The McCain camp is getting desperate, and they are just throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.

That said, this has been a pretty tame election. The mudslinging is nothing compared to 2004 from what I've seen.

10/10/2008 1:45:23 PM

Kainen,
When I get a billboard I'll let you know.

Chary,

Quote :

"Surely though, even if this negativity were quantifiable, the likelihood of them being equally so is roughly 0. "

But I never said they were "equal" in a quantifiable sense--in terms of magnitude of negativity. I only say were equal in a qualafiable sense--that they both have engaged in negative campaigning.

This position would seem to be the most correct to take since I can show that they have both engaged in negative campaigning (it really only takes one example), but I can not show with any ammount of certainty who is more negative (which would require the type of information I mentioned earlier).

Sticking with the weakest argument, in this case, sounds like the best approach. If you want to make a stronger case you can. I just think it would be akin to arguing without someone about a Rothko or Pollack painting. In the end the argument will be based on the assumptions and reactions of the people arguing and not the paintings themselves.

PS* I'm gonna get fired one of these days.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM. Reason : ``]

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ``]

10/10/2008 1:48:27 PM

10/10/2008 2:04:09 PM

Quote :

"This position would seem to be the most correct to take since I can show that they have both engaged in negative campaigning (it really only takes one example), but I can not show with any ammount of certainty who is more negative (which would require the type of information I mentioned earlier)."

If that's actually the postition you've had all along, and this isn't a huge copout, then why did you go on to provide numerous examples of Obama's negative campaign? Like you said, just one example would have sufficed. There would be no point in providing all those other examples because trying to show who is more or equally negative is futile.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 2:39:38 PM

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/map/polling/index.html

CNN was one of the last major networks to put us there, but they now list NC as a battleground state.

10/10/2008 2:43:48 PM

10/10/2008 2:46:28 PM

^^^Aw, forget my post. I didn't phrase my point the way I wanted. This issue is dead anyway.

How bout some more bad news for McCain?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_el_pr/working_class_voters



[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 3:28:47 PM

More fringe nutjobs *ahem* McCain supporters at a rally:



And here is some of the angry ranting against Obama that took place at the rally:




[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 3:46:25 PM

^ it's people like that, and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9
who make me truly scared for Obama's life if he gets elected. Sure, most of those people are just all talk, and ignorant at that. But the sheer amount of ignorance about and hatred towards Obama is overwhelming. Given the amounts of people who seem to have no problem spewing complete nonsense and hatred on camera, I am scared that there will surely be people who believe it enough and are just crazy enough to "do something about it"

10/10/2008 3:56:24 PM

theres always going to be nutjobs who hate the president and may even want to kill him. do you really think obama's life would be in any greater danger than any other president?

10/10/2008 4:01:37 PM

Contrast that with a recent Obama rally:

10/10/2008 4:08:42 PM

i really dont think any obama supporters want to start saying which candidates' rallies have the craziest people

10/10/2008 4:11:49 PM

Quote :

"do you really think obama's life would be in any greater danger than any other president?"

......



.....



yes


I think that the amount of reasons people hate him exceed the reason people hate other Presidents. The hate for Bush, for example, is still mostly policy-based - i.e. he's made and continues to make really, really bad decisions that are bad for American's and bad for the rest of the world.

But the hatred towards Obama seems to run deeper than mere policy issues - racism and religious intolerance (even in the face of the facts) can lead already off-kilter people to do crazy things, and otherwise normal people to act nuts.

Not to mention, McCain and Palin are purposefully inciting fear in people with the "paling around with terrorists" jabs, and not-so-subtly implying Obama is a terrorist himself. That's one good way to get him killed....

10/10/2008 4:21:13 PM

Yah, Obama supporters are ussually much more reasonable. Like photographer Jill Greenberg that was hired by the Atlantic to photograph John McCain for their recent cover. Here's on picture she said she wished they had used.



Obama supporters are so civil.
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/about_that_mccain_photo.php

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM. Reason : ``]

10/10/2008 4:21:32 PM

Quote :

"i really dont think any obama supporters want to start saying which candidates' rallies have the craziest people"

are you willing to admit a difference between "crazy supportive" or even "crazed" in support vs. "crazy dangerous"?

10/10/2008 4:22:53 PM

^ hahaha.

10/10/2008 4:25:12 PM

there is no difference

10/10/2008 4:29:34 PM

Stay on track, we're talking about supporters at rallies, not a freelance photographer.

Plus, I'm also talking about what happens at the rallies. The noticeable angry tone of the McCain's affair vs. the upbeat and hopeful tone of Obama's.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 4:30:15 PM

didnt the RNC have a lot of arrests compared to the DNC?

