Quote :

"Well, he didn't outright say it but it's strongly implied he's reluctant to call it what it is, even in the face of overwhelming evidence it was an act of terrorism."

that's entirely on you

it's absurd that there is a sizable enough group that can find fault in his statement

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 11:52 AM. Reason : .]

12/4/2015 11:51:44 AM

Quote :

"You know what the phrases we don't know and it's possible mean right?"

If someone wrecks their car and has a BAC of, say, 0.24 do we ever say "it's possible alcohol was a factor but we need more research"? The guy was in contact with ISIS leaders, he had a stash of weapons and ammo, they were making pipe bombs to be set off by remote control. What more do you want to classify this as terrorism?

In any case, Fort Hood was not workplace violence and it's still classified as such. It's like some kind of profound retardation that causes severe denial of facts.

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 11:55 AM. Reason : e]

12/4/2015 11:52:34 AM

As a supporter of the Constitution, including the 2nd amendment...

Quote :

"On that note crazy where a significant % of the country thinks the world magically appeared 6000 years ago, that global climate change is some sort of anti-american anti-freedom conspiracy by 99% of the scientific world, and while bitching about welfare they want to defund Planned Parenthood that helps decrease unwanted children many of whom are born into families that then need more welfare."

Quote :

"Crazy how we live in country where gun ownerships is a Constitutional right, while healthcare is considered a privilege."

I believe in climate change, I believe in assistance to those in need, I have no issues with Planned Parenthood, and I think access to healthcare is a basic human right.

12/4/2015 11:59:13 AM

but but but Planned Parenthood murders babies and sells their tissues on the black market and gives their bloods to terrorist witch doctors living in Afghanistan!

12/4/2015 12:00:32 PM

Quote :

"Your position is especially stupid given that this is looking like both terrorism and workplace violence"

Are we now classifying terrorist attacks as "workplace violence" also, in order to push the gun control angle?

Sure this ISIS Middle Eastern guy was manufacturing pipebombs, but this was just a water cooler argument that got too escalated... that could have been prevented by even stricter Californian gun laws

12/4/2015 12:01:24 PM

Female shooter had pledged allegiance to ISIS

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-attackers-tried-to-cover-their-tracks-official-says/?hpid=hp_rhp-banner-main_ledeall-950am-duplicate%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

12/4/2015 12:02:32 PM

Quote :

"If someone wrecks their car and has a BAC of, say, 0.24 do we ever say "it's possible alcohol was a factor but we need more research"? The guy was in contact with ISIS leaders, he had a stash of weapons and ammo, they were making pipe bombs to be set off by remote control. What more do you want to classify this as terrorism? "

you know you're stretching when you're comparing a situation as complex/far-reaching as this with an alcohol-related crash

it's amazing that you aren't a professional investigator with the skills you're showcasing

12/4/2015 12:02:41 PM

Quote :

"you know you're stretching when you're comparing a situation as complex/far-reaching as this with an alcohol-related crash it's amazing that you aren't a professional investigator with the skills you're showcasing"

It's only complex for people who don't want to admit the truth, it was a terrorist attack that was planned, and Obama is too PC to come out and say it.

Hey, while you're at it: December 7th marks the anniversary of a tragic aviation disaster.

12/4/2015 12:10:27 PM

there's nothing PC about not jumping to conclusions in the middle of an investigation and there never has been

that's standard operating procedure, from a local level all the way (and especially) to the head of state

this is how these things go

12/4/2015 12:16:37 PM

"terrorism" is a designation based on motivation and intention (or at least it should be)

12/4/2015 12:22:47 PM

I hope people don't forget the fact that one of the shooters was an American. Because that matters! Or something.



[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2015 12:26:12 PM

It's pretty clear they wanted this to be a terrorist attack, but did such a stupid job of choosing a target that it just wasn't that clear what they were going for, which undermines the effect of "terror".

