shoot them down

10/18/2009 10:24:35 PM

A 9mm carbine is going to be fine, the problem is that there aren't any really good ones that are reasonably priced. For what you'd spend on a good one, you could buy a rifle-caliber carbine that runs a much more lethal cartridge.

I'd recommend something in 7.62x39 - they're *very* common and more than adequate against both two- and four-legged critters. SKS is a cheap(ish) 7.62 gun that can be fitted with a collapsible stock, and has a relatively compact design. The Mini-30 is another good choice in that caliber, and a much higher quality gun.

The Mini-30 posted above is a very good deal - the ammo and mags in that deal are worth around $200 and the rifle itself generally goes for around 600.

10/19/2009 11:20:51 AM

I was checking out the forums of the manufacturer of the AR I ordered and read this gem. After a discussion of suppressors, one forum member who is a federal armorer related a story told to him by a Surefire suppressor rep...

Quote :

"The Surefire Rep told us a pretty cool downrange story about their 7.62 machinegun can. I can't remember if I posted it here before, but basically the good guys engaged three Taliban in the open on the valley floor below them with a 240. Three Beards were in ranger file walking down the long axis of the beaten zone. The opening burst snapped over the heads of the other two, drilling the point man. The SNAP of the rounds confused the other two, the middle man thought the last shot the first. He spun around on the last man and they smoked each other. Meanwhile, the goodguys were like "No F-ing Way!!!""

link here : http://forum.lwrci.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

10/20/2009 11:51:00 PM

I just got my pistol permits and am now trying to decide what type of pistol to get. The main purpose will be for defense but still plan on going out to the range and shooting it from time to time as well. One of the guys I work with told me to get the Judge but I think I might want to find something a little more practical and cheaper for my first one. My price range is around $350 give or take. I think I would prefer the revolver myself, does anyone have any suggestions. I have only shot an old 38 single action and that was a long time ago so dont really remember much about it. If anyone would be willing to go out to the range sometime with me sometime and let me try a few of your pistols I would gladly pay for ammo and maybe a little extra if you needed.

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 7:10 AM. Reason : price range]

10/21/2009 7:09:05 AM

^yeh, the judge seems more like a novelty gun to me not to mention it's a good amount of money. I'm not into revolvers, so I can't help you there (besides telling you to do what you're trying to do - shoot other people's guns; PDHSC may have a few you can shoot). When you're ready to buy, check out carolinashootersforum.com as you can find some decent deals on there.

10/21/2009 8:05:06 AM

If you see me with a Judge then it was free or i stole it.

If you plan on shooting snakes or shooting clay for fun then I think it'd be great.
For defense I'd load it with 45 Long Colt. I know buckshot can kill, that's why people use it on deer. But, I don't think the performance of buckshot is as reliable as nice hollowpoints.
Some people also think buckshot negates the need to accurately aim at your target. This really isn't true. At a few yards the spread isn't big.

So, you gonna shoot snakes?
If not, get a normal gun. A Judge is too long with normal pistol loads.

You can often find a lightly used Ruger GP-100 for about $300-350. Call up PDHSC to see if they have any. A 4" model would be nice for defense and range shooting.

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ]

10/21/2009 10:02:14 AM

+1 on the GP-100. A very manageable 357, but that's due to it's weight. It's not much of a hip-carry gun compared to what else is out there. if you plan on carrying it, I'd look at something semi-auto. The 357 Sig cartridge is a .40 S&W size auto cartridge that nearly packs as much energy as the 357 Mag. It's a very viable defensive round, an easy to carry platform, and not stupidly expensive to shoot.

Either will give you a good defensive gun that's range-fun too, but the deciding factor, imo, is where you're going to keep it - on your person or off of it. If you're set on revolvers (which is not a bad thing), and don't want to spend a ton, a used GP100 will be just the ticket. They're cheap, reliable, and built like a freaking tank compared to most other 357 wheelguns.

I'll be at PDHSC around 6 or so tonight. Come on out if you want to try the GP-100. I'll have it with me.

