I see the republicans position weakened substantially with this victory for obama.

gotta hand it to him. he and pelosi worked a murracul.

3/21/2010 11:17:27 PM

yays 199 to 2-something, the whatever didn't pass.

aaaaand...

Why are they doing a 15 minute vote YET AGAIN? I don't understand this.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:20 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:19:18 PM

i think they get 3 chances to vote for a do-over or something

3/21/2010 11:22:24 PM

Ok, so

1. They voted on the bill
2. They voted on "motion to recommit" which was witchcraft from repubs
3. They're voting on the bill again.

For reference, see our reps:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml

[failure to parse list ]

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:28 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:25:05 PM

Quote :

"^^Can we get a timeline?"

For what? I can tell you how this bill is going to fuck things up, but I can't tell you exactly when.

Quote :

"AHHH HAHAHAHA That's not how programs like this work, dude. They are forever, no matter how fucked up they are."

Indeed. Once a government program is in, that's pretty much it. Nothing ever gets repealed. That's kind of our problem. The assumption is that every bill ever passed and still on the books is a good law, but how could that possibly be?

Quote :

"We Conservatives have to move on. There are more battles to fight this year.. immigration, cap n tax. etc. And through-out we must keep working on getting rid of these democrats in November."

No positive change is going to come from these legislative battles. We need radical, sweeping change in Washington, and that's probably not going to happen until it's too late. We need a massive cut in government spending. I just don't think there's any political will to do it.

3/21/2010 11:25:29 PM

^^ David Price and Brad Miller on different sides... that doesn't sound right.

3/21/2010 11:27:16 PM

lol, you don't think? we just bit off 5 trillion dollars more in gov. spending...


i don't see reductions coming any time soon.

3/21/2010 11:27:50 PM

Quote :

"The assumption is that every bill ever passed and still on the books is a good law, but how could that possibly be?"

Who assumes that?

The issue is that when the government teat is extended, people become dependent upon it.

3/21/2010 11:28:41 PM

to be fair, when someone loses their job or has a pre-existing condition, or gets their insurance rescinded, they're dependent on the government with or without this bill. its not like they're automagically "independent" in those situations without this bill.

at least now the government will actually help them.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:30 PM. Reason : s]

3/21/2010 11:30:18 PM

Quote :

"1. They voted on the bill 2. They voted on "motion to recommit" which was witchcraft from repubs 3. They're voting on the bill again."

the third is reconciliation bill. not the first bill again.

3/21/2010 11:30:20 PM

And reconciliation passes now.

3/21/2010 11:30:24 PM

Quote :

"We need radical, sweeping change in Washington, and that's probably not going to happen until it's too late. We need a massive cut in government spending. I just don't think there's any political will to do it."

because nobody is willing to do it. and voters don't hold politicians accountable. mainly because they don't know enough about what's going on to have an opinion.

yes the dems are going to lose big in the fall. the republicans are going to use it as an excuse to bring back up abortion bans, gay marriage, etc etc etc and then there will be gridlock and nothing with get done about the increasing deficit.

it's the same old fucking bullshit time and time again in washington. im pretty much ready to wave my white flag.

3/21/2010 11:30:51 PM

^ dude things have been A LOT worse... we had a civil war ffs.

3/21/2010 11:32:12 PM

All republicans voted against the bill. A small number of dems voted against the bill.

Dems from NC who voted against the bill:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McIntyre - Wilmington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Kissell - Charlotte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Shuler - Asheville

The rest follow party lines, so these are the only notable guys. We should check who voted for / against the current vote too.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:37 PM. Reason : cities]

3/21/2010 11:35:20 PM

So how is this even the government teat if basically all it does is require people to buy private insurance? The subsidies don't even affect a lot of people this thing was originally meant to. It's a bad bill but the problem isn't that it's too far left, it's not much more than a big gift-wrapped package for insurance companies

3/21/2010 11:35:54 PM

because this bill will cause prices to go so fucking high (see Massachusetts) that in 5-10 years we will have an outcry for another government solution to yet another government created problem. And the solution? single payer.

that's this has ever really been about. Obama, himself, even said as much. It's approaching single-payer via baby steps.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:38:14 PM

Quote :

"it's not much more than a big gift-wrapped package for [private] insurance companies"

^ i don’t think it’ll play out like that. The only reason public option is bad for us is because our gov. is practically broke. If we could start paying down the debt like Clinton had planned, I think a public option would work well. If you literally mean a canada-style single-payer system, the US will never have that.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:39:15 PM

Thank god it passed.

