Quote :

"what's the deal with range qualification for CCW? If you do not own a handgun prior to taking the class do you have to find one to qualify with or do they have them at the range for you? Just wondering as i'd like to have CCW before i purchase, though it's not a big deal. But i only have a .32 right now and it's a pain, though i could qualify with it if i had to."

depends on where you take it really. if you take it at a range (such as PDHSC) they'll probably let you rent one. If you take it from a private instructor, you'll need to bring one most likely (some do have pistols you can use if you purchase ammo from them; sometimes other people in the class will let you use theirs... assuming they have enough ammo and they may charge for it). Best options are to:

1.) contact the instructor for arrangements
2.) get a purchase permit and either buy one or borrow one (temporarily purchase) one from a friend.

[Edited on December 18, 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/18/2009 12:17:17 PM

You can use steel shot in a fixed choke barrel.

If I had to pick I'd get the Wingmaster and buy another barrel. Mossberg makes cheap replacement barrels for 870s. Just understand that you still shouldn't shoot 3" shells out of the wingmaster even if you buy a 2.75/3" chambered barrel.
The 870 will have more parts available if you want to add anything in the future.

I'd pass on the weatherby due to parts.

I'd skip the Mossberg unless you were serious in waterfowl or turkey.
It's heavy, not as smooth, and just plain lacks soul. It's a tool for throwing shittons of lead and that's it.
2.75 & 3" shells typically don't pattern well from 3.5" chambers.
Also, the 835 is overbored. It has the same bore diameter as a 10 ga and you won't be able to shoot slugs through it unless you get a replacement barrels that's bored like a normal 12ga.
Being overbored is good sometimes (if you're shooting 3.5"). I have two friends that have them and both 835s pattern just as well as other shotgun but they do it with a more open choke. In other words, an 835 with a mod choke will shoot a pattern around as good as another gun with a full choke. Bigger bore=shorter shot column=less deformation of shot=better patterns.

If you get a fixed choke barrel you can have it fitted for cheap. it cost me $50 for labor to get my mossberg reamed out for Tru-Choke thin wall tubes.

Quote :

"what's the deal with range qualification for CCW? If you do not own a handgun prior to taking the class do you have to find one to qualify with or do they have them at the range for you? Just wondering as i'd like to have CCW before i purchase, though it's not a big deal. But i only have a .32 right now and it's a pain, though i could qualify with it if i had to."

You can borrow a gun from a friend or something. Some instructors will bring guns for people to use and just charge them for the ammo. Call ahead and ask.

12/18/2009 12:23:33 PM

I took my class with Rush, he had some pistols available during the test for people that didn't yet own one

12/18/2009 2:43:20 PM

Quote :

"I'd pass on the weatherby due to parts."

Yep, I drew the same conclusion when I read up a little about what it was.

Quote :

"I'd skip the Mossberg unless you were serious in waterfowl or turkey. It's heavy, not as smooth, and just plain lacks soul. It's a tool for throwing shittons of lead and that's it."

yeah, I want a shotgun like that, but I want it with a synthetic (likely camouflaged) stock--pure utility. I want it in addition to something like a Wingmaster, though.

Quote :

"If you get a fixed choke barrel you can have it fitted for cheap. it cost me $50 for labor to get my mossberg reamed out for Tru-Choke thin wall tubes. "

Wait, you're saying that I can buy that Wingmaster, then get the barrel reamed and threaded to use screw-in chokes for $50, then just have to actually buy the chokes? (prob what, $20-30 each?)

Quote :

"If I had to pick I'd get the Wingmaster and buy another barrel. Mossberg makes cheap replacement barrels for 870s."

I can't imagine that even the Mossberg replacement barrels are cheap enough that doing it that way would really be that attractive of an option.

12/19/2009 1:42:44 AM

I just looked around. Apparently the Mossberg 870 barrels are only short special purpose barrels, so that idea is out. The mossberg barrels were about $100 cheaper than Rem.

Quote :

"Wait, you're saying that I can buy that Wingmaster, then get the barrel reamed and threaded to use screw-in chokes for $50, then just have to actually buy the chokes? (prob what, $20-30 each?)"

Yes.
And if you get cheap chokes it's more like $14 each.

