Depends if you're inside of 20 ft (on a flat grading)

[Edited on May 28, 2014 at 11:46 AM. Reason : knife vs gun]

5/28/2014 11:45:47 AM

They are roommates. They live in one dorm together. Knife is quicker.

[Edited on May 28, 2014 at 11:49 AM. Reason : And more convenient as long as the victims are not Bruce Lee]

5/28/2014 11:48:15 AM

This kid thought merely owning a gun made up for him being pathetic and cowardly. Maybe if society didn't associate gun ownership with self worth, he wouldn't have felt compelled to drift that way to make up for his inadequacies.

And the few incidences of mass stabbing have been far less deadly than mass shootings... Not even sure why someone would even try to argue knives are less safe than guns.

But I mostly agree with EMCE. Crazy people will eventually pop, it's just a matter of trying to get this explosion to not be a mass shooting.

5/28/2014 11:53:41 AM

Quote :

"Maybe if society didn't associate gun ownership with self worth, he wouldn't have felt compelled to drift that way to make up for his inadequacies. "

That is a little ridiculous don't you think? People associate all kinds of material ownership with self worth, not just guns.

5/28/2014 12:25:29 PM

The core problem of this case is obviously not about shooting and gun violence, but the discrimination to the Chinese community.
Remember he killed half of the victims by knife, not gun.

5/28/2014 1:01:48 PM

^^ fewer people are buying more guns, the gun nut culture is strong

5/28/2014 1:07:48 PM

I was gonna hold off on buying another gun...but I think its time to buy an ASSAULT WEAPON

5/28/2014 1:16:39 PM

buy now (or a week ago anyways, i bet prices are already rising) then sell when someone mentions an AWB

5/28/2014 1:17:59 PM

http://us.cnn.com/2014/05/27/justice/california-elliot-rodger-wealth/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

5/28/2014 1:18:02 PM

Quote :

"That is a little ridiculous don't you think? People associate all kinds of material ownership with self worth, not just guns. "

Ha, of course. But in this case, this guy specifically said having a gun made him feel powerful.

Owning a nice car, or the best phone, or expensive sun glasses, or a big TV, or whatever don't pose a danger to others, or encourage people to go on a killing spree.

I'm not saying guns are the problem here (i know that's what you're reading). But it's wrong to pretend that mass shootings are inevitable.

Things aren't inevitable, actions have consequences, we CAN change things if we wanted to. It may be hard for a single person to realize this, being 1 of 300,000,000 human beings in this country, but you don't have to personally see how change is possible to believe it.

5/28/2014 1:21:00 PM

He had a BMW, $300 sunglasses...it wasn't enough.

5/28/2014 1:23:00 PM

You're never going to be able to stop 100% of the crazy people from doing crazy things. Ever.

5/28/2014 1:24:12 PM

^ few things are 100%, but there's no reason to believe a goal of 99% isn't attainable (however impractical).

But the alternative isn't to just do nothing, which is what a certain segment of the political spectrum wants.

5/28/2014 1:27:40 PM

pretty fucked up the way he talked about his parents, especially after it was stated that his mom bought him the BMW And paid for his rent.

5/28/2014 1:29:21 PM

what's worse, this event or the >80 gun deaths in the week leading up to it?

5/28/2014 1:33:39 PM

Quote :

"‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens NEWS IN BRIEF • Guns • Violence • News • ISSUE 50•21 • May 27, 2014 ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”"

5/28/2014 1:43:53 PM

^^ answer is obvious, but this one hits close to hollywood, and they do have a powerful sway in the public's perception.

5/28/2014 2:06:53 PM

3 Black guys got shot up at black bike week, wheres the outrage.

^^ Give that man some cut and this wouldn't have happened. He wrote a book about how this could have been stopped.

[Edited on May 28, 2014 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/28/2014 2:09:36 PM

My entire facebook feed is shared articles about "It's not because of bullying, violent video games, or mental illness, it because HERPY DERRPY DERRR DEE DURRR DOOOOPY DEEEE. DERRPY DOODY DOOP DEEE DERRRR DEE DURRRR."

5/28/2014 2:09:54 PM

my facebook feed is filled with #yesallwomen shit

5/28/2014 2:10:47 PM

My facebook feed is full of porn, I'm talking full penetration, black guy on white girl porn.

I see less porn TWW than facebook.