Now, once it is in place and lawmakers can see it play out in practice, they can further amend it if necessary.

3/21/2010 11:39:38 PM

most conservatives are not commenting on this specific bill, but are taking the long view 10 years from now when the insurance industry is bankrupted by this bill and the government "helps out" with single payer.

3/21/2010 11:39:39 PM

which is what ultimately matters. first you had medicare, then medicaid, then SCHIP. Now Obama-care. I don't know how many stops there are on this fucked up train, but the last stop is single-payer and single-provider. It's always been the intent

3/21/2010 11:41:12 PM

Thats why lawmakers have 10 years to see it coming and do something about it, IF in fact that does happen.

3/21/2010 11:41:15 PM

looks like burro and solinari got their talking-points emails in.

Quote :

" I don't know how many stops there are on this fucked up train, but the last stop is single-payer and single-provider. It's always been the intent"

Wow, you are on the roll with the soothsaying recently.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:41:44 PM

Looks like Pelosi allowed Schuler, Kissell and McIntyre to vote against. Hopefully their districts will see through the ploy.

So the insurance companies become utilities. Dull, unimaginitive, post office, DMV ... Insurance.
Over-priced, less service . Wow what a victory for Americans.

3/21/2010 11:41:52 PM

Now they're voting on Iwo-Jima or something like that.

3/21/2010 11:43:05 PM

^^^^ they've had how fucking long to see the headlights of SS? what the fuck makes you think they'll respond to this train-wreck?

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:43 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:43:10 PM

^^^ because the insurance industry is known for its excitement and imagination…?

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:43 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:43:16 PM

Of all the potential problems and issues with the bill, the GOP major concern and last ditch effort to stop the bill is regarding the language on abortion. I want to barf. "Abortion" is the last thing I am worried about. The last thing we need is more deadbeat parents and worthless kids.

3/21/2010 11:44:01 PM

Quote :

"Of all the potential problems and issues with the bill, the GOP major concern and last ditch effort to stop the bill is regarding the language on abortion. I want to barf. "Abortion" is the last thing I am worried about. The last thing we need is more deadbeat parents and worthless kids. "

It’s just further proof that their goal is obstructionism and making O’bama look bad, than sticking by their supposed “conservative” principles.

3/21/2010 11:45:07 PM

no, the last thing we need is a new trillion-dollar entitlement

did you seriously just put an apostrophe in Obama?

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:45 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2010 11:45:12 PM

someone just resigned?

wtf? what a pussy.

[Edited on March 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2010 11:46:36 PM

^ really, wtf is up?

3/21/2010 11:49:38 PM

who??

3/21/2010 11:49:55 PM

I had the video up and it sounded like someone was saying his sweet goodbyes.

Didn't bother to tell the public wtf he was doing, but so i dunno...

3/21/2010 11:51:06 PM

you guys do realize that the house has moved on past healthcare right?

3/21/2010 11:51:49 PM

Rep. from GA, Nathan Deal submitted his resignation, effective immediately.

it appears he's going to run for governor of GA in november...

wtf? he wasn't even there. someone else read his resignation letter for him. weird

3/21/2010 11:52:58 PM

Obama: "big purchasing pool"

What big purchasing pool? You guys dropped the public option - the only good thing about the idea.

3/21/2010 11:53:06 PM

^^ its like this is the first time you've ever watched the house of representatives.

3/21/2010 11:53:42 PM

LIKE, TOTALLY

3/21/2010 11:54:29 PM

cool! Cant wait to watch as healthcare costs continue to rise and retards that promoted this bill go "durraaahurrr???" when they finally figure out insurance != healthcare.

3/21/2010 11:55:24 PM

yo homles to Belair!

3/21/2010 11:57:18 PM

Quote :

"So how is this even the government teat if basically all it does is require people to buy private insurance?"

that isn't all, though

Quote :

"the problem isn't that it's too far left, it's not much more than a big gift-wrapped package for insurance companies"

I'd say it's a mixed bag for insurance companies.

