LunaK ^^ i was doing something modified before the allergy really flared up (became apparent) but this definitely forces me to watch everything i eat, which is a good and a bad thing. some days i'm fine because i'm in a routine and i rather not have to deal with the swelling, weight gain, insomnia, being lethargic but then there are definitely times i'm jealous that others can just eat what they want freely without repercussions.

the biggest thing i have to watch is alcohol - especially wine and beer. i just stay away from it. even red wine makes me really sick.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason : adding name]

7/5/2011 12:06:08 PM

So let me get this straight, you guys just want this thread to be a pity party and/or support center for people with the same problems you have?

Rather than getting advice from people who have already successfully achieved your goals?

I post my work outs here for two reasons:

1. As self motivation, because I feel pride in posting about doing some hard work and having achieved a "beach body" this summer. This year is the first time ever I have had a ripped 6pack.

2. As an example work out of what people can do if they want to build a nice physique using proper lifts and programming.

People shouldn't get all butt-hurt when their program or work out gets criticized. Use the information to your advantage rather than a shot to their ego.

I also feel, given the MASSIVE amount of misleading and contradictory information out there, that gaining insight from people who have been there and done that is pretty valuable. Take it or leave it.

7/5/2011 12:25:06 PM

Quote :

"So let me get this straight, you guys just want this thread to be a pity party and/or support center for people with the same problems you have?"

i don't see that being said anywhere in here. what i have a problem with is people coming in here and shitting all over other people's posts because it's not good enough or not exactly what another person who got in shape did.

everybody is at different levels of activity and ability. coming in here and ripping someone else's level is completely counterproductive.

i see no problem with posting workouts in here or what has worked for you. i DO have a problem when people are criticized in an unproductive manor.

7/5/2011 12:28:59 PM

MattJMM2 i agree to an extent because i think your posts have been helpful for those that are looking to achieve the same goals as you or do the same kind of work outs as you do (mostly heavy lifting) but when i flip through the thread and find pages upon pages upon pages of the male tww population (which i know i get you dont have to remind me i've been here far too long to know that this is a mostly male populated forum but in this thread there were a fair number of females posting regularly too) posting about how much weight they lifted and all the awesome squats they did, i get discouraged and not post what i'm doing because it feels insignificant to the banter going on about how hard you dropped that weight when you were done being awesomesauce lifting it. just sayin'

you can keep on keepin on with whatever you think is being profound enough that others want to read it. i think ThePeter tried to split the thread within good reason so that those who wanted to primarily focus on weight lifting and talking about that could do so without all us fatties getting in the way of your posts

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 12:31 PM. Reason : wrong user name again]

7/5/2011 12:30:30 PM

Quote :

"Bodybuilding is about muscle hypertrophy and essentially having the best beach body. That other thread is kind of redundant since having a beach body is the point of this thread."

building muscle =/= beachbody


for some people just losing weight = beachbody



i think this is where the line is drawn between the 2 threads.

7/5/2011 12:32:39 PM

this thread long ago left the "collaboration" and went into "showing off"

success in alienating new users from wanting to join

7/5/2011 12:35:07 PM

girls benefit from doing squats too. and doing the exact same lifts that both matt and maximus have been talking about.

7/5/2011 12:36:09 PM

i <3 squats and lunges and deadlifts and all that shit.

please to see my above post to what i think people were having a problem with (or at least i was)

PS

i lost all my weight last summer with cross training. ie, lifting, running, swimming, biking etc. so i am in no way knocking lifting.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

7/5/2011 12:37:55 PM

^^ lolz

i'm not knocking lifting either. i have really spent a lot of time focusing on lifting recently as a way to build more muscle. it's just hard for me to want to post what i'm doing when i see the same 3 people posting about how jacked they got in the gym this morning.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 12:41 PM. Reason : ahhh]

7/5/2011 12:40:24 PM

It seems most of the controversy is because people really should just use message_topic.aspx?topic=397882 and be nice to each other.