10/10/2008 4:37:14 PM

Quote :

"there is no difference"

so, there is no difference for one group of people who are "crazy for Obama", and that's why they're voting for him.

And another group of people, who think that Obama is a terrorist, or a Muslim, or don't like him b/c he's black, or think maybe even he's the anti-christ, and that's why they're voting for McCain.

You think that wingnuts from the extremes of both groups are equally likely to become the next Lee Harvey Oswald?


As carzak is pointing out - the "obamaniacs" or Obama crazies or whatever are so excited because they like Obama so much, not because they hate McCain. If you agree with them or not, or think they are stupid for liking Obama so much doesn't matter. These are generally the fanatics of the people who are voting for Obama. You simply do not see a large movement of people who are deathly scared of McCain and that's why they're voting for Obama.

On the other side, though, seems to be a considerable amount of people who are either woefully uninformed (Obama is a Muslim), blatantly bigoted (Obama is black, or a Muslim), or incredibly suggestible (Obama is a terrorist, Obama is the anti-christ) and that seems to be their main motivation for voting for McCain - just to keep the black, muslim, terrorist out of the White House.

The 2nd group of people, those voting against Obama, are much mroe likely to take action if their guy doesn't win.

10/10/2008 4:39:44 PM

i think you're looking from your own left-skewed perspective

Quote :

"You think that wingnuts from the extremes of both groups are equally likely to become the next Lee Harvey Oswald? "

damn straight

10/10/2008 4:49:26 PM

:sigh:

Okay, theyre both equal and we can never make a point about anything because its all subjective.

There.

10/10/2008 4:50:54 PM

Quote :

"Plus, I'm also talking about what happens at the rallies. The noticeable angry tone of the McCain's affair vs. the upbeat and hopeful tone of Obama's. "

Ummmmmm well, the only video you've posted of people actually attending ralleys were being provoked by protestors across the street. Having been to several anti-Bush protests, I can tell you that they hurl just as many insults as the McCain people were hollering.

In your video, only a handful of people were being interviewed (apparently all women) and of those interviews they were only asked about McCain for a few seconds. HECK the last 30 or so seconds of the video are of HIGH SCHOOL KIDS being chaperoned!!! What the fuck do you expect to say??

Carzack, it's clear you really have no interest in discussing anything other than how much better you think you and the people you agree with are than everyone else. I will close on saying that I only hope all Obama supporters are as civil as you when confronted with people they disagree with.

Quote :

"Hey tool... You are useless."

10/10/2008 4:57:00 PM

^^you're the one trying to say (in other words) "the crazy McCain supporters are a lot more dangerous than the crazy Obama supporters"

it IS subjective

10/10/2008 4:57:16 PM

agent How many national leaders did Lenin kill in the community revolution?

OOOPS!! I can't make that comparison because clearly not all liberals are the kin of Vladmir Lenin, but all conservatives ARE the kin of Timothy McVey.

SOORYY!! MY BAD!!!!


PS* Since you bring up Oswald, I should probably point out that he was a Cuba loving Marxist, not a Catholic Hating libertarian. Just letting you know.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ``]

10/10/2008 4:59:07 PM

Quote :

""the crazy McCain supporters are a lot more dangerous than the crazy Obama supporters""

I have not said anything about them being dangerous.


Sorry Socks, you must have meant to say:

Quote :

"theyre both equal and we can never make a point about anything because its all subjective."

10/10/2008 5:00:40 PM

we should just riot out our differences

10/10/2008 5:01:56 PM

carzack, this really is your first election isn't it. admit it.

10/10/2008 5:03:05 PM

Quote :

"I have not said anything about them being dangerous. "

my apologies, but agentlion most certainly did imply 'crazy' McCain supporters are more dangerous

thats who i was originally replying to, i meant to say agentlion definitely implied that crazy McCain supporters were more dangerous than crazy Obama supporters

10/10/2008 5:03:11 PM

10/10/2008 5:27:32 PM

Quote :

"thats who i was originally replying to, i meant to say agentlion definitely implied that crazy McCain supporters were more dangerous than crazy Obama supporters"

yes, i am most certainly saying that.

Mostly because when you find the extremes from both sides, one side is "crazy" for their candidate, and the other side is "crazy" against the other candidate. So, when one side does not get their way, honestly, which one is more likely to take violent action - the side that loves their candidate "too much" or the side that hates the other candidate?

10/10/2008 5:30:04 PM

Hahah let's play a game called "which American political affiliation is more likely to be involved in assinating a politician". This will be FUN and PRODUCTIVE!!!!

John F Kennedy. Victim of Cuba-loving Marxist Shooter.


George Wallace. Victim of Racially Tolerant Shooter in Maryland.


