is that not how it already works?

3/17/2016 8:22:44 AM

Quote :

"And maybe lower taxes! Everyone I think would like less money taken out of their paycheck."

Unfortunately this never actually happens the govt is always gonna get theirs. If they lower your income tax you are just getting taxed somewhere else to make up for it. Sure our state income taxes go down next year but every time you get your car worked on now or get something like a dishwasher installed at your house you are paying tax on the labor as well.

3/17/2016 8:25:30 AM

Quote :

"Once you are caught committing another crime, they determine you have no US identity, you are held (like any criminal is currently) and then put on a bus or plane"

And how do you propose to deport the other millions of illegal immigrants that don't commit a crime that get them caught up in the justice system?

There's a whole lot of latent racism in that statement...

3/17/2016 8:29:52 AM

more of a shower thought this morning, i feel the more non-whites are seen protesting his rallies, the more polarized white people are to vote for him. I think most can recognize its a network of people following his rallies doing stupid shit.

3/17/2016 9:02:05 AM

Quote :

"And how do you propose to deport the other millions of illegal immigrants that don't commit a crime that get them caught up in the justice system? There's a whole lot of latent racism in that statement..."

Again, words are made up that I never said. Not even a good effort. I don't care what country you are from, if you are here illegally, you need to leave. Quickly.

Obviously the method I quickly outlined would not catch all illegals, but at least it would be a start and show some backbone. Yes, we do send some people back, but its a inefficient process and it has been widely reported that the Fed gov't has stepped in and told local gov't to not bother making/enforcing laws that protect their citizens. Good for votes I guess.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/what-the-arizona-immigration-decision-means/

3/17/2016 10:03:40 AM

Quote :

"Usually too busy working to try and feed their kids and not taking gov't support."

As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are generally...busy working, feeding their kids, and not being allowed to receive most forms of government support?

Quote :

"So no border/border security at all? Come and go as you please?"

Not what I said. However, the level of border security necessary to put a serious dent in illegal immigration would be far more costly, dangerous, and morally dubious than the "problem" of illegal immigration warrants.

Quote :

"Why should I be happy that the population isn't shrinking? I'd much rather have the population shrink than the people who can't get a job in their own country sneaking into ours."

Shrinking populations are bad. This isn't speculation. We can see it in Japan. Germany could see it in their own country -- part of why they let in so many Syrians.

When a population shrinks, that means that there are few young, working people relative to the large number of old, non-working people. In a country with things like Social Security and Medicare, that's bad. When an illegal immigrant is paid legally, they contribute to Social Security and Medicare -- things that they will never be able to take advantage of. They're free money, in that regard. Of course, if they're being paid $4/hr under the table by some shady-ass tomato farmer, that's not true. But I'd argue that the problem there is the farmer who is violating several laws in a way that actually hurts people.

---

Then you go on to call a study by people with advanced degrees in things like demography and economics "speculation" before ignoring its figures because they seem too large to you.

Never mind that they are backed up by different studies from different groups:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34789502

Quote :

"Based on an analysis for 5 million people, the Centre for American Progress estimates that a mass deportation from the US would cost an average of $10,070 (£6,624) per person. For 11.3 million people, that's $114bn (£75bn). And that would cover only the basic operational costs - apprehension, detention, legal processing, and deportation. According to the AAF, the total cost of a 20-year mass deportation programme would be somewhere between $420 and $620 billion. But we're not finished yet, there's still the impact on the economy. The AAF report, published earlier this year, estimates that undocumented immigrants made up 6.4% of the country's labour force - about 11 million workers - in 2014. It predicts that deporting all of those workers would shrink the US economy by nearly 6%, or $1.6 trillion, by 2035. That's not to mention the enormous potential for lawsuits and reparations claims filed against the government."

Also, never mind the fact that THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT DOES THE DEPORTING offers similar figures:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trumps-deportation-plan-would-cost-100-200-billion

Quote :

"Back in 2011, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) deputy director Kumar Kibble said it costs $12,500 to deport an individual undocumented immigrant. So when you multiply that cost for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S., that comes to $137.5 billion."

Quote :

" Once you are caught committing another crime, they determine you have no US identity, you are held (like any criminal is currently) and then put on a bus or plane."

What percentage of illegal immigrants do you think are committing other crimes? For the vast majority, the only illegal thing they do is walk across an invisible line in the desert.

Quote :

" However, it is disheartening to think that our economic growth and security is tied to the illegal alien population."

Then you are stupid.