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/21/2009 12:33:05 PM

I'll be at PDHSC around 6pm tonight as well. I'll have a new shooter with me (never shot before).

10/21/2009 1:13:45 PM

^now that's always fun. I might join you if I didn't have class around then

10/21/2009 1:30:46 PM

^^ Aww crap. I'd join ya if I didn't work the fair tonight

10/21/2009 5:29:37 PM

to bad I live in Fayetteville or I would be down, shoulda mentioned that earlier, and I wasn't seriously considering the Judge just thought it was kinda cool. If anyone is in Fayetteville and wanted to go shooting, or would be interested in doing something on a weekend let me know please.

And thanks on the GP-100 I will look into that. I probably need to check out a few stores down here to get an idea of whats around as well

10/21/2009 5:37:53 PM

Quote :

"Nah I figured the worst would be some crazy person that I'd run into if I went hiking alone in the mountains."

why not a pistol rather than a rifle?

10/21/2009 8:01:22 PM

he said he didn't wanna deal with getting a handgun purchase permit i believe

10/21/2009 8:40:07 PM

that's a WHOLE LOT less of an asspain than carting a rifle around on a bicycle.

10/21/2009 8:53:52 PM

his justification was that he would be carrying a tent/bag/shit so it wouldn't be that much more... i say every little thing is that much more

10/21/2009 8:59:13 PM

Cruising the net on CQ, it seems like the market is oversaturated for shooting schools run by former operators. I don't understand why most people, instead of buying 8 guns, buy 1 and run through one of the 3-day courses offered at many of these institutions. It solves a lot of the "well I read so-and-so works better on the internet" arguments.

10/21/2009 11:40:49 PM

no one gun works best in every situation. Better the P32 in my pocket than the P11-357 at home, and ebtter the P11-357 at small of back than the SW99 left at home, and better the open view SW99 or XD9 than the in the safe calico or 870.

10/22/2009 12:03:41 AM

serious question for you guys regarding gun purchasing and ownership.



if you were arrested on felony charges, but never convicted and the charges were dropped will the sherrif's department issue you a handgun permit? Or is it wiser just to wait until the expungment has gone through?

10/22/2009 9:01:27 AM

they should issue one to you.
They can deny one if you've been convicted, otherwise they shouldn't.

Of course...the sheriff can do wtf he wants to.

10/22/2009 9:11:39 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand why most people, instead of buying 8 guns, buy 1 and run through one of the 3-day courses offered at many of these institutions. It solves a lot of the "well I read so-and-so works better on the internet" arguments."

The same reason new divers buy loads of scuba gear but never want to invest in good training.

"Gear Acquisition Syndrome"

10/22/2009 9:24:19 AM

Quote :

"Cruising the net on CQ, it seems like the market is oversaturated for shooting schools run by former operators. I don't understand why most people, instead of buying 8 guns, buy 1 and run through one of the 3-day courses offered at many of these institutions. It solves a lot of the "well I read so-and-so works better on the internet" arguments."

because many of us like to shoot different guns, gun styles, and calibers? why do people listen to and purchase different types of music? movies? etc? we have different firearms for different purposes and the joys of shooting different types.

and as for the defense arguments, a shotgun is great for home defense while a pistol is more suited for self-defense outside the home. I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that... so that's the only real argument about having different guns for different defensive purposes... and not many argue against that. The other defense weapon arguments are more about what type, caliber, etc. and are often just pissing contests.

^no?

10/22/2009 9:33:06 AM

Quote :

"I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that... "

you don't know many people in the gun world then Plenty of people will argue with you about that or anything else you want to argue about

Quote :

"I don't understand why most people, instead of buying 8 guns, buy 1 and run through one of the 3-day courses offered at many of these institutions."

+1 A lot of the stupidity on the internet would stop after a course by someone who really knows their shit. Hint, if all their experience comes from a square range or IPSC, they don't really know their shit.

