Ok let's be clear here, that was definitely a what the fuck loss. We should be on a four game losing streak right now honestly. Maryland and FSU shitting themselves and us backing into miracle wins doesn't excuse another futile breakdown by TOB in the closing minutes.

Oh yeah and clemson in death valley isn't exactly a gimme. Their defense is every bit as bad as UNC's so I'm sure we'll score on a few possessions before TOB orders us to shut it down again.

10/27/2012 5:09:00 PM

I've always supported TOB against our idiot fans like boobs and face, but today is inexcusable.

our coaching staff neutered our offense as soon as we had that 10 point lead, and the end of game strategy was the worst I've ever witnessed.

10/27/2012 5:18:46 PM

^ spot on

10/27/2012 5:20:11 PM

nailed it

10/27/2012 5:21:16 PM

I'm not sure why the opinions are so different today because he's been doing the same Shit for six years. Everyone knew what was about to happen just look at the game thread.

Because its unc I guess everyone actually cares this time.

10/27/2012 5:22:28 PM

against miami TOB tried to score and threw a pick and people were angry. they had our oline figured out and got to glennon instantly in the 4th qtr. thats not really tob fault. how many times did we get sacked in the 4th qtr?

TOB is not a great coach and never will. he's not even the best coach we could possibly get at nc state but he's our coach right now and he's not doing so bad so we should support him until the season ends as long as we're on a good trajectory.

What will happen in this thread if we win out?

10/27/2012 5:23:01 PM

look on the bright side, at least we didn't get paul johnson back when you people wanted him.

10/27/2012 5:25:18 PM

Probably the same thing. Unless fsu loses we aren't getting to charlotte. We go to another mediocre bowl, we lose glennon, wolff, and amerson. We suck next year, then he probably gets the boot.

10/27/2012 5:25:58 PM

how do we know our next qb sucks?

10/27/2012 5:26:52 PM

Pete Thomas is a good looking QB. Not sure why people are already writing next year off.

10/27/2012 5:29:03 PM

Yes, I'd want to see how the rest of the season ends. Although, even if he wins the rest of the season, it would probably be a good time to resign at the end of it to to get someone who is more aggressive.

10/27/2012 5:29:14 PM

I'm as pissed at the play calling in the last quarter as anyone (given how the game had been going). But the bigger question is why have we had a pretty mediocre/horrible run game all season? We had a few good carries today but mostly relied on glennon to sling it to sustain any drives.

It's our oline play. It's supposed to be one of TOBs hallmarks, and he's got a decent lineup this year that has been "relatively" healthy. Instead we get 2 yard carries and glennon running for his life.

When TOB replaced Amato I thought all we lacked was decent oline play to start competing for the ACC every few years (good players at skill positions, good D throughout, good oline play could help out our mediocre QBs, and end stupid penalties on the line). It just hasn't happened yet.


Unlike most I'm not quite ready to through TOB under the bus yet, but this is the one measure I'm constantly judging and watching for improvement on

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 5:32 PM. Reason : Obviously lots of dropped passes today too, but still too pass heavy/reliant on glennon]

10/27/2012 5:30:57 PM

our players are worse at every position than they were in the amato years. thats just the reality. tob just gets more out of worse players. we are conservative because we play shitty teams all year and its more likely that they will mess up before we mess up. when we mess up, we lose. when we don't mess up, we win. we don't have to go out and beat people every week.

It is frustrating that we never try to score unless we have to score. when we are losing by 2 scores, we always score and when we are up 2 scores, we never score. thats just the downside of tob. i think amato was more of a risk taker with a higher ceiling and we saw that risk make us a bad team instead of a slightly above average like we've been under TOB.

10/27/2012 5:36:10 PM

Yea I assumed that skill player recruitment would remain kinda the same under TOB but oline play/recruitment would pick up and that would take us to the "next level". It's been a little disappointing on both ends

10/27/2012 5:40:48 PM

E Man is such an obvious troll. Only fitting that face came out too.