5/28/2014 2:13:11 PM

It's more clear to me now that he's just an absolute loser, little related with race. His family is going bankruptcy and he can't afford that.

He loves his Asian mom, and wished she marries a rich guy

5/28/2014 2:47:49 PM

My FB had nothing about this, just a lot of the usual attention whoring.

5/28/2014 3:16:59 PM

I have reorganized my posts from this thread into an easy to read "Essay" on the topic of Mass shooters. This is not a fully in depth thesis, just my observations based on many years of heavy research, and first hand dealings with criminal psychos and psychotics. Dont be plagiarizing my shit.

Warning WORDS

Quote :

"Psycho or Psychotic. There is a huge difference in the two. Sociopath means the same thing, but most in the field prefer the word psychopath now. I dont have all the facts, but Im guessing he, Elliot Rodger, is most likely psychotic. MOST mass shooters have been psychotic. A few, like Eric Harris, were psychopathic. Charles Whitman, 1966 University of Texas, would be one of the first mass school shootings. Guess what, he was psychotic. If he, Elliot Rodger, was psychopathic, he most likely would have had much more success with the ladies, since among some psycho traits are charisma, arrogance, charm, confidence, ego-centrism, etc. In watching his videos, he, Elliot Rodger, sounds much more like a Dylan Klebold type of personality, with severe depression, avoidance, delusions, and jealousy. Whats the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? They are basically synonymous. Psychologists and medical use psychopath, social scientists use sociopath. But psychopath is the more accepted term for this type of personality disorder. I recommend Dr. Robert Hare's research on psychopaths and psychopathic traits. He is the leader in the field as far as Im concerned. Im not saying this Rodgers kid couldn't have been a psycho, but it does not appear that way based on his low self esteem, low confidence, etc. It is absolutely possible for a psychotic killer and a psycho killer to have a superiority complex and to be delusional, but the psycho is generally going to be the one who comes across to others as genuinely confident, well adjusted, normal, and with high self esteem. It is possible for a psychotic to exhibit psycho traits, but their overall personality would not reflect it. Confidence and self esteem do not equal psycho. Most people are confident and have self esteem and are not psychos. I think like only 1% of all people are labeled as psychos, but like 25% of prison inmates are on the psycho spectrum. The main negative traits of a psycho are: a complete lack of empathy, no remorse for others, extreme selfishness, egocentric, egotistical, no conscience, impulsive, pathological liar etc. But psychos are also very confident, charming, narcissistic, and able to present themselves well. They are genuinely confident because they are so egotistical and narcissistic. Physiological diagnosis are always on a spectrum and scale. Its not black and white As far as psychos and remorse, they often have little to no remorse or compassion for their victims. Occasionally they may feel remorse if their actions hurt a loved one, but it is usually short lived. They will stab a friend or loved one in the back in a heart beat to meet their own needs first. If a psycho does feel remorse for a crime, it is generally not remorse for the victim (No empathy) it is remorse for themselves. They are mad they got caught, are being charged and punished. They feel they are above the law and system. They will FAKE remorse to a judge, counselor, parole board etc because it helps THEIR situation and needs. They don't give a damn about the victims or those they hurt, but they present a charming and convincing front to those that can benefit them. Even a trained counselor can be fooled by the con of a convincing psycho, which is why knowledge of criminal psychology is important. Most psychopaths are NOT killers. They are con men, they are thieves, they want your money, they are career criminals or they may not be a criminal at all. They may be regular business men, or family men, but they display the traits of psychopathy. I say men because for some reason, psychopathy mainly affects only men. Psychos who kill often do it for two main reasons: a) it was the only way to ensure their needs were met (backed into a corner, risk of getting caught), or (b) they enjoy it and it excites them. Jason Young, the former NCSU grad who killed his wife Michelle, is a text book psycho. He was tired of being married, so he kills her. It was to ensure his needs are met, not giving a damn about the victim or her life. It was a means to an end to make himself happy. He had no intent on getting caught, and he planned and covered his tracks well. A psycho serial killer, or an Eric Harris mass murderer does it because it excites them. It is acting out their superiority beliefs. It is control over another person whom they could care less about. It is being above the rules. Eric Harris was playing God because it excited him and he felt superior and vengeful to those he felt beneath him. he was living out his wrath and hate of those he deemed inferior. A psycho killer, like a psychotic, may leave a manifesto, and they may sound similar to each other. But one needs to examine the personalities, thought process, and motives first to figure out which side of the coin the killer is. A psychos manifesto is bragging about their superiority. They will often send the police clues to taunt them. To match wits with the law. They feel they are superior, and can win the game of chess. Anything they reveal is by CHOICE, they are NOT trying to get caught. They would never reveal their true intentions. If they do release their intent, it is often to be found after the deed is done, as a legacy to themselves. Psychos may believe that they are a god, but they don't believe that they are God. They generally do not cry for help or leak stuff to friends hoping subconsciously to be caught. A psychotic manifesto may sound similar as far as superiority, but there is usually an element of depression, persecution complex, loss of touch with reality, delusions, conspiracies plotted against them, preoccupations or fixations, bizarre writing and word choices or syntax, disorganized thoughts, suicidal ideations, bizarre ideas, believing that they are not human or truly are God, and other odd ideas. A self aware person struggling with psychosis may cry out for help before they act (this is common with suicide). They are more inclined to post publicly their intentions and feelings. They may leak more specific details about a plot. A psycho does not want to be caught and will cover their tracks, a psychotic may be more sloppy. Again, these terms are on a spectrum. Psychopathy is not even considered a mental illness by some, but rather the way a persons brain and thought process is hard wired from birth."