Illegal immigrants make up 6.4% of the US labor force and comprise 11.4 million people who buy goods and services. If you are surprised to hear that removing those numbers from the economy would be bad for it, you are not intelligent, and you cannot blame your lack of intelligence on illegal immigrants.

11.4 million people is comparable to the population of North Carolina. If every North Carolinian were raptured tomorrow, you don't think that would have a pretty significant negative fucking impact on the country's economy?

3/17/2016 11:32:29 AM

Walmart would feel it. FO SHO

3/17/2016 12:39:44 PM

Quote :

"11.4 million people is comparable to the population of North Carolina. If every North Carolinian were raptured tomorrow, you don't think that would have a pretty significant negative fucking impact on the country's economy?"

Well put in a very easy to comprehend comparison.

3/17/2016 12:46:54 PM

Quote :

"Not what I said. However, the level of border security necessary to put a serious dent in illegal immigration would be far more costly, dangerous, and morally dubious than the "problem" of illegal immigration warrants."

Morally dubious to enforce the law and want to have people come into this country legally and on the books for citizen safety and tax revenue? I find it morally wrong that a person is allowed to break the law and face no repercussions.

Quote :

"As opposed to illegal immigrants, who are generally...busy working, feeding their kids, and not being allowed to receive most forms of government support?"

You seem to keep looking past the 'illegal' part. why should they receive tax payer benefits?

Quote :

" Shrinking populations are bad."

For a short while, probably yes. Then we react and make the needed changes. No one ever thought the population of the world could continue to grow forever, so it should not be a surprise when populations level out or even decline. Populations of all species rise and fall. Still is no reason to allow random people in all willy nilly. The net population of the world is still the same. And we are a world economy these days.

Quote :

"Then you go on to call a study by people with advanced degrees in things like demography and economics "speculation" before ignoring its figures because they seem too large to you. Never mind that they are backed up by different studies from different groups:"

The figures are the result of rabid waste and inefficiencies. Yes, I read the numbers, and I can believe them. Doesn't mean that they are the end of discussions. If we were to get serious, then we would find streamlined and efficient ways to deal, otherwise, yes, we couldn't afford to do it.

Quote :

"what percentage of illegal immigrants do you think are committing other crimes? For the vast majority, the only illegal thing they do is walk across an invisible line in the desert."

probably a small percentage. Doesn't matter. Quite often we hear of stories where the police force is overworked and understaffed, and this is just to deal with the crimes US citizens commit. Why subject ourselves to more work? An invisible line? Yes. But those lines mean an awful lot to an awful lot of people. N. Korea takes those lines pretty serious.

Quote :

"11.4 million people is comparable to the population of North Carolina. If every North Carolinian were raptured tomorrow, you don't think that would have a pretty significant negative fucking impact on the country's economy?"

Sure it would, for a while. No reason to get hostile. But it sounds like you are implying that the US economy can't support itself without illegal immigrants shopping at walmart. We were fine before, and would be fine after. But all 11 million wouldn't be deported at one time, so the affects would not be that great.

3/17/2016 12:59:13 PM

im fine with deporting them but the issue is way down on the list of priorities for this country right now

[Edited on March 17, 2016 at 1:21 PM. Reason : it's at 'mild nuisance' level at best]

3/17/2016 1:20:30 PM

Don't need to deport them, just punish the businesses and employers that hire them, they'll leave when the jobs dry up.

3/17/2016 1:25:41 PM

Quote :

"And? If you are here illegally, yes, I don't care what ethnicity you are. "

you obviously do if you're going to complain about pressing 1 for English

because when you complain about it, you're telling on yourself. you're lumping in all Spanish-speaking people with illegal immigrants, which is wrong and incredibly ignorant. you've done a great job of proving how ignorant you are on these last few pages, so congrats on that.

3/17/2016 1:26:16 PM

Aha, yeah, you never hear anyone complain about that azn dude who overstayed his work visa, and is here illegally.

3/17/2016 1:29:16 PM

damned shoot

3/17/2016 1:36:49 PM

Quote :

"you obviously do if you're going to complain about pressing 1 for English"

I didn't create the phone system. Someone felt the need to create a system where you have to choose English or another language (usually Spanish) How am I ignorant about that?

I understand what you are saying, not all Spanish speakers are illegal aliens. Duh.

And again, I don't care what ethnicity you are illegal is illegal.

If there are so many illegal Asian immigrants overstaying visas and what not, why is there no option on the phone to choose 3 for other languages?