However, why do you play for overtime? Our coach lacks an actual sack

10/27/2012 5:41:43 PM

This was a disappointing loss, but I don't think it warrants the "Fire TOB" talk. I don't personally like the conservative play calling and punting with 18 seconds left, but it is pretty common at all levels of the game. Had we fumbled the ball or thrown a pick and allowed them to kick an easy FG, you all would be cursing the unnecessarily aggressive play calling. And how was the punt coverage supposed to expect our shitty punter would juice a 55 yard bomb with no hang time after struggling to break 40 all day? It was just a fluke.

Assuming they don't score on that punt, we take it to overtime and Glennon gets us the win. Everyone forgets the play calling and life moves on. Sun rise, sun set.

10/27/2012 5:54:58 PM

tom obrien is such a goddamn pussy. you would think a marine would have some balls.


^^yep, not to mention the end of the first half when he played for halftime.

Quote :

" I don't personally like the conservative play calling and punting with 18 seconds left, but it is pretty common at all levels of the game. "

"lots of coaches game plan like dumb cowards and try to keep from getting blasted in the media rather than win the game, therefore it is ok"

Quote :

"Had we fumbled the ball or thrown a pick and allowed them to kick an easy FG, you all would be cursing the unnecessarily aggressive play calling. "

absolutely not. you play to win the game. period.

not to mention when we started trying to run the clock, ran it 3 times for a first, then threw 3 incomplete passes. if you are going to do something, do it, dont give up on it.

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 6:06 PM. Reason : a]

10/27/2012 5:55:23 PM

^^ lol feel free to speculate

10/27/2012 6:03:17 PM

...how is kicking the ball straight to a RB that's been bulldozing your D and shedding tackles all day conservative play?



It's fucking moronic. We didn't lose just because of "conservative play." We lost because of one of the single most vapid, brainless, not-paying-attention, well-out-of-depths play calls in football this year.

10/27/2012 6:04:32 PM

Also to clear the air, me calling for a new coach all this time was not intended to be a "i told you so"

I just have always felt that for out fanbase and boosters,etc that we deserve better

10/27/2012 6:07:25 PM

Quote :

"North Carolina State at 6:47 NCST UNC 1st and 10 at NCST 26 Shadrach Thornton rush for 5 yards to the NCSt 31. 35 32 2nd and 5 at NCST 31 Shadrach Thornton rush for 4 yards to the NCSt 35. 3rd and 1 at NCST 35 Shadrach Thornton rush for 2 yards to the NCSt 37 for a 1ST down. 1st and 10 at NCST 37 Mike Glennon pass incomplete to Mario Carter. 2nd and 10 at NCST 37 Mike Glennon pass incomplete to Bryan Underwood. 3rd and 10 at NCST 37 Mike Glennon pass incomplete to Bryan Underwood."

also, he should have called a timeout with two minutes left when they were about to score.

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 6:10 PM. Reason : a]

10/27/2012 6:09:24 PM

Goes for the win @ Miami Glennon throws pick we lose. TOB's fault.

Goes for OT @ UNC Bernard returns punt for TD we lose. TOB's fault.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. TOB is safe as can be. We are still looking at 8-4 and a decent bowl.

10/27/2012 6:27:17 PM

That one hurt. But Roll Damn TOB. Always and forever.

10/27/2012 6:32:52 PM

That one hurt. But Roll Damn TOB. Always and forever.

10/27/2012 6:32:52 PM

Quote :

"Goes for the win @ Miami Glennon throws pick we lose. TOB's fault."

maybe there are people that say that, but i 100% blame amerson for that loss, not TOB. I want to go for the win in that situation every time. And even today, TOB's result is very unusual and unlucky, he just happened to get unlucky being aggressive and unlucky being conservative. The diff is that we had every reason to be aggressive against Miami and UNC. Glennon was on fire today and that day. Whereas in both cases our D had also struggled to stop the opposition.

I have a ton of faith in Glennon, put the ball in his hands to win the game and i'm happy.