7/5/2011 12:43:07 PM

Quote :

" building muscle =/= beachbody for some people just losing weight = beachbody i think this is where the line is drawn between the 2 threads."

Joie, I see your line of thinking. However, what most people don't realize, especially women, is that doing work outs based around building strength/muscle is MUCH more productive to obtaining a lean physique.

When you lose weight, the mass lost comes from all tissues. If you follow a program designed to build strength/muscle, while in a calorie deficit; a larger percentage of mass lost comes from fat rather than lean tissue.

This is where a lot of people screw up in their quest for leanness... Would you rather lose 20lbs total (with half of it being fat) or 10lbs of pure fat and retaining muscle? The numbers are arbitrary, but if you realize that retaining lean muscle does amazing things for the physique, you will follow my train of thought.

7/5/2011 12:44:23 PM

Quote :

"However, what most people don't realize, especially women, is that doing work outs based around building strength/muscle is MUCH more productive to obtaining a lean physique."

i feel like many, if not most women, in this thread realize that weightlifting has substantial benefits

7/5/2011 1:01:33 PM

and many, if not most women in this thread are already doing weight lifting. only difference is that i'm not posting about every single thing i do.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:13 PM. Reason : i hate commas.]

7/5/2011 1:13:32 PM

MattJMM2 and others: let it be known i never once said that lifting weights for women is not good. (seriously go back and read it....sorry but it really irks me when people put words in my mouth)


im just saying that i believe this thread was more directed to the people who just want to look a little better.
which a lot of people just want to drop a few inches.

not put on 20 lbs of muscle and drop to 2% body fat.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:20 PM. Reason : imma be nicer]

7/5/2011 1:17:41 PM

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:21 PM. Reason : WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG]

7/5/2011 1:21:28 PM

I, too, am on the side of the "I no longer enjoy this thread" fence.


I stopped posting because honestly, it became a giant "getting ripped" circle jerk.

A few weeks ago I asked a question about diet (a legit question) and I'm pretty sure no one responded because it got buried in the "HAI LOOK HOW MUCH I CAN LIFT" "NOOO LOOK HOW MUCH *I* CAN LIFT!!! GUN SHOWWW"



I loved this thread when it was all about encouragement and positivity. Now it's just a show off contest, like grimx mentioned. I don't even want to post update pictures because I know some of the posters in here would rip it apart instead of just saying, "hey good job on your progress " or maybe even offering new advice as to how to get motivation back without sounding like a condescending a-hole.


Just sayin.




And I completely agree with Joie - I would be willing to bet most of the women on here lift more than you even realize. Hell, I would be willing to bet we lift more weight and know quite a bit about lifting than what you would even expect.


I'm going to aid in getting this back on track.


I'm kind of getting tired of the lifting exercises I know - I want some more that are similar to burpees + shoulder press. Thoughts?

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

7/5/2011 1:22:54 PM

but i think the problem here is we have 2 calibers of people



those who are die hard fanatics
eg

Quote :

"For, example I absolutely love my time in the gym. It is like church to me. When I wake up, I am hyped up because I know I either get to train that day, or I am only a day away from training again. "

and then there are those who are just here to improve ourselves, not train to the max.


it seems like the former has taken over.
theres nothing wrong with that but like sam said....ive noticed some posts get completely ignored.
its happened quite a few times!


[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:26 PM. Reason : dfgdf]

7/5/2011 1:24:22 PM

^ Preach it


Some of us would like to keep a healthy balance ITT because some of us don't want to look ripped, or get down to a low body fat.

7/5/2011 1:25:25 PM

Quote :

"I'm kind of getting tired of the lifting exercises I know - I want some more that are similar to burpees + shoulder press. Thoughts?"

duuuuuuuuuuuude, ive been on a push up kick for the past few weeks.

i do about 50 -100 randomly throughout the day in sets of 10 or 20.


its been making me sore!

