Quote :

"Hahahahaha yeah, totally meaningless. Meanwhile, "THE FIRST THING HITLER DID WAS TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM THE JEWS" is totally relevant to the United States in 2013."

You clearly have no appreciation for history. It will always be relevant. If you did, you'd understand that there's a lot to learn from someone else's mistakes, even moreso if that someone else was an entire country. It's a domino affect. cause and effect. Like compound interest, small decisions add up quick. Ramifications caused by bad decision making can get out of hand if enough baby steps are taken in the wrong direction. We should learn from our history rather than mock it. But then again, as you said best,

Quote :

"keep on believing whatever helps you sleep at night."

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 1:06 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 1:07 AM. Reason : .]

9/24/2013 1:05:32 AM

Hitler actually reduced gun restrictions and increased gun production

but whatever, its still not relevant

9/24/2013 8:34:36 AM

Not for Jews he didnt-

What's relevant is how stupid you are.

9/24/2013 10:24:47 AM

at least i have a correct understanding of history

9/24/2013 10:35:50 AM

Obviously.

9/24/2013 10:36:38 AM

^^^^

Hmm, i didn't know that...

9/24/2013 11:38:12 AM

Good lord, you're going to take his word for it?

dtownral is one of the worst users on this site for painting things with a very broad brush.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:58 AM. Reason : -]

9/24/2013 11:57:39 AM

look, its history and its not particularly shocking.

germany lost world war I. as a consequence of losing, the treaty of versailles killed their gun industry and in 1919 the german government passed a law that all guns and ammunition were to be surrendered. In 1928 germany finally allowed permits to purchase and carry firearms, but it was still heavily restricted. in 1938 permits only applied to handguns and rifles, shotguns, and ammunition were almost entirely unregulated.

the hitler gun confusion was intentionally created by the NRA, specifically by Wayne LaPierre in his 1994 book. He just made it up, and then it became fact. its true that even the less regulated laws still didn't allow jews to have guns, but jews (and other classes) weren't allowed to do all kinds of things.

9/24/2013 12:07:56 PM

Nice try, but you're forgetting something.

9/24/2013 12:16:09 PM

Pretty sure we can all agree that the losers in this thread claiming that they need their guns to resist state tyranny are all full of shit.

9/24/2013 12:36:46 PM

Quote :

"Pretty sure we can all agree that the losers in this thread..."

This is an open discussion. First off, I don't see a winning/losing side. I see you've resorted to slander to try to give yourself some e-cred for your "winning" team. GG

We need guns for self preservation, from whatever threat comes our way. It's called being responsible and independent. Why do you loathe the responsiblity of preserving your own safety? The world is dangerous. Nothing will change that fact.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 7:40 PM. Reason : ,]

9/24/2013 7:40:00 PM

the world is safer now than at almost any other point in history

9/24/2013 7:45:15 PM

^ Where's the proof of that? By world are you realizing what's going on overseas or are you just focused on the US for your world?

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 7:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2013 7:49:57 PM

what metric do you want me to use?

related:
The world is actually more peaceful than ever
In the aftermath of an awful tragedy, it's hard to remember that political violence is in fact diminishing greatly
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/23/the_world_is_actually_safer_than_ever/

Surprisingly enough, the world is a safer place
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Surprisingly-enough-the-world-is-a-safer-place-2324730.php

Contrary to campaign rhetoric, the US is safer than ever – and not because of its massive military
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/clear-and-present-safety

Clear and Present Safety
The United States Is More Secure Than Washington Thinks
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137279/micah-zenko-and-michael-a-cohen/clear-and-present-safety

US crime rate at lowest point in decades. Why America is safer now.
The crime rate for serious crimes, including murder, rape, and assault, has dropped significantly since the early 1990s in part because of changes in technology and policing, experts say.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0109/US-crime-rate-at-lowest-point-in-decades.-Why-America-is-safer-now

etc...

are you worried about the rest of the world because of terrorism? because you are much more likely to die from lightning than terrorism. or a car accident. or a plane crash. or your gun. or heart disease. or hot weather. or a police officer. or almost anything else.


[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 8:16 PM. Reason : unleaded gasoline is contributing more to world safety than you owning a gun]

9/24/2013 8:12:18 PM

I was going to say that we aren't trying to get rid of gasoline....

Then I realized that people are dumb, and are trying to get rid of gas.

9/24/2013 8:21:36 PM

we got rid of leaded gas in most countries, and a lot of new research attributes global crime reductions to the reduction in lead

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 8:26 PM. Reason : because dumb people]

9/24/2013 8:25:14 PM

I see Hiro came in here and really elevated the discourse with some real, provocative, graduate level thought.

9/24/2013 8:52:59 PM

Quote :

"Then I realized that people are dumb smart, and are trying to get rid of save gas."

Fixed it for ya

9/25/2013 1:10:03 AM

Nope, meant it the way I said it.

9/25/2013 2:20:12 AM

I would ask you to elabrate, but don't want to derail this tread. Maybe in the Garage or the gas prices thread

9/25/2013 2:39:01 AM

Quote :

"Two things: gun control absolutely can stop mass shootings, as evidenced in Australia, the UK, and parts of central/South America. Also, while gun violence overall is down, since at least 2006 mass killings (as defined by the FBI) are on the rise and over half of them were committed using weapons that would have been outlawed by the AWB. But hey, keep on believing whatever helps you sleep at night."