But then again, most people who own guns prefer the false sense of security owning a gun to challenging themselves to figure out if they can truly fight with a gun.

10/22/2009 10:51:52 AM

Quote :

"Of course...the sheriff can do wtf he wants to."

are you in mecklenburg county? I know it is typically easier to get stuff in counties that don't contain big cities in them (ie: charlotte, raleigh, greensboro, wilmington, etc), but like [whoever said it] said, it legally shouldn't be a problem for them to give you a purchase permit- the fee to get one isn't that much (less than it is for CCP) so it is worth trying. And if you do get one, you might as well get a couple (unless you are sure you want to just get one pistol) because the time of waiting sucks- another great benefit of getting the CCP

10/22/2009 11:33:40 AM

Quote :

"The same reason new divers buy loads of scuba gear but never want to invest in good training. "Gear Acquisition Syndrome" "

Lawlz, great point. To those butthurt: I'm not saying you shouldn't own as many as you want, but there's a difference between firing a gun and shooting one. I too own about 8 guns, and I just fire most of them but there's one that I have full confidence in, from 5 ft to 500m, stoppages, mag changes, retention you name it; and it's not from practicing in my mirror.

If I'm trusting something to protect my life, wouldn't I want to know the weapon inside and out? Humble yourself, seek help. You aren't the baddest guy on the block, so find the guy who is and pay him to teach you.

10/22/2009 4:27:21 PM

Quote :

"You aren't the baddest guy on the block, so find the guy who is and pay him to teach you."

QFT

10/22/2009 4:56:25 PM

I am not bad, or good, but I do practice, with every gun I own. I also do practice with those that I EDC as far as being able tot ell its there without a hand check. Yes, I have, more than once, practiced weapon retention. However, its not a regular thing for me. Unless the guy taking my gun is a WELL trained BG, the time it takes for him to grab my gun, take it form me, and bring it into play is ~ to the time it takes for me to go for a backup gun. I don't train every day full contact for somebody who is a martial arts expert disarming me. I also do not wear my vest every day, and I do not always carry spare mags for every gun.

I assume that I should be prepared for the assumed level of risk. If I feel that I need to be carrying my gun on a lanyard, and or am dealing with folks that I think may take it? fuck that, I will be the the hell out of there. I am not the cavalry, my job is to get home safe. If that means making it to my truck, and upping the ante? so be it. But I figure better a 2-3 item plan that you know, VERY well, and that assumes it will go wrong, and that you may just be fucked, than one of the 'save your life every time take down anyone anytime' type over hyped EX operator school type plans.

I always assume the worst. I carry a gun day in day out, with a backup gun, and when possible, an open displayed gun as well. I do this on safe days in bright sunlight shopping in a good section of town with a well lit parking lot. If I am forced to be in a situation that has more perceived danger? you can bed that there will be a long gun or two in the truck, and that there will be at LEAST the low pro vest on that night.
yours truly, your resident Functional Paranoid Redneck Right Wing Extremist

10/22/2009 5:34:27 PM

Is it possible to import a rifle from Europe? Specifically a cz58 or 858? If it is possible, how would it work?

10/22/2009 7:53:50 PM

CZ model VZ-58s are for sale in the US from CZ-USA.

MSRP is over 1k for each.

Wood-like plastic furniture or Plastic-like plastic furniture

10/22/2009 8:46:08 PM

Quote :

"More than a decade after Congress cut funding for firearms research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), another federal health agency has been spending millions of dollars to study such topics as whether teenagers who carry firearms run a different risk of getting shot compared with suffering other sorts of injuries. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) also has been financing research to investigate whether having many liquor stores in a neighborhood puts people at greater risk of getting shot. Such studies are coming under sharp scrutiny by Republican lawmakers who question whether the money could be better spent on biomedical research at a time of increasing competition for NIH funding. They're also leery of NIH research relating to firearms in general, recalling how 13 years ago the House voted to cut CDC funding when critics complained that the agency was trying to win public support for gun control. "

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/19/nih-funds-study-of-teen-firearms/



. . .