Quote :

" Now its not to say that a psychotic shooter cant exhibit psychopathic traits in planning or executing a shooting (no conscience, no remorse, meticulous planning, no empathy etc) , but their overall psychological profile fits much more into the psychotic realm, (ie delusions, disorganized thought process, hallucinations, depression, suicidal, preoccupations, etc) To give two stark contrasts of a mass killers behavior during a rampage: Eric Harris (Psycho) Laughing, Taunting, Mocking Victims, Having Fun, Playing God, Hate, Anger, Superiority Complex, Vengeful Dylan Klebold (Psychotic) Much more subdued, showed mercy often, seeking approval of Eric the alpha of the dyad, and much more detached. Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho (Very Psychotic) Blank emotionless stare during rampage, silent, detatched Another comparison between a psycho and psychotic. Eric Harris was in court mandated first offenders counseling for about a year before the shooting. No one had a clue. His counselor thought he was doing great, and that he was remorseful for breaking into a van. He, as a psycho, was a pathological liar and was charismatic and excellent at "impression management", which is a term used when Psychos hide their true nature. He had his counselor totally fooled. In his private journal he had nothing but contempt for the punishment and counseling, and felt the law did not apply to him, but he was great at playing it off. James Holmes, the psychotic Aurora movie theater shooter told his counselor several times that he was having violent thoughts, fantasies, and plans. I recall he gave the counselor his journal admitting his plans. Generally speaking, a psycho would never admit their true intentions, whether it is a con or murder. They would lie lie lie and make people think they are charming and perfect. A self aware person with varying degrees of psychosis may very well seek help if they feel reality slipping away. "

Quote :

"Mental illness is just one piece of the mass shooter phenomenon, but a large one. Most mentally ill people are NOT mass killers, and MOST mass killers ARE mentally ill. Just like violent video games. Millions play violent video games and most are NOT mass killers, but MOST mass killers ARE obsessed with violent video games. It often falls into the psychotic trait of obsession and preoccupations. A psychotic becomes OBSESSED with the violent games, more so than a regular kid. This was especially true with Adam Lanza. It became all he did, playing these violent games. He lost touch with all reality, staying in the basement for extended periods of time playing. "

5/28/2014 7:37:27 PM

Quote :

"The reason it is usually suburban or rural white kids has a lot to do with the culture script which has been written. Basically, the rampage is now seen as the answer because others have done the same thing before them. Violence is seen as masculine, in various media forms. To a kid who has PERCEIVED that he has been weak marginalized (the key word is perception because most shooters actually were quite popular with friends in their own social circles, but they perceived that they were mistreated and marginalized) than a violent blaze of glory is seen as a way of taking back what they feel is missing. Part of the culture script which has been written by this trend is the knowledge that they will be famous. An anti-hero if you will. To a disturbed marginalized person who feels weak and emasculated, nothing says masculinity like a violent revenge fantasy going down in a blaze of glory type event. That is how this mass shooting thing BECAME a culture script. In media, movies, music, TV, violence and revenge fantasy is seen as tough and masculine. To normal well adjusted people, it is just fantasy, media, fiction etc. But to a mentally disturbed marginalized kid, it is a real idea. Once you factor in the fact that others have done this before him, and they were made famous, well now the next potential dumbass has a culture script to follow. The cycle repeats itself. That is the problem with this phenomenon. It feeds on itself. Generally, marginalized black youth have different culture scripts for hyper masculinity. Not to sound racist, but "thug culture", gangs, ostentatious behavior and dress, hyper sexuality, things like that. Its not to say that these things dont apply across race or culture, but Im generalizing here. "