So, what I take from this is:
1) OMFG AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!!! Nevermind that the Australia shenanigans have been roundly and routinely debunked. You'll cling to it.
2) A ban means guns magically no longer exist, lol.

9/25/2013 10:35:47 PM

Regarding 2, not magically but over time.

Ban isn't the solution though.

9/26/2013 2:34:07 AM

well the anti's have successfully confused the issue on restaurant carry in HB937.

heard some morons talking about getting drunk and carrying guns.

9/26/2013 12:50:58 PM

surely the fault of the anti's

9/26/2013 12:51:57 PM

there was a lot of confusion there, probably driven by media coverage. it was a good bill.

9/26/2013 1:01:01 PM

Quote :

"Two things: gun control absolutely can stop mass shootings, as evidenced in Australia"

Australia's gun control did nothing to their murder rate ( http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html ), so why would "less mass shootings" be any sort of victory for gun control?

Even if we're to care about mass murder v. spaced murder: New Zealand also had some mass shootings in the mid-90's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramoana_massacre ), but didn't ban semi-automatic weapons, and has had no mass murders since, just like Australia. If there's a better control for Australia's experiment, let me know.

Quote :

"Also, while gun violence overall is down, since at least 2006 mass killings (as defined by the FBI) are on the rise and over half of them were committed using weapons that would have been outlawed by the AWB. But hey, keep on believing whatever helps you sleep at night"

Just because "assault weapons" were used for mass murder, doesn't mean they're a prerequisite for mass murder. The Navy Yard shooter used a pump-action shotgun. The Aurora shooter did most of his killing with a pump-action shotgun. Most guns will do when you're shooting at crods of unarmed people.

9/26/2013 5:30:33 PM

I agree that the US and world continue to get safer. So why then would we need more gun laws?

9/26/2013 11:10:34 PM

that doesn't make any sense at all

[Edited on September 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM. Reason : a few hundred people get shot every day in the US]

9/26/2013 11:12:47 PM

Which is a decrease from previous years..... What part of that confuses you?

9/27/2013 4:28:10 PM

because that stat shows that people shooting people with guns is still a problem in the US?

9/27/2013 4:35:43 PM

^^the part that confuses me is people being okay with a few hundred people being shot every day

9/27/2013 5:10:44 PM

How about the fact that gun laws are becoming less restrictive, and the rate is still declining.
One might infer that strict gun laws don't help.

9/27/2013 5:43:36 PM

that trend is not trending towards zero

but thanks for admitting that gun laws are less restrictive now

9/27/2013 6:32:31 PM

On a state basis, they are.
On a Federal level, they are not.

Regular decreases would be a trend toward zero.....

[Edited on September 27, 2013 at 7:06 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2013 7:05:43 PM

no

[Edited on September 27, 2013 at 8:58 PM. Reason : hint: multivariate]

9/27/2013 8:55:43 PM

Why don't you do an ANACOVA and get back to us....

9/27/2013 10:00:42 PM

gun nuts hate math

9/28/2013 9:36:43 AM

oh my god i'm so afraid to get lunch today tomorrow because someone might be carrying a concealed gun!

[Edited on September 30, 2013 at 12:34 PM. Reason : maybe i will eat it on an athletic field]

9/30/2013 12:28:24 PM

10/8/2013 12:25:19 AM

So are we going to start arming TSA agents, now?

Has that been suggested yet?

Has this been considered?

11/4/2013 4:35:41 PM

LAX requested armed agents, the Feds said "no" before the shooting.

TSA agents are not well trained, are bottom of the barrel, barely more educated than rent-a-cops. They should not have weapons if at all possible. We need to dismantle the TSA screenings in airports even. They are a blight.

[Edited on November 4, 2013 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

11/4/2013 4:38:55 PM

I disagree.

They are an essential tool for national security. They should be armed and trained to neutralize all threats, as they are the first line of defense for preventing people from bringing bottles of water onto an airplane.

11/4/2013 4:41:23 PM

How about police?

11/4/2013 4:41:28 PM

I once had a TSA agent open-hand slap my junk around at SFO with his ring hand before my flight to O'Hare.

It was for the good of the country.

[Edited on November 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM. Reason : ]

11/4/2013 4:43:46 PM

TSA screeners are not LEO's

11/4/2013 4:52:46 PM

But with adequate training, these esteemed professionals can properly identify and eliminate terrorist threats before boarding the plane. They already have enough tools at their disposal to see all traveling Americans naked, and they also get most Americans to remove their belts and shoes. If given access to firearms, they will have a decided advantage against those who wish to do this country harm.

We should simply move TSA agents to the front of all airports, and require that all passengers arrive to the airport sans shoes and belts and pre body scanned so that we may properly preserve our freedoms.

11/4/2013 5:09:01 PM

arming TSA agents is a damn scary idea.

11/4/2013 9:30:21 PM

How is that any different than anyone having a gun?

11/5/2013 8:15:14 AM

you obviously don't interact with the agents very much

11/5/2013 8:34:56 AM

Oh I get it TSA agents can't carry guns but Joe Bob can carry a concealed weapon.

So when some guy starts shooting, Joe Bob would save the day and TSA agents would be worthless bc you think they suck at their jobs.

Nice

11/5/2013 8:42:03 AM