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 6:36 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 6:38 PM. Reason : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE]

10/27/2012 6:36:32 PM

this past week i've been watching a lot of highlight reels on youtube and something that really stood out was that there would be a highlight of a stop to seemingly secure the game with 5 minutes left... then another one with 3 minutes left. then another one with 40 seconds left. this happened over and over.

then we did it again at halftime. when we need to just stay on the field and ride out a game we give the ball back every fucking time. it's just terrible clock management, and this game came down to the same thing. we had a good effort from the team today (dropped balls aside) and glennon played great. not being ready for trick plays and terrible clock management lost this game.

10/27/2012 7:26:10 PM

Hoping TOB is watching this Arizona game. UAs punter just kicked a perfect late game punt

10/27/2012 7:39:19 PM

[quote]Damned if you do, damned if you don't. TOB is safe as can be. We are still looking at 8-4 and a decent bowl.[quote]

That makes one of us that feel that way.

10/27/2012 8:13:47 PM

Quote :

".how is kicking the ball straight to a RB that's been bulldozing your D and shedding tackles all day conservative play? It's fucking moronic. We didn't lose just because of "conservative play." We lost because of one of the single most vapid, brainless, not-paying-attention, well-out-of-depths play calls in football this year."

[Edited on October 27, 2012 at 8:48 PM. Reason : fack]

10/27/2012 8:47:04 PM

What an asshole. I hope people make fun of his children

10/28/2012 2:17:13 AM

^You can dislike the coach all you want, but not the person.

I pity anyone that deals with you in real life.

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 2:52 PM. Reason : It's so cool to be an internet badass]

10/28/2012 2:35:08 PM

pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

i seem to remember our shit fans giving Sendek's kids a hard time at school.

10/28/2012 2:39:27 PM

this is the best team tob will have. next year we'll have a new qb, a green offensive line, and a defense full of new players. it's not going to get any better than this. and the best we're likely to do is a four loss season, and that's assuming we don't shit the bed against wake or bc.

either way i have faith in debbie yow. we were told we can't expect to compete with dook and unc, and a year and a half after debbie picks her basketball coach, we're preseason number 6, favorites to win the acc, and have the preseason acc roy and poy.

i am not so delusional that i believe we should be competing for national titles, but it's entirely realistic to expect to compete for the division and shoot for the orange bowl every year. there is absolutely no way tob coaches beyond his current contract if he doesn't get fired, "resign," or "retire" first. and once debbie gets the coach of her choosing, we'll get to where we should be.

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ]

10/28/2012 2:42:55 PM

Quote :

" there is absolutely no way tob coaches beyond his current contract"

This is probably true. And the program will be far better off than it was when he got here. It was in complete shambles when he arrived. Now it's not.

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 3:04 PM. Reason : ]

10/28/2012 2:45:36 PM

^ Yes. That's a great point that the pro-TOB crowd likes to ignore. This roster this year is the best its going to get. The cupboard is very bare for next season and the way TOB recruits, it will at least be 2 years before we have a team capable of contending for the division.

The way I see it, he will either get canned this year or next. Looking at the roster for next season you can't think we have a team with the talent to compete for the division.

Next year is likely a throw away year anyway. Might as well start that off with a new staff.

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 2:49 PM. Reason : imo]

10/28/2012 2:48:39 PM

Some of you either don't follow recruiting or our roster that well.

We have a good QB redshirting this year who put up good numbers at Colorado State. There is a reason Brosius peaced out. He knew Thomas was going to start.

Quote :

"and a defense full of new players."

What? We lose Wolff, Bishop, Lucas, and Brian Slay. Maybe Amerson. The majority of the front 7 is back. We have some good looking players in McGill, Teal, Norman, and Ferguson.

Plus the offense will have 2 more years of Creecy, 3 more of Thornton, Winkles is back, Asa Watson back at TE, and the senior Oline haven't exactly been star players.

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM. Reason : We will be fine]

10/28/2012 2:55:14 PM

^ Typically players transfer for a reason. Maybe its Harrison Beck on my mind but I'm not expecting much out of that QB.