Considering that people don't seem anywhere near as scared as past terror attacks, Facebook isn't changing profile pictures, France isn't lighting up their monuments with our flag, they failed at the terrorism part. No one's scared, we're just pissed.

12/4/2015 12:42:12 PM

but only pissed enough to just pray about it

12/4/2015 12:49:09 PM

Quote :

"On that note crazy where a significant % of the country thinks the world magically appeared 6000 years ago, that global climate change is some sort of anti-american anti-freedom conspiracy by 99% of the scientific world, and while bitching about welfare they want to defund Planned Parenthood that helps decrease unwanted children many of whom are born into families that then need more welfare."

Damn, HUR actually speaking some truth here. It's also a country where people care more about their individual rights than they do about society as a whole and the people around them. Ultimately that's the mindset that needs to be changed. Frankly the government is going to have to do this for us because it seems like people are getting more and more insular. Either that or a dramatic event like world war that unites us to a common cause.

12/4/2015 12:52:48 PM

Poor bastard. People have his jihad mission confused with an every day Amercian mass shooting. #FAIL

12/4/2015 1:05:28 PM

when there are so many mass shootings that no one is sure about your motivation and you weren't even the only mass shooting that day #jihadproblems

12/4/2015 1:08:07 PM

wtf?
MSNBC Reporter Rifles Through San Bernardino Shooters' Apartment In Insane Live Shot
http://gawker.com/msnbc-reporter-rifles-through-san-bernardino-shooters-a-1746220523

12/4/2015 1:36:07 PM

GOOD NEWS EVERYBODY

ONE OF THE THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THREE MASS SHOOTINGS THIS YEAR WAS, IN FACT, TERRORISM

SO THERE ARE REALLY ONLY THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY TWO MASS SHOOTINGS THIS YEAR

THAT MEANS THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED BY TERRORISTS ON AMERICAN SOIL SINCE 9/11 IS MATCHED BY THE NUMBER OF FIREARM MURDERS EVERY 36 HOURS AND NOT EVERY 35.9 HOURS

WE DID IT!!

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 2:12 PM. Reason : fucking idiots]

12/4/2015 2:11:23 PM

Quote :

"Poor bastard. People have his jihad mission confused with an every day Amercian mass shooting. #FAIL"

So 14 of the 12,255 gun deaths this year were reclassified as a terrorist attack. 0.11%. Because of this we can completely ignore any discussions around guns.

12/4/2015 2:24:06 PM

Quote :

"Damn, HUR actually speaking some truth here. It's also a country where people care more about their individual rights than they do about society as a whole and the people around them. Ultimately that's the mindset that needs to be changed."

I generally agree with most the liberals on here except for when it comes to all this PC shit and simpleton victimization mentality when it comes to allegedly marginalized oppressed minorities.

Quote :

"Poor bastard. People have his jihad mission confused with an every day American mass shooting. #FAIL"

My thoughts exactly!

Quote :

"So 14 of the 12,255 gun deaths this year were reclassified as a terrorist attack."

I think several of the mass shooting this year could be classified as terrorist attacks. As the assailant had
political motivations (i.e. the planned parent hood killings in CO or the #BLM guy killing white media people in VA)

12/4/2015 2:33:32 PM

Quote :

"Are we now classifying terrorist attacks as "workplace violence" also, in order to push the gun control angle?"

No, we're classifying this as workplace violence cause a dude went to his workplace and did violent shit.

It's also being classified as terrorism: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-isis-20151204-story.html

12/4/2015 2:57:16 PM

We've begun defining terrorism too narrowly.

12/4/2015 3:02:43 PM

Reminds me of the tragic aviation accidents in New York and the Pentagon back in 2001, also classified as a terrorist attack.

12/4/2015 3:08:02 PM

To call this workplace violence is just downright dishonest.

Sounds like he had a plan, and something happened to make him change his target at the last minute.

12/4/2015 3:09:56 PM

JCE misses the point. Per usual.

