And every gun purchase should include an NICS check

6/19/2015 1:00:05 PM

Open the system to private individuals

6/19/2015 1:01:28 PM

i'm okay with that if there is a sufficient system to hold people accountable to that

6/19/2015 1:04:29 PM

Quote :

"If you can't do something with a 100% effectiveness rate you shouldn't do it at all."

Obviously there should be effective laws that prevent felons and mentally ill people from legally getting guns. My point was, for calculated mass shootings (worst case scenarios) it won't be an effective deterrent.

The conservative argument is, that in a case like this, the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. You would want a system that gives good people more access and bad people less access, and if bad people ignore the law then the laws only restrict good people.

6/19/2015 1:09:10 PM

that's why gun policy needs to be set with normal crime in mind and not statistically rare events

6/19/2015 1:20:13 PM

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/19/jeb_bushs_pathetic_charleston_dodge_i_dont_know_if_white_supremacist_suspect_was_motivated_by_racism/

6/19/2015 1:35:49 PM

While I wouldn't even wipe my ass with Salon if it were printed media, I have to agree with that article. It is sad to see all of the R candidates try to dodge that this was motivated by racism. The guy was a nut. Instead of a religious nut intent on killing infidels, he is a racist nut intent on killing black people.

6/19/2015 1:38:18 PM

I don't even see why they would dodge that. Seems like a pretty straight forward thing to me.

6/19/2015 1:43:22 PM

white suprimicists vote, too

6/19/2015 1:47:16 PM

Quote :

"that's why gun policy needs to be set with normal crime in mind and not statistically rare event"

I agree but the problem is the discussion only comes up after these statistically rare events.

6/19/2015 1:48:34 PM

another false flag gun control race baiting big pharma "attack" to keep our attentions on things other than those of other importance

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2015 2:06:07 PM

Sandy Hook
Binghamton Immigration Center
Ft. Hood
Aurora, Colorado
Geneva County, Alabama
Portland Mall Shooting
Sikh Temple
Jared Loughner
Amy Bishop
Santa Clara
Carthage Nursing Home
Minneapolis Sign Company
Seattle Coffee House
Tulsa, Okla. white supremacists
Oikos University
Seal Beach Salon
Nevada IHOP
Connecticut Beer Distributor

that's a selection of mass murders that happened from 2008-2012. by no means exhaustive. 146 deaths.

I'm not so sure we should be calling something that happens about once a quarter in the US a "rare" event. it's statistically unlikely for you to be killed in one of these. but you have a greater chance of being slain in a mass murder than you do in an airline crash.

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2015 2:15:05 PM

Quote :

"white suprimicists vote, too"

Ah yes, the ever elusive white supremacist swing vote

6/19/2015 2:18:38 PM

^^because in that same period about 75,000 were the victims of gun homicide

.2% is pretty insignificant and should not be what drives policy

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2015 2:20:38 PM

Do you not think there is a sizable voting bloc that harbors racist feelings? White supremacist is probably a bit strong but if they started working towards equal access to opportunity they would absolutely upset a not marginal size of voters.

6/19/2015 2:22:09 PM

perhaps I should have broadened it out and used the term racists as opposed to white supremacists

but the point is still the same

6/19/2015 2:23:04 PM

Quote :

"Do you not think there is a sizable voting bloc that harbors racist feelings?"

Lemme translate what he's trying to say here:

"Do you not think there is a Tea Party?"

6/19/2015 2:24:17 PM

Quote :

"every gun purchase should include an NICS check"

+1

6/19/2015 2:32:03 PM

6/19/2015 3:18:53 PM

Quote :

"Instead of a religious nut intent on killing infidels, he is a racist nut intent on killing black people."

[goalielax]He's not a nut...he's just racist!! [/goalielax]

6/19/2015 3:22:29 PM

Quote :

"And every gun purchase should include an NICS check"

I'm ok with this as long as they take the serial number off the form.

6/19/2015 3:31:12 PM

Quote :

"Do you not think there is a sizable voting bloc that harbors racist feelings? White supremacist is probably a bit strong but if they started working towards equal access to opportunity they would absolutely upset a not marginal size of voters."

I am hardly a political strategist but in my mind you would probably be better off to do things like admit the obvious in situations like this. I doubt admitting that these murders were done out of racism would lose you too many votes whereas the majority would be in agreement rather than face palming.

6/19/2015 3:40:48 PM

How long does a handgun last? Like is it something people keep in good working condition for 30-40 years? How long would we need to wait after the handgun ban for them to be gone?

6/19/2015 3:41:04 PM

indefinitely

6/19/2015 3:41:49 PM

Quote :

"I'm ok with this as long as they take the serial number off the form."

so you plan on keeping an illegal weapon if a law changed in the future?

6/19/2015 3:45:05 PM

I feel like that was a farsical question

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ^^^]

6/19/2015 3:45:29 PM

^^no, US law explicitly prohibits a firearm registry and that's exactly what a stack of papers with owners' names and the firearm serial numbers on them is.

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 3:49 PM. Reason : i guess we could get rid of that law. good luck LOL]

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ^nah, he's shown that he knows little about firearms in other threads over the years]

6/19/2015 3:48:26 PM

6/19/2015 3:49:56 PM

Quote :

"I feel like that was a farsical question"

there isn't another reason to not want the serial number recorded unless you are worried that someone is going to come looking for it in the future

the serial number is important because that accountability is what is needed to prevent straw sales, there has to be some kind of record of the transaction

(i am both a gun owner and concealed carry holder)

6/19/2015 3:52:18 PM

Quote :

"^^no, US law explicitly prohibits a firearm registry and that's exactly what a stack of papers with owners' names and the firearm serial numbers on them is."

the context of the statement is in regards to opening it to private citizens, keeping a record of your own sale is not illegal and does not violate FOPA

#schooled

6/19/2015 3:55:10 PM

^^ I was referring to the "how long a handgun lasts" question

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/19/2015 3:57:25 PM

ah, opening it to private citizens is a different step altogether. i'm for that. and if someone wants to keep a record of their private sale, that's obviously fine.

what "closing the private sale loophole" usually means is making two private parties meet at an FFL and perform the transfer with the same paperwork as if it was bought from the FFL. this is what two private parties must do now if they are not citizens of the same state.