7/5/2011 1:29:03 PM

Quote :

"I'm kind of getting tired of the lifting exercises I know - I want some more that are similar to burpees + shoulder press. Thoughts?"

Sam, check out http://www.bodyrock.tv. the trainers on there post a lot of different kinds of burpees and burpee "challenges" you can do with videos and pictures of how to do all the different moves.

i'm with Sam and Joie....i want to get this thread back on track. i think in the beginning this thread was more about a group of people who wanted to get together, improve themselves, ask questions, and talk about frustrations in a positive environment. but then suddenly die hard fanatics started jumping in and took over the thread. everyone can get along, we just need balance.

7/5/2011 1:30:39 PM

I like military push ups and the "heart to heart" ones... I'm thinking I might need to get into some more calisthenics to change things up a bit

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ^ sweet, thanks!]

7/5/2011 1:30:58 PM

You might like dive bombers, Sam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttk8RdiIHzA

On Saturday I did some one-armed pushups that were modified for people who can't actually do one-armed pushups. Put your legs wide and get into pushup position on one arm, then you kinda drop your knee, push your chest to the ground, push back up and then lift your knee again. Sort of hard to describe, and was a bit harder than it sounds to do sets of them. My obliques are still sore from those.

7/5/2011 1:33:47 PM

Similar to burpees? Try power cleans with an over head press. Also called clean and press. Or you could do the clean and jerk. A jerk is less of a press and more like holding the bar at shoulder level and jumping under it while extending your arms.

Or you could do jump squats. Squat ass to ground and explosively jump as high as you can.

I am not getting involved with the other thread, nor will I post my workouts here, anymore. But you people should at least listen the advice of more advanced litters, sift through it and find what works for you.

For every Maximus there are ten other guys who are stronger and know more shit. If you are not comfortable with stronger "fanatics" around, how do you even make it to the gym? I am 100 times more intimidating, condescending, and douche-ey in person...especially if you curl in the squat rack.

7/5/2011 1:34:43 PM

i dislike dive bombers, but only cause i can't do a lot of them

7/5/2011 1:34:55 PM

The truth is, the majority of people that say they are experts, aren't. The ones that really are experts, won't say they are. Just do what makes sense for you, and fuck everyone else.

Since I don't really enjoy being a hypocrit, I'll keep this short.

After doing a lot of P90x, I found that as long as the last three reps burn, you are doing well.
If you are looking for lean results, drop the weight and increase the reps. 12-15 is good
If you are looking for mass results, increase the weight and decrease the reps. 8-10 is good
Alternative cardio and strength days, and make sure you are doing different exercises week after week.

Besides that eating right and often, drinking plenty of water, and not eating after 7pm will help you stay healthy and fit. You don't have to be ripped or have low BFP to stay healthy, but following these basics will help a lot, even if you only work out once or twice a week. Besides, 90% of any healthy lifestyle is what you eat, not what you lift or how much you run.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 1:41 PM. Reason : -]

7/5/2011 1:39:32 PM

^^ Perhaps "you might love to hate dive bombers" would have been more accurate. They do suck, but in the good way.

7/5/2011 1:41:41 PM

thats true, i love to hate them

7/5/2011 1:42:03 PM

maximus, I appreciate the suggestions - but you're kind of the perfect example.

Quote :

"Or you could do jump squats. Squat ass to ground and explosively jump as high as you can."

It's stuff like this over and over again that makes this thread not as fun as it used to be. I know what jump squats are, and even if I didn't, no offense but I think it would easy to figure out what the hell they were. Same with the clean and jerk... (Plus, no offense [again] but those are pretty common exercises and I'm looking for ones people wouldn't typically think of, because I'm getting bored with my routine.)

IMO, one major problem is to each other you guys use ridiculous lingo but if someone who isn't within your strongman circle asks a question, you dumb it down way more than needed and end up sounding condescending.