The range of prices for tapping barrels is huge; from $50 to 400.
I found this on another forum and you should definitely look into it.
http://shootersforum.com/showpost.htm?s=5b0c9aa167380f45f93cb5159fbad66a&p=399692&postcount=5
$35 for labor and the dude's probably more experienced than the smith I used.

12/19/2009 11:15:17 AM

yep. and like i said, you could send the barrel to Carlson's and have it done and you get 3 chokes in the package.

Carlson's is probably one of the most notable barrel fitters and choke makers.

[Edited on December 19, 2009 at 1:46 PM. Reason : ~$180]

12/19/2009 1:46:03 PM

Does anyone else listen to this podcast?

http://armedamericanradio.org/

12/21/2009 1:36:20 PM

I've had a couple PMs inquiring about my next concealed carry class so I thought I would post some info here. I will be teaching a class again on Saturday, January 9th from 9am to about 7pm with a few breaks scattered in there. The cost is $60, loaner guns will be $10, and I also have ammo available for purchase in most popular calibers for anyone that needs it. I have 3 spots left open so if you're interested or have any additional questions, please send me a PM.

[Edited on December 22, 2009 at 9:17 AM. Reason : because I can]

12/22/2009 9:17:22 AM

^PM sent

12/22/2009 9:57:21 AM

i hate to keep bringing up CCW and permit questions but i'm just trying to figure out best course of action.

If I pass a CCW course and have my CCW permit before i ever purchase a new handgun do i still have to have a "purchase permit" or will the CCW permit act as both?

just wondering as a CCW class has opened up down here the first of january and i'm interested in taking it.

12/22/2009 10:30:35 AM

^if you have your CHP, no purchase permit is needed, ever.

[Edited on December 22, 2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason : assuming you're in NC here... other states may be different]

12/22/2009 10:37:40 AM

yeah i'm in NC.

what does the range qualification consist of?

12/22/2009 10:57:22 AM

10 shots each at 3, 5, and 7 yards.
It's so stupidly easy you've have to be 100% blind to fail.
I'm pretty sure I could do it if you let me see the target then you blindfolded me.

12/22/2009 11:03:08 AM

lolz. awesome.

12/22/2009 11:06:30 AM

It's really more of a handling proficency test than a marksmanship test, as you will have to know how to load, fire, change magazines, repeat, etc. in order to do the course of fire, which is timed. Like he said, you can pass so long as you can point the gun in front of you and make the shots in a remotely reasonable amount of time.

12/22/2009 12:24:29 PM

Quote :

"Does anyone else listen to this podcast? http://armedamericanradio.org/"

I do now.

12/22/2009 1:40:10 PM

someone told me that if you're caught "carrying somewhere that it's illegal to carry" and you have a CHP, the charge will be a felony whereas it would be a misdemeanor if you did not have your CHP. can someone verify/elaborate/explain?

12/22/2009 2:36:24 PM

Quote :

"It's really more of a handling proficency test than a marksmanship test, as you will have to know how to load, fire, change magazines, repeat, etc. in order to do the course of fire, which is timed. Like he said, you can pass so long as you can point the gun in front of you and make the shots in a remotely reasonable amount of time."

does the time change based on what you are carrying? As i may carry a .32 revolver instead of a semiauto.


also, do you have to provide proof of ownership for the handgun you bring or can i borrow one from my brother? If so, he's got a few subcompacts i'd choose over the .32

12/22/2009 2:42:22 PM

Our CFO at my company has a Glock 40 Model 23 that he wants $400 for. Gun is in fantastic shape, and he thinks he's probably put maybe 20 rounds since hes had it.

I'm fairly new to gun ownership. Will be taking a class soon to get the in's and outs, and I've been around guns before growing up, so I'm responsible enough to know not to play around.

Any thoughts on the price? Worth it as a beginner?

12/22/2009 3:24:25 PM

i would want something cheaper to shoot to get comfortable with

12/22/2009 3:32:22 PM

Great price if it's in decent shape.

However, the 40S&W can be a bitch to learn on.
It has more recoil than a 45ACP.
If you think you can handle it then get it.
If you don't think you can handle it then get it anyway because the price is good. Then go get a 22 or 9mm to learn with (recoil is low and ammo is cheap).