Quote :

"Also, the reason you see most mass shootings in a school or college is because to a teen or early 20 something, the school is their life. It is the central aspect of their daily life. The school itself is the target, rarely are there specific intended victims. The school itself is the cause of their social ills, or marginalization. The school, youth culture, sports, cliques, socialization, popularity, etc is the root of their perceived misfortune and mistreatment. So attacking the school itself is a way of lashing out against what they feel has wronged them. Contrary to popular belief, the Columbine killers were not targeting jocks, christians, blacks, popular kids...they were killing indiscriminately. they did not care who they killed. their original plan that did not work was to propane bomb the school, killing everyone even people they liked....the school itself was the target of the rage. The reason they tend to be rural or suburban is because the school is often the focal point of the community in a small town. people follow the sports teams, people know each other, its a smaller tighter community, and in a small community there is often less options for marginalized youth to be accepted. In a large urban center, there can be more options and more chances for kids to fit in with others like them, with less focus on the school social world. "

Quote :

"Oh......and I have to address the elephant. Bullying. Contrary to popular belief, most school shooters were not bullied. At least not any more than any other kid growing up in school. Being called a name, or being made fun of occasionally does not equate extreme bullying as the media would have you believe. A lot of shooters were actually seen as the bullies by their peers. Or, they acted out such an extreme manner that it brought disapproval by their peers. This is very true of Eric Harris, who would shout nazi crap in school. Getting picked on for acting like a dick does not really equate to bullying. If the Columbine killers, Eric and Dylan, were so brutally picked on by jocks and cool kids, why did they not target or kill a single one of their oppressors? Why did they plan on killing EVERYONE indiscriminately? Extreme Nutshell Answer: Eric Harris was a deeply psychopathic kid. He had a superiority complex, he was highly intelligent, and felt that everyone else was inferior. He hated the world and mankind, not just the school. He wanted to kill all those he deemed inferior. He wanted the power, control, the excitement, and the fun of enacting his world view on those he deemed inferior. He lacked empathy and compassion, he was a pathological liar, he did not care about the impact he would have on others. Planning and executing a massacre gave him the SAME level of excitement (power, superiority, control) that a psychopathic serial killer obtains by stalking and killing. Eric Harris was a text book psycho. Dylan Klebold had psychotic traits. He suffered severe depression, severe low self esteem, shyness, and avoidant personality disorder. Despite actually being intelligent and well liked in his social circle, he perceived that he was a miserable failure. He spent his whole time in high school contemplating his death and suicide. He latched on to his best friend Erics world view, and was manipulated by him. He feared losing his best friend, and went along with it. All the reports during the shooting claim the Dylan was constantly being egged on by Eric, seemed more hesitant, and Dylan often showed mercy by sparing lives. Eric, the psycho, was having the time of his life. Taunting, mocking, playing God. They did not target anyone specific, it was indiscriminate. The bully myth of Columbine came out in the aftermath, in the fog of war and search for EASY ANSWERS. Hint, there ARE NO EASY ANSWERS. All of these incidents require more research and analysis than just a soundbite easy answer. Hell, even if a shooter WAS bullied, its dishonest to say "well he was bullied, case closed". Again, its not to say that bullying may not have been a FACTOR in some of these incidents, but to claim that it was the main cause is incorrect, simplistic, and dishonest."