Ronald Reagan. Victom of Shooter in love with Limosine Liberal and Lesbian, Jodie Foster.

10/10/2008 5:44:42 PM

Yeah... Hinckley and Oswald were definitely politically motivated.





You're becoming a satire of the satire you already were.




[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 5:57 PM. Reason : lolol, Guiteau is like, totally French. AKA LIBERAL. AKA DEMOCRAT.]

10/10/2008 5:55:33 PM

did you hear that guys? Boone knows all of Oswald's motivations

he must've asked him before Jack Ruby regulated

10/10/2008 5:56:27 PM

Quote :

"Boone knows all of Oswald's motivations"

I don't. No one does.

Except for Socks dot dot, that is.

10/10/2008 5:58:50 PM

Boone - 1
TT - 0

Damn son

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 6:02:16 PM

Boone

Hey, Oswald is Agent's example. He seems to think that McCain supporters are more likekly to kill Obama than Obama supporters would be to kill McCain. Or some silly shit like that. I'm just mocking his argument. If you don't like it, then you caaaaannnnn gggetttt it.

Quote :

"You think that wingnuts from the extremes of both groups are equally likely to become the next Lee Harvey Oswald? "

- Agent

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 6:17 PM. Reason : ``]

10/10/2008 6:14:52 PM

Quote :

"You think that wingnuts from the extremes of both groups are equally likely to become the next Lee Harvey Oswald?"

Which of the following best describes what Agent meant by the above statement?

A) ...are equally likely to become the next [presidential assassin]
B) ...are equally likely to become the next [Democratic Party-affiliated presidential assassin]
C) The Judicial Branch
D) Judicial Review

10/10/2008 6:24:03 PM

Quote :

"I don't. No one does."

yet somehow you know that it wasn't politically motivated

Str8foolish also apparently knows

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 6:28 PM. Reason : yet the Warren Commission doesn't even know...hmm]

10/10/2008 6:25:23 PM

So anything we can't disprove is fair game?

10/10/2008 6:29:06 PM

you claimed oswald's motivations for killing jfk werent political

now you say "nobody knows"

10/10/2008 6:38:41 PM

I rolled my e-eyes at the thought that they were

Quote :

"definitely politically motivated."

Would you like to argue that they definitely were?


I mean, if you continue this, you're objectively a troll or an idiot.

10/10/2008 6:42:05 PM

jesus, you *fucking* retards.
See Boone's question above. The answer is A

I'm glad someone got my point. I said Lee Harvey Oswald because..... he's the last guy to kill a fucking president! I don't care what his motivations were or which president he killed and from which party he was from. That wasn't the goddamned point, you thick-skilled numbnuts!

10/10/2008 6:42:59 PM

no agentlion, your point was that "crazy McCain supporters are more dangerous than crazy Obama supporters"

which is just a fucking stupid partisan point to try and make

10/10/2008 6:45:05 PM

Tree:

Quote :

""thats who i was originally replying to, i meant to say agentlion definitely implied that crazy McCain supporters were more dangerous than crazy Obama supporters""

Agent

Quote :

"yes, i am most certainly saying that. "

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 6:54 PM. Reason : Yes, someone is retarded around here.]

10/10/2008 6:49:58 PM

Let's clarify things:

Quote :

"i meant to say agentlion definitely implied that crazy McCain supporters Obama haters were more dangerous than crazy Obama supporters"

Obama's won the moderates. McCain has the kooks who just hate Obama. Of course they'd be more likely to turn to violence.

That's not to say it's at all likely-- but undeniably -more- likely.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 7:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/10/2008 7:06:56 PM

the quote was correct before you changed it...its my quote, i'd know

10/10/2008 7:17:31 PM

It's inherently wrong-- there's no such thing as a McCain supporter. He alienation rational people months ago.

There are Palin supporters, Obama supporters, and Obama haters.

10/10/2008 7:19:40 PM

Quote :

"there's no such thing as a McCain supporter"

:carlface:

10/10/2008 7:28:08 PM

Quote :

"Palin rally in Virginia moved to NASCAR track"

NASCAR wooo

Palin #1 !!!!!

I am glad the race for president has become a high school popularity contest.

Forgot my qualifications and experience people. I LOVE Nascar, shoot my gunz, watch hockey, and had a husband who lost 20K in the stock market.

<3

Sarah Palin

Quote :

"FOX News Poll: Obama Maintains Lead Over McCain Barack Obama maintains a 7-point lead over John McCain, in the latest FOX News poll. "

Fox News must have been hijacked by the liberal media conspiracy that is reporting false numbers. Right hooksaw and aaronburro!!

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 7:41 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 7:41 PM. Reason : l]

10/10/2008 7:35:23 PM