It's easy to pick and choose talking points.

3/17/2016 1:37:58 PM

talking points?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

3/17/2016 2:56:31 PM

North Carolina 9,656,401 65.3 8.4 21.5 1.3 2.2 0.1 2.2

#NCSoWhite

3/17/2016 3:18:22 PM

didn't get a chance to dig too deep into that article (busy at work)

It appears to say that overall population here in the US is going up due to immigration (and makes up for the lower birthrate of natives)

Not arguing that. It is easy to see that the immigrant population (of a variety of races and ethnicity) has been growing at a pretty good pace for quite some time. No news there.

Also seems that the Census Bureau is a bit confused, and skews the numbers when they lump "Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who reported "White" or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish." into the definition of 'white'

3/17/2016 3:25:28 PM

people really complain because they spend like 3 seconds listening to a recording asking them to press a button for which language they speak? christ.

3/17/2016 3:37:07 PM

too busy at work to read article...

...not too busy to post on TWW.

got it.

3/17/2016 3:38:09 PM

^^^ Something to think about. As I am sure you know laws change over time. The laws which control immigration have changed over time as well. In the mid to late 1800's there were very few laws or quotas in place to stop the flow of people (I think there was a ban on Chinese people at one point in the 1880's).

In 1880 the US pop was 50,100,000. Around 5.2 million people came here between 1880 and 1890. Most of them where Germans, Irish, Italians, and other random europeans. This is the entirely of my family and why I and most of us are here. If we put quotas on how many poor shitty europeans came over in the 1880's how many of us would be here right now and would the USA be the great nation is it now?

[Edited on March 17, 2016 at 3:42 PM. Reason : ^^^]

3/17/2016 3:42:32 PM

Quote :

"didn't get a chance to dig too deep into that article (busy at work) It appears to say that overall population here in the US is going up due to immigration (and makes up for the lower birthrate of natives)..."

***WHOOSH***

3/17/2016 3:48:02 PM

Quote :

"Also seems that the Census Bureau is a bit confused, and skews the numbers when they lump "Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who reported "White" or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish." into the definition of 'white'"

Also technically all of these people are Caucasian.

3/17/2016 4:13:38 PM

Quote :

"You seem to keep looking past the 'illegal' part. why should they receive tax payer benefits?"

I DIDN'T SAY THEY SHOULD, YOU DIM-WITTED FUCK! I SAID THEY DON'T!

You held up legal immigrants as this great standard of working family people who aren't leeches on government support, and I pointed out that illegal immigrants are generally working family people who can't be leeches on government support.

Quote :

" I find it morally wrong that a person is allowed to break the law and face no repercussions."

So you think Rosa Parks should have been arrested for riding in the front of the bus. Got it.

Read what I said again. I did not say that enforcing the law is morally dubious. I said that the level of security necessary to seriously reduce illegal immigration would be costly, dangerous, and morally dubious. It would require the use of life-threatening measures against economic migrants and the forcible separation of families. There isn't a way around these facts. I hope we can all agree that there is or should be some moral qualms about shooting a guy who wants to pick tomatoes or making a kid an orphan because his parents aren't citizens. For me, those moral qualms are too great to be justified by the "problem" of illegal immigration.

Quote :

"For a short while, probably yes. Then we react and make the needed changes. No one ever thought the population of the world could continue to grow forever, so it should not be a surprise when populations level out or even decline. Populations of all species rise and fall. Still is no reason to allow random people in all willy nilly. The net population of the world is still the same. And we are a world economy these days"

1) So you are so angry at the prospect of "pressing 1 for English" that you are perfectly willing to torpedo the American economy "for a short while." Great.
2) Nobody is advocating letting people in "willy nilly." It isn't an either/or choice between our current draconian immigration rules and just opening the doors and declaring a free-for-all.
3) We're not talking about the human species. We're talking about the US, which is part of a world economy. If America has a shrinking population in a world economy where other countries have growing populations, we will suffer.

Quote :

"The figures are the result of rabid waste and inefficiencies. Yes, I read the numbers, and I can believe them."

Well, that's not what you said, though. You said they were "speculation...extremely excessive and biased."

So you're backtracking, which is allowed, but I want you to be aware that you're doing it because otherwise you are just thoughtlessly saying anything that you think will defend your position.

Your assertion that somehow we would just become super efficient at deporting people, now that is pure speculation put forward by exactly one person -- you -- in the face of several studies by scholars in the field, and in the face of the people who actually handle deportations.