10/28/2012 2:59:53 PM

Coaching changes do that. Sort of like Danny O'Brien. The staff wanted him out of high school so I don't think he will be too awful (hopefully).

10/28/2012 3:23:32 PM

^^^haha. "what??!! we're losing probably the entire secondary from a team that just gave up 35 to unc. how is that a defense full of new players?????" yeah we're solid next year on defense, especially with archer back to continue calling his vanilla schemes.

10/28/2012 4:28:15 PM

Quote :

"Typically players transfer for a reason. Maybe its Harrison Beck on my mind but I'm not expecting much out of that QB."

Kid was getting pummeled at Colorado State. I want to say the coach left as well, but I could be wrong.

I feel ya on transfers...but this is a good QB.

10/28/2012 4:43:52 PM

i'm admittedly not super-passionate about sports, but i am a big wolfpack fan. i just can't bring myself to hate TOB as much as some do in this forum. with the exception of the rivers years, our team has been better than i can ever really remember with him as the head coach. he's owned carolina, gotten us winning seasons, and won bowl games.

i don't think he belongs in the coaching hall of fame, and certainly isn't going to take our program to the next level...but if he's as close to retirement as people seem to think he is, i wouldn't mind letting him ride it out.

10/28/2012 4:47:10 PM

Thomas was at a very poor program but he put up mediocre stats. Typically you can tell when a good QB is playing on a bad team - just look at Wilson's first couple years here where he still had success.

There aren't a lot of examples of a guy transferring from a bad non-BCS school to a middle of the road BCS school. Closest example I can find is this guy:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/384118/zach-maynard

Basically he was average at Buffalo and average at Cal. I wouldn't expect much different from Thomas here.

The only upside is Bible/TOB usually do a pretty good job at QB but I think we're looking at a downgrade from Wilson and Glennon. This guy isn't going to suck but I don't expect he'll be winning us games by putting us on our shoulders.

Which sadly, is what we'd need to be worth a shit the next two years

10/28/2012 5:24:17 PM

The bottom like is that we are going to suck hard next season. Anyone that doesn't see that is clearly delusional.

Other than dline our entire roster is sub par.

We've been spoiled by 9 years of elite QB play. It's like some of you have never seen how bad teams are with bad qbs

10/28/2012 8:02:50 PM

TOB is going to leave with the team not any better (or possibly worse) than when he got here

[Edited on October 28, 2012 at 8:24 PM. Reason : Y]

10/28/2012 8:11:49 PM

Considering the way RW and glennon salvaged those crappy teams we had you'd think people would understand how important QB becomes when the rest of your team sucks

10/28/2012 8:14:17 PM

he should be fired immediately for his utter lack of coaching in the 4th quarter. that was a coaching atrocity. in no way should we have lost that game Saturday. not after how dominant we were passing the ball.

ps: he's a coward.

[Edited on October 29, 2012 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

10/29/2012 8:18:23 AM

You can argue conservative or balls to the wall all day, and it's easy to do on Monday, but whichever direction you take it in that final minute, you've got to do it smart. The most glaring lack of competency from TOB was keeping the punt in bounds and giving their best player a chance to bring it back. I don't think conservative was the right approach considering Glennon's hot hand, but I don't really consider that the biggest issue with the coaching. The punt was just stupid as shit.

10/29/2012 8:25:13 AM

Quote :

"9 years of elite QB play"

10/29/2012 8:27:11 AM

TOB's decisions were bad again on Saturday, but ultimately if we are going to blame his ass for everything, we also have to give him credit for having assembled a team that was in position to potentially win the Atlantic Division.

TOB is not getting fired at the end of this season. Maybe after next year if we suck, which pretty much most people on here have concluded, TOB will get the boot, but speculating on new coaches is stupid at this point. We should still win 8-9 games this year and no coach at NC State is getting fired after an 8-9 win season.

10/29/2012 9:32:41 AM

weve been in that potential situation for years

10/29/2012 9:35:58 AM