5/28/2014 7:38:13 PM

Quote :

" The point is that these kids were not normal well adjusted kids, and may have been affected by bullying in a different way than a normal kid. Also, being bullied for acting like a dick or a moron, like many of the shooters (Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Michael Carneal) does not equate to normal bullying. And a severely psychotic kid (Adam Lanza, Michael Carneal, Seung-Hui Cho) with paranoia, will take taunting and bullying much differently than a normal well adjusted kid. My point is that bullying alone is a SIMPLE FUCKING ANSWER to a complex tragedy. All I ask is people dig a little deeper and do some research. "

Quote :

"I would like to touch on another myth of the school or even work place mass shooter...They were pushed and bullied and they just one day SNAPPED. This could not be further from the truth. In fact in all my research I did not find one incident that could be chalked up to "snapping". For the purpose of this piece, I define "snapping" as basically an unplanned spontaneous decision to act out violently. Little to no premeditation. What kills me the most about the so called analysis of mass shooters by the media talking heads, is how little they actually know and how far up their asses their heads are. It is ALWAYS a search for easy answers and simple reasons to blame. Guns, bullying, teasing, video games, family, music, Marilyn Manson. etc. Even when they occasionally get it right, they never delve deeper into it. "How did this normal kid snap and do this?" they ask... The simple fucking answer is that THESE ARE NOT NORMAL PEOPLE. Mass shooters are NOT normal, normal people very seldom do this kind of thing. The overwhelming majority of shooters are deeply disturbed mentally ill people. The most common category is Psychotic shooters, ones who were diagnosed or displayed various psychotic traits. These people did not snap. Every normal person growing up in school has faced some difficulty. We were all called names at some point, or picked on by an older or bigger kid. We all faced rejection at some point growing up, we all felt awkward or like we didn't fit it. It is a normal part of growing up. To millions of well adjusted kids, they deal with it, get over it, and handle it without going on a mass rampage. But, to a non-well adjusted kid with some kind of metal illness, these common stresses are multiplied. Even to a psychotic kid who has friends and is well liked (Dylan Klebold, had friends, girlfriends, played sports, went to prom etc), they still perceive that they are hated and don't fit in. They can perceive that everyone is having more fun, or other guys do better with girls. In their head, they feel much more outcasted than they often are. They feel alienated and picked on, even if it is not really the case. To a very very disturbed psychotic (Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho), they are already not well adjusted and have poor social skills. They don't fit in from the start, but then see every slight, joke or failure against them as exponentially worse than a normal person. Yes kids can be cruel, and can pick on them for the lack of social skills, but these slights are multiplied by the extreme. When you factor in schizotypal traits like delusions, paranoid delusions, conspiracies against them, god complexes, depression etc, than these slights or bullying becomes toxic. It is not bullying alone, it is a tragic combination of factors in the wrong person that can build to a plot. When you add in the culture script of a mass school shooting, now these kids have a path to follow. They have a way to right their perceived wrongs and lash out at their perceived oppressors. They have a way to feel violent, masculine and powerful, after feeling marginalized. Its sad, but this is the truth. Anyone trying to pass off a mass shooting (that isn't terrorist or political in motivation) as an easy answer is a moron. It is a multi faceted combination of elements in the right person and circumstance that can lead to tragedy."

Quote :

"The reason there are SO many myths, half-truths, and false information about these types of mass shooting events is quite simple. In a 24 hour news cycle, the media will flood a scene and begin reporting instantly. Right off the bat during the fog of war, misinformation and speculation are put out over the airwaves. Usually the initial reports are totally wrong. Witness accounts are usually wrong. Interviews are taken as fact "oh yeah, i knew the shooter, he was picked on" "he was a goth kid" "he was a fag" "he was an outcast". This becomes fact in the public mind. To fill the news cycle, talking heads speculate about video games, gun control, bullying, the psychological makeup of the shooter, etc. After a few weeks, the media circus leaves town and the story fades. It is usually years before the investigations are done and the true facts are released. The media does not cover this, and the myths have already taken hold. I read the Columbine final report, it disproved pretty much EVERY myth about Columbine. I read the Sandy Hook final report, same thing. Sometimes a little critical thinking and research is needed before assuming something. "

---Id also like to point out that all of my info in this thread is based on my knowledge n research, I have Googled or Wikipediaed NOTHING.---

5/28/2014 7:39:01 PM

haha, goddammit red baron 22

5/28/2014 7:42:20 PM

Yeah I was just about to plagiarize this sweet line for one of my peer reviewed scientific papers:

Quote :

"I think like only 1% of all people are labeled as psychos, but like 25% of prison inmates are on the psycho spectrum."

5/28/2014 7:42:25 PM

^^He's a phd of Psychology.

5/28/2014 8:31:40 PM

Thats got outside sales meme written all over it.