6/19/2015 4:00:03 PM

but it needs to be required that the seller keeps a record of the sale, or otherwise it's not doing much

going through a FFL is ideal, but i'd personally be fine with allowing direct private sales with a sufficient accountability system if that was a sticking point needed to compromise

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 4:06 PM. Reason : serial number is not illegal on form at FFL because FOPA is only for future changes]

6/19/2015 4:04:31 PM

What would a gun ban law do about kids strapping on the way to the classroom? How would such legislation impact their ability to get weapons with the greatest of ease?

6/19/2015 5:49:48 PM

DON'T CHU DAR TRY N TAKE MAH GUNZ. MURICA

6/19/2015 6:14:18 PM

^seriously, more kids die from a TV falling on them than school shootings [/sandy hooks]

6/19/2015 7:01:48 PM

Quote :

"“He’s guilty as hell,” Carson Cowles, uncle of Dylann Roof, told the Los Angeles Times in a telephone interview. His nephew is going to “ride the lightning,” Cowles told The Times, referring to the death penalty. “He’s going to pay for what he’s done. I’d pull the switch myself, if they’d let me.” Roof’s mother is devastated, Cowles said, but he refused to comment further, saying it was a personal matter. Cowles said the family was repelled by what his nephew is accused of doing. “He’ll get no sympathy from us, any of us.”"

http://gawker.com/dylann-roofs-uncle-guilty-nephew-should-ride-the-li-1712590024

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131858/Charleston-killer-Dylann-Roof-grew-fractured-home-violent-father-beat-stepmother-hired-private-detective-follow-split-claims-court-papers.html

Here's his dad:







[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 10:49 PM. Reason : ]

6/19/2015 10:29:49 PM

Quote :

"His nephew is going to “ride the lightning,” Cowles told The Times"

lol

I laughed too much when I read that.

6/19/2015 11:08:30 PM

Quote :

"I'm not so sure we should be calling something that happens about once a quarter in the US a "rare" event. it's statistically unlikely for you to be killed in one of these. but you have a greater chance of being slain in a mass murder than you do in an airline crash."

That's because you don't understand statistics. The number of deaths in mass murders per gun owned in the US is incredibly insignificant. You don't look at the millions of guns that aren't used in mass murders, because that's just not how our brains work. Our brains focus on statistical outliers instead of normal average trends. With 300mill+ people and 100mill+ guns, the fact that we've had so few mass shootings absolutely makes them outliers and "rare events." There's been, what, 300 deaths from mass shootings over the last decade, and while that sucks, it's barely 1% of 1% of 1% of the population. There are literally more times that people are struck by lightning than mass shootings, and we consider fatal lightning strikes to be rare occurrences.

6/19/2015 11:58:37 PM

Who cares if a small percentage if guns are killing people. The other guns arent saving many lives or making life any better. All3 events are rare.

But its not ok to say 20 5 year olds being murdered is ok just because most guns arent being used to do the same.

6/20/2015 12:03:20 AM

Where did I say mass murders were ok? Good strawman, bro.

6/20/2015 12:06:11 AM

Make no mistake. You said it When you said we shouldnt have mass gun control.

6/20/2015 12:10:29 AM

Oh, so now you're just making shit up. Cool. carry on, troll

6/20/2015 12:11:39 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/?tid=sm_fb

WP claims for every criminal killed in self defense, 34 innocent people die

6/20/2015 12:12:16 AM

In what world is it logical to use the killing of a criminal as the sole metric for when a gun was successfully used in self-defense? There's lies, damned lies, and statistics; then there's this!

6/20/2015 12:17:45 AM

I love how the anti-gun control crowd keeps using these ridiculous comparisons between mass shooting deaths and lightening deaths, school shooting deaths and deaths caused by TV's falling on children, etc.

Red herrings.

Find me some ridiculous statistic to compare to the 33,000+ people killed by guns annually in this country.


[Edited on June 20, 2015 at 12:30 AM. Reason : OH BUT THE FLU KILLS MORE. BAN THE FLU!!!!!!!!!]

6/20/2015 12:29:42 AM

I like how the pro-gun control crowd points out an obvious problem, like innocent people are killed by guns sometimes, but doesn't offer a realistic solution

6/20/2015 12:41:36 AM

Quote :

"Rand Paul: "What kind of person goes into a church and shoots nine people? There's a sickness in our country, but it's not going to be solved by our government." Chris Christie: "Laws can't change this. Only the goodwill and the love of the American people can let those folks know that that act was unacceptable, disgraceful, and that we need to do more to show that we love each other." President Obama: "The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history. This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals." Hillary Clinton: "In order to make sense of it, we have to be honest. We have to face hard truths about race, violence, guns, and division.""

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/19/415747034/predictably-democrats-republicans-dont-agree-on-charleston-causes-solutions

^ there is no one magical solution, and I guess that's your point...but realistic ideas have been put forth in this very thread! Look around.

6/20/2015 12:42:17 AM

The nuanced language of lack of effort. So sad.

6/20/2015 12:43:56 AM

I think they are realistic policies because its proven that they could be done in a way that solves all the problems almost overnight.

They are not realistic because backwards nutjobs will even consider it much less let it happen in a million years.

6/20/2015 12:47:52 AM