Quote :

"Unless the guy taking my gun is a WELL trained BG"

Quote :

"I always assume the worst."

Clearly you do not. I find it bad practice to go into a fight (even one you don't know you're going to be getting into) underestimating the skills of your opponent. Comma however, I'm not as good as I should be about training. That being said still I agree with the gist of what you posted.

10/22/2009 10:39:39 PM

I do always hope for the best, and do my best to train or expect the worst. However, I can hope, and averages say expect, that in most cases, the person trying to take my gun is not highly trained and practiced in disarmament methods. Will I get lucky? I bet on no, but, I can hope for it, while I practice drawing weak hand and strong hand for backup guns while seated, prone, and standing at my next outdoor range trip.

10/23/2009 12:29:47 AM

anybody know somewhere near raleigh that has some Sako A7's in stock?

10/23/2009 10:53:44 AM

^^ yeah, and that sounded kind of harsh. I was grumpy last night so I apologize

I'm just saying that some people act as if their opponents will always be bumbling idiots or play fair enough for them to win.

10/23/2009 1:22:54 PM

Quote :

"CZ model VZ-58s are for sale in the US from CZ-USA. MSRP is over 1k for each."

Yeah, I know that they are available here from CZ-USA but the 1k price tag is really steep compared what I can get one for from my buddy in Slovakia. This leads me to believe that it isn't possible to import one without a major league hassle.

10/23/2009 2:20:38 PM

how bout just somewhere in raleigh that stocks a good selection of hunting rifles so i can call them and ask if they have the A7? i can't locate one in goldsboro.

10/23/2009 4:38:03 PM

Stop by a local gun store today to start research on the pistol I want to buy. The guys at the store didnt have the GP-100 yall had suggest but really pused the Taurus Tracker .357 as a very viable gun in my price range. Used it was $419 with a case and I think a holster, but not positive on the last part now that i think about it. Any opinions on the gun itself? I liked how it felt in my hands and it had a very smooth trigger all the way through. They will let me shoot it on the range for $10(standard I am guessing?) to see how I like it but I decided to hold off until I do a little more research and shopping around.

10/23/2009 10:28:18 PM

The Tracker isn't bad at all.
Taurus revolvers in general are pretty good guns at pretty good prices. Build quality is just slightly behind Rugers or S&Ws.

I've had a Tracker in 22LR and currently have a Model 85 Ultra Lite in 38 Special.

Pros:
-Factory Taurus triggers are often better than Rugers in trigger weight and DA trigger travel, but the Ruger trigger has the potential to be lighter and smoother (with a spring swap and a little polishing or lots of shooting).
-Grips in the Tracker are more comfortable than Rugers.
-I like the sights more on the Trackers. They seem a little quicker to use and easier to see than the Rugers.
-The Tracker has more capacity with 7 shots instead of 6 in the GP.
-They look cool.

Cons:
-The Taurus probably won't stand up to as many full power loads as a GP-100. This isn't an issue for most people as most people simply don't shoot enough to wear one out.
-It seems Taurus turns out more lemons than other manufacturers. They should fix up a non working gun, but I've heard their customer service is slow.
-They just feel cheaper than Rugers.

Given typical retail prices, I'd definitely go with the GP-100 for the build quality and tank like durability (the GP is usually just a few bucks more). If the Tracker is like new and I didn't plan on shooting more than a couple hundred rounds of full power 357s a year then it would be a fairly good deal at a little over $400.

10/24/2009 2:41:58 AM

Quote :

"Amtrak is raising serious objections to a proposal that would allow passengers to stow unloaded guns in their checked baggage, saying the train operator cannot screen passengers' bags the same way airlines do. . . . "That could jeopardize the operations of Amtrak because ... we don't have the monies to invest in the protocol necessary to guarantee that these weapons won't be used against the traveling public," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/23/amtrak-raises-objections-measure-allowing-guns-trains/


So, Amtrak is fighting against letting passengers carry unloaded locked guns on board because they simply don't have the ability to ensure they're secured. Of course, this also means they don't have the security to ensure that someone doesn't bring a loaded one on board with a malicious intent.