7/5/2011 1:46:02 PM

although it's not a new movement per se sam - but have you tried doing tabata workouts?

doing em with squats, burpees, overhead press, pushups makes the movement that much more difficult

7/5/2011 1:49:15 PM

i took it entirely different.

90% of the people you see squatting, dont go deep enough.

i took it as him saying that to truly get the full benefit of the exercise, be sure to go deep.

i don't see why you wouldn't want more information than just a list of exercises, which is apparently what you wanted as a response.

personally, i'd rather read what people (who have experience with it) say about the exercise than just going and googling execution steps.

maximus has been very helpful in this thread. just some of yall are taking it entirely wrong.

i mean, we could all sit around and pull our puds and complain about diets, and turn into an online weight watchers.

7/5/2011 1:54:17 PM

Ok since we've scared the meatheads off, its progress report time.




Decent improvement in about six weeks, but still a ways to go

Mid May





July 1



[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM. Reason : too big]

7/5/2011 1:59:45 PM

definite progress slave... nice job

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM. Reason : ,]

7/5/2011 2:00:14 PM

Quote :

"Ok since we've scared the meatheads off, its progress report time. "

hahahahahahahhahaha you are my favorite user.

7/5/2011 2:07:27 PM

Nice slave!

I am going to probably do those dive bomber push-ups for sure. So awesome! I love exercises that use your own body weight almost fully.

7/5/2011 2:09:35 PM

when i first ventured into P90x i couldn't do one single dive bomber push up. now i can tackle about 10 or so before my arms turn to complete jelly. they're actually a lot of fun once you get the swing of them (and your arms get strong enough to support you after doing one )

7/5/2011 2:11:15 PM

lawl.. <3 Slave Famous

Quote :

"i took it entirely different. 90% of the people you see squatting, dont go deep enough. i took it as him saying that to truly get the full benefit of the exercise, be sure to go deep. i don't see why you wouldn't want more information than just a list of exercises, which is apparently what you wanted as a response. personally, i'd rather read what people (who have experience with it) say about the exercise than just going and googling execution steps. maximus has been very helpful in this thread. just some of yall are taking it entirely wrong. i mean, we could all sit around and pull our puds and complain about diets, and turn into an online weight watchers."

I don't want a list of exercises, and I'm ok with people going into depth about some of them. But describing flippin jump squats is a bit excessive. I mean really, the steps are in the name.


I don't think any of us are looking for a "let's hug it out" type of attitude in this thread when someone is feeling blue or gained weight or is having trouble... but I damn sure don't want to come in here and talk about how I just haven't been motivated lately and receive a ton of responses like "SUCK IT UP" or "LIFT LIKE ME" instead of getting helpful advice. It's off-putting and makes me not want to listen to the people even more because they are so abrasive with their "advice." And I don't mean in a brutally honesty way - it's more of a "I know it all and you don't!!!! Now watch me get R1PPED" attitude.



---


I think I'm going to look for a kick boxing class around here. I would actually really love to get into some form of karate or boxing but I don't know if I have enough time to dedicate to it. :\

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ^ yeah dive bombers are tough.. maybe I should just do some P90X stuff again]

7/5/2011 2:14:27 PM

i do dive bombers in body rock too.

7/5/2011 2:28:22 PM

You want it both ways. You want help, but only on your terms. You want someone to pat you on th back when you fail, but then complain that you never get results. You are so jealous of the "meatheads" (I prefer metal head) that you cry and don't want them in your thread.

Example...I have just been berated for giving advice about squats because I dumbed it down. Well, answer me this...

Were they quad, hamstring, or glute isolating squats? Were they wide, neutral, narrow, power stance, split, one legged or staggered stance? Natural, zercher, Jefferson, Bulgarian split, overhead, olympic, bodybuilding or power style? Was the bar on your upper traps or below your delts? Parallel, A2G, box squat, or power depth?

Yeah. See. You complain about advice when you don't know, well, squat.
Which is it? You don't want to be dumbed down or you ask for advice and moan when you get it?