Quote :

"An invisible line? Yes. But those lines mean an awful lot to an awful lot of people. N. Korea takes those lines pretty serious."

I'm glad to hear that we're holding ourselves to the high standards set by North fucking Korea.

Quote :

" But it sounds like you are implying that the US economy can't support itself without illegal immigrants shopping at walmart. We were fine before, and would be fine after. But all 11 million wouldn't be deported at one time, so the affects would not be that great."

Did illegal immigrants make you unable to recognize the difference between "affects" and "effects?" Never mind. This little quote from you doesn't even make sense. We were fine "before?" Before what? Before we had illegal immigrants? Before we had illegal immigrants, we didn't have laws preventing immigration.

I don't think that illegal immigration is the only thing holding up the American economy. I didn't make that claim. Your understanding of this argument is weak if you though I was making that claim. The economy would survive, but it would suffer, and our economy isn't so great at the moment anyway. Is it worth further weakening it?

At least you aren't denying that there would be negative economic effects. So my question to you is this: How bad would those effects have to be? How much would deportation have to cost the American government and economy before you thought it was no longer worth it? I've already shown you research pointing to figures in the trillions of dollars.

And another question: What do you think the current costs of illegal immigration are? You're clearly under the impression that the country is straining under the burden of them. Show me a number. How much does illegal immigration cost us?

And if illegal immigration can be shown to cost less than any reasonable estimate for deporting immigrants, will you change your mind? Or do you care more about "pressing 1 for English" than about the economic impacts of the things you are suggesting?

3/17/2016 5:50:49 PM

Quote :

"Aha, yeah, you never hear anyone complain about that azn dude who overstayed his work visa, and is here illegally."

I would imaging H1B abuse does more damage to middle class wages in this country than illegal Mexican migrants do. I have recruiters constantly sending engineering resumes to me for H1B and TN1 engineers that they like to tout because of their cheap salary requirements compared to American engineers. Whenever I question them about the H1B vetting process, they tell me not to worry about it and that's what part of the recruiting fee goes towards.

3/17/2016 6:12:28 PM

also, it's worth pointing out that benXJ seems to be under the impression that he's the only one in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who just happen to be convicted of serious crimes (aside from being illegal immigrants). i don't think many people will argue against that. isn't that kinda how it's supposed to work now?

3/17/2016 7:08:51 PM

^^ When I worked in consulting they loved to hire people on visas because they would sponsor them and they pretty much couldn't quit. I had a senior manager straight up admit that's why they do it because so many people will quit after 2 years of so if they don't have that holding them up.

3/17/2016 8:51:27 PM

Quote :

" it's worth pointing out that benXJ seems to be under the impression that he's the only one in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who just happen to be convicted of serious crimes"

Except that he wants to deport every single illegal immigrant.

Quote :

"Name one reason why deporting all illegal aliens is wrong? Is all punishment of crimes wrong? Without using your heart, use your brain. Who said anything about rounding them up like animals? Don't put words in my mouth. THEY BROKE THE LAW. Right in front of our faces. Do you know how much of a burden one illegal immigrant who uses our hospitals and other public services puts on the tax system vs. putting them on a Greyhound bus and sending them back? I'd wager a $50 air conditioned bus ticket would be cheaper, and then you are done. Feel free to come back the honest, legal way, like so many people do every year. What harm would that put on the economy? So what there aren't people to cut your grass or pick strawberries or paint your siding. There are plenty of people that are citizens who need jobs. And the whole they WON'T do it, yes they will, when the gov't checks and free cell phones stop showing up. All these issues are tied together."

3/17/2016 9:01:23 PM

^well, yeah, he's been saying they should all be deported, but...i was referring to this mostly (from bottom of last page)

Quote :

"We aren't gonna hire an entire new police force to go door to door. Once you are caught committing another crime, they determine you have no US identity, you are held (like any criminal is currently) and then put on a bus or plane. Cheaper than 3 hots and a cot for a year or more. Slow and steady. Not overnight. "

just kinda pointing out that he's been all over the place on this. "deport them all", "deport them when they are arrested for something else"...big difference in those two.

[Edited on March 17, 2016 at 9:39 PM. Reason : m]

3/17/2016 9:38:16 PM

Well, Mr. Deport'em, why don't you ask the government to raise your taxes and not mine, because I don't care to waste my tax dollars on a mass deportation scheme.

3/18/2016 8:41:50 AM

Raising taxes to deport illegal immigrants is a hilarious situation.