Was this attack terrorism? And France? And 9/11? Absolutely.

But so are instances like the PP Shooting the other week.

Islamic Extremist Violence = Terrorism

Not all Terrorism = Islamic Extremist Violence.

Terrorism = The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political/religious aims.


[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ]

12/4/2015 3:11:27 PM

Quote :

"To call this workplace violence is just downright dishonest."

Oh, so he didn't walk into his workplace and do some violent shit?

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:21 PM. Reason : ^ yup]

12/4/2015 3:20:17 PM

Quote :

"But so are instances like the PP Shooting the other week."

Where did I say that wasn't terrorism? Did I miss "the point" or as usual, can you not read?

12/4/2015 3:24:54 PM

Quote :

"Crazy how we live in country where gun ownerships is a Constitutional right, while healthcare is considered a privilege."

Gun ownership is a negative right; the government, according to the law, isn't allowed to prevent you from owning a gun.

Free/subsidized health care would be a positive right; you feel you shouldn't have to pay for health care services.

Health care, education, roads, police - none of these things are rights in the traditional sense. They're services that you think are better provided by the government. You can be perfectly free while still having to pay for all of those things.

12/4/2015 3:32:29 PM

Quote :

"you feel you shouldn't have to pay for health care services."

Wrong.

YOU feel that its normal that we're the only first world country that doesn't do this. American exceptionalism is the fucking worst. What you are really saying is "you feel that GDP shouldn't go up because a 'citizen' is unhealthy"

Think about it for one second. Why should the most prosperous land not provide basic services (the right to a healthy life) that less prosperous places have no problem providing? I could understand your argument if the price disparities in healthcare weren't so shitty and regulations weren't based around keeping people in the health care system as long as possible, but given the state of what our healthcare industry is -- none of those people are your friends.

What do you personally gain by arguing that other people who are not you should have to pay for healthcare?

[Edited on December 4, 2015 at 3:44 PM. Reason : think about it :^)]

12/4/2015 3:38:36 PM

ib we have to hear about his taxes

12/4/2015 3:44:39 PM

lol marco rubio talking out his ass about bomb control

motherfucker, you go try and buy a truckload of ammonium nitrate and see how that works out for you

you know why we don't talk about trying to stop another OKC bombing?

because we've made it virtually impossible for an extremist to buy that much bomb making material

12/4/2015 3:48:01 PM

That is the general idea I think most people want behind gun control as well. People are clearly still making bombs and such, but it became very difficult to get a hold of material that could be used to make bombs that did massive damage. Most gun control people don't want all guns banished or taken away, they just want it to be very difficult for people to get a hold of guns that lets face it are only made to kill in mass. Can you kill a ton of people with a hand gun? Of course you can but it sure is a lot easier with an assault rifle or two.

12/4/2015 4:05:55 PM

Quote :

"YOU feel that its normal that we're the only first world country that doesn't do this. American exceptionalism is the fucking worst. What you are really saying is "you feel that GDP shouldn't go up because a 'citizen' is unhealthy""

It has nothing to do with what I feel. Most developed countries do have some form of subsidized health care.

What government ought to provide is entirely preferential. When the preferences of the many exceed the preferences of the few, that preference becomes law.

Quote :

"Think about it for one second. Why should the most prosperous land not provide basic services (the right to a healthy life) that less prosperous places have no problem providing? I could understand your argument if the price disparities in healthcare weren't so shitty and regulations weren't based around keeping people in the health care system as long as possible, but given the state of what our healthcare industry is -- none of those people are your friends. "

Let me make sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that national governments should always provide the same subsidies that other, poorer national governments provide? Is that a categorically true statement?

Quote :

"What do you personally gain by arguing that other people who are not you should have to pay for healthcare?"

Who are you suggesting will pay for it?

12/4/2015 4:09:16 PM

Quote :

"Who are you suggesting will pay for it?"

I called it.

12/4/2015 4:15:00 PM

Impressive.