5/28/2014 9:09:29 PM

^^im pretty sure, without googling, that as many as 1 in 25 people could be considered to be sociopathic, according to the book the sociopath next door

5/28/2014 9:47:19 PM

^^^^^He's killin me.

5/28/2014 10:40:57 PM

i'm starting to think that red baron 22 may have googled some of this shit

5/28/2014 10:46:25 PM

I googled nothing. I can post my bibliography if needed. i didnt cite anything, but the list of books i have read to obtain a lot of my information.

The opinions formed are my own. And like i said, I have a lot of first hand dealings with the criminally mentally ill.

Quote :

"im pretty sure, without googling, that as many as 1 in 25 people could be considered to be sociopathic, according to the book the sociopath next door"

My stats may be wrong, like i said, i have not googled them. and please stop using sociopath, the preferred word is psychopath.

5/28/2014 11:15:08 PM

Based on my empirical research and general musings, I think he borderline, pschzoid, kray-kray

5/28/2014 11:20:25 PM

I googled nothing. I can post my bibliography if needed the bibliography from the bottom of some wikipedia pages because I'm a fucking fraud atop an ivory tower of lies

5/28/2014 11:30:25 PM

Quote :

"What is, however, rather obvious is that these types of incidents are occurring with more and more regularity and nobody seems to have a fucking clue about how to collectively fix it."

Do you care to defend that assertion?
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/165757356.html

5/28/2014 11:39:54 PM

yeah, because it's still 2010. Thanks, Obama

5/28/2014 11:51:26 PM

Feel free to continue that dataset

5/28/2014 11:52:37 PM

i've got better things to do with my time, retard.

5/28/2014 11:55:03 PM

It's obvious we just need to do whatever they were doing in 1985.

Guys, I'm afraid we gotta bring back Wham!

5/29/2014 12:06:32 AM

i have said it many times, mainly in reference to the school mass shooting rampage, the paradigm and culture script has been written, thereby giving disturbed psychotic kids a path to follow. It feeds on itself. But the key common denominator here is mental illness.

That common fact holds true in these same type events that have occurred elsewhere in the world. Canada, Australia, Norway, Germany.

5/29/2014 12:52:07 AM

Quote :

"Most mentally ill people are NOT mass killers, and MOST mass killers ARE mentally ill."

no shit? this is some groundbreaking shit you're posting here.

5/29/2014 1:02:29 AM

http://www.motherjones.com/special-reports/2012/12/guns-in-america-mass-shootings

5/29/2014 2:06:02 AM

This is old, but:
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

Quote :

"10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes. —Dave Gilson on Thu. January 31, 2013 7:01 AM PDT By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes. Myth #1: They're coming for your guns. Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. gun ownership Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people. Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate. ownership vs gun death Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society. Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively. • Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without. • In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides. Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys. Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0 • Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5 Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer. Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun. • For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home. • 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm. • In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger. Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer. Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime. • In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument. • A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater. Myth #7: Guns make women safer. Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers. • A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun. • One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates. Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns. Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan? United States Japan Per capita spending on video games $44 $55 Civilian firearms per 100 people 88 0.6 Gun homicides in 2008 11,030 11 Sources: PricewaterhouseCoopers, Small Arms Survey (PDF), UN Office on Drugs and Crime Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners. Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population. • About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun. • Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each. Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have. Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally. • Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way. • An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check. • 20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers. • The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement that the Senate approve nominees."

[Edited on May 29, 2014 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ]

5/29/2014 9:46:52 AM

^and a respone to that: http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2014/01/evaluating-mother-jones-10-pro-gun-myths-shot-down/

5/29/2014 9:54:02 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "Most mentally ill people are NOT mass killers, and MOST mass killers ARE mentally ill." no shit? this is some groundbreaking shit you're posting here."

it's a relevant point when people talk about needing more gun control for the "mentally ill" without explaining, or even attempting to try to explain, what kind of mental illnesses, who would decide whether someone is mentally ill, how we would decide whether someone is mentally ill, and how controls would be enforced.

5/29/2014 11:35:18 AM

^^ thanks for posting that rebuttal to your own post, lol. it thoroughly destroys the piece moron posted from mj as well.

5/29/2014 6:37:01 PM

lol, that's a pretty terrible rebuttal, all of the sources are just links to John Lott books or blogs about them.

5/29/2014 7:18:09 PM

Sometimes I feel like I don't even want to lift in this country anymore.

5/29/2014 9:41:58 PM