3/18/2016 11:06:53 AM

Yeah, deporting people who commit (serious) crimes is something pretty much everybody can get behind. I'm for a much, much more open immigration policy, but criminal activity would be a dealbreaker.

3/18/2016 11:58:18 AM

I think we should deport all criminals.

3/18/2016 12:38:20 PM

Australians are people, too

3/18/2016 12:45:19 PM

Are they still accepting criminals? That could work.

3/18/2016 12:47:44 PM

They aren't accepting criminals. They are criminals.

3/18/2016 12:55:48 PM

Quote :

"Australians are people, too"

wtf stop perpetuating stereotypes k thanks

3/18/2016 12:57:24 PM

Obama's deporting more illegal immigrants than any other president, to the point immigration activists have been calling him the "deporter-in-chief" for years. His standard defense has always been that they're only deporting people who commit a serious crime.

3/18/2016 1:14:54 PM

Yes, I am in favor of deporting all people that are here illegally.

Yes, that may hurt the economy a bit. A big MAYBE. It would be such a slow process that no one city/state/employment sector would be hit hard all at once and would have time to react and find people to fill the spots. All 11 million at one time, no one ever thought that was possible. And yes, I agree, make it a serious offense to hire illegals.

Yes, laws change over time. Yes, in the beginning of the US, people flocked here from all over the world. THEN, we realized that this could not go on forever, so then we started keeping track of who came in and enforcing the border. We also implemented a way to immigrate legally. The door was not shut.

The cost to deport all 11 million people.....no one knows because its based on bloated numbers and numbers that no one can afford, so it would never happen on a grand scale like it is handled today. So yes, it is speculation and made to look so unobtainable that we would not even consider it.

Quote :

"Unfortunately this never actually happens the govt is always gonna get theirs. If they lower your income tax you are just getting taxed somewhere else to make up for it. Sure our state income taxes go down next year but every time you get your car worked on now or get something like a dishwasher installed at your house you are paying tax on the labor as well."

Yes, this is the underlying problem.

Quote :

"So you think Rosa Parks should have been arrested for riding in the front of the bus. Got it. Read what I said again. I did not say that enforcing the law is morally dubious. I said that the level of security necessary to seriously reduce illegal immigration would be costly, dangerous, and morally dubious. It would require the use of life-threatening measures against economic migrants and the forcible separation of families. There isn't a way around these facts. I hope we can all agree that there is or should be some moral qualms about shooting a guy who wants to pick tomatoes or making a kid an orphan because his parents aren't citizens. For me, those moral qualms are too great to be justified by the "problem" of illegal immigration."

Level of security? Border agents knocking on your door? Why are you worried? Shooting? Orphans? Seperating families? Come on now. Get these scare tactics out of here. Never once has anyone advocated physical violence. The United States gov't tried, to a point, to keep illegal immigration from happening. The people that spit in the face of our rules and laws by coming here and staying here off the books, and then having anchor babies, should be dealt with by deportation. Send the whole family back. Keep the family together. That is the moral thing to do.

Quote :

"3) We're not talking about the human species. We're talking about the US, which is part of a world economy. If America has a shrinking population in a world economy where other countries have growing populations, we will suffer. "

Not if we are more efficient and waste less tax dollars. Yes, we are talking about the human population. That's what makes up the humans that live here. It is a fluid number, rises and falls all the time, all over the world. Yes, the birthrate in America may be a bit low at this very moment, but NO ONE knows what the future will bring, so you can read the numbers all you like, but all of it can changed in an instant.

Quote :

"Your assertion that somehow we would just become super efficient at deporting people, now that is pure speculation put forward by exactly one person -- you -- in the face of several studies by scholars in the field, and in the face of the people who actually handle deportations."

I didn't say overnight. IF a president wanted to make his sole stance no illegal immigration, and actually back it up, then he would have to work VERY HARD to find an efficient way of doing it, or it would become a nightmare of costs and logistics. I have made this statement a few times before. I'm sure when JFK said we are going to the moon, the first cost estimates were unfathomable and many balked at the idea. But they got smart and got it done. I know these aren't the same things, but sticking hard and fast to a number that some think tanks came up with (when no one really knows how the process would be, or if it REALLY could be done) is not that convincing.

At least North Korea takes their borders serious. That is something.

And no, affect and effect don't mean the same thing. I hope you can look past my slight grammar mistake I made in haste.

Quote :

"Well, Mr. Deport'em, why don't you ask the government to raise your taxes and not mine, because I don't care to waste my tax dollars on a mass deportation scheme."