10/24/2009 5:54:20 AM

Taurus guns are pretty good, but customer service is shit. I know this personally - I owned and loved the two that I had, but when a little firing spring assembly broke, it took them almost six months to get me a replacement part. I called several times over the months I had the broken gun. They lost my order the first time, and were actually going to try and charge me for the part after all the runaround I'd gotten.

I ended up getting the part for free (like their "lifetime warranty" said I should), but promptly sold both of them and will never spend another dime on a Taurus again. The customer service people I talked to were all a bunch of completely unhelpful idiots and the horrible CS alone completely negates any minor cost savings, IMO.

Just a warning - horror stories about Taurus CS abound, I am hardly the only one. I paid $500 for my GP-100 and I'm so glad I did. Spring a little extra for a Ruger or a Smith and you won't get dicked around when it comes time to fix something.

10/24/2009 9:00:54 PM

any opinions on perry's gun shop in wendell? sounds like that's the only place around here that might carry the Sako A7.

10/25/2009 12:01:08 AM

I've heard nothing but good things about them. I met one of their staff at a gun event and he was a really nice, knowledgeable guy.

10/25/2009 8:34:19 AM

thanks. i'll give them a call.

[Edited on October 25, 2009 at 11:32 AM. Reason : closed on sunday ]

10/25/2009 11:25:21 AM

Perry's is great. They spent a ton of time with me choosing my first gun.

10/25/2009 9:22:32 PM

Fuck Perry's. They're overpriced and I hate people who tell me what I want.
If I want your opinion I'd ask.
If you want to give me your opinion then you have to ask me if I want to hear it.

PDHSC and Lawmen's get my business.

If you want something and can't find it then call up PDHSC and see how much it'll cost to order one. It's almost always the same as wholesale + $20-25.

[Edited on October 25, 2009 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

10/25/2009 10:30:37 PM

do either of those locations carry hunting firearms? specifically the Sako A7? seems like most of the gun shops around raleigh all just carry defense stuff.

i just want somewhere that i can shoulder the rifle and see if i like the way it feels. i've got enough backbone to listen to someone's opinion and make my own assessment.

[Edited on October 25, 2009 at 10:40 PM. Reason : afds]

10/25/2009 10:35:11 PM

PDHSC would have a slim chance, Lawmen's probably no chance.
But, call up PDHSC and ask how much it'd cost.

Every price they've quoted me has been the cheapest Bud's Guns or Gunbroker price or within the cheapest by a couple of bucks.

My most recent purchase was a CZ 75B.
They don't normally carry CZs, so they ordered me one for $480 + tax, total $517.
The cheapest price on the net is $480 + FFL fee.

Edit:
Ohhhhhh, you want to look at one, not buy one.
Yeah, Perry's is most likely to carry one.
You can also try Mace Sports on the service road northwest of exit 157 on Hwy 40 west near Efland.

[Edited on October 25, 2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason : ]

10/25/2009 10:42:04 PM

well, i'm pretty sure i'll end up getting one in the spring. i just kinda wanted to drool over one for a few minutes

10/25/2009 10:48:54 PM

If I was going to buy something like a Sako A7 (or any other brand-new hunting rifle, for that matter), I'd call Ed's in Southern Pines. I've never seen any other shop be able to consistently match or beat his prices on a wide variety of stuff like that.

10/26/2009 11:40:48 AM

sweet. i'll give them a holler. apparently my family has decided i deserve a graduation present

10/26/2009 11:44:08 AM

will some of yall reply in the violent carjacking/assault thread- I'm curious if I learned it right when taking my classes, or if everyone I had talked to was mistaken about the law

10/27/2009 10:48:32 AM

judges interpret laws

i don't think there are any judges on tww

[Edited on October 27, 2009 at 2:16 PM. Reason : or teaching concealed carry classes]

10/27/2009 2:16:37 PM