I'll agree that the REALLY, REALLY bad shit on the leftist wish-list isn't in this one, though.

Quote :

"Thats why lawmakers have 10 years to see it coming and do something about it"

hahahahaha

Quote :

"Of all the potential problems and issues with the bill, the GOP major concern and last ditch effort to stop the bill is regarding the language on abortion."

Well, (a) it isn't just the GOP, and (b) it was a useful thing to use for leverage. I mean, it worked for a while.

...although I'll grant that some of it is an ideological thing, not just political gamesmanship.

Quote :

"It’s just further proof that their goal is obstructionism and making O’bama look bad, than sticking by their supposed “conservative” principles."

(although I agree that "conservative principles" aren't really what the GOP is about)




[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 12:06 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2010 12:03:52 AM

this could prove to be a Pyrrhic victory for the Dems. Expect to see quite a bit of "buyers remorse" from fiscally conservative independents in November.

Although I voiced some support for this bill, I'm concerned with the high costs to businesses and the effects it will have on US competitiveness in the global economy. US businesses are already at a disadvantage with high taxes and labor costs, further burdening them with even higher healthcare costs will only increase our trade deficit.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 12:10 AM. Reason : 2]

3/22/2010 12:07:27 AM

Quote :

"this could prove to be a Pyrrhic victory for the Dems. Expect to see quite a bit of "buyers remorse" from fiscally conservative independents in November. "

How? Health reform, including a public option, was a major planck of his platform.

Obama definitely needs to focus on the debt and deficit I think though, because that was also a major planck.

3/22/2010 12:09:26 AM

Well, there goes the last of the legislative excitement until next year. Democrats will spend the rest of the year focusing on the can't miss, popular-across-the-board, instant gratification type issues in a run up to the November elections.

3/22/2010 12:11:54 AM

How? HOW?

Just look at all the opposition to this bill. It's not just tea partiers. A lot of people HATE it. And they will be extremely energized in the fall. Just watch.

Hell, even a lot of Dems don't like this bill. It's a partial success for Obama, but in the process the incumbent Dems in congress became the most despised people in the country, with the Repubs a close 2nd.

3/22/2010 12:14:03 AM

Quote :

"Just look at all the opposition to this bill. It's not just tea partiers. A lot of people HATE it."

But people hate it BECAUSE of the tea-partiers. This is what happens when you scream about Communism, hitler, killing grandma, and death panels for a year straight. when the bill passes, and people realize that the world hasn’t ended, and it’s not as bad as the tea-partiers have been screaming about, it’s going to deflate the tea-partier’s sails, not bellow them out.

My prediction is that this helps Obama and the dems, not hurt them.

The health bill shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone that voted for Obama.

Quote :

"Hell, even a lot of Dems don't like this bill. It's a partial success for Obama, but in the process the incumbent Dems in congress became the most despised people in the country, with the Repubs a close 2nd. "

They are already pretty despised due to the aforementioned campaigning. Doing nothing would have hurt them more, caving to the tea-baggers would have hurt them. Passing the bill providing even a feint of progress and leadership was the best thing to do for the dems.



[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 12:18 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2010 12:16:26 AM

Quote :

"Obama definitely needs to focus on the debt and deficit"

Not gonna happen.
Lord Obama isn't interested in saving money. There's nothing majestic about that. His goal is to do things...Big Things. And that's going to cost a lot of money..that we still don't have.

3/22/2010 12:17:23 AM

how is that any worse than prosecuting two unfunded wars.

3/22/2010 12:17:56 AM

^
It's not. Remember your discussing with a libertarian. We aren't in favor of invading other countries that haven't attacked us.

3/22/2010 12:21:50 AM

Good luck with that prediction. We may not see any negative effects of this bill right away, but we won't see any positive effects either. Shit doesn't kick in for a while. Meanwhile, the opposition will be beating the drums of war, playing up all the real and perceived negatives of this bill with crazy deficit projections, scare tactics, etc. You know the drill. Fear is a much stronger motivator than promises.

Use your head, not your heart. You know how this will play out in the polls. Or at least you should.

3/22/2010 12:23:08 AM