No tax increase. Like I said before, a major issue facing this country is the waste and abuse and absurd tax code and laws. It is all tied together, and hopefully a conservative president would understand that ANY tax increases are a strain on the lower and middle class and wouldn't do it.

Ya'll have a good weekend.

3/18/2016 1:45:49 PM

> THE GOVERNMENT IS INEFFICIENT, THEY NEED TO STAY OUT OF HEALTHCARE!!

> THE GOVERNMENT CAN DEPORT PEOPLE MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN ANYONE PREDICTS!!

3/18/2016 1:53:50 PM

Quote :

"At least you aren't denying that there would be negative economic effects. So my question to you is this: How bad would those effects have to be? How much would deportation have to cost the American government and economy before you thought it was no longer worth it? I've already shown you research pointing to figures in the trillions of dollars. And another question: What do you think the current costs of illegal immigration are? You're clearly under the impression that the country is straining under the burden of them. Show me a number. How much does illegal immigration cost us? And if illegal immigration can be shown to cost less than any reasonable estimate for deporting immigrants, will you change your mind? Or do you care more about "pressing 1 for English" than about the economic impacts of the things you are suggesting? "

These are the answers I want.

3/18/2016 2:00:58 PM

Quote :

"> THE GOVERNMENT IS INEFFICIENT, THEY NEED TO STAY OUT OF HEALTHCARE!! > THE GOVERNMENT CAN DEPORT PEOPLE MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN ANYONE PREDICTS!!"

Yes, you are correct on the first part. But no one is disputing that.

The second part is twisting what I typed. But you know that. Never said they could, said they would have to try, otherwise, as has been pointed out, we can't afford it.

3/18/2016 2:12:58 PM

Quote :

"These are the answers I want."

Lots of assumptions in that Trillions of dollars figure.

No one knows the number of illegal aliens in the US. Could be 1 million, could be 20 million. So no one knows what the total costs are. And, there are so many variables, it would be impossible to come up with an accurate cost, even if we knew the total number of people.

I just don't see how slowly, over many years, deporting illegal aliens (that may or may not pay taxes) would be a death blow to our economic well being. They aren't being raptured overnight, they are criminals that are being arrested. OK, so say they aren't deported, but are put in jail and held (this happens currently), they aren't contributing to society AND are a cost to the taxpayer. Double whammy.

Yes, they are a burden. For many reasons, and again a true dollar amount is hard to come up with. Hospital visits, working under the table and not paying taxes, police work, lining up a Western Union to send hundreds of millions of American dollars out of the country, etc. You seem to think that unless the figure is in the TRILLIONS then it shouldn't matter. But it does matter IF, magically, we didn't have illegal immigration, then the gov't could lessen the welfare state, then all of these jobs that Americans 'won't' do, will be filled by legal citizens that will have to work to eat. Win-win. You seem to forget about the millions of under-employed and unemployed that we here about everyday, and who need someone to help them. That is a huge burden on the economy and taxpayer as well.

IF, the cost of allowing a person to stay here and work (and a crapshoot if they pay taxes or not) can be shown to be less than deporting them, I'm fine with them staying. I think that would be hard to prove. But, when we have gov't agencies so inefficient that they can't get a person on a bus for less than 20 grand, then I guess anything is possible. I don't care about the ethnicity, where they came from, but I would like them to speak English, as I have pointed out. However, as I have stated before, I find it hard to believe that the cost of deporting someone is in the tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, I know what the numbers say, but what in the world is being done to cost that much?

3/18/2016 2:33:04 PM

you're so full of Truthiness that it's both sad and hilarious at the same time

3/18/2016 2:58:05 PM

Quote :

"a true dollar amount is hard to come up with"

Quote :

"lining up a Western Union to send hundreds of millions of American dollars out of the country"

3/18/2016 3:09:24 PM

that should have said a TOTAL dollar amount.

Well, western union keeps up with the amount of money they transfer, and where it goes, so that figure has been reported, and I feel is accurate.

3/18/2016 3:10:59 PM

Quote :

"it's both sad and hilarious at the same time"

Sorry that you are sad.

3/18/2016 3:12:13 PM

Why are we talking about this. SHIT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

3/18/2016 3:15:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWlUgI4cB4M

Greetings, Trump Supporters! | Full Frontal with Samantha Bee

3/18/2016 3:20:50 PM

^^^what a double posting faggot

3/18/2016 3:22:21 PM