7/5/2011 2:30:14 PM

maximus last time i saw you, you were the one crying. lest we not forget that night

7/5/2011 2:34:18 PM

Quote :

"then complain that you never get results. "

i don't see where sam or the other ladies were complaining about not getting results - not being motivated? maybe.

and if you go back to the beach body thread from last year, i distinctly remember both myself and sam getting kick ass results thank you very much.

7/5/2011 2:36:11 PM

Quote :

"You want it both ways. You want help, but only on your terms. You want someone to pat you on th back when you fail, but then complain that you never get results. You are so jealous of the "meatheads" (I prefer metal head) that you cry and don't want them in your thread. Example...I have just been berated for giving advice about squats because I dumbed it down. Well, answer me this... Were they quad, hamstring, or glute isolating squats? Were they wide, neutral, narrow, power stance, split, one legged or staggered stance? Natural, zercher, Jefferson, Bulgarian split, overhead, olympic, bodybuilding or power style? Was the bar on your upper traps or below your delts? Parallel, A2G, box squat, or power depth? Yeah. See. You complain about advice when you don't know, well, squat. Which is it? You don't want to be dumbed down or you ask for advice and moan when you get it?"

1. I have gotten results. So don't even start that shit.

2. I actually understood most of your post, so I don't understand the whole "you don't know squat" bit. I guess you're trying to make yourself look all knowing again? FTR, I have been weight lifting for well over 5 years now and understand quite a bit of the terminology. I might not know the entire glossary of weight lifting terms but I would appreciate it if you didn't automatically assume people are completely blind to this whole lifting thing.

3. I would like advice where you don't act like a douche bag. I guess that's not possible.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ^ we definitely did, as well as many other users.. and we didn't act like asshats]

7/5/2011 2:39:59 PM

i've had HUGE results in the last year since the threads (last years and this years) have come around. it's been great to post results, frustrations, successes, see other people's successes, offer advice, etc.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 2:41 PM. Reason : edit]

7/5/2011 2:41:04 PM

Quote :

"Were they quad, hamstring, or glute isolating squats? Were they wide, neutral, narrow, power stance, split, one legged or staggered stance? Natural, zercher, Jefferson, Bulgarian split, overhead, olympic, bodybuilding or power style? Was the bar on your upper traps or below your delts? Parallel, A2G, box squat, or power depth?"

you couldn't have described the problem better.


do you really think that someone who is say 30% bodyfat is gonna have that much better results depending on the stance?

i mean, i could be wrong here-feel free to correct me.

7/5/2011 2:51:20 PM

^ along those lines, i feel like telling someone definitively that their ass needs to be on the ground in a squat to be doing it correctly could be a recipe for disaster without proper form. knees could get all kinds of fucked up

7/5/2011 2:57:00 PM

Wheres a good place to get bodyfat measured? Does planet fitness do it?

7/5/2011 2:57:21 PM

Those distinctions make more of a difference to someone that has plateaued or is going for nice definition. If marines do simple Calisthenics for the majority of their exercises and seem to get ripped, all those different stances do not matter that much in the grand scheme of things, except to those that feel they do.

7/5/2011 2:58:39 PM

^^
Most gyms have a scale that measures it, but I don't trust them it all. They seem to wildly fluctuate.

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 3:00 PM. Reason : !]

7/5/2011 2:59:53 PM

^ thats what i was figuring...is there a technique that's better than any other? i'll pay $connecticut for something accurate if needed..

7/5/2011 3:01:16 PM

was there somewhere around state that does the bodpod? those things (from my friends who are athletic trainers) say they're the most accurate.

7/5/2011 3:02:10 PM

Meredith college offers underwater weighing for $30 (supposedly this is the most accurate method)

http://www.meredith.edu/nhhp/ess/lab/testing_specifics.htm

You can also get a caliper test done for $10

7/5/2011 3:35:43 PM