12/4/2015 6:22:48 PM

Quote :

"Poor bastard. People have his jihad mission confused with an every day Amercian mass shooting."

Doesn't matter what you call it, dead is dead.

Maybe CNN ratings go up one way or another but it won't make a difference to the dead people if it was a cop, terrorist or a radical of some other sort.

12/4/2015 6:43:49 PM

We need to take that baby out

12/4/2015 11:11:37 PM

Is it normal practice to handcuff a dead body lying face down on the road in a pool of blood?

12/5/2015 1:33:27 AM

12/5/2015 2:37:49 AM

^this guy gets it

12/5/2015 2:56:56 AM

Quote :

"wtf? MSNBC Reporter Rifles Through San Bernardino Shooters' Apartment In Insane Live Shot http://gawker.com/msnbc-reporter-rifles-through-san-bernardino-shooters-a-1746220523 "

I find this very weird and wrong.

The landlord let news channels into the apartment, from ABC News to XYZ News, they took pictures of everything, even kitchen utensils, and rummaged through (and photographed) private stuff like family photos, ID cards, and other personal/legal documents. It is just a normal home with lots of clutter... OMG THEY HAD AN ARABIC BOOK IN THE HOUSE

Has this ever happened before? A voyeuristic orgy of reporters inside a dead killer's house?

There is like eleventy billion pictures in here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3345982/Photos-toys-Muslim-books-seen-inside-San-Bernardino-killers-home-wife-pledged-allegiance-ISIS-Facebook-couple-launched-attack.html

12/5/2015 5:51:42 AM

^ That is not normal, and certainly raises serious ethics concerns. I'm a bit surprised CNN and MSNBC opted to broadcast that type of information to viewers, which in my opinion jeopardizes their stance on journalistic integrity.

12/5/2015 8:55:57 AM

why is 'planned parenthood' in the thread title? what agenda is being pushed? (didn't read all 6 pages, sorry)

that type of misleading, knee jerk info is why we are so divided as a country now.

All anyone has to say is 'shooting near so and so street in san berandino' and then report the FACTS as they come about.

not that hard.

12/5/2015 9:39:20 AM

Are we really divided?

I thought most of us just wanted to get drunk and celebrate Christmastime.

Maybe sleep with a coworker or two.

12/5/2015 10:29:17 AM

Planned parenthood is the only thing in that part of the city (south waterman) that would seem like a noteworthy target for a terrorist attack. People want to call this workplace violence because it just doesn't make sense. If they really wanted to kill a lot of people they could have went and shot anywhere else up, escaped without anyone knowing who they were and been able to get at least one other attack in.

12/5/2015 11:41:07 AM

Quote :

"why is 'planned parenthood' in the thread title? what agenda is being pushed? (didn't read all 6 pages, sorry) that type of misleading, knee jerk info is why we are so divided as a country now. All anyone has to say is 'shooting near so and so street in san berandino' and then report the FACTS as they come about. not that hard."

Because E Man gets all of his information from the HuffingtonPost and preaches it like gospel.

12/5/2015 12:23:00 PM

None of the media had reported this when i found out about it. My friends in the area heard about it on twitter/police scannerd. Cnn reported it about 30 minutes later.

12/5/2015 1:37:03 PM

Quote :

"why is 'planned parenthood' in the thread title?"

12/5/2015 1:41:51 PM

I watched the media rushing in to the house live on tv, it was definitely odd.

Sure it was in poor taste...but I cant really see why people are pissed. I do not think dead terrorists have any right to privacy.

A journalist offered the landlord $1000 to be allowed in first, and his building has thousands in damage from the police raid. I would have taken the money too, then auctioned off the rest of their shit, then filed a law suit against their estate for the damage to the apartment so their family cant get any money out of it. The landlord is just the last in line of many that they fucked over in some way.

12/5/2015 4:56:08 PM

And the family is first in line after the victims of course

12/5/2015 5:03:54 PM