12/22/2009 3:33:17 PM

^^^^I wouldn't think any instructors would change the time based on the type of gun...at least it's not something I would do. We basically get everyone to line up in front of their targets and have everyone shoot at the same time (based on the size of the range). It wouldn't make sense to have people shoot separately. As was stated earlier, the test is basically to test your ability to operate and shoot a gun...not to test you depending on the type of gun you are shooting.

It is very common for people to use borrowed guns during the class. A lot of people take the class even though they don't even own a gun. You can check with the instructor first but I doubt they would require ownership.

^^^^^Check your PMs

You can both PM me if you have any additional questions about the concealed carry courses/laws.

Oh, and my 1/9 class is now full. The next one will be on 2/13 if anyone is interested.

[Edited on December 22, 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason : 123]

12/22/2009 3:53:19 PM

Thanks Fumbler. Will check it out over the Christmas break at a range. Judging by the pricing, its pretty fair, and a deal considering I wouldnt have to go through a broker or anything.

12/22/2009 4:21:26 PM

^You don't need a broker or FFL, but you do need to give him a handgun permit or proof of CCP.

For the CCP, you don't need any proof of ownership of a gun.

12/23/2009 4:46:02 PM

12/23/2009 4:58:54 PM

lol

12/23/2009 8:06:04 PM

^^hahaha - I've had this happen (I didn't have a vest on, but I did have my shirt tucked in)

[Edited on December 23, 2009 at 8:08 PM. Reason : ^]

12/23/2009 8:08:22 PM

I've had them go between my toes when shooting in sandals. I recommend not shooting in sandals.


I was at PDHSC one day, and they were talking about how this girl with big boobage and a low-cut top came in and rented the full-auto MP5...she went into the range and proceeded to cut loose with a lengthy burst, only to have a stream of hot brass go down her shirt.

12/23/2009 10:26:08 PM

I checked out pocket pistols at the store the other day...the Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP, SIG 238, and Taurus TCP. The Kel-Tec looks like it was built in a highschool shop class. Without shooting it, I liked the Taurus, though...might have to look into picking one up.

12/23/2009 11:02:24 PM

i've never seen the taurus, but I have seen and fired the Keltec and the LCP- both of which were very similar, but a little hard for me to hold on to (great pocket guns though). I love Taurus (I've never had to deal with their customer service which seems to be the only complaint of Taurus owners), so I would like to check this out if you do get it


k- I just checked out the TCP online and it looks good. I especially like the rubber grips they put on there, which is exactly why I bought my 24/7. I imagine that would help give me some more control (in terms of holding on to the little guy)


There is one thing that I like about the keltec though, in that I think you can buy conversion kits so that you can shoot various calibers with the same gun

[Edited on December 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM. Reason : envuiew]

12/24/2009 10:27:46 AM

^ you can only do conversions with the P11 and then I *think* you have to have an older model and can only go between 9mm & .40 but I'm definitely not positive on that. I've never seen or heard of a P3AT or P32 having any kind of conversion kit available.

12/24/2009 2:54:23 PM

My experience with the SKS throwing brass is that one can never know where it will go. I've had cases come down on my head all the way to being thrown wide right while firing left-handed. I've had a few unfortunate rounds find themselves down the back of my shirt.

12/24/2009 3:25:15 PM

I'm looking at the Taurus PT 145 (10 round .45 ACP) as a concealed carry weapon. It's cheap as dirt, fits me well, has decent capacity and is quite concealable. My only concern is reliability.

Online, the only negatives on it I've seen are some accounts of the frame cracking (earlier models - newer generations don't have this complaint), and some say it's picky on ammo.

Any of y'all have firsthand experience?

12/24/2009 5:52:53 PM

i'll always respect Kel-Tec

they always seem to work

12/24/2009 6:29:34 PM

Quote :

"The Kel-Tec looks like it was built in a highschool shop class."

They do, but they reliably go bang. Kahrs are good to but $$ compared to the Kel-Tec

12/25/2009 9:19:58 AM

picked up my brother's XD 9mm subcompact today for my ccw class. woop!

12/25/2009 4:37:32 PM

^are you gonna be at rush's ccw class on the 9th? me and my fiance will be there.

12/25/2009 7:04:55 PM

IF you have a P11, ANY model, you can find the older P40 slide kits, to convert it with a new slide to shoot 40 SW, add a conversion barrel and you have a .357 sig. Just be aware, they have there little quirks, and are VERY limp wrist sensitive, as are most baby guns.

