2013 at 9:18 PM. Reason : ^^]

8/26/2013 9:18:27 PM

nope, wrong

i don't want someone serving food in a park in my neighborhood

8/26/2013 9:21:52 PM

Fuck the oreo blacks
too busy jockin the other
you dont know your color
you need to be hangin wit ya sistas and brothas

8/26/2013 9:23:16 PM

so if Love Wins paid the $800/day permit fee to legally serve food in your park, would you be fine with that? Or would you still want those filthy homeless people out of your shitty downtown neighborhood?

8/26/2013 9:23:34 PM

i would not still be okay if they paid $800, because i do not want them serving food in the park

8/26/2013 9:25:08 PM