12/26/2009 12:11:55 AM

^^I'll be there.

12/26/2009 11:05:51 AM

Quote :

"picked up my brother's XD 9mm subcompact today for my ccw class. woop!"

I don't know if you've ever fired it before, but if not, don't worry- that is one of the most tame subcompacts I've ever fired (only one that was better IMO was the S&W MP subcompact)


when is your class? the shooting stuff is super easy... and are you taking a big class or a little class (are there gonna be 30 people or 3 people)?

12/26/2009 11:35:47 AM

Got a Surefire x300 for my g22. Holler

12/26/2009 3:58:21 PM

You carry the Glock or just keep it for home defense? I could imagine that it is quite hard to find a holster for a lighted pistol.

12/26/2009 5:06:42 PM

Quote :

"^are you gonna be at rush's ccw class on the 9th? me and my fiance will be there."

nope, i'm taking it here in concord through a group called Practical Arms.

Quote :

"when is your class? the shooting stuff is super easy... and are you taking a big class or a little class (are there gonna be 30 people or 3 people)?"

I actually haven't fired the XD so i'm looking forward to it. And the class is on the 16th. I'm not sure how big the class will be. Its taught at the Bass Pro Shops, they have instructional classrooms on the top level. I've taken a few other misc. classes there and the rooms can fit about 20. So i'd imagine no more than that.

12/26/2009 6:17:33 PM

Every Kel-Tec P3AT I've fired, malfunctioned at least once every 10 rounds or so. With FMJ ammo. I now have an LCP and it's been flawless with everything I've fed it.

Maybe the Kel-Tecs have improved over the last year or so, but if they haven't, then the Ruger is a much more trustworthy weapon.

12/28/2009 11:54:15 AM

I dont care for the Kel-Tecs at all, they feel cheap, and I dont like the way they shoot.

I really like the TCP. I dont own one, but have shot one.

12/28/2009 1:07:49 PM

they are cheap

[Edited on December 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM. Reason : my mom has a .32 kel-tec and it's ok imo. so small i can't get a grip on it, though]

12/28/2009 1:11:23 PM

I have a P3AT and LCP and both haven't had any problems iin 200+ rounds each.

Kel-Tecs are a lil crude which can lead to malfunctions. They either need a break in period or need to be smoothed up internally.

The one and only thing better about the P3AT is it's grip. It's much rougher than the LCP leading to a better gripping surface.

12/28/2009 1:17:46 PM

Ds97Zm what sort of issues did the P3At have that you had shot? failure to go into battery? Weak strikes? failure to feed? As EVERY gun has some known issues that some have and others do not, and most of them have a permanent fix. You can fluff n buff a KelTec and have it cycle smooth as glass. However, its a lower priced gun, and out of the box, the best thing you can do is either break in it and clean it up yourself, or mail it back and the factory will touch it up and tweak it in for you at no charge.

12/28/2009 1:41:51 PM

^ my old Hi-Point was a lower-priced gun as well. Actually, it was half the price of my P3AT. It actually worked out of the box for around 900 rounds before I sold it to someone else. My P3AT made it through an entire mag.... ONCE. That's with a fluff 'n buff and whatever the factory did.

KT's aren't "lower priced". They're cheap, period. While some of their models are pretty good, they would have been out of business a long time ago if they only produced the P3AT. Ruger has proven that the formula can be approved by leaps & bounds without a large increase in cost so why hasn't KT done it yet? Further, why do KT owners feel that it's okay to have a gun that has a well known history of being.... flaky. Before I sold mine, I had people on KTOG telling me not to worry about it that KT would get it right and how theirs was perfect after they got it back from the THIRD trip to the manufacturer. I just don't get it.

12/28/2009 9:09:30 PM

I know i'm opening up a whole can of worms here, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the benefits/disadvantages of pocket carry vs. inside the waist band (whatever you call it).

I'm not a really big guy (5'10, 170lbs) and will likely be dropping down to about 160 in the next 2 months, so what do you guys recommend? In the winter I'll be wearing jackets a lot, so I dont have to worry about profiling. But in the summer/warmer months?

[Edited on December 29, 2009 at 9:45 AM. Reason : .]

12/29/